10/06/2026: Live from Relativity Fest 2026, eDiscovery and AI

0:00All right. So as, just to get going here, My name is Bob Ambroji, and what you are seeing here is a group of people who gets together every Friday afternoon, usually on Zoom. We have a live program called Legal Tech Week, and we put it up afterwards on YouTube and as a podcast. And we just got to talk about what happened that week in Legal Tech and Legal Innovation. You can find us, as I said, go to YouTube and search for Legal Tech Week. The show is up there every Friday. I'm recording this one today and we'll post this in lieu of our live show tomorrow and we've done this a couple of other times here at Relativity Fest.

0:41As a matter of fact, the very first time we did it here, what was that, two years ago or so, three years? We had all of one person in our audience and she is here today! She knew that it was good enough to go back to Mark. Yeah, oh yes. So what we do, kind of an open-ended conversation about what's going on in the world. We obviously talked a little bit about this week and what happened to Relativity Fest this week and some of the broader issues also being implicated. So we only have 45 minutes, so just to jump into it quick, let's start with introductions and we'll just go down the line. And Victor, why don't you start with telling us who you are?

1:18Thank you. Zong. Cool. My name is Victor Lee. I have a synagyotomy general cover in business of law and analogy. I'm from China. Hi, I'm Stephanie Mullins. I'm the director of the National Institute at Legal Tech Hub. From your local view. I'm from the research and the disclosure of speech and disorder. I'm a student of the National Institute of Technology, and I am from Chicago. I got one. Hey, I'm Joe Trisun from Above the Law, and I also have a podcast called Thinking with a Lawyer when we talk about Above the Law stories, but I am a regular guest on this show and happy to be here. Hi, everyone.

2:10I'm Steve Emery. I also write for Above the Law and write for my own blog, Tech Law, Crossroads. I'm a regular participant in this pop and crew of people that you see arrayed in front of you and looking forward to our discussion today. And last one, Alice. David Horgan. I am Relativity's Discovery Council and Legal Education Director and my tardiness here with my former boss as a moderator is so you could see who everyone is and throughout the program that will be up there for you. That is the last of seven sets of slides for this fest. It was a happy day for me. I'm only a partial interloper on this channel.

2:50I am here to give you the relativity perspective on things, but when I say former boss, Bob was my editor-in-chief of the National Law Journal many years ago. After 9-11, I began writing for Legal Tech News. It was before Law Technology News at the time with Monica Bay on 9-11, and now I've been writing for Legal Tech Week, and now, of course, for Reese, who is the editor-in-chief, Stephanie, who was the editor-in-chief before Reese for 25 years, so I'm a partial interloper here. Bob, thanks for having me. Well, we're absolutely interloping. I don't know who they do is donkeys. Yeah, that's a thing.

3:28She is at donkey daycare right now. Probably making some friends, hopefully.

3:37All right, so just to start with Relativity Fest, some of us, because we all did, just came from a news, kind of a news briefing with the execs, with Phil and Chris, and talked a little bit more about some of the stuff that came up during the keynote. But maybe it's kind of down the line. Is there anything that kind of jumped out at you as the big news of the week, the headline of the week? What really struck you? So start with the other end here, Steve. You want to kick it off? Start with the other end. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so, you know, the thing about this conference, and it's a testament to David and his team, The content is always really good.

4:19Judicial panel, UK's panel, I went to the panel discussion. Some law professors today and even the press team with Phil and Chris. They're just remarkable guys. Very often a CEO will walk in the room and say, I probably shouldn't say this, but I'll go anyway. And then still there's a lunch hall on the floor. And still there's a lunch hall on the floor. Sorry, Phil. But it really is a testament. but there have been a lot of new products and a lot of new things talked about. To me, that's the fundamental impression of this show, is just a comfortable show with substantive content and sort of refreshing honesty about it all.

