The Intersection with Michael Popok Full Episode - 11/11/2025

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2:28Michael Popok:We celebrate veterans on Veterans Day, but not Donald Trump and his administration. On one hand, he's running to the United States Supreme Court for permission to starve Americans, including veterans all below the poverty line in red states and in blue states, but mainly in red states. He thinks that he's getting political wind at his back for doing that, that most inhumane of things. See, we like our presidents to have a heart. And heartless presidents are soon shown the door. At the same time, he's abusing veterans who, along with seniors and children and babies and the disabled below the poverty line, count on that average of$350 a month to pay for food.

3:18Michael Popok:He runs to the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals. and he demands to be able to abuse and physically assault and beat veterans, clergy, members of the media, and First Amendment protesters. He's trying to get out from under a new federal order, which just makes federal forces comply with the Constitution and not use unreasonable force. Literally an order that says, don't use your car to hit protesters and journalists and clergy and veterans who are on the streets protesting against the lawlessness of the Trump administration. Don't fire rubber bullets at them. Don't hit them with pepper ball and tear gas.

4:01Michael Popok:Don't tackle them from behind. And the Trump administration's like, we don't like that. We want the right to do all of those things. Let's run to the Seventh Circuit. So we're going to talk about what's going on at the United States Supreme Court with the SNAP program as the government may or may not open. I'm not so sure the government is opening in the next 24 to 48 hours. Hakeem Jeffries and the House are up in arms against the senators like Chuck Schumer, who have betrayed the cause. The fight here was to keep the government closed unless Donald Trump finally capitulated and agreed to lower insurance payments by making sure that Obamacare, an Affordable Care Act, was affordable with tax credits so that your health care coverage didn't double and triple.

4:58Michael Popok:So fighting for the middle class, the working poor of America, focused on the kitchen table politics that Tuesday night told us the Democrats are right to focus on, whether in New York by way of a progressive social Democrat or in New Jersey or Virginia by way of a set of moderates, all focused, laser focused on the economy. It's the economy, stupid. And Donald Trump, of course, not doing any of those things. So I'm not sure the government is reopening that fast. either way we need the supreme court to rule by the time uh we're together here while i'm while i'm with you we could be getting a supreme court ruling i'm gonna have to update it probably on legal af sub stack live it's gonna could come in late tonight the supreme court's known for its 1 a.m orders tariffs and donald trump are back in the news mainly because donald trump finally woke up and figured out that his lawyer got his ass handed to him at the United States Supreme Court.

6:02I'm talking about the Solicitor General John Sauer in arguing that tariffs weren't revenue

6:08Michael Popok:producing and therefore were in taxes and therefore were something that a president can do under his foreign affairs and Article II powers, which led to a lot of head scratching by Trump appointees like Amy Coney Barrett and the Chief Justice John Roberts and even Gorsuch, who all said, This looks like revenue producing policy to me. And that looks like a tariff, a tariff as a tax and a tax has to be passed by two chambers of Congress and and signed by a president. So there was a 12.37 a.m. freakout session by Donald Trump. We'll cover here now that I have you on the edge of your seat. And touch on the pardons.

6:55Michael Popok:I'm not talking about the ones, the crazy ones, like people convicted of fraud who have been let go. People have cheated in athletic races that have been pardoned. Daryl Strawberry of the New York Mets pardoned. talking about the 77 people who participated in the attempted overthrow of democracy, fraudulently sending in fake elector certificates in order to jam up and gum up the works of a peaceful transfer. And the lawyers that supported Donald Trump, many of which were indicted on state level, they've now been cleared of federal crimes with a pardon. I'll talk to you about why I think that was done.

7:34And we'll talk about this new reporting coming out of the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post, no surprise. Once again, Donald Trump has purged a cabinet-level position and an administrative-level position of its watchdogs, of its ethicist, chief ethics officer, gone, chief legal officer, general counsel, gone, chief inspector general, gone of Freddie May and

8:02Michael Popok:Fannie Mac when they turned around as insiders, as whistleblowers, probing Bill Pulte and how he got his hands on all that private financial information that he sliced and diced and edited and misrepresented to the American people to try to publicly shame Adam Schiff, a senator, New York Attorney General Tish James, and a member of the Board of Governors of the Federal reserve about mortgage fraud? How did he get his hands on it? He should not have been able to slice and dice and edit and mischaracterize private financial documents. And that's what those people were looking at, and they've been fired.

