Trump Panics as Jack Smith Readies to Testify About His Crimes to the Senate

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1:21Michael Popok:Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. Welcome to a special edition of Legal AF, Trump versus the free press. And what are the current results and what is Judge Kelly doing in his courtroom? Did Judge Kelly just inadvertently bail Donald Trump out from a disastrous decision to cut the fee to the White House 40 days before the midterms? Is Donald Trump secretly thanking Judge Kelly for blocking his ripping away the hard passes for White House people?

1:59Michael Popok:who showed up for work one day and were blocked from CNN, MSNOW, and Politico. Maybe. It may explain why there's no appeal having been taken, why they seem to be living with the decision, the China dinner last night notwithstanding. Then we got the new reporting about Jack Smith being called before a Senate Judiciary Committee that's dominated by Republicans to find out why during his election interference and other prosecutions, he only interviewed Republicans. He only focused on Republicans. I got a pretty good idea why that is. And some other things about what happens and what's at stake at the midterm election when the Democrats inevitably get the gavel in places like the Senate and House Judiciary Committee.

2:41Michael Popok:Who's better to bounce this around with than Scott McFarlane, Midas' White House and Washington Bureau Chief? And welcome. Welcome to Legal AF. Thanks for being here again. So as soon as I started, you know, covering what was happening in Judge Kelly's courtroom and how quickly, of course, as we all predicted, the three media outlets would run to him for an emergency hearing. We sort of knew what was going to happen, right? 2018, this is 2018 all over again. Fifth Amendment analysis, due process has been violated because property and liberty interest taken away from these media outlets. And I'll say for another day, preliminary injunction day, the First Amendment.

3:21Michael Popok:Talk about what you're seeing from the media standpoint and from your standpoint in terms of Donald Trump's calculations. Somebody told him he could do this, meaning the Department of Justice. He got a wild hair that this was the right moment in time to block the media and turn on and light up Trump TV, which literally no one is watching. What happened from a political and factual standpoint? And then what happened with Judge Kelly going forward? We'll start with the politics. There seems to be no impracticality loss for these media organizations. They may have been sampled more during the blackout period.

4:04There may have been more people pursuing the information of Politico, MSNOW, and CNN based on the notoriety Trump gave them and the unique relevance Trump gave them by banning them. There are a lot of journalists across the country who would love to be banned by powerful figures because all it will do is galvanize an audience they otherwise wouldn't have. So in practicality, I'm not sure if the media was adversely impacted by this, but in principle, they very much are. I mean, you can't have a president, a leader unilaterally kicking people out because it sets a terrible precedent. It's wildly undemocratic.

4:36It's not at all in the spirit or the letter of the law of the First Amendment. And it just can't be. Politics of this for Trump. I don't know where he is with his base at this moment in time. His approval numbers are in the toilet, but perhaps he can mobilize, fire up some of the MAGA faithful by picking a fight with media. I'm pretty sure the MAGA faithful are on board already, but maybe they're less inclined to vote right now due to the many crises going on. So maybe there's a political benefit there. But with the people who will decide battleground elections in battleground districts from Arizona to Pennsylvania to Michigan to North Carolina, I don't know that the president looks like he has his eye on the ball.

5:17They know what the problems are. They know what's driving their votes, and it's not media scrutiny. It's not media criticism. It's prices. So there's a political downside as well. what happened in Judge Kelly's court. So this is a very temporary thing. This is like a snooze button on an alarm. It's going to go off again. All Judge Kelly did was say for two weeks, everybody goes back to the White House and we'll figure out the rest in time. This is a delay, not an end to the media ban. And that's not insignificant, Michael, because the president's going to have to decide between now and October 7th when Judge Kelly's temporary order lapses whether he wants to keep up this fight.

5:58Does he want to keep fighting against these media organizations knowing that there may be a little bit of political upside with the MAGA faithful, but he's also blacking himself out. He's depriving himself of the oxygen which sustains him, media coverage. At a moment when he thinks he's the party's best messenger, he thinks for certain he is, and he has less of a platform to get out the message when the cameras aren't there.

