In short
The episode argues that Donald Trump’s claims of “massive” non-citizen voter fraud are exaggerated and contradicted by Nevada Secretary of State Cisco Aguilar after a DHS Zoom call. Topic includes DHS using the SAVE (Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements) database to flag non-citizens on voter rolls, DHS threats to prosecute election officials, and claims that DOJ/civil-rights staff are election-deniers.
Key claims
flagged numbers drop from tens of thousands to 185 in Nevada (not proof of votes), fraud is not outcome-determinative, and “monitoring” threats are limited by distance rules and lawsuits.
Notable examples
Trump’s “278,000” speech; DHS head Mark Wayne Mullen; DOJ civil-rights attorney Harmeet Dillon; election-denier Heather Honey; and a 23-judge string rejecting federal attempts to seize voter data. Guests mentioned: Cisco Aguilar; Mark Elias; Harmeet Dillon; Heather Honey (named); plus planned interviews with Kristen Clark and Senator Adam Schiff.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VODebunking Trump's Voter Fraud Claims
0:00 to 1:15
Learn about the debunking of Trump's claims regarding non-citizens on voter rolls.
“Remember that Trump claimed that there were approximately 300 ,000 non-citizens registered to vote in four different states, including Nevada and New Jersey?”
The Impact of Election Monitors
1:15 to 2:59
Understand the role and limitations of election monitors in the voting process.
“First of all, it doesn't mean 185 non-citizens voted.”
Examining Trump's Allegations of Election Fraud
2:59 to 5:55
Explore Trump's allegations of widespread voter fraud and the sources behind them.
“He said it was the biggest mistake of his life.”
Scrutiny of Election Officials and Accountability
5:55 to 9:38
Learn about the accountability of election officials as discussed by Trump and the DHS.
“Finally, to reveal just how vulnerable our elections continue to be, we are releasing the results of a stunning investigation by the Department of Homeland Security.”
The Reality of Voter Fraud Statistics
9:38 to 11:08
Discuss the statistical reality of voter fraud and its political implications.
“In response, one of my favorite election officials, the Secretary of State, which I'm inviting him to come on, of Nevada, Mr.”
Mobilizing for Voter Participation
11:08 to 12:00
Highlighting efforts to encourage voter participation amid fraud allegations.
“They want you to think you're worthless and your vote is worthless.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Michael Popok:Remember that Trump claimed that there were approximately 300 ,000 non-citizens registered to vote in four different states, including Nevada and New Jersey? Remember that claim just about a month ago? Well, it turns out, according to the words of Nevada's Secretary of State, Cisco Aguilar, that that is utter and complete bullshit. Yep, those are his words. And those are some of the milder words he's using after having a virtual Zoom call with the Department of Homeland Security. You know, that same department that forgot they're not the Department of Justice and threatened to prosecute election officials if they didn't comply with the voter roll issue.
0:39Michael Popok:This after 23 different judges in a row have voted against, under the law and the Constitution, the attempt to steal voter data by the federal government. And now you've got the revelation that they have to admit, the Department of Homeland Security, that even in Nevada, where they said there were tens of thousands of people who were registered to vote who were not citizens, they said over 16 ,000 in Nevada alone, it's down to 185. It's down to not outcome determinative of an election. First of all, it doesn't mean 185 non-citizens voted. It meant they're on the voter rolls. There's still the opportunity for the Department of Elections, Supervisor of Elections, the voter precinct, and after the election for there to be a prosecution because that person still has to come forward, still has to either show ID or swear under penalty of perjury that they are a citizen and able to vote, subjecting them to criminal prosecution.
1:49Michael Popok:That's the way we've always handled people that want to lie to vote. I don't know who would want to do that. Hey, what are you in for? Oh, I voted twice. Or I'm a non-citizen. I got my own problems, but I decided I wanted to vote as well. But this latest revelation that has been revealed by Cisco Aguilar in an interview with our friends at Democracy Docket is shocking. I'm going to cover it right here. You're on Monday to kick off Legal AF. I think later this week I'm going to get Mark Elias from Democracy Docket back on with me to talk about all the cases he's handling. He's 23-0 against the government.
