🚨 Trump Gets Tables Turned on Him as DOJ Headed to Trial

24 Oct 2025 · 18 min · 7 chapters

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In short

The episode discusses a federal evidentiary hearing scheduled for November 4–5 in the Kilmer Abrego-Garcia case, framed as “vindictive prosecution” by the DOJ. The host argues Abrego-Garcia was illegally deported to El Salvador despite immigration orders, later returned only after fabricated charges tied to a prior traffic stop. Key claims include that Judge Crenshaw found it more likely than not that vindictive prosecution drove the charges, focusing on Todd Blanche’s Fox News statements. The defense (Sean Ecker) subpoenaed DOJ officials and wants discovery/witnesses; the government says discovery is rare and overbroad.

Notable examples

the Supreme Court and Fourth Circuit rulings calling the deportation illegal; the Fox clip about investigating alleged MS-13 membership.

Guests

none named as interview guests; legal commentators Michael Popak and Sean Ecker are referenced.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

Trial of Trump Administration Begins

0:58 to 1:28

Explore the evidentiary hearing against the Trump administration regarding vindictive prosecution.

“By the time I hit my 50s, I'd learned a few things.”

Trial of Trump Administration Begins

2:29 to 4:49

Explore the evidentiary hearing against the Trump administration regarding vindictive prosecution.

“The very first trial evidentiary hearing against the Trump administration, the Department of Justice for vindictive prosecution.”

Details of Abrego-Garcia's Case

4:49 to 9:00

Learn about the illegal deportation case of Kilmer Abrego-Garcia and its legal implications.

“Abrego Garcia was minding his own business.”

Discovery and Depositions in Trump's Civil Cases

10:12 to 14:00

Investigate the implications of Trump's recent lawsuits and potential witness testimonies.

“They filed in their opposition to certain of the discovery.”

Witnesses and Testimony in Trump's Legal Battles

14:00 to 15:11

Learn about potential witnesses in Trump's ongoing legal issues and the implications of their testimonies.

“You could call Ghislaine Maxwell, couldn't you?”

Witnesses and Testimony in Trump's Legal Battles

17:10 to 17:37

Learn about potential witnesses in Trump's ongoing legal issues and the implications of their testimonies.

“See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com.”

Witnesses and Testimony in Trump's Legal Battles

17:42 to 18:11

Learn about potential witnesses in Trump's ongoing legal issues and the implications of their testimonies.

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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

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2:29Michael Popok:The very first trial evidentiary hearing against the Trump administration, the Department of Justice for vindictive prosecution. It'll be the blueprint for all the other vindictive prosecution motions that have been or will be filed by the enemy list if Donald Trump starts on November 4 and 5. But we already got a lot of fireworks in the courtroom of Judge Crenshaw presiding over the Kilmer Abrego Garcia case brought by the U.S. government as a framed job to cover up for the fact that they illegally deported him and removed him to El Salvador. and it took a 9-0 vote of the Supreme Court to get him back.

3:06Michael Popok:Even then, they only brought him back after they fabricated charges against Kilmer Abrego-Garcia about a traffic stop three years ago. And now the lawyers for Abrego-Garcia preparing themselves appropriately for an evidentiary hearing, a trial in front of a federal judge, want witnesses, want documents, want evidence. They're a criminal defendant and defense team. They're entitled to these things. Anybody that watches My Cousin Vinny the movie knows that the defense is entitled to exculpatory and inculpatory information. And as of right now, they haven't received any of it. So they did what any self-respecting criminal defense lawyer would do.

3:43Michael Popok:And I know these defense lawyers, Sean Ecker out of New York. They subpoenaed Todd Blanche and others in leadership of the Department of Justice to come to the hearing to testify about vindictive prosecution. because this case is set up in a very unique way. Because the judge, Judge Crenshaw, has already ruled in the last two weeks that it is more likely than not that vindictive prosecution was at the heart of bringing these charges against him. You have to look for the animus. You look for the animus in words and deeds and actions and emails in statements made on Fox News. And in fact, the judge said Todd Blanche, the number two lawyer in the Department of Justice, Donald Trump's current and present and future, and past defense lawyer, he said some things on Fox News, which indicate to the judge that there is at least a presumption of vindictive prosecution.

4:37Michael Popok:And now the defense has pounced on that and issued their trial subpoenas. I cover it all right here. I'm so excited. I cover it all right here on the Midas Dutch Network and for Legal AF on Michael Popak. All right, let's dive in. How'd we get here? Abrego Garcia was minding his own business. I think he was at a Home Depot or something in Maryland when he got picked up in a sweep, except he had an order in his pocket from an immigration judge in America that says he can't be sent to El Salvador. He was sent to El Salvador with 250 other human beings, men, to the torture prison, SICOT, in El Salvador.