4:58Yeah. Yeah, no, I don't have too much to add to that. I mean, I think if I were to say interesting takeaways, you know, one of the themes of that briefing was the fix still fixed on the core constituency of relativity but that they have you know branched out to find other spaces that the you know that the core technology touches when you see down the kind of the gavel and all that sort of stuff where then there are other places where the data that you have there can get value and the company is building into that that was kind of the big theme of that of that session I thought yeah I think you can't share with us I would say the theme of conference you know it's kind of like we're lots of the

5:57rebounds what is now like row around it you know it seems to bring home that I AI's framework, it's become the core standard for all the tools across the industry, and we now have like taste tools, over-around AI, we now have really standardized procedures too. However, it's still like really early days and the conversations around conference where to see I'm trying to unpack like you know like a ton of the um I mean she and also like some of the chaos of like yeah this new tech brings to the industry you know we get like we're at trading place out train one where like we cannot go back and we can just have to talk into this whole thing like and I time and I was talking to an attorney joining the conference and she's like you know it's it's a change um it's a change and surely I might be able to be way more for ages um and I feel like you know people are really always a challenge um yeah similar to what they said and what Joe said in particular I think you know it was a couple years ago now they started pushing towards this you know legal data intelligence rather than discovering us as like what is that why are you using newer screenings but I think it has caught out with that now and there's just a lot more going on being already discovering I mean it's my basicizing takes I felt for a while that currently just memories kind of outlived I think it's usefulness in most of the ways it's used in the industry you're just so um because it's just SPL it's very limiting to what a lot of providers and service providers and tools are actually doing so it's good to see them that's actually being fleshed out a little bit more.

7:54Yeah, so today's the conference because I do work. Yeah. I'm out of this a while now. So I've been mainly just following along just on the . I just wanted to share about the name right. So just like, I mean, just like with the Relativity Clear Advanced Access Program, it's just, you know, all the partnerships that they're announcing, all the collaboration with, you know, law firms and I guess KPMG for this one, but it just kind of, and we've talked about this in the show a lot just how there's a lot, it seems like there's a lot of these partnerships that are coming out, companies and firms and vendors and whatnot just working together.

8:30I mean, it's pretty cool to see that, just seeing that level of cooperation as opposed to just people trying to, I guess, kind of want some legs out for one of them, but like they do good all day. So that's kind of my takeaway. You're biased, but what do you? Well, thank you for knowing that I need to give my horribly biased opinion, But the first thing is a thank you to Steve, because it means a lot coming from you. You're a lawyer and a journalist who's been around a long time, and a tremendous amount of work comes into this, from the events people who do all of this, our content people who put a lot of the stuff together, and those of us who put the content together.

9:08So coming from you, it means a lot. And as far as big takeaways go, the International Panel was great. We had three of them in the year. mr armstrong who's a man chef because she and they did an amazing job we have um tovey twigger on case law now um daryl green who's been our photographer um doug austin of course uh is on the case law session as well and i'm not going to take your viewers time with them but i will mention our two pr people mia and maggie who have been on the privilege Thank you. Thank you. Me and McGee. And, okay. So, and the blood pressure monitor. Yeah, yeah. But, Steve, seriously, thank you for that.

9:50Appreciate it. Yeah. You know, a little bit interesting about this conference was I think all of the major news this week we knew in advance. There wasn't really much announced here. We had heard about the rebranding, we had heard about, you know, Claire, we had heard about the acquisition of Gavel, a lot of things that were talked about this week. One of the things that I thought was really interesting and came out of the press briefing this afternoon, and I think, Stephanie, I think it was your question to fill about how are they going to be engaging with, like, Harvey and Navarro. And his answer was, we're not sure we are so much as we are really going to focus on engaging with OpenAI, with Anthropik, with Google.

