Trump FBI Director Gets Instant Karma in Lawsuit

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2:25Michael Popok:That beleaguered FBI Director Cash Patel and your$250 million defamation case against the Atlantic to try to rehabilitate your reputation meet a hard place. That would be Judge Emmett Sullivan, who's been assigned to the case. He's a senior status judge in the District of Columbia Federal Court, a Clinton appointee, an independent maverick who does not suffer fools, especially at the Department of Justice. and I'm sure is going to be very hard on Kash Patel's lawsuit and the allegations made in it as The Atlantic, I'm sure, is busy working on their motion to dismiss this case. I'm Michael Popak.

3:08Michael Popok:Let's give you an update about what's happening in the Kash Patel case because it matters. Thank you to our audience. We found out today that Legal AF, the podcast, won two Weppy Awards for Best News and Politics podcast, including a People's Choice Award, a People's Voice Award, and that The Intersection, my podcast, won the People's Voice Award for Best Podcast in News. And we really appreciate your support for that. Let's get back to the lawsuit filed in the last 24 hours. Now, The Atlantic ran an article on the 17th of April, which they stand by. I'm sure it's been well sourced. I don't have insider knowledge, but I know The Atlantic would not run it unless it was run by and vetted within an inch of its life by the First Amendment lawyers that work with and for The Atlantic in terms of grilling the reporter to make sure everything, I's dotted and T's crossed.

4:03Michael Popok:Their allegations, their allegations, but they're about as believable as anything that Kash Patel has been saying, is that Kash Patel frequents places like cocktail lounges in Vegas and bars in Washington and New York and sometimes can't be found and has been derelict in his duties as a result of that he's compromised national security because he is vulnerable to be his alcoholism, as alleged. The Atlantic is vulnerable to being exploited by our adversaries. Sounds legitimate. Sounds like a lot of the things that we've been saying. All you got to do is watch clips of Kash Patel, battle it out in Congress, and you have questioned his own capabilities for sure.

4:46Michael Popok:The Atlantic has come out with the following statement, which is one sentence, and I think says it all. We stand by our reporting on Kash Patel and we will vigorously defend The Atlantic and our journalists against this meritless lawsuit. Thank you, Atlantic. Let's get back to the, so the allegations in brief, as you probably know, in fact, he had to list them all, all the allegations that he doesn't like. So I'm just going to read from a few of them on paragraph 18 of the complaint that has been reproduced by Kash Patel. that this is a paragraph 18, which we've posted on Legal AF Substack for paid members, that Patel is known to drink to the point of obvious intoxication.

5:28Michael Popok:In many cases at the private club, Ned's in Washington, D.C., and the White House knows about it. That he drinks to excess at the Poodle Room in Las Vegas. By the way, as you're going through this, these are all of the legitimate areas for discovery, for depositions. Let's have the staff from the Poodle Room. Let's have the staff from NEDS. Let's see the credit card receipts and are there videos. You see, that's why if you're trying to figure out who's telling the truth there, there's a lot of corroborating evidence that the Atlantic may already have access to, but certainly will come out during a lawsuit.

6:03Michael Popok:Have a seat, Cash Patel. Swear in for your deposition. You see where this is going? Okay. They also talked about having to move. This is in the allegations reproduced in the complaint that meetings and briefings had to be moved to the afternoon because of his alcohol-fueled nights, that they had difficulty waking Patel because he was seemingly intoxicated, that they had a request for breaching equipment to knock down the doors to find Patel, who couldn't be woke out, that he had a freakout in the beginning of April, about a week or so ago, when he was locked out of his computer seven or eight times, and he was convinced that he had been fired and had a meltdown and so on and so on.

6:48Michael Popok:Now, they instead, their defense is, have you seen Kash Patel during the Senate and House confirmation hearings? Look how great he is. He's totally on top of his job. Is that what we're watching? In fact, just to remind you what we're watching before I turn to the judge, here's a clip of Kash Patel. Play it. And let me make something crystal clear. I never said Jeffrey Epstein didn't traffic other people, other women, and they're not other victims. This is the investigation we were given from 2006, 7, and 8, and the search warrants from 2006, 7, and 8. That's what we're working with. Wait, have you released all of the stuff that the FBI has seized from Epstein's house?