8:43I want to talk about that as well. We're here on The Intersection. I do the show once a week on Tuesday nights. Yes, the brothers finally gave me a show. And I really appreciate you all being here. It's It's done better than even my wildest imaginations. Several hundred thousand people a week listen to it, watch it, and help support all that I do on Legal AF. I do 40 videos a week at the intersection of law and politics on Midas and on Legal AF. I curate the Legal AF YouTube channel, which has a dozen contributors. We do 10 or more videos a day. I'm on a few podcasts. Legal AF, you might have heard of, the intersection, of course.

9:23but without your fervent support and the vibrancy of this community, the support of this community, we'd be nothing without you. And so I do appreciate each and every one of you. Tune in here. Help us continue to grow what we're doing here. Let people know about the audio version of The Intersection. You can pick it up there and listen to it at your leisure. And of course, right here on YouTube, welcome to the people that are here with us on Veterans Day, Tuesday night. All right, let's jump into it. We've got, let me update you on everything related to SNAP, what used to be called food stamps.

10:00It's the anti-hunger program. One in eight Americans, 42 million Americans, 16 million children. Just think of those numbers in the most successful economic country in the world that we have one in eight who are below the poverty line and need federal assistance just to have the dignity of being able to know where their next meal is coming from. Food security, it's called. And a lot of fast-moving parts here. It is now up at the United States Supreme Court. The First Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the order of Judge McConnell related to ordering that the full$8 billion in November payments were rapidly moving to Thanksgiving and beyond, but that the full$8 billion be paid.

10:47Trump administration paid$5 billion then tried to claw it back over the weekend with conflicting memos. And then on top of that, some states got the full$5 billion, you know, their portion of it out. Some states, a lot of red states didn't.

11:02Michael Popok:And now we're hearing, because I just interviewed Rob Bonta, the Attorney General of California, that some merchants aren't even accepting fully funded cards that have the benefit on it for fear that they're committing a crime. Which means human beings are worrying about how to feed themselves and those in their family who are the most disadvantaged Americans, most fragile population in America. Donald Trump doesn't care about that. He's made them cheap political pawns in the shutdown showdown. Yeah. And a lot of them are his own voters. Talk about people voting against their interests. And I will remind Donald Trump and the Trump administration, they may be poor, they may be below the poverty line, but they are Americans and they vote.

11:51Michael Popok:And so the First Circuit made its ruling. Then after the First Circuit or on the same day, the First Circuit supported with a scathing decision against the Trump administration saying, pay the$8 billion. You've got the way to do it. You've got the means to do it. supporting Judge McConnell, then Judge Talwani in Massachusetts in a companion case brought by the 23 attorneys general. She entered a temporary restraining order blocking, until she has a hearing, blocking her, the weekend attempts to claw back the$5 billion and now has entered the temporary restraining order related to that. Now we move to the United States Supreme Court.

12:28Ketanji Brown Jackson found a way to box Trump in. She gave the First Circuit less than two days to make their decision. They made the decision against the Trump administration. She then was about to lift her stay.

12:44Michael Popok:She has now full briefing up at the United States Supreme Court about whether there's going to be a stay now for the duration of an appeal. and of course the states and others are opposing it we're going to get a ruling are are there five votes in the next 24 hours to deny americans that which they should be entitled to which is food security and dignity and is the supreme court so heartless and so callous that they would cut off at holiday time, the ability for families just to survive and make ends meet? Are there five votes for that? I'm looking at you, Amy Coney Barrett, John Roberts, and Gorsuch, because this is the time for you to stand up for the most underprivileged group in American society and protect them the way only a Supreme Court can.

13:46And while I know Ketanji Brown-Jackson will issue a scathing dissent, I don't want a scathing dissent. I want a five to four, six to three, eight to one, whatever it's going to be decision that makes sure these people get the money they're entitled to. Could the government reopen in the next three days? Maybe. I mean, there's a lot of fighting going on. I'm not sure Chuck Schumer survives. I'm not sure he should survive. It's the second time he capitulated. I didn't like what happened with the big, beautiful bill, that bullshit bill. And that was Democrats bending over, including Chuck Schumer.

14:22They did it again. You know, at some point, the Democratic Party has to be heard. I thought Tuesday night sent the message. I don't think Chuck Schumer and the old guard got the message.

14:33Michael Popok:You know, whether it's a progressive ideal or a moderate ideal, but we have to get back to the basics of what it means to be in the democratic party and what it means to oppose the trump administration so i'm not sure when it's going to reopen so we're going to have to count on for the people to get the other 40 of what they're entitled to in november and maybe push into december um we're going to have to rely now on the supreme court in the next 24 to 48 hours as it comes out even if it comes out while i'm on the air or tonight i'll i assure you, come over to Legal AF, the YouTube channel and Legal AF Substack Live.