6:22Michael Popok:Yeah, I mean, you put it so perfectly. I think it was a major miscalculation by him. I think you're right. He tried to pick the fight to energize the base. Although I was going to joke when you mentioned the word base, I'm not familiar with that word when it comes to Donald Trump. What is left of that base? And you're right in terms of he can't win on his base alone, which has completely been shattered and is circling the drain right now. We see the polling numbers, we see what they look like. But if he feels like even the base of 25 or 30%, he's got to give him something, some sort of red meat to get them to the polls.

6:53Michael Popok:Look at the transaction costs. Like you said, completely blacked out. And no, turning on Trump TV, which we figured out with its 3 million subscribers, but with its 400 views per video, comes out to 0.076 % of people watching that are actually subscribed there. So no, people were like, well, I saw him shake hands with the Chinese. Yeah, they had like one video camera from Hearst Television or whatever. That does not make up for the pool video apparatus that was cut, including supported by Fox, where I think he miscalculated. He thought Fox wouldn't cut the feed. They did cut the feed. And, you know, it's just, I'm just such a set of head scratchers, Scott.

7:39Michael Popok:You're 40 days, 39 days away from the midterms. Is this the time to throw millions of people off of Obamacare? Is this the time to have a self-imposed blackout of your own media and your own coverage? I just don't understand it. Well, there are a number of Republican nominees who are subtly, perhaps too subtly for their own good, trying to distance themselves from the president with just weeks remaining until the election. That's actually typical politics. If you have an incumbent in a second term, in the midterms, you're going to have people in his own party trying to get away because the wave tends to form in the other direction.

8:17Not platforming Trump will help those Republican nominees get away from Trump. He's less in the public space. He's less in your face like he always is when he's not omnipresent on television and on your phones. So that may benefit some Republicans. But I think the fact that Republicans are trying to distance themselves is the more interesting part of the conversation. They do it in a way that's so Trumpian. They won't criticize him by name. They won't reference him by name, thinking this will keep them in his good graces, even when they're criticizing the war. Policies on gas and diesel, policies involving the cutting of federal benefits for people at a time of high prices.

8:55And just as the week concluded, we saw more candidates, more nominees scrub Trump from their webpages. Take his picture off. Scrub, scrub, scrub. Jay Feely is the first district Republican nominee in Arizona. A few weeks ago, there was a big old MAGA hat Trump side by side with Jay Feeley on the homepage. That's gone. It's just Jay Feeley alone now holding a microphone. That's not subtle. That's not subtle. That's pretty clear. But that's about as far as they're willing to go.

9:24Michael Popok:How about Byron Donaldson in Florida, which is becoming purpley by every passing moment? I went on his website recently. I wouldn't even know he was a Trump supporter by what I'm reading there. part of that is a natural rhythm to politics some of this stuff is happened before trump some of this will happen after distancing yourself from an unpopular incumbent is as old as politics itself but this is always different with trump because he has this cult-like way where you have to be 100 loyal 100 of the time or he'll try to end you let's see how he carries this after the elections with some of these people who try to distance themselves if they win are they now out of trump's good graces?

10:05Are they no longer able to get an audience with him to get help from him? Will he name check them? Will he criticize them? These are all in the realm of possibility. I'd be really interested how a Governor Donald gets in terms of reaction from Trump on November 4th, if he somehow wins.

10:22Michael Popok:And you say, rightly so, that they're trying to run away from him. The problem is he's gang tackling them because he won't let them run away from him. It's like, I'm trying to think of a metaphor. It's like a rabid St. Bernard in the Alps that continues to attack the skier, the fallen skier and won't let him go. That's the love that never speaks its name. He won't let them go. It's I'm on the ballot. It's me. Run on my record. Even though the beginning of the campaign, the Democrat strategists were like, how do we tie? Trump's not really on the ballot. How do we tie him to the ballot? Trump did it for him.

11:03Michael Popok:I'm on the ballot. Just act like I'm on the ballot. Thank you. That made it so much easier. So here's the question for you as we move forward. What are you hearing in your world here on Capitol Hill and moving around about the strategy that the, that's a bad term, that whatever they're doing, the Republicans are doing to try to avoid the bloodbath of the Democrats taking over the House and the Senate. As you said, there's 435 races in the House. Only about 30, probably less than that, are competitive. The rest are sort of in the bag already. Is Donald Trump spending any of that $150 or$200 million PAC money?