2:26Michael Popok:We've got Harmeet Dillon, who's been trying out to be the attorney general. And when that failed, she wants to be the number two in the office behind Todd Blanche. And when she's not doing that, she's completely dismantling the legacy of the Civil Rights Division. She just swore in 100 new civil rights attorneys. That sounds interesting, except when you find out at least one of them is not only an election denier, but is somebody who was caught in 2016 and charged with felonies for hacking into election equipment. He said it was the biggest mistake of his life. OK, but he's now in the Department of Justice Civil Rights Division assigned to voting issues.
3:08Michael Popok:Talk about the jail now becoming the jailers. So, you know, when I hear Harmeet Dillard say, there's going to be a thousand people from the Department of Justice doing election monitoring just to try to scare the crap out of us, I'm not scared of that. First of all, there are laws on the books that require election monitors to be 100 feet from a polling place. So they're not going to be able to kind of sit in the room while you're voting and just stare at you. It's just judges are going to enforce the law and keep them away. Now, I have been an election monitor for the last four presidential elections.
3:47Michael Popok:Sometimes I'm in the precinct because I am a registered voter in that precinct or in that state, and I can be in the room. Department of Justice can't. Law enforcement can't. or I stand outside if I'm like when I lived in New York, but I wanted to come to Florida when Joe Biden was running to make sure there was no hanky-panky in Florida and in Miami, I had to stay outside. I wasn't authorized to go inside. So when you hear Harmeet Dillon talk about a thousand Gestapo DOJ that are going to be like bootjacked and coming into the precinct group, they're not. They are going to be barred and banned by local officials, secretaries of state and lawsuits that are going to be filed instantaneously by the 24 Democratic attorneys general and other organizations.
4:45Michael Popok:So, you know, that's more of a scare tactic. Let's get to who can forget Trump just about a month ago. this is when he gave his big speech that none of the networks really wanted to follow, in which he said there are 278 ,000 people, not citizens, in four states that we caught. First of all, how did they catch it? Well, apparently, there's this database they've always had called the Systemic Alien Verification for Entitlements. Systemic Alien Verification for Entitlements, SAVE, S-A-V-E, database. And it looks like they've sort of retrofitted it to try to use it. It was used to make sure that how non-citizens, whether they were entitled to entitlements or not, to benefits or not.
5:39Michael Popok:But now it's being used to figure out whether they can vote. And there's a lot of gaps in that process, especially when they're not able to get the voter rolls from 23 states that are blue as of right now. So that's how we know they did it. But here's a clip of Trump talking about the 278 ,000. Play it. Finally, to reveal just how vulnerable our elections continue to be, we are releasing the results of a stunning investigation by the Department of Homeland Security. According to the DHS review, state voter rolls and public records, they identified approximately 278 ,000 non-citizens who are registered to vote in federal elections.
6:21Since Democrat states refuse to share their voter files, the real number is actually much higher than that. Yet, even this limited analysis found more than a quarter of a million foreigners illegally registered to vote. Put together, these disclosures reveal an election system so broken and so vulnerable that no one can possibly defend it. It is not defensible. Hundreds of millions of U.S. voter files are in the hands of foreign governments. Our machines and ballot counting systems are exposed to hacking and manipulation and corruption. China and other countries have been trying to meddle in our elections.
7:06Evidence of fraud has been buried. Hundreds of thousands of non-citizens and dead people are listed and active on the voter rolls. And yet we still have elections with no voter ID, no proof of citizenship, and tens of millions of ballots floating aimlessly through the mail.
7:26Michael Popok:And then right on cue, Mark Wayne Mullen. Remember him? He took over for puppy killer, Kristi Noem to be the Department of Homeland Security's head after being a plumber. I think he was a plumber before. I'm not knocking professions and occupations like plumber, but that was his tryout for the job. And he said, not only is he going to, not only is he relying on that number, but he is going to, remember this one? He's going to prosecute, prosecute From the Department of Homeland Security vantage point, he's going to prosecute election officials in 50 states if he has to who don't comply with the demands by the Department of Justice to turn over their data.
8:04Mark Wayne, you're the Department of Homeland Security.