15:12I'll do a live to report on it there. That's one of the benefits of becoming a full-fledged member of the Legal AF community as well, along with being here on the intersection. I want to talk about Judge Ellis and the bravery of Judge Ellis and the Seventh Circuit next. So it's not enough for Donald Trump to starve the American people and ask for permission to do it from the Supreme Court, who would be complicit in it if they did agree. It's not enough, and a large, nice percentage, a high percentage of people within the group that gets SNAP anti-hunger payments are veterans. He's also asking the Seventh Circuit to let them hit veterans and clergy and First Amendment protesters

16:01Michael Popok:and members of the media with a car and tackle them and beat them up and assault them and batter them and use pepper spray on them and use rubber bullets on them at the Seventh Circuit. Judge Ellis put a stop to it. She issued in the last couple of days a order, a preliminary injunction with a long categorical list of things she will not let the Trump administration and its forces do, like use weapons, military-grade weapons on American people who are doing nothing more than legitimately First Amendment protest. Don't fire rubber bullets without warning. Don't use grenades and tear gas and pepper spray against Americans.

16:48Don't use unreasonable force. comply with the Constitution. And she issued that order. The Trump administration several days later, yesterday, filed an emergency appeal and a stay request to the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals that sits in Chicago. Now, they have sided against her once before, just to put our cards at the table. You know, I don't blow smoke or sunshine at the intersection. And Judge Ellis had ordered that a guy named Bovino, Greg Bovino, who ran Operation Midway Blitz for the Trump administration, that he report every day at 545 about the use of force on the streets. And the Seventh Circuit didn't like that.

17:35And they granted what's called a mandamus to stop or compel an official from doing something, in this case, a judge. and the mandamus ruling said that she had crossed the line from neutral arbitrator or arbiter into a person who's instead trying to do surveillance of an executive branch power. If they violate it, then a federal judge can do something about it. But she was more in a supervisory role, and they didn't like that. And so they overturned her order on that. Now, this is different. And the Seventh Circuit has said to the parties, I'm not going to grant the stay based on the papers, and gave them until Thursday, the Trump administration and the other side to fully brief the issue, and then they'll make their ruling.

18:26I think it's 50-50. I like Ellis's decision. I think it's the right one when you're seeing an out-of-control federal force on the streets, abusing, firing pepper balls into clergy's face heads, abusing the press, throwing them to the ground, using improper force, you know, for these issues. She can't sit idly by. And while they may not want her to get reports, this is her dictating conduct and behavior. It may fly. We'll have to see what the 7th said. And then, of course, it'll end up back at the United States Supreme Court, who are already trying to complete briefing off of another judge in Chicago.

19:12Her order at the Seventh Circuit upheld about the nationalization and the deployment of the state militia in Illinois by Donald Trump. That is up with the United States Supreme Court. So you got two issues in Chicago, two different judges, and it's sort of all coming together here about how Donald Trump is abusing just to troll J.B. Pritzker and the Democrats, Americans who are doing legitimate First Amendment protests, including veterans. I'm glad you're here with me. It's comforting for me to have you join with me here to talk about these issues so I can give you honest commentary at the intersection of law and politics.

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23:25Michael Popok:They've decided to extend the stay, meaning they're going to block the$3 billion worth of additional food payments to those who are the most needy in our society. That's a group that's never missed a meal, I assure you. They're going to do that until Thursday at midnight. Talk about playing politics. They must believe that the government's going to reopen and solve the problem for them. It may reopen tomorrow. I'm not so sure about that. And if it doesn't, then what? Now, Ketanji Brown Jackson in the order made it clear that she would not have agreed and does not agree with extending the stay, and she would deny the application for a stay.

24:09Leave it to Ketanji Brown Jackson to have the heart and the soul and the conscience of the United States Supreme Court. So once again, 42 million Americans, 16 million children are going have to make do on 60 % of their food support until Thursday. How do we feel about that? And if we don't like it, then we need to get up and do the voting thing and the protesting thing and the winning in court thing and be in a position where Donald Trump doesn't have the ability to appoint another member of the United States Supreme Court in the future because the Senate is controlled by Democrats. See how that plays out?

24:51Michael Popok:Let me turn now back to the United States Supreme Court and talk about tariffs. Donald Trump woke up and decided that he's going to lose on the tariffs, despite all of his administration all around him whistling past the graveyard after listening to that oral argument. Nobody listening to that oral argument that's in their right mind believed that Donald Trump was going to win that. Even the Trumpers, even the MAGA 6, or at least Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett and Roberts questioned how a president, even with broad foreign affairs and Article 2 powers, how a president can impose tariffs that is the core constitutional non-delicable function of Congress.