Trump Loses His Mind as Fed Chair Refuses to Obey

31 Jan 2026 · 18 min · 7 chapters

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Legal AF Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title

Trump Loses His Mind as Fed Chair Refuses to Obey

Hosts

  • Ben Meiselas: Founder of MeidasTouch, civil rights lawyer
  • Michael Popok: National trial lawyer strategist
  • Karen Friedman Agnifilo: Former Chief Assistant District Attorney of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office

Episode Overview This episode explores the tensions between President Donald Trump and Federal Reserve Chair Jay Powell, examining the implications of economic policies under the Trump administration. The discussion highlights the current state of the economy, including rising oil prices, consumer confidence, and the response of the Federal Reserve amid these challenges.

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Key Themes and Discussions

Independence of the Federal Reserve

  • Jay Powell's Position: The episode opens with Powell reinforcing the independence of the Federal Reserve from political pressure, particularly from Trump. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining this independence to ensure sound monetary policy that serves the public interest.
  • Impact of Trump's Policies: The hosts discuss how Trump's erratic policies have led to economic instability, with Powell's leadership being a stabilizing force amidst the chaos.

Economic Indicators

  • Consumer Confidence: The episode reveals alarming consumer confidence numbers, worse than during the COVID-19 pandemic. This indicates a significant reluctance to spend, which is detrimental to economic growth.
  • Oil Prices: Recent reports show a spike in oil prices, attributed to geopolitical tensions and Trump's aggressive rhetoric towards Iran. Gas prices are expected to rise, affecting everyday consumers.
  • Trade Deficit: An increase in the trade deficit is noted, with imports rising while exports are falling, showcasing the negative impact of tariffs and deteriorating relationships with key trading partners.

The Trump Economy

  • Economic Performance: The hosts analyze various economic metrics, showing how they have worsened under Trump's administration. For example, the U.S. dollar's decline reflects a lack of confidence in the management of the economy.
  • Public Sentiment: Polling data is discussed, highlighting Trump's negative approval ratings regarding his economic management, with a significant gap in favorability compared to Democrats.

Powell's Response to Trump

  • Direct Confrontation: The episode includes clips of Jay Powell defending the Federal Reserve's actions against Trump's attempts to exert influence. He stresses the need for decisions based on economic conditions rather than political whims.
  • Future of the Federal Reserve: The discussion touches on potential future scenarios where Trump may try to stack the Federal Reserve Board with loyalists if re-elected, which could threaten the institution's independence.

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Conclusion The episode underscores the critical role that Jay Powell and the Federal Reserve play in navigating the turbulent economic landscape created by Trump's policies. The conversation serves as a reminder of the importance of institutional independence in maintaining economic stability and public confidence.

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Key Takeaways

  • Importance of Fed Independence: The Federal Reserve's ability to operate free from political influence is crucial for healthy economic management.
  • Current Economic Challenges: Rising oil prices and declining consumer confidence indicate serious economic distress.
  • Political Dynamics: The ongoing confrontation between Trump and Powell is emblematic of broader struggles over economic policy and governance.

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Additional Information

  • Podcast Frequency: New full-length episodes are released every Wednesday and Sunday.
  • Substack Community: The hosts encourage listeners to subscribe to their Substack for additional insights and updates on legal and political developments.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

Federal Reserve's Independence and Trump

3:13 to 4:12

Discussion on Jay Powell's defense of the Federal Reserve's independence from Trump.

“get his hands off the Federal Reserve and its independence for the second time in the last two weeks.”

Economic Concerns Under Trump's Stewardship

4:14 to 6:05

Analyzing the economic situation and consumer confidence during Trump's administration.

“I'm Michael Popok, using my Wall Street superpowers to bring it all together with you here about the Trump-anomics, which in the last 48 hours has showed its true colors.”

Impact of Oil Prices and Tariffs

6:08 to 8:03

Exploring the rise in oil prices and the implications of Trump's tariff policies.