10:32and he made a comment that going forward, one sure thing is that every lawyer's desktop is gonna have one of those on it. At least. At least. And that relativity wants to be accessible through that entry point. What did you think of that? I'm not surprised. I think it reflects a bigger discussion we're seeing in the industry that, I mean, for the last couple of years, everything's been about partnerships and integrations and it's still it and it still is but um it's undeniable and we have all of the major first models being they're playing to legal right now and yeah at least wanted the whole beyond every lawyer says that what you saw on you know the slide of the keynote that like relativity and particular has made connections with all of them stuff vendors are you know choosing a few of them but i think it's just the shift in priorities where, again, if this idea is to be where lawyers work, that's not not in the other big technical tech platforms, but it definitely is in the frontier law platforms, and I think we're just going to see more of that.

11:38That doesn't include the kind of ownership it's willing to hire me or something, but there's definitely been a priority shift from a lot of companies in the market, not just relatively. Yeah, I was a little surprised about that too, that I was going to mention when I got you overboard if I'm pregnant. Yeah, it's a bit of a shift, I think, and it's happened rather quickly. It's open AI and the other front-term models are sort of state-acquainted in the legal marketplace. And I haven't heard a vendor be that open about it, which maybe is characteristic of but you know I think it's a sound move because I think that's where people are gonna go and that's where we we all have been I mean I don't think there's a person in this room that hasn't used the frontier model and probably uses it almost daily so it seemed to be a logical move but that's the first I've heard of it and I thought it was good so we defeat you've all managed successfully to defeat the drinking game I've been waiting for somebody to say surface area because apparently That's what we all say.

12:45Nobody's noticed. No, no. What about just MCT? That doesn't work for a day. That's so April. I do like, you know, I feel like the Conver decision is like, you know, shifting away from my party and... like, more, um, T-O-G-N-A-I and Ropic and... we love this one. We have been holding out rats to see if a big tech company owns it to be an insurer. And we all assumed it would be a gross off. And really it's like these new frontier fighters who have the potential to completely change the entire industry i mean like i've been talking to uh tech you know um um companies over these all right they all told us we don't know like what's going to change we're just trying to keep as open as we possibly can um and um we're all just kind of like integrate with f4e1 because like you know we have to see who comes out top you know on those mcb connectors um and this is not see how these light and tell the product cool stuff as I think most of you know relativity has MCP connectors to four major platforms opening eyes java gpt Microsoft copilot and progress pod and did I ever say my yes he did but it's okay Google generally keep some every copilot cuz they don't understand it so yeah all right so we got this for and the big thing about those four is that back in the day back when we were still Kikura there was the idea to make Kikura and relativity sort of like the App Store and now you know 12 13 years later the more things change the more they stay the same and it's I get kind of cool for my very by this established Bob opinion that you can go to relativity and you can connect all four and I think that is a really cool feature.

15:00Linda Sheehan thank you again for cautioning me and taking that out of the CLE slide because I think that A it was a source product B it's too confusing but now that it's not CLE I think the four MCD connected platforms it's really cool stuff. I do want to be careful to say in this whole conversation though that you know as much as this is the thing that's happening right now I don't think And I haven't seen any evidence that we're at point where, you know, these frontier halls are replacing legal tech. Like, we're talking about it in terms of who people are integrating with. But I, yes, there are big headlines about certain law firms developing things with them.

15:34But, you know, we see still a lot of legal tech products out there. I mean, so the funding act I learned yesterday was 1 ,400 days since Chesley Teal launched. Yeah, I talked. Just counting. And then, well, there was somebody who told me. But also, the reason that's known is actually we published a quarterly amount of AI tools, which is probably being published following up here if the computer stopped blunting. And that map for the first time has crossed 1 ,400 Gen AI solutions. So it's like one a day. Not that it's gone linearly one a day, but that's how far we've gone. In 1 ,400 days, 1 ,400 Gen AI and Vivo products, and that's a completely separate universe from these front-air models that we're talking about.

16:20I'd be remiss about doing what Mark Ginch generally is on the show, which is to say that the front-air model is great, and they want to get it illegal because they want to make money somehow because they can't make money in peers in any other way. But the big thing that I have felt over the last few months talking to tech people with a particular law firm and stuff is the looming toting it. The point where it switches over and they have to actually start paying for all this stuff that they're getting addicted to by free samples. And you know, in all great industries, like selling drugs, free samples are great, and then the problem comes afterwards.