7:23The computers, the emails, the file cabinets, the documents? What about the financial records? Have you released all of that? Everything the court has allowed us to release. Which court are you talking about? Three separate federal courts have come in and said... We're talking about the evidence you've got. It's got nothing to do with what those courts have. Do you have any idea how the law works? Do you want me to break the law in a federal judge's order to satisfy your curiosity? No, I want you to follow your own word, Director Patel. You said up there it was under the direct control of the FBI director.

7:52He had the black book. And everything I have direct control over, we have gone to court. You haven't. Complete your sentence. Everything you have direct control over, you said. We have gone to court and everything we have direct control over. Director Patel, complete your sentence. You said everything. Lawfully release, we're releasing. Much more has come out in the days since the American people in Congress have been demanding it, but it's coming out in dribs and drabs. Why don't you just release the entire file as you promised to do? I literally just told you there are multiple federal court orders.

8:21I'm not going to break the law to satisfy your curiosity. You didn't join us when we filed court to release the court orders. You could have. You have lawyers. You could have shown up. You didn't do that. Let's talk about the witness interviews, 302s of witness interviews. Those are not subject to the court order. Those are not subject to any fictional sealed order for a search warrant. Why aren't you releasing those with the redacted names of the victims? We are releasing as much as legally allowed. That's why we went back to court. How is that not legally allowed? Sir, do you know how court orders work?

8:55Do you know how protective orders work? Actually, Mr. Patel, I was a real prosecutor for 10 years. I know exactly how court orders. So I was a fake one? You are hiding the Epstein files, Mr. Patel. has expired. You are part of the cover-up.

9:07Michael Popok:Now, the whole thing starts with a defense of his tenure in the last 15 months. So in paragraph nine of the complaint, it lists all the amazing things that he wants to take credit for at the FBI, some of which is really not the credit. Credit is not to be given to the FBI. Let's talk about murder rates for a minute. Murder is not a federal offense unless there's a federal crime committed as a result. It is a state crime. If you have lower murder rates in your town, especially since COVID, it is probably because of your local state police, county sheriff, or local police department. It has nothing to do with the feds unless there's a federal crime.

9:49Michael Popok:There's very small amounts of federal crime that are committed that also lead to murders, even mass shootings like we had over the last weekend where 13, 14 Americans died. that's not a federal offense okay if state lines are crossed sometimes the feds get involved i get it but that if there's like a murder spree but if if for him to take credit i might as well take credit for the lower uh murder rates in america you know well the more time people are watching videos on midas the less time they're out doing something else i mean that's how ridiculous that argument is he then talks about uh violent crime arrests being up again many of these violent crime arrests are not being done by the FBI.

10:30Michael Popok:They're being done by state and local officials. Then he talks about disruption. I don't even know what this term is. The successful disruption of 670 individuals from conducting terrorist attacks. What's a disruption of 2 ,000 gangs? That's not a term of art in law enforcement. You disrupt, did you arrest them? Did you indict them? Are they in jail? They're disrupted. Okay. No idea what that means. I don't think anybody does. But again, by filing this lawsuit, all Kash Patel has opened himself up to is to sit in a chair with the Atlantic's lawyers, cross-examining him, and maybe at a public trial about the allegations of his drinking.

11:16Michael Popok:Is that what he really wants? We just saw how he performs under pressure. Here's another clip of what you can expect Kash Patel to be like at his deposition. Play the clip. I don't think you're fitting him to bureau, but here's the thing, Mr. Patel. I think you're not going to be around long. I think this might be your last oversight hearing, because as much as you supplicate yourself to the will of Donald Trump and not the Constitution of the United States of America, Donald Trump has shown us in his first term and in this term, He is not loyal to people like you. He will cut you loose. This may be the last time I have a hearing with you because I don't think you're long for your job.