“Now, what is in the polling of consumer confidence that Jay Powell and the Federal Reserve are looking at?”

The Federal Reserve's Economic Policy

11:55 to 14:15

Discussion of the Federal Reserve's policies and the importance of its independence.

“If we produce more, the American consumer cannot consume all of the services and AI and technology, agriculture and goods, you know, retail and, you know, manufacturing things that the U.S.”

Jay Powell's Stand Against Trump

14:15 to 15:48

Explore Jay Powell's response to political pressures on the Federal Reserve.

“If you lose that, it's going to be hard to retain it.”

The Importance of Fed Independence

15:48 to 16:28

Understand the significance of the Federal Reserve's independence in monetary policy.

“This is about whether the Fed will be able to continue to set interest rates based on evidence and economic conditions, or whether instead monetary policy will be directed by political pressure or intimidation.”

The Future of the Federal Reserve

16:28 to 17:01

Discuss the potential future control of the Federal Reserve by Trump.

“But not yet, not without a fight about the independence of it all.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

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3:12Popok:The headline should read, Federal Reserve Chairman Jay Powell tells Donald Trump to get his hands off the Federal Reserve and its independence for the second time in the last two weeks. Jay Powell speaking to the American public, speaking to the market, speaking to the global economy and our allies has told them, don't worry for as long as I'm here as the chairman, I'm not going to allow Donald Trump to influence the Fed's independence. That's the only thing. That's the only thing that's keeping this Trump economy from burning up in the atmosphere is the stewardship, the navigation methods of Jay Powell and the rest of the Federal Reserve.

3:50Popok:Donald Trump's tried to attack Jay Powell, including opening a criminal investigation into a building renovation, going after Lisa Cook got stopped and stymied there by the United States Supreme Court, all in an effort to try to get his hands on our money supply. And if that happens, God help us. And thank God for whoever you pray or don't pray to that Jay Jay Powell is not going anywhere. I'm Michael Popok, using my Wall Street superpowers to bring it all together with you here about the Trump-anomics, which in the last 48 hours has showed its true colors. You're here on the Midas Touch Network and on Legal AF.

4:27Popok:Take a moment and hit the subscribe buttons in both channels. You know, Jay Powell, you got to go light a candle for Jay Powell every day. And now look at the numbers that he, the turbulence created by Donald Trump that Jay Powell has to navigate through. With the only thing at his disposal, which is his calm demeanor, his brilliant economics and economic sense, and his ability to control interest rates. He just decided, along with the rest of the Federal Reserve Open Markets Committee, 12 members, a majority, not to do anything about rates. He's worried about hyperinflation and superinflation, higher prices for you, and he should be.

5:06Popok:Consumer confidence numbers, I've never seen these numbers. Well, nobody's ever seen these numbers for 14 years. You got to go back to 2012 and well before COVID to find the consumers as worried about and deciding to close up their purses and checkbooks and bank accounts and not spend. And that's a problem because our economy, the gross domestic product, a large portion of it is driven. One of the major engines, think of it as a twin engine plane, one of the major engines is consumer spending. And the Consumer Confidence Index is a measure of whether people are going to continue to spend through 2026.

5:41Popok:And these numbers are worse than COVID. Can you believe it? People sitting around their houses, scared out of their minds, wearing triple masks, were spending more, had more confidence in the economy than they do right now under Donald Trump's stewardship. Is there any wonder the poll numbers are so bad against Donald Trump in terms of the economy? He's underwater 30 points when it comes to favorable, unfavorable on how he's handling the economy. 35 points on affordability, which is a key issue for the Democrats. Now, what is in the polling of consumer confidence that Jay Powell and the Federal Reserve are looking at?

6:15Popok:This is what's coming up in the survey. Worry and instability about tariffs, about trade, about health insurance, about war, about affordability, about groceries, electricity and gas. and remember those signs that were up at one point or people put up on social media because they thought they were being snarky and funny about I miss Donald Trump, I miss cheap gas and mean tweets. Well, you're still getting the mean tweets but say goodbye to the cheap gas because in the last 24 hours we just had the report that oil has now dramatically skyrocketed. A barrel of oil is now up to$70 to put it in perspective.