17:02And I do wonder if we are going to see soon more and more folks try to experiment and find ways to do things cheaper. I think we've already seen Harvey built its own modeling. You know, we've got Thompson Royer's building a smaller language model. Like, I do wonder if that's going to be a trend during the next several months as people start having to confront how much money this alt stuff they're doing costs. And Morgan & Morgan building their own band. Yeah. Well, yeah. May I make a biased observation? And I'm clear about, well, gee, that was funny, Kevin. It is. Yeah. What I want to say is that to Joe's point, and I'm plagiarizing this from Adam Weiss, who is our chief administrative officer, chief legal officer, because he was on the AI legal session earlier.

17:55And that point came up to the point about, hey, you know, the free ride is going to be over and you're going to have to pay. And Adam's observation was that, yeah, but by economy scale, the whole thing is going to get cheaper eventually. Sure, there's a lot of freebies, but like hallucinations and everything else, you get to a certain age and you realize nothing is new. Everything has happened before. Think back to when we were in law school. Lexus and Westlaw were big heroin pushers. And I mean that with sincere affection because they gave you free Lexus and Westlaw. You could use it all the time.

18:29I mean, this kid is a summer associate. Didn't know that you had to pay by minute. He thought it was free like it was in law school. ran up a huge, almost six-figure Westlaw bill. They're not going to do it anyway, remarkably. Then I got to ALM and Bob. Remember in the old days, we used to have free lenses in Westlaw there too. It was gorgeous. But then, you know, the meter doesn't run anymore. You get flat feet on a lot of things. I think that's great too. And I actually had a comment, a conversation about this today. But I think right now, Abbott-Altside call it kind of a legal tech polycule that like now we are no longer seeing like oh well we just have we bought this product we bought that product their law firms are buying everything and allowing people to sort it out which reminds me of those old lexus as less law days and from my perspective where this is great we can move back to a world where they're fighting over the hearts and minds of uh of law students by getting them a free pizza or whatever um so uh the and you know this is probably less out terrible uh the cheaper drugs can come from China.

19:34Everybody's like really going to live on strategies or open source of old and white. Yeah. And we've seen like you know awesome. So we've seen Harvey too and like they have me really to be very targeted to you know tasks and also way cheaper to so I'm you know super curious to have like you know and the Ruppick goes through with the IPO because the DNA like it's under everybody is you know extremely couldn't there will be costs and they have a cheaper just as effective alternative. Yeah, I tend to agree with Joe and a little bit more pessimistic about this because I think with all the money that's being poured into legal tech, it's just billions of dollars, all the money that's been poured into the frontier models, they're going to have to make some changes, they're going to have to make some money.

20:43And yes, maybe that means that there'll be more competition and cheaper alternatives come along. But cheaper doesn't always mean better. And I think if we look, as an example, to social media and what's happened there, we have three players, two, depending on how you count and who you like or no like, but there's Facebook and there's LinkedIn and there's X. And if you trace the image of Facebook and what they have done to make their product worse since they were in a very conceivable way and yet all of us just plug right along with our antos and we went down the alleyway. So I did have some concerns that that could happen with the big waves and the frontier miles which are rapidly becoming the control point for every other AI tool.

21:38And then, I mean, what do we know about technology, right? There's always going to to get it cheaper. There's always many ways to, um, everyone thought, you know, when music, you know, when, um, we're gonna pay a lot of money for, you know, all these services, and people always figure out a way around that. People always figure out a way around downloading movies, people figure out a way to do other things on the internet. So, um, I wouldn't know about that. So, yeah, I mean, someone's gonna figure out a way, even, you know, it's considered like someone will figure out a way to make it cheaper for your model that could do most of what you're looking for and people will fall into that.

