Trump Gets Rude Awakening From Grand Jury

0:00For everyone who solves crime from their couch, knows more about forensics than their own job, and has trust issues with small-town sheriffs, Amazon Music's millions of podcast episodes are calling. Just download the Amazon Music app and start listening to your favorite true crime podcasts ad-free.

0:17Michael Popok:Included with Prime. As Pam Bondi hits the hot seat for sworn testimony before the House Judiciary Committee, she's got a lot of explaining to do because something really bad happened just before she took the stand. Last night, a grand jury rejected yet again the Department of Justice and its attempts to indict the political critics of Donald Trump. The D.C. grand jury completely rebuffed the attempts by the Department of Justice, U.S. Attorney for D.C., Janine Pirro, to indict Senators Mark Kelly, Senators Elise Slotkin, and other members of Congress, six in total, who had made a now famous battle cry video, don't give up the ship messaging to service people that they have a constitutional obligation not to follow illegal orders.

1:12Michael Popok:It's exactly, exactly consistent with the Code of Military Justice, with the Nuremberg principles. And yet Donald Trump went crazy, said it was seditious conspiracy, and that George Washington would have hanged them. And right on cue, Pete Hegseth said that they were the seditious six, the seditious six, no less. And what does the grand jury do? No, nah, nope, not doing it. This is a momentous sea change that I don't want you to lose sight of. Grand juries around the country, and I'm talking dozens and dozens and dozens of grand juries, are standing up and saying collectively, nope, we are not going to allow a lawless Trump Department of Justice to indict fellow Americans or others.

2:04Michael Popok:And this is unprecedented. I've been doing this for more than 35 years. You can count on two fingers the amount of indictments I can recall of high profile or other cases that the Department of Justice didn't obtain an indictment. Now we're talking about 30, 40, 50. And that is a good thing. That is a firewall to protect our rule of law. The federal court system, judges, juries, grand juries, they are not giving the Department of Justice the benefit of the doubt. They are not rubber stamping them. They are not blindly following them. they are because they've lost all integrity. They've lost all ethics.

2:44Michael Popok:They've lost all credibility. This is what happens when you hollow out a once proud organization called the Department of Justice and you weaponize it and you make it political. And it's obvious to everybody who can see it. And now it's filtering down, of course, to the grand juries. I'm Michael Popak. You're on Midas Touch and on Legal AF. Let's talk about what just happened on Tuesday night. We knew that they were working on this indictment because Mark Kelly, the senator from Arizona, ran to federal court and had a very good hearing last week in front of Judge Leon in the District of Columbia to stop Pete Hegseth, the Department of Defense secretary, from censuring him as a retired military Navy captain for participating in the video.

3:31Michael Popok:and had a very good hearing in front of the judge, both under the First Amendment and the speech and debate privilege. I mean, Mark Kelly is on oversight committees like Armed Services Committee that provides oversight to these entities. And those entities are going to censure him because he told the truth. We also know that they were close to getting an indictment because Elisa Slotkin, Michigan Senator, who put the video together, she let the world know that she was called in to the Department of Justice to meet with Jeanine Pirro, And she refused. Instead, her lawyers told them to not only pound sand, but don't even go forward and they should dismiss the entire investigation.

4:08Michael Popok:That didn't stop them, mainly because the Department of Justice is scared of their boss. And I mean, Donald Trump. They'd rather lose at juries and grand juries and before judges than have to say, well, we tried, than to go back and say, no, under the principles of federal prosecution, under the Department of Justice manual, under my own oath. How ironic. Under my own oath sworn to uphold the Constitution as an officer of the court, I will not bring this case. They won't do it. They can't do it. Let's start with a couple of videos I think you're going to find interesting. One is the actual 90-second video, Don't Give Up the Ship, by six members of Congress who served in the intelligence community, you know, covert operations and or the branches of the military.

4:58Michael Popok:talking directly to their fellow service people. And then I want to play a once long lost clip of Pete Hegseth giving a lecture at a military academy 10 years ago or so. You can tell it's 10 years ago by his hair color. And that Alisa Slotkin and others found to show you that he agrees with the video's premise, even though he now calls them Seditious Six. Let's play the original video first. I'm Senator Alyssa Slotkin. Senator Mark Kelly. Representative Chris Deluzio. Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander. Representative Chrissy Houlihan. Congressman Jason Crowe. I was a captain in the United States Navy.

5:37Former CIA officer. Former Navy. Former paratrooper and Army Ranger. Former intelligence officer. Former Air Force. We want to speak directly to members of the military and the intelligence community who take risks each day to keep Americans safe. We know you are under enormous stress and pressure right now. Americans trust their military. But that trust is at risk. This administration is pitting our uniformed military and intelligence community professionals against American citizens. Like us, you all swore an oath to protect and defend this Constitution. Right now, the threats to our Constitution aren't just coming from abroad, but from right here at home.

6:12Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders. You can refuse illegal orders. You must refuse illegal orders. No one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our Constitution. We know this is hard. And that it's a difficult time to be a public servant. But whether you're serving in the CIA, the Army, or Navy, the Air Force, your vigilance is critical. And know that we have your back. Because now, more than ever, the American people need you. We need you to stand up for our laws, our Constitution, and who we are as Americans. Don't give up. Don't give up. Don't give up. Don't give up the ship.