6:53Popok:It was$58 in December. Remember, that's a$12 increase. We're up over 3 % already, which means you're going to pay more at the pump. I thought that's why people voted for Donald Trump. They wanted to see lower grocery prices, lower gas prices, and they blame the Biden administration for not doing it fast enough. It's worse under the Trump administration, and we all know it, and we all know it. So oil up, why? Because Donald Trump is saber-rattling again, trying to flex whatever muscle he thinks he has against Iran. Iran, last chance, I'm sending in the USS Abraham Lincoln. I'm going to take you guys out.

7:30Popok:And Iran fired back and said, if you strike us again, we're going to retaliate in a way that you can't even contemplate. I'm putting it nicely. And the oil traders are freaking out of what it's going to do to the oil market. So when you take over the Venezuelan oil fields, just so everybody knows, it didn't lead to a drop in oil prices. when you threaten Iran, you just destabilize the oil markets and oil is skyrocketing. Pain at the pump for you and me, courtesy of the president of the United States. How about the U.S. dollar? How's that doing? Not great. Whenever you hear about gold and gold price, people flooding into gold and gold now at record prices we've never seen twice, three times what it was a year or two ago, that is because people are looking for a safe haven.

8:20Popok:They don't believe in government-issued currency. They don't believe in the U.S. dollar. The dollar is down 2%. Again, one of the lowest, the weakest dollars we've ever seen. And that's not helping. You'd think it would at least be helping imports and exports, people buying products, right? No. I thought the whole reason for the April Rose Garden Summit about Liberation Day and to put 200 tariffs, meaning taxes on you and me, on countries around the world, including most of our or all of our allies. I thought that was to fix the trade deficit, the difference between what we sell out, export, and what we buy in, import.

9:00Popok:Nope. Export, import's now about the worst number in the last year. It flipped upside down. It doubled. So the amount of our exports, the amount that we're selling out of the country of our goods and services, agriculture, those kind of things, is down 4%. Imports, the things we're buying are up. People are like, well, what about the tariffs? Yeah, because the people who are supplying the incoming goods figured out a way to beat the tariffs, let's be frank. Through logistics, they bring it into different ports with different ships with different flags. So they figured out a way to beat it. Our allies figured out a way.

9:36Popok:And why are exports down? Because who's buying from us right now? We went after and attacked and demoralized and defamed our major trading partner, Canada, our major trading partner, Mexico, our major trading partner, EU, the economic union. When you take the economic union and you take Canada and you take Mexico out, I'm surprised the export drop isn't higher than 4%. I feel like I'm constantly compromising on comfort. I'll take a long flight for a getaway, Wake up early for a workout or stand around for hours just to get the best spot at a concert. We give up comfort every day. Don't let style be another reason.

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11:48Popok:That's M-A-C-K-W-E-L-D-O-N.com, code LEGALAF. F. See, the beauty of the American economy when it was in the hands of an adult, not somebody who's erratic and mentally failing, is that it produces more than the American consumer can use. That's a good thing. If we produce more, the American consumer cannot consume all of the services and AI and technology, agriculture and goods, you know, retail and, you know, manufacturing things that the U.S. economy produces. We need foreign markets. We need our allies to buy from us. We don't need Canada doing deals with China. We don't need Mexico turning its back on us.

12:35Popok:And that's the impact. So a dirty little secret of the tariff program that the Supreme Court is likely to tear down is that we're doing worse on import and export. Then we turn to we got the dollar down, oil up. And now the Federal Reserve has looked at everything and said, yeah, we're not going to lower interest rates again. We've done it three times in a row. We're worried about inflation. But the independence of the Federal Reserve and Jay Powell is the fight here. So here's Jay Powell talking about the independence of the Federal Reserve. Let's play it. The point of independence is not to protect policymakers or anything like that.