22:18Something that's been really related, a related theme this week, given that AI needs data to feed it and to make it work well has been this whole concept of data intelligence, relativity as a data intelligence platform. We just came from Iltacon where I manage and NetDocuments and whoever else is talking about themselves as the data intelligence platform. Is this all just marketing hype or is this a real thing? What do you think of that? It's a whole organization, Bob. Well, I mean, one thing I think was one thing in the press briefing was, I mean, again, Chris was very specific about we're still a vertical data company.

22:58We're not going out across all forms of legal data. Maybe we're not any discovery company per se anymore. We're a data company. But it's still basically litigation and discovery data that we're talking about here. Whereas with us, say, a net documents, or Iman, it's a law firm data. It's a whole different set of data. And then you've got some of the major AI providers that are now integrating case law data and docket data, that sort of thing. I mean, there's all sorts of different data here, and everybody's trying to position themselves as the key data platform, when in fact none of them really are at this point.

23:31I don't know. I think the real difference is where there is lowercase legal data intelligence and uppercase legal data intelligence in the organization. And I think what the organization does as well is they think about people's careers. I kind of know that the first time I heard the concept of like, and this is different from every discovery, none of you're wanting to be at information governance center 20 years ago. But it's focused on people's careers and how to data move and how your career to move with the data. And I think that LDI does that really, really well. and I think that's what makes a difference.

24:03For me, yeah, Bob, you can realize here's these uppercase. Well, no, we're lowercase. I mean, we're a proud partner and a proud Sunday number of LDI, but definitely lowercase. And then there is Mr. Bartolo, Ms. Sheehan, there are a lot of LDI people here. For all we know, Doug Kaminsky, who just walked in the door, is active in it too. But, yeah, I think that that is a real difference. And we're probably there, I don't know, I think it was fast 2014 when Seijer got up there and said, we will be the e-discovery company and the Rougier. Well now, we iterate, we innovate, and things have gone beyond that.

24:42Yeah. Yeah. I think too that companies that are coming from the e-discovery background, they sort of have a head start in all this data management because you guys have been doing it for years before everybody else was doing it. And to some extent, companies in that field have the ears of lawyers. Because when you guys came along and said, we can do this better, cheaper, and faster, it wasn't like you were going to cut our bill out, which you did. But it was more like, you're going to save our butts from the judge that's given us 30 days to turn on the documents. And there was a bit more of a sort of relationship built on that.

25:24I thought it was interesting today that Phil and Chris were pretty clear that they're focused on the litigation sort of data part of the business as opposed to contract management or things like that. That's a good focus to have because litigation isn't going away and data's not getting less. And so it's going to be a continuing growing field. I mean, yeah, it may or may not be a buzzword or a term to some extent, but this is exactly why I just said a few minutes ago, but I also think the term e-discovery has evolved its usefulness in a lot of what these things are. So we have to call it something, and I don't know if calling it e-discovery doesn't serve us anymore either.

26:09So why not legal data intelligence? You know, we've been talking for years, and Bob, you talked about this as well, is the e-reducted to e-discovery because everything is electronic now. and I eat team Cohen who is in the audience who the first person I heard say that get rid of the but um it's Bob and some of you guys know I'm also an adjunct professor of law at Duquesne and the first year I taught this class they came in they're all doing paper in their summer jobs and I've had this incredulous look the next day uh for the next class period a student brought back photos over banker's box and so paper still lives out there and from what I hear um Iron Mountain and still has storage places of the amount where they source them.

26:51Yeah, I'm sure, well, speaking of outmoded technology, I mean, again, one of the topics that came up in our press briefing today is the fact that servers still exist, the relativity server still exists. And obviously the company has said that starting in 2028, no new matters will launch on server, right? So it's going to be phased out. Grandmother clause. Grandmother clause. Grandmother. or a grand person call us. Yeah. Yeah, so it's really interesting to me because I've been to a couple of other conferences lately where when you go to the keynote and the CDOs up on stage, they're talking about Gen.AI, they're talking about the cloud, they're talking about everything we're doing, cutting edge, and then when you talk to their customers, they're still, we still like the on-premises version, we still like the way it used to be done, we're still very comfortable there, We're in no way to move.