6:55Michael Popok:Now, here's Pete Hegseth. I'm sure praying to God that we would never find this video now, but we found it. And here's the video of him saying the exact same thing. Can't follow illegal orders. Play the clip. If you're doing something that is just completely unlawful and ruthless, then there is a consequence for that. That's why the military said it won't follow unlawful orders from their commander in chief. There's a standard. There's an ethos. There's a belief that we are above what so many things that our enemies or others would do. Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders. Now, Mark Kelly, speaking right after his hearing last week about not having his First Amendment speech chilled, not having his speech and debate privilege chilled, said this to the American people.

7:45Michael Popok:Play the clip. Hey, folks, I just got out of federal court here in Washington, D.C. in my case against Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of Defense. First of all, I really appreciate the judge giving this very timely consideration. This is about everybody's rights as Americans, delineated in the Constitution, specifically about the First Amendment, that as Americans, we have the right to say what we want, especially when it comes to the government. And doing my job as a United States Senator on the Armed Services Committee, this administration, the president, didn't like what I said. And for that, I'm in federal court today.

8:24But this isn't just about me. This is about all Americans, especially retired service members, over 2 million retired service members who this government is telling them they do not have the same free speech rights as everybody else. That's wrong. It's un-American and it has to stop.

8:44Michael Popok:Now, we knew that this was progressing as a criminal investigation in the D.C. office, Janine Pirro. And then, of course, the D.C. office operates in D.C., which means you're pulling your jury and your grand jury from the community, the demographic of Washington. And Washington, D.C., which has been under siege by Donald Trump with the National Guard right till this minute, is paying back the Trump administration. It's obvious. Now, Jeanine Pirro has come out in the past and said, oh, grand juries, you know, they're liberals. I don't know why they're not indicting. Here's Jeanine Pirro complaining about why she's not getting grand juries to indict on her behalf.

9:27Michael Popok:Play it. Unprecedented pushback from grand juries and even magistrate judges who were refusing to take indictments. How do you explain? You know, if I were here for a long time, I might be able to answer that question, but I've been here since May. So, I mean, I have my thoughts, but I can't say for sure. Well, has it affected the way that your office prosecutes and charges? Yeah, we charge higher. And so they went forward with this. Why? Because Janine Pirro is afraid of Donald Trump. She won't, she won't refuse him. That's why she tried to indict people that threw a salami sandwich at an ICE officer for, for assault and why that failed.

10:07Michael Popok:Elisa Slotkin and her lawyers get called in last week through the sergeant of arms in Congress to go give testimony voluntarily. They said, bring it. Dismiss your dismiss your case. Between the First Amendment and speech and debate privilege, I have the right to speak and it can't be criminalized. Here's what Elisa Slotkin had to say. Earlier today, I sent a letter to Attorney General Bondi and to the lead Department of Justice lawyer in D.C., Janine Pirro, telling them, one, I will not be complying with their inquiries and sitting down for an interview based on a 90 second video I filmed. And number two, urging them to retain their records on this case in case I decide to sue for infringement of my constitutional rights.

10:52Michael Popok:What's going to happen next? They may try again, but they're going to fail. And grand juries and juries and judges are standing up in year two of the Trump administration the way they never had before. I mean, the grand juries for sure. And so if you get picked to be on a grand jury or a jury, you do your civic duty. You listen to the evidence. But if you don't find that there is probable cause for a crime, you reject it. It's getting so bad for the Trump administration and Department of Justice that when they tried to go after Letitia James, the New York Attorney General, and get her indicted three times, it failed.

11:34Michael Popok:Two times in the last month or two. One grand jury not only said they're not going to return the indictment, but they're going to announce it in public that they didn't return a true bill of indictment. The Department of Justice was so embarrassed by that that they asked the judge to seal the record so that nobody would know, so you and I would know about it. And the judge says, I don't know why the grand jury wanted to go into public and announce that they had returned a no bill of indictment, no true bill of indictment. I can only speculate, but I'm not sealing it either. This is the Department of Justice.

12:10Michael Popok:The Department of Justice is even worried about having to report back to their bosses what happened and suffering the ire of Donald Trump. If they think Donald Trump was willing to hang these six members of Congress, what do you think they're going to do to you and the Department of Justice? Time to leave. I can't believe that. I mean, I haven't seen many new hires. But I can't believe rank and file prosecutors are still inside of this Department of Justice with any shred of integrity or dignity or ethics. You know, I know in the beginning you thought, well, if I stay here, I can resist from the inside.

12:46Michael Popok:and they'll, no, forget it. You'll just get fired, you know, and you'll do bad things. You'll be forced to do bad things in the interim. So that's my don't give up the shit message to members of my profession and my bar. So until my next report, you're here on Midas Touch. You're on Legal AF. Hit the subscribe buttons for YouTube for both. Come over to Legal AF Substack as well. Until my next report, this is Michael. Can't get your fill of Legal AF? Me neither. That's why we formed the Legal AF Substack. Every time we mention something in a hot take, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument, come over to the Substack.

13:26Michael Popok:You'll find the court filing and the oral argument there, including a daily roundup that I do call, wait for it, Morning AF. What else? All the other contributors from Legal AF are there as well. We got some new reporting. We got interviews. We got ad-free versions of the podcast and hot takes where Legal AF on Substack. Come over now to free subscribe. You know what's wild? Most people are still overpaying for car insurance just because it's a pain to switch. That's why there's Jerry. Jerry's the only app that compares rates from over 50 insurers in minutes and helps you switch fast with no spam calls or hidden fees.

14:08Drivers who save with Jerry could save over$1 ,300 a year Before you renew your car insurance policy, do yourself a favor. Download the Jerry app or head to jerry.ai slash Lipson. That's J-E-R-R-Y dot A-I slash L-I-B-S-Y-N.