13:16It just is that every advanced economy democracy in the world has come around to this common practice. It's just an institutional arrangement that is that is served the people well. And that is to have a separation between to not have direct elected official control over the setting of monetary policy. And the reason is that monetary policy can be used through an election cycle to affect the economy in a way that will be politically worthwhile. So this isn't I'm not talking about the U.S. context. This is every advanced economy democracy of any size. So it's a good practice. It's pretty much everywhere among countries that look at all like the United States.

13:59And I think if you lose that, first of all, it would be hard to restore the credibility of the institution if people lose their faith that we're making decisions only on the basis of our assessment of what's best for everyone, for the wide public, rather than trying to benefit one group or another. If you lose that, it's going to be hard to retain it. And we haven't lost it. I don't believe we will. I certainly hope we won't. But it's very important. And the reason it's important is that it's enabled central banks generally not to be perfect, but to serve the public well.

14:35Popok:Now, this is the second time that Jay Powell has fought back against Trump administration. Three weeks ago, we saw a late night video where, again, Jay Powell came out swinging after it leaked that there was a criminal investigation against the Fed and against him because they're renovating 200 year old buildings and they're running they're running they're running over budget. No surprise. After after covid, there's something called, you know, increase in supply chain costs related to construction, you know, and the rest. And so he fought back. Remember that video clip? Let's play that. On Friday, the Department of Justice served the Federal Reserve with grand jury subpoenas, threatening a criminal indictment related to my testimony before the Senate Banking Committee last June.

15:22That testimony concerned, in part, a multi-year project to renovate historic Federal Reserve office buildings. But this unprecedented action should be seen in the broader context of the administration's threats and ongoing pressure. The threat of criminal charges is a consequence of the Federal Reserve setting interest rates based on our best assessment of what will serve the public, rather than following the preferences of the President. This is about whether the Fed will be able to continue to set interest rates based on evidence and economic conditions, or whether instead monetary policy will be directed by political pressure or intimidation.

15:59Public service sometimes requires standing firm in the face of threats. I will continue to do the job the Senate confirmed me to do, with integrity and a commitment to serving the American people.

16:12Popok:So we have the extraordinary situation where the outgoing Federal Reserve chairman who's leaving in three months is telling the public, is telling the Supreme Court, is telling the world, don't give up on the American economy. This madman will be out at some point and I'm not going to give up on the independence of the Federal Reserve and give him the ability to oust people he doesn't like. Now, eventually, Trump may get enough seats on the Federal Reserve's seven-seat board of governors to take control of the Federal Reserve, fire all of the Federal Reserve regional president, bank presidents, and get control of interest rates.

16:53But not yet, not without a fight about the independence of it all.

16:58Popok:So we'll continue to follow it here on the Midas Touch Network on Legal AF. Thanks for helping us build our sub-stack community for Legal AF and our Legal AF YouTube community. So until my next report, I'm Michael Popak. Can't get your fill of Legal AF? Me neither. That's why we formed the Legal AF Substack. Every time we mention something in a hot take, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument, come over to the Substack. You'll find the court filing and the oral argument there, including a daily roundup that I do call, wait for it, Morning AF. What else? All the other contributors from Legal AF are there as well.

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From the publisher

With only 90 days to go on his term as Fed Chair, Jay Powell once again, in a public speech, told Trump, “hands off” the Federal Reserve’s independence! Popok puts on his Wall Street hat to look at the dire Trump Economy numbers for the last 48 hours, with the skyrocketing oil prices, plummeting consumer confidence and US dollar, increasing Trade Deficit, and a Fed Reserve trying desperately to navigate the turbulence and save the Economy from Trump’s erratic policies.

Mack Weldon: Go to https://mackweldon.com and get 20% off your first order of $125 or more, with promo code LEGALAF.

Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts:

MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast

Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af

MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial

The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast

Cult Conversations: The Influence Continuum with Dr. Steve Hassan: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan

The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show

Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats

Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54

On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman

Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered
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