27:46So are we still sort of stuck in this between the cloud and the terra firma here? Or what? You actually have like a hybrid situation. It's only akin to what they publish. Like after around 2010. People were streaming like that's the end of like people running to everything. It's going to go to like e-books. and we still have tons of Shores everywhere They aren't as However, like, you know, there's like still a core group of like Pro-super Friends And they're always like, you know, like You're like a core group of like, you know You know, council in specific uh specific industry i guess i'm always have to have on um and then it'll just if you get like you know a hybrid distribution where you have to walk you know cater to a you know tiny portion i guess um and you know i believe the whole like you know clouds felt this cool very low and people are like oh my god it's going to the cool absolutely end of times um you know it's it's crazy how we always like you know or public for the end of times like we can sort of i'm quite i've like both um and i don't like feel the the concerns over like you know the the 2020 change is, you know, like,

29:36you know, like, also, it's okay from, like, January 1st, 2020, fine.

29:45Well, I mean, so much of Lodge is about, like, hey, it's not for so long, why are you just giving it a flood, you know, why fix it? Like, you know, this has worked for us for how many years, but there's no reason to change it. And, I mean, yeah like until until there's the day where it's like you know service space becomes ungilly or too expensive or or not feasible then the biggest hit with I mean yeah post lawyers did these quite all the time is done that this one now we have a question thanks for stuff I'm just wanting to take you back to the redundant technology mind you're all American citizens but you seem to be using the term AI yeah when do we get the rebranding to relativity sir yeah we have become a government all over here certainly we have this what would take the vacation to link America I thought I thought you were only going to fall there.

30:48It's hard to keep track. Yeah. If there are other questions, you can go ahead and raise your hand. We're going to keep chatting away here. All right, we're not getting this. Let's see if we go. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

31:06My question has to do with access to justice. So we have, you cannot do law today constantly unless you have some kind of AI. It's we're getting to the point where if you're not using AI, you're not actually doing what you need to do for your clients. People who are doing things for themselves, the pro se litigants or whatever, they only have access to models where when you put data in, that data company has your data forever. Now, whereas law firms and companies with money will always, for these court cases, they have availability of AI where they can get their data back out if they need to. They rate it and make sure you have to do that.

32:04So what's going to happen? You can't all these, you know, on the individuals who don't have money, they have to just put their data into these things, and they cannot use that in all these law cases where you might need to call it back. You can't get it back. So are they going to lose access to the courts in another way?

32:33Jonathan Hill, our colleague, I'm not saying I'm going to be showing it. I know to drop in the bucket, but Justice for Change, Justice for Change does a lot of this, and there are legal aid clinics who need more funding, Jonathan and I were just talking in the hall, I've got another one. I know we're not the biggest talking in the world, and we're probably dropping the bucket, but we're trying. It's not just us. They follow the law firms and all those pro bono programs, and those law firms are using the software. Relativity partners are active in these things as well. I think a lot of people with good intentions are really trying to fight the good fight.

33:21Your question is exactly correct, and it's in a way no different than it's always been. because a lot of access to justice, unfortunately, has depended on good people doing good things, even though they don't have to. And that's still the case now, unfortunately. I think, too, there's sort of a nod, nod, wink, wink sometimes when you talk for lawyers and juggies and prosaic linnitus, knuckle and doze, and we got to do what we can to cut that off. In fact, the 10th Circuit recently came out with proposed rules that would require pro se litigants to certify that they had actually read the cases that they cited in their pleadings or their briefs or whatever.