11:56But I'm going to tell you this. I pray for you. I pray for you that you can step up and defend your oath, defend the Constitution, and do a much better job of defending this country. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

12:10Michael Popok:Do you want to say anything? Yes, sir.

12:16that rant of false information does not bring this country together. If you want to work on bringing this country, it's my time, not yours. My God, my God. If you want to talk about... Biding this country, I follow you on your social media posts that tear this country apart. It is my time to address your falsehoods. You can try all you want to not take responsibility for what you have said. Sir, you're making a mockery of this committee. Sir, you don't tell me my time is over. The people of New Jersey tell me what my time is. You can't lecture me. You can tell me my time's over.

12:52Michael Popok:You may be the target. I'm not going anywhere. I am not afraid of you. Mr. Chairman. I'm not afraid of you. Look, the magnesium, it's something most of us lack. And if you're taking that drugstore variant, you're still not getting the full picture. Industrial farming, chronic stress, and everyday aging all make it worse. Most supplements only use one form of magnesium, but magnesium comes in many forms that support your body in different ways. That's why you need to try Qualia Magnesium Plus. It combines 10 bioavailable forms of magnesium with more than 70 trace minerals for comprehensive full-spectrum support.

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14:14Michael Popok:Go to qualialife.com slash legal AF for 50 % off. And here's a bonus. Use the code legal AF for an additional 15 % off your order. That's Q-U-A-L-I-A life.com slash legal AF. And then use code legal AF. Thanks to Qualia. for sponsoring this episode. Now let's talk about Emmett Sullivan here. Emmett Sullivan is probably Kash Patel's worst nightmare. Most of the judges in the D.C. federal courts, which is where they had to file this apparently because Kash Patel lives in D.C. I mean, they could have gone to some other place. Yeah, I'm surprised they didn't file it in Florida, arguing that like, well, The Atlantic, you know, has a Florida connection.

15:02Michael Popok:But the problem is Patel doesn't. So Patel apparently only has an apartment or a place to live in D.C. You got to sue where you live generally unless you've been injured somewhere else. So I thought I think he was sort of stuck in D.C. And if he's stuck in D.C., most of the judges there have been appointed by Democratic presidents. So he was bound to get somebody he didn't like. There's only a couple in there that would have gone his way. Now, at the appellate court, there's a couple of Trump-appointed judges that often get put on the panel. They make up about 15 % of the appellate panel, like Judge Rayo and Judge Katzis and Judge Walker.

15:42Michael Popok:But we're at the district court level first. So Sullivan involved with the Flynn when Lieutenant Colonel Flynn for lying to Congress was indicted. Trump comes in, decides they're going to try to dismiss the indictment. Department of Justice comes in and Emmett Sullivan grills them. How can you dismiss? Why are you? It looks like it's political. Why are you doing this? How are you doing this? Even Bill Barr tried to get it dismissed. Now, ultimately, the dismissal doesn't happen. Flynn gets sentenced and convicted and now has been pardoned by Donald Trump. Roger Stone, another political operative of Donald Trump, one of the architects of Stop the Steal back in 2016, Roger Stone was sentenced by Emmett Sullivan.

16:38Michael Popok:Now, he didn't throw the book at him. He gave him sort of a middle-of-the-road 40-month sentence, which was ultimately commuted by Donald Trump. So Emmett Sullivan is no one to – doesn't suffer fools and doesn't – you're not going to want to pick a fight with. Now, the lawyers for Patel, let's talk about them for a minute, which is Jesse Banal. They're based in Virginia, got a couple of lawyers that work in Florida. They've represented Donald Trump before. He's not their current go-to firm, or they're not the current go-to firm for Trump. But I'm sure Patel got there through a Trump connection and recommendation.

17:21Michael Popok:If I had to guess, it would be Stan Woodward, who's the number three in the Department of Justice, and a MAGA lawyer himself recommended it, or maybe Todd Blanche or somebody like that to have this law firm in Virginia represent him. Now, here's what's going to happen. We've seen it time and time again. the Atlantic is going to file a relatively quick motion to dismiss. They may move for a quick, if they want to be really aggressive, they move for a quick deposition of Kash Patel. That's what I would do. I move for a deposition of Kash Patel, get him under oath quick, then move for summary judgment relatively early in the case, which would completely be dispositive of the case and end it.