8:07Michael Popok:You can't prosecute anybody. Play that clip. When we start talking about can we ensure that the midterm elections are going to be secure? Yes, we absolutely can build confidence in the American people. But the states have to do their part. I will tell you, if the states that choose not to participate with the SAVE program and they choose not to participate in securing the elections, we will make sure that we make those states a priority to look at who voted in their states and hold then the election officials accountable. If the election officials, once we gave them the information they need to secure their elections and they chose not to, then those individuals can also be held accountable by fines, by penalties, and even, depending on how far it goes, prison time.
8:58Michael Popok:Even election deniers who are inside the Trump administration, like Heather Honey. I'm not making these names up. I know it sounds like a novel, a poorly written one at that, but this is her name. Heather Honey, who worked under other election deniers like Cleta Mitchell in creating the Election Integrity Network, is now an election integrity conspiracy theorist working for the Department of Homeland Security. And here's what she had to say. She said about her boss, we would not have the statutory authority to charge an election official. We don't do enforcement of those laws. In response, one of my favorite election officials, the Secretary of State, which I'm inviting him to come on, of Nevada, Mr.
9:47Michael Popok:Cisco Aguilar, he said, I'm not scared of these fuckers. I love Nevada for so many reasons. And certainly, this plain spokenness is one of my favorites. So look, what's the boil away? There is a, within a margin of error, very infinitesimal group of people every year who vote against the law. There just is. But it's usually 0.0001%. I'm not making it up. It's like four zeros and a one. So it's not nothing. And when you're talking about, you know, 100 million people voting, it's a number. I get it. But it's not outcome determinative. No federal election, even if it comes down to the wire, has ever been determined by, you know, an extra vote by an alien who is not, you know, an illegal alien who's not registered properly to vote because they're not a citizen.
10:49Michael Popok:It doesn't happen. So the reason that the Republicans are trying to create this giant voter fraud machine is because they're trying to take away your right to vote. They want to scare the crap out of you or the bullshit out of you, as Mr. Aguilar would put it. They want you to stay home. They want you to think you're worthless and your vote is worthless. And it'll be really hard to vote. So don't do it. It's like those fraudsters that call you up and try to convince you the election day is the prior Tuesday or the next Tuesday to get you to stay home. They're trying to create in your mind barriers to entry to voting, and we can't allow them to do that.
11:32Michael Popok:That's why groups like Democracy Forward and Legal AF and ACLU and NAACP are out there working overtime to make sure you understand that your path to voting is clear. and that there will be nothing. And we'll try to lower the barriers as low as possible coming into the midterms, early voting, absentee voting, mail-in voting, and the rest. Programming note coming up this week, I'm going to be interviewing again Kristen Clark, who used to be the head of the Civil Rights Division and prior administrations, now the general counsel for the NAACP. I want her to catch us up on some of these voting issues as well.
12:16Michael Popok:And I'll get Mark Elias of Democracy Docket and also of his own law firm, the Mark Elias Group, who's out there doing these voter cases on to brief our audience in real time about what is happening and up through the United States Supreme Court on mail-in ballots. I'm also working on getting Senator Schiff from California, an arch critic of Donald Trump, of course, and a supporter of making sure your right to vote is not taken away to come on the show. I think it's going to be this week as well. So I'm glad you're here. Take a minute, hit the free subscribe button. Let's kick off Monday with a bang.
12:55Michael Popok:Hit that free subscribe button. And until my next report, in about an hour, I'm Michael Popak.
13:12Michael Popok:You'll find the court filing and the oral argument there, including a daily roundup that I do call. Wait for it. Morning AF. What else? All the other contributors from Legal AF are there as well. We got some new reporting. We got interviews. We got ad free versions of the podcast and hot takes. Where? Legal AF on Substack. Come over now to free subscribe.
From the publisher
Popok reports on a once private zoom call between Dept. of Homeland Security Officials and Nevada's Sec of State, in which the Trump Administration CONFESSED that they don't have "16,000" noncitizens on Nevada's voter rolls as Trump claimed, they have 185, leading Nevada's Sec of State to call "Bullshit!"
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