5:11Michael Popok:And it was illegal. It was illegal. It was admitted by the government that it was illegal. The Supreme Court called that illegal. The Fourth Circuit twice called that illegal. And Judge Zinnis called that illegal. They finally, after several months, the government finally brought him back, but only after they trumped up some fake charges against him for human trafficking, transporting human beings in a van, apparently, off a traffic stop from three years ago where he wasn't even cited for a lack of insurance. He was let go. And so at the bottom, you see the animus, you see the hatred, you see Donald Trump's statements, you see Kristi Noem's statements, You see Pam Bondi's statements.

5:50Michael Popok:And you see Todd Blanche on Fox. In fact, the only thing that Judge Crenshaw seemed to focus on in his order, where he set up the evidentiary hearing for November 4 and 5, were the statements made by Todd Blanche on Fox. So of course Todd Blanche is going to get deposed, or he's going to be up on the stand. Why wouldn't he be? The judge focused on it in his own motion. Let me show you a clip that we're talking about that got the judge all excited. Here's the clip. Judge Boasberg's decision, which I thought was, you know, over the top Supreme Court saying, you know, you got to try to facilitate the return.

6:28So you're saying tonight that that the warning of possible contempt charges against administration officials, none of that had anything to do with the investigation. No, I mean, first of all, the Supreme Court stayed any contempt proceedings by Judge Boasberg. That case has been stayed. In this case, we had a judge in Maryland tell us that, oh no, there's not any evidence that he's a member of MS-13. You had no right to deport him. And so what should we do as a Department of Justice when a judge is accusing us of doing something wrong? We have an obligation to everybody, including you, to investigate it.

7:05And that's exactly what we did. And so the reason why he was returned and the facilitation that brought him back here is not a judge. It's an arrest warrant issued by a grand jury from the Mill District of Tennessee, charging him with two counts of very serious charges.

7:19Michael Popok:Now, when we have things like that, we have an entitlement, whether you're in criminal court or you're in civil court, to get documents and information. We call it discovery. It's the same. Sometimes it's called disclosure, but we generally call it discovery. Criminal discovery, if you're a criminal defendant, that the prosecution has to turn over all sorts of what we call Brady material, all sorts of things that either prove, tend to prove your guilt or your innocence. Everything, nothing gets withheld. Here, everything's being withheld. And on the civil side, if Donald Trump is a plaintiff or a defendant, or he has Melania threaten to sue people, then that opens the whole Pandora's box, right?

8:02Michael Popok:It opens up everything. Depositions for Donald Trump. We'll talk about the civil side in a minute, because there's many cases that Donald Trump has decided to bring during his administration, not waiting for him to leave, which subjects him to this type of discovery and deposition under oath. Now, here's what the defense has told Judge Crenshaw, and I'm sure Judge Crenshaw's not too happy. He'll be pulling everybody together soon for a conference. But here's what Sean Hecker and the team for Abrego Garcia said. As of the filing of this status report a couple of days ago. The government has not produced any discovery to the defense, responded to the defense's letter concerning potential witnesses, nor identified any other anticipated hearing witness.

8:46Michael Popok:As a result, the defense is concerned it will not have sufficient time for the government to collect the discovery, review the discovery, provide the discovery, for any disputes to be resolved, all before November 4 and 5. Hey, everybody, Ben Micellis here from the Midas Touch Network. I wanted to let you know about my podcast partner, Michael Popak's new law firm. It's called the Popak Firm. Michael Popak's pursuing his dream of starting his own law firm, really based on the popular demand by all the Midas, Mighty, and Legal AFers who were approaching Michael Popak with their cases and saying, can you help us?

9:24And at that time, Popak was not able to. So he went out on his own. He started of the Popak Firm, where he is now handling catastrophic injury cases like car accident cases, trucking cases, malpractice cases, big negligence cases, wrongful death cases. So if you or someone you know have a case like this, the consultation with Popak's firm is free. Give him a call. See if you have a case. It's thepopokfirm.com, thepopokfirm.com, or you can call 877-POPOKAF, P-O-P-O-K-A-F. So 1-877-P-O-P-O-K-A-F. Give Michael Popok a call. And I'm really proud of you, Popok. Thanks for all the hard work you're putting in.

10:11Michael Popok:The government is freaked out. They filed in their opposition to certain of the discovery. and they made a revelation here on footnote two of their filing. Indeed, it is clear the government writes that defendant is not content to stop with this discovery. We haven't gotten any discovery from you. No way to prepare for the hearing. On October 20th, defense counsel subpoenaed the deputy attorney general, associate deputy attorney general, counselor to the deputy attorney general, as well as two HSI agents to testify at the evidentiary hearing. And then we're going to be filing a motion about that.