18:14Michael Popok:The other way to do it is to do a motion to dismiss, which would give Kash Patel effectively a couple of opportunities. The weak points of the complaint, which are many, but the main one that media relies on is that they haven't argued sufficiently, haven't alleged sufficiently what's called actual malice. see a media company including ours you can't sue them for defamation unless you can prove as a public figure like cash patel is that the media company ran the story knowing it was false or with reckless disregard as to whether it was true or false right okay so you have to have facts to support that.

19:00Michael Popok:You have to have them now. So you can argue that it is, you can argue in defense, if you're the Atlantic, that it's true. Truth is a defense of defamation. But normally you focus on there's no actual malice. Now, when you go to the actual malice section, it's not really a section about knowledge that the Atlantic knew or should have known what they were running was not true. It's more of, well, a reasonable, incredible reporter would have done the following. And I have a feeling, based on the Atlantic's response, that they did that. Here they say on paragraph 41, a responsible reporter, a competent editor, or a non-reckless fact checker would have taken notice of the following.

19:47Michael Popok:and then go through, for instance, A, the FBI's extensive, contemporaneous, and publicly documented operational output under Director Patel is inconsistent with a director who's off and away or unreachable or intoxicated. I don't even understand that. He's not actually doing the work. There are people in the FBI still. So that's their best argument. Look at what he's done. as a department. We can't do that if he's also a drunk. His congressional testimony and briefings depict a director who's engaged in substantively prepared and actively directing bureau operations. Is that what that looks like?

20:36Michael Popok:So if this is the best they've got, oh, and they also don't like the fact that people inside the FBI who cooperated with the Atlantic to say it's good that Patel runs around chasing after nonsense because it makes the country safer because he's not getting involved with things that matter. Oh, they have an axe to grind because they were eye-rolling about Patel. Just because somebody makes a statement and also does an eye-roll doesn't mean that they are not telling the truth or that the reporter shouldn't rely on them. The reporter had credible insider witnesses testifying to them, giving them this information.

21:16Michael Popok:And it's very easy to corroborate. They say, well, they didn't call the poodle room, the poodle lounge. How do they know? Okay? Maybe they did. Maybe they called NEDS. Maybe they got the cash register receipts. Look, they're very confident in running this article. And I think Emmett Sullivan, the judge here, is going to make Kash Patel's lawyers have to do better than this complaint. I think this complaint gets dismissed, just like the Wall Street Journal complaint got dismissed that Donald Trump brought against Rupert Murdoch in the Wall Street Journal. He'll have probably one more shot under the federal rules, under practice, to do another attempt to get actual malice right.

22:07Michael Popok:And failing that, this case is over. Or you go really aggressively, you put Kash Patel under oath and see if you can catch him. That's another way. I've done that in cases. We'll see which one The Atlantic does. We'll follow it here on Legal AF and on the Midas Touch Network. Thank you again for your contributions to our Webby Award wins. Until my next report, this is Michael. Can't get your fill of Legal AF? Me neither. That's why we formed the Legal AF Substack. Every time we mention something in a hot take, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument, come over to the Substack. You'll find the court filing and the oral argument there, including a daily roundup that I do call, wait for it, Morning AF.

22:46Michael Popok:What else? All the other contributors from Legal AF are there as well. We got some new reporting. We got interviews. We got ad-free versions of the podcast and hot takes. Where? Legal AF on Substack. Come over now to free subscribe. When I found out I was going to be a parent, I immediately felt a lot of anxiety and worry. So I went on to BetterHelp to try to look for a therapist to help me with that. My relationship with my family and with my boyfriend and with myself were suffering. I really needed help. I was ruminating a lot. Really getting those thoughts out to a therapist and getting feedback was just life-changing.

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