34:05You know, the first question is how the hell they're going to find it, which was how they will figure out what it means. Yet you're holding them to a standard which seems blatantly designed to discourage, you I would say the bottom links, which I think, of course, they deal with, and lawyers seem to deal with, with a lot more respect than what they are. It's interesting that when Anthropic announced this big push in the legal, they made access to justice a very specific and explicit part of that. CHAC-GPT has kind of deferred on that, but the understanding is, and I've talked to other people who are involved with this there, in terms of their launch into legal recently, they definitely plan to have an access to justice component to that, or they're going to be working with legal services organizations and all those like that.

34:49ILTA has just launched an access to justice task force that I'm on, happy to say, and they're going to be working, they're going to be at the Legal Services Conference in January, looking at how they can help, you know, bring AI tools to that sector. And then there's a little Clio going into the courts thing, which we've been talking about a lot. If you haven't followed that news over the last couple of weeks, But, I mean, Clio is just deciding it's going to make a big push into providing technology for courts and the judiciary to help them, basically help them become more efficient and more effective at serving the, you know, the throngs of litigants that are now self-represented litigants that are now coming into the courts.

35:28I need to make one representation, one solution that my wife said, well, maybe what will happen is that the smaller language models will actually, some of them learn how to run on just your computer, and there might be open models that will be able to run to this. It's a possibility. I think that's where Google is going that way. The Chinese open source wants to eventually... Sorry, I'm not being paid... It's just cool. Do you want to pin me an hour? Were you at the... Oh, shit.

36:17I won't forget. That's awesome. Any of the comments, questions? Julia, that's my spirit. Actually, I'm going to tie that question and the one before that together. Because I think the question is the same. It's about access to privacy as well. So tying it to access to justice, the esteemed David Coven is working at his initiative, the AT Justice, which indeed will focus on more private models. I've used Pueyang and other of the open source private models working with, say, the Brazilian government, others to do exactly the same. They have enormous volume of case study, and it's where fire tech.

36:56It really gets down to the same thing that the companies are, which they're trying to go. There are many of the regulated companies and others provoked by the openness of JetAI in sharing information in order to ensure their data is protected have been asking a lot of tech vendors can we put this behind our security perimeter as opposed to not and so these security reviews I've been going through with a lot of companies have pointed in that direction either with ISO 42001 certification and wanting the safeguards to ensure the movement of the data through the web doesn't happen so all of these things can be wrapped together nicely both for the corporations, and Reese is correct, we've overblown not just the sheer of the cloud, but we do have to release what's happening with data itself, whether it's for access to justice, which is that Cohen is trying to address that and any other groups as well, but also for the corporate environment.

37:55And that's very, very achievable by keeping our eye on how data flows and who gets access to it, but also making it much more cost-effective. And I would tell you that the privilege of persuasion too, because I mean, I know I have some different views on these privileged ones and a lot of other people do, but one of the through lines that I was coming through in these cases, and they don't really know how other things is that the courts are looking at what tools are you looking at? Are they free? Are they consumer grade? Are they enterprise? With the answer being that if you're using these free tools, you might be winning your privilege, but if you pay for the other ones, you might not be.

38:30So it all does tie together, exactly. Yeah, and that's a fair point. The argument about privilege is really being tested in the courts as we speak, but still people get sensitive data in these systems, regardless of whether it's being privileged or not. So I think the compliance and the protection issues are kind of broader than the privilege issues. And fortunately, the mechanisms exist now to preserve. We can even preserve in place runs in Google, Gemini, as well as in Copilot, and working on the same with Fly and with Chachet VT. So the ability exists to harvest these things in the case you need them for evidentiary reasons.

39:11But the reality is it's broader. is this data being exposed to this? Was there another question over here, I think?

39:24I hate bringing up the topic, but since it was discussed earlier, and it's a little piggyback on what Doug was just saying, with the pending innovation, including hybrid quantum and chips that are also influencing traditional computer data and further development of full-blown quantum systems that we apparently have no means of governing or collecting forensically or processing for purposes that we're all here that we're very familiar with, that regulatory requirements. Just any thoughts about, you know, how we're going to address that bending change and the uniqueness of quantum data? Of course, sir.