10:49Michael Popok:Well, good luck. The judge already saw the clip we just played. We brought the receipts about Todd Blanche. He is an important witness. They say, well, no, there's a guy named McGuire who's like the acting interim U.S. attorney in Tennessee. He'll do it. He'll talk about his role. That's not good enough. We don't trust the government. There's no presumption of regularity, which is a doctrine where judges would normally say, let's cut to the chase. I generally believe the Department of Justice is following its Department of Justice manual, its principles of federal prosecution, and things are regular.

11:27Michael Popok:Can't assume that here. Even the government says nothing about this case is regular. They say it in their own filing. It says, defense, this is on page eight, government, defendant's motion to compel should be denied. It is the rare case, I think we're in the rare case, aren't we, where the defendant is entitled to any discovery at all on a vindictive prosecution case. And the discovery sought here would be overbroad and highly damaging. It'd be highly damaging because they don't want to tell the truth that they are vindictively prosecuting Abrego Garcia.

12:08Michael Popok:And I don't agree with them based on the law that it is rare for there to be discovery related to vindictive prosecution. How do you prove the case without it? Now, I just interviewed Michael Wolff turning to civil side. Donald Trump has sued the New York Times for defamation. His wife has just threatened to sue Michael Wolff, the journalist and chronicler of Epstein and Donald Trump, for billions of dollars of defamation, but he sued her first in New York, just in the last several hours or so. And that opens the door for more discovery, more depositions. Melania under oath, Donald Trump under oath, Ghislaine Maxwell under oath.

12:52Michael Popok:You see where this is going? Those in their inner circle under oath. In fact, we covered it in my interview. And here's a clip. The judgment that says you can't do this. And this process will gives us now the right to call witnesses, subpoena power. And in those witnesses might very well, will very well include Melania Trump and Donald Trump and therefore afford me the opportunity to to really have an in-depth discussion with them. under oath before a court reporter about their relationship with Donald Trump. With Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, with Jeffrey Epstein, yes. So, I mean, Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein had this long, long, long friendship, really a joined by the hip friendship.

13:49So there will be a lot of questions. And there may be other witnesses called as well. Yes. And anyone who might have information about their relationship, Donald Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, Melania Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and his circle, yes. You could call Ghislaine Maxwell, couldn't you? Oh, he certainly could. Even though she's in a Texas camp right now. Yes. I mean, I don't know what the procedure is, but if she's subpoenaed, she has to testify. Yes. You could call, let me just say one other witness, you could call Paulo Zampoli, who is Melania's agent. Of course.

14:32Claims to have introduced Trump to Melania. Of course. And many others who I know who were involved in that circle.

14:44Michael Popok:Right? This is a can of worms and Donald Trump is a giant can opener. This is why presidents don't sue generally. It's only happened a couple of times in history. Don't sue during their presidency because they don't want to be able to, they don't want to have to testify or people in their families. It's usually protect my families. Don't go after my families. Forget that. Melania is threatening to use Donald Trump's own lawyer to go after people for phony claims of defamation. People get to defend themselves now. You can't say, well, I'm the president. You can't use the presidency as a sword to attack people in lawsuits and as a shield.

15:20Michael Popok:Oops, you can't. But I'm busy these days. you know we'll have to wait till after i'm done no then dismiss the lawsuits so i'm going to continue to follow it all as i do here on legal af on the midas touch network and over on legal af youtube hit the free subscribe button there we now more than ever need your help your defense your protection from the trump administration attacking legal af and midas touch keep us on the air. Keep the content coming. Legal AF YouTube, 10 new videos a day. Legal AF Substack and Substack Live,$6.77 a month to keep us on the air, so to speak. So until my next report, I'm Michael Popak.

16:04Michael Popok:Can't get your fill of Legal AF? Me neither. That's why we formed the Legal AF Substack. Every time we mention something in a hot take, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument. Come over to the Substack. You'll find the court filing and the oral argument there, including a daily roundup that I do call, wait for it, Morning AF. What else? All the other contributors from Legal AF are there as well. We got some new reporting. We got interviews. We got ad-free versions of the podcast and hot takes where Legal AF on Substack. Come over now to free subscribe.

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From the publisher

The very FIRST trial against the Trump Administration and his DOJ for vindictive prosecution and dismissal of an indictment brought against one of his political enemies starts in just a few days, and the Defense is going after top DOJ and Trump lawyers to have them testify in open court. Popok breaks down the new trial subpoenas issued to DOJ #2 Todd Blanche and others, and how Trump’s and Melania’s civil suits will force him and his wife to sit for depositions and provide documents he’d rather not provide, and his vindictive criminal cases will drag his top lawyers into trial.

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