11:47Michael Popok:Is he planning to do anything other than going to football games to help try to get people elected? Because this is not Trump, a younger Trump eight years ago. This is an 80-year-old guy that seems bored with his job unless it involves, you know, gluing gold to something in the White House. I got a lot of great answers for you to those questions. But first, let's just take a moment and appreciate that you had the rabid St. Bernard in the Alps. There's so many, so many wonderful parts of that analogy, but I wanted you to know that you took it to the next level and I appreciated that. So what's the strategy?

12:20To distance yourself or to find some way to get rid of this weight around your shoulders if you're a Republican incumbent? Well, some of this is going to be in how you present yourself visually in addition to politically. I've noticed a few statewide or high-level Republican nominees who are now all of a sudden showing a lot of images of themselves carrying groceries in their commercials. Mike Rogers of Michigan, now in a grocery store in his latest set of ads. Ryan Elijah, who's running for a battleground race in Florida, carrying groceries in from the car in his latest ad. Tom Tiffany in Wisconsin sitting down at a lunch table, eating the food, talking about prices in his latest ad.

13:00You can see there that is a non-Trumpian message. That is not a MAGA message. That is not necessarily a message of one party. They're trying to get right with voters who've been pretty clear for months now. $4 a loaf bread,$8 a patty hamburgers are not going to fly in America in 2026, and something's got to be done. So there's that. But the outside money you referenced, which is like a rabid St. Bernard on the Alps, is all over the place. It's spinning in circles. There's tons of it out there. It's going in all kinds of directions without predictability, but it's all coming in late. There are Republican operatives who say, if you're going to start spending a boatload of money in October, you have missed the party.

13:41You are late for the party and you're spending after some people have gone home already. Voting's already started in Virginia, Vermont, Minnesota, Michigan. and political messages have already been baked in. You think the people of Maine haven't seen enough ads already and that a late wave of money is going to change their minds on things? Sure, there's a few persuadables in the 11th hour, but a half billion dollars is not exactly the tool you want to use to convince the final people.

14:08Michael Popok:And ad buys have already been made. I mean, it's very hard. What do you know, 4 o 'clock in the morning after the Geritol commercial? I mean, when are you going to shove this ad in? And does he have, and this is rhetorical, Does he have the oomph, the enthusiasm, the energy level to go out and hump it for these candidates? And back to our original point, is that helpful? How is that helpful to have him next to a candidate who's struggling against a very vibrant Democratic candidate in a toss-up district? Does he have the oomph? Well, if he takes the Geritol at 4 a.m., he's got a better shot at that, Michael.

14:47That's why you have the Geritol commercials, to get it to people who need a little more oomph. His most immediate campaign stops will be in Oklahoma and in Alabama. Now, those states do have races. There's a gubernatorial race in Alabama. There are races for Congress, obviously, in Oklahoma. None of them is viewed to be competitive or battleground races. So his value in those states is limited, I think, because he's not necessarily a mover of people. Because they're already moved in Alabama and Oklahoma. He's got them. Why not go to Arizona, where there are multiple competitive house races that could flip?

15:25There are also multiple competitive house races that could flip. In Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania's got four that could flip. Maybe his time's better spent there. Well, that kind of answers itself, doesn't it? He may weigh people down. I think he knows that. I think his political team can be honest with him about that, because that would explain why he's not going to northeastern Pennsylvania or southwestern Michigan, where there are endangered Republicans who perhaps could use some help.

15:52Michael Popok:Yeah, and stay in a way. And then brief our audience here on what you're hearing about if the Democrats get the gavel and they are in charge of like the Judiciary Committee, House and Senate, what's on their agenda? What are they going to do? Well, the House Oversight Committee has been uniquely active, both parties really, but Democrats in particular on the Epstein files. I would expect when the gavels come and subpoenas come, it will begin with Epstein-related players. The committee has formed some type of mandate on itself by driving this issue in the minority. If they get the majority, they have a responsibility, it would seem, to keep going and perhaps issue the subpoenas that they've been frustrated have not been issued yet.

16:36We'll start there. In the Senate Judiciary Committee, they're going to want to look at Trump's pardons and what seems to be a pardon scheme where the very wealthy, the very connected, those who seem to hire consultants or lobbyists get pardons, and those who went through the traditional system of submitting a pardon application to a nonpartisan civil servant, that system's gone. That system may not come back for a while. The Senate is very keen on investigating that, including if some people were making money either illicitly or unlawfully through the pardon scheme. I also talked with Dick Durbin, who's standing down.