40:03That's kind of the takeaway I have on quantum. I actually went to a cybersecurity thing a year ago where the lesson was basically like it's already over. Like even a quant attack here, there are hackers who are downloading stuff that they can't crack now knowing that soon they will be able to. So yeah, no, that's going to be, that's a new role. Yeah, I did a podcast with someone who's working on some of these lots and, you know, computing and whatnot. And basically he was like, he wasn't totally like, okay, everyone's through it, but he was basically like, okay, If you guys don't develop some kind of framework, then yeah, we all host.

40:43And yeah, I was gonna make a flip remark about the day that they're being at the closest event. Well, that's assuming that OpenAI can't hack into it. Like they can't get out of events. So yeah, I mean, there's all kinds of issues. And as we've seen, we've only just, we haven't even started to regulate even AI, other than calling it superintelligence. So a lot of stuff, I mean, people, I mean, we probably haven't gotten any recognition on that for like, what, 15 years, 20 years? Yeah. There's a sort of mixed view among a lot of cyber security experts about the potential impact in quantum. One thing that you almost all agree on is we don't have to get to the quantum situation because of the AI tools, you know, there's an ability to attack and attack and attack and attack automatically without any human sort of intervention looking for that flaw.

41:35It's just the repetitive nature and automated nature of that that has a lot of them, a lot of the experts up online. And they're also particularly worried about personnel that are using shadowing when they go home and exposing the system to cyber attacks. So we don't have to get to quantum to know that the boogie hands out there. You have time for one more question, maybe?

42:04I have a question. And your other question? I have a question. Bob, usually at these events after you're over, we have a food assistant. So I think let's go down the line, Bob. You go first, your food assistant. The food was okay. Yeah. It was okay. The poke bowl was good. i like the bucket ball the tuna was good i didn't you know i like that that was i'll give that some props i have been editing slides and see for questions i have had not one bite of fest food um except for the um after hours of dance with you guys so thank you for coming i i don't i don't watch the on the machine sort of way.

42:54Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is not directly related, but I don't care. I'm going to do it anyway. If you're going to have this in Montague career, well, I don't know if it, Mr. Joyce, that's the last question is asked, we should have a bar. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. We actually used to have a CLE here in basics and it was relatively one-on-one. You were there, Vince. So, yeah, so, all right. That's tradition. I will make that request. I think I'll do that actually. Yeah. If they invite us back. Yeah. I will say I enjoyed the shoot. I found it to be really healthy. It's hard to go to a conference because it's always the same stuff.

43:36And it's a good, if I spread my hair, like the, okay, polls were awesome. and you also have like... So, who works for the first time I've seen her at a conference? And she's getting it as well, it's pretty good. And also, like, it's surprising, like, how you... Like,

44:02a handful of comments are literally, like, hot... Christmas and you are Watergum so that you know like this fantastic I'm always a complete sky when I can like you really Well, too until you know, it's just really Often So I house off to whoever I got the food for the conference We will like your fans if you don't know Reese He is the most food going to conferences. It's the number one thing he goes through. I'm just going to explain for anybody who's not like deep in the lore of this show. The reason we're doing this is it is an active troll of some of our audience who have complained in the past that we go to all these conferences and then we talk about the food all the time on the show.

44:55And we talk about it too much and we need to get back to whatever. So we have taken upon ourselves to just actively troll that segment of our audience by talking about it more and more so Steve what did you think about it this is one of David's debates I think we we I just came from it we just came from a conference I thought the food was really good at the conference we were last at and because I don't eat meat and I'm a vegetarian they have like all sorts of great vegetarian things and was awesome so because he said gentlemen at least all right else's conference yeah I'm not going to say actually the conference was not all great but the food I think our time is up I think our time is up Joe wants to get to the basketball oh no I was making a reference to time yeah yes answering that well thank you to all of you for your participation thanks to our esteemed panelists and see you back here next year we know Leo Eager next time Thank you.