17:07He's retiring as the

17:14type of investigation into the slush fund and the other Trump funnels of money that have gone either to his friends, his political supporters, or to his family. You better believe both the House and Senate are going to look at Trump family enrichment. That'll be a top priority as well.

17:29Michael Popok:Even things that are so below the radar that only you and I and others are following it, like what looked to be, well, Donald Trump's against wind turbines. So there's a$2 billion dollar check he's going to cut back to the french to because he he uh he ended their program but then beneath the surface he's requiring them to take that two billion dollars and invest it in something that his family and others close to him have a stake in it would be quite something to have a more robust resilient renewable energy source right now with diesel at seven dollars a gallon wouldn't it and these disin this disinvestment from renewable energies clean technologies and climate change resilience, these are things that are going to define the 2027-2028 political primary seasons for president.

18:18Are Democrats going to explicitly and outwardly try to not only stop the grift and the payouts to VIPs and friends and family, but also to get after restarting things that can make us less dependent on fossil fuels? Trump campaigned unequivocally, without apology, to being the coal president, the oil, the drill baby drill president. And people responded to that in 2024 as part of the mandate he came in with. But we are now paying$6.50 for diesel, and we have storms stronger than anything we've seen before hitting parts of our country, including this weekend. This is going to be a resurgence or an opportunity, Michael, for a resurgence of the climate change movement.

18:57And the Democratic candidates for the nomination in 2028 are going to figure out amongst themselves and their electorate how strong a position they want to take on those things.

19:07Michael Popok:Absolutely. And what's your reporting showing for who takes over the gavel for Senate Judiciary? Sheldon Whitehouse? So some of this gets tricky because they bounce around and they jockey for posts. Sheldon Whitehouse is certainly among those who could do it. I think there's always an eyeing of other gavels too. The Senate chairmanships are an absolute hoot because they happen so cloak and dagger and so covertly. You don't see things coming until they show up. But I think that's a good bet. Yeah. Or Blumenthal probably would want it maybe sort of kind of. I'd love Cory Booker to get it. So I just love watching him.

19:45It would look like Mike Lee as the Republican. And Mike Lee is not your, sorry, whatever, whatever, whatever comes up for an average Republican right now. Mike Lee is not it. Whatever it is, it's not Mike Lee. That would be a provocative person to lead the agenda for the Senate Judiciary Committee if Republicans keep the majority. Yeah.

20:02Michael Popok:And what are you hearing over in the House? So Jamie Raskin, his position as the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee is safe and he is already making plans. He told me, you don't wait until the election to start making plans. He has been like that dog in the Alps. He has been rabid on the issue of emoluments on Trump family, taking money, securing money for itself, earning money through the presidency, which is an anti-constitutional, an unconstitutional notion. I think that's going to be a top priority for him. Totally agree. Even things like what is the real relationship between Donald Trump and FIFA and Gianni Infantino?

20:44Michael Popok:And what is it is their corruption, which we all believe there is, and a quid pro quo in that in that world of international, you know, international football. all. And let's end it with, Scott, this Jack Smith testimony next week. He's agreed to appear the Senate Judiciary Committee led by the Republicans, chaired by Senator Grassley. I mean, they have let it be known exactly what they're going to be doing. They're going to get to the bottom of why Republicans were targeted by Jack Smith in his prosecution. What do you expect to happen there? It's a big break for Jack Smith. He's the one who's been pushing to testify publicly.

21:22He has been inviting himself saying, if you want to ask me questions, ask me questions in a public forum and let's have it out under oath before the American people so that I can't be edited or clipped or taken out of context or misrepresented. A lot of these witnesses prefer to do their business behind closed doors so that they don't have the scrutiny of the fishbowl. Jack Smith wants the scrutiny of the fishbowl because he doesn't want to be lied about. So he's been pushing for this and this is a break for Jack Smith. Republicans have made the argument, and they've made it repeatedly over the last few months, that they believe Jack Smith went too far with his investigation of Trump's attempts to overturn an election and hoard classified records unlawfully.