The power of strategic narrative | Andy Raskin

25:05I think of it really as the mission of the company. I mean, what, what is the mission of Air B and B other than to help people live there? You know, if they're going to be customer focused and all that. The fourth piece is, okay, well, this object of the game, you know, winning this game, it better be hard, right? Because if it's not like we don't have a, like why are we even exist? Just like with the movie, like if it's, if, if Luke can just go like destroy the death star, then, you know, no movie. So there's got to be sort of obstacles in the way things that are preventing them from it. So saying, okay, you want to, you want to turn customers into subscribers.

25:46So worse, Zora where they go next to say, okay, well, how are you going to measure lifetime value? Because now you have this always on thing. How are you going to measure preferences and how they're changing over all these new kind of challenges that didn't exist before. And then, and these are like the, these are like the, you know, the monsters in Lord of the Rings or, you know, the, the Empire in Star Wars, these are the obstacles. And I think about them because they sound like problems, you know, this is what people would normally say, oh, these are the problems we saw. But by setting up this story thing first, we've kind of re -packaged them as obstacles to a new goal state that we've already positioned as life and death.

26:30So they take on this much more emotional meaning. We understand why they matter. And then of course the last piece is, is now talking about well, how are we going to overcome these obstacles? How, you know, what are the, in the narrative people in the movie business, they call these like the magic gifts that the main character gets to go, you know, help them win? What are the ways, now we can talk about that and success stories and all the rest of the stuff. So there's some obvious parallels to the heroes journey here. I imagine that was a source of inspiration. And the Star Wars I think is like the epitome of that journey.

27:05Can you talk about just how related those two are, how you think about that? Yeah, I mean, so here's a journey is this book that comes from, I think it's here of a thousand faces. It's a book by Joseph Campbell, sociologist, and he looks at myths over different cultures and different times. And he finds this kind of common structure that he calls the heroes journey. I mean, there's some controversy about that about his book, you know, is it a very male oriented sort of take on things and a bunch of things. But, you know, even that aside, I found when I would talk about heroes journey and stuff, it's just like, it didn't really tell me what to do.

27:48Like, okay, yeah, I got to do this pitch. So, you know, in the heroes journey, there's like refusal of the call. That's actually that what thing where Luke, like doesn't, says he doesn't want to go and where the buyer says, you know, hey, I'm, I'm, I don't have budget. But I don't know, it was just like too theoretical for me to really, when I use it, people seem to sort of glass over it. So, I just don't really talk about that at all. But yeah, I mean, that's behind a lot of this stuff, for sure. Yeah, that makes sense because I think the people here are about that all the time when they're like, become better storyteller, tell your story and the heroes journey.

28:23And it's like, I don't know what I'm doing. Also, I would say, you know, there's storytelling as a skill kind of thing, which is a great thing, you know, learn how to tell stories better, blah, blah, blah. I'm not really interested in that in my work. What I'm interested in is the one story and the structure of that one story. And this one story, it doesn't really have, you know, the world is moved from transactions to subscriptions. Like, there's not a main character in that story who's like having a problem and getting sick. You know, it's, it's almost as if what's happening is we're present, we're turning the person we talk to into the main character by creating this, by spelling out the shift.

29:04We're like changing their world. And we're asking and we're saying, hey, you, you got to, you got to change. And you want to come with us. Yeah. And it's almost like you're putting them into the heroes journey. Like you can exactly win exactly. I love that. So let me just try to summarize what you shared this five step framework. So you start with, here's a new movement that's happening. You want to name it. You want to name the stakes and there's winners and losers. And here's what's already happening. And it's really important. Then you want to name the object of the new game, like turning customers into subscribers, then show the obstacles.

29:36Here's why it's challenging. And then talk about how you're going to overcome these obstacles. Yeah. And by the way, the naming of the object of the new game, I find it often is really nice to do it as a question. So, you know, so we asked it. So, so hey, there's this shift from transactions to subscriptions and look, everyone's doing it. So we asked a simple question. What would it take to turn every customer into a subscriber? You know, and this way we're kind of bringing the person we're pitching to along almost like they're coming along with us as a co, I don't know, adventure in crafting this story.

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31:29That's ECO .com slashlennie. Maybe just to reinforce this even more, what if we go through the five steps and just with one company as an example and just talk about what each of those were for them? Okay, great. So there's a company called 360 learning. So this come, I don't know if folks know this company has raised like over $200 million there in the space of like corporate training software. So big companies, they have to train their people on all kinds of stuff. So you want to go through that one? Yeah, that sounds great. Okay, great. So the story and by the way, Nick Hernandez is the CEO and Nick's been on my podcast, so he's talked about this.

32:13So they for a long time were pitching themselves as collaborative learning. So they have features that let people sort of collaborate on courses and all kinds of stuff. And Nick is often pitching CEOs, of course, his team as well. And he told me that it was sort of like kind of falling a little bit flat. Like people, cloud were learning, okay, whatever, you know, how are you different from this learning platform, this learning platform. And so when we worked together, you know, this collaborative learning, it's almost like a category name or a descriptor or something, they was so embedded that I decided like, I don't even want to take it out, but can we define it in terms of like a of the story.

32:58So the story they came to was, hey, used to be that companies train their people through a through a basically a mindset of top down learning. There's going to be some like learning guru at the company, they're going to get all the courses, they're going to, you know, put it all together and like sort of set out this training material to everybody. And what's happening now is winning companies or are approaching this differently in this, they're adopting this approach, you may call up skill from within, which is, you know, if you look at like Google, like there's this page where I think you can go, it's a public, you can like connect with like Google's AI experts, they literally turn their internal experts into like champions that are educating, not only that, but they're going to be able to do that.

33:51Even just the company, but even external people, they created this culture of our own people are going to be the educators. So that's the shift from top down to this up skill from within. And of course, I just even started to do the second piece, which was like, hey, there's there's look at the big companies who are doing this. And then I think they showed, hey, you know, you're not doing this. Look, training is becoming very expensive. It's people don't care. People, you know, so this is the downside. So we're creating these sort of state. And also, I think he had something about, you know, how training now like companies like if you don't adapt, like you can't get these skills to your people like your car company and you can't get these skills around, you know, electric cars, you're dead, you know.

34:34So Nick was in France and he saw this poster from recruiting poster from McDonald's. And it said, hey, if you work in McDonald's, you're going to learn from everybody else on your team. And it was like, wow, there it is. Right. So it was another example we used as a kind of winner example. And so then the question became, you know, how I can remember exactly it was something like, how do you up skill from within like what would it take for you to turn your experts into like champions?

35:06And then I'm going to forget what all the obstacles were. But I think it was things like, well, how are you going to make it possible for anybody to create a course, people who don't even know how to, you know, how might have expertise in electric engines, but you know, don't know how to create a course that haven't. How are you going to make sure that there's still like the learning department, they're going to keep control and can, you know, all this, you can imagine all the different kind of questions. And then of course now 360 learning starts talking about all that stuff. And what Nick has told me, I'm actually going to be on a, on a webinar with Nick where someone asked me, like, could you bring in a CEO who could talk about, you know, this stuff, not just you blabbing on about teaching narrative.

35:48And so Nick is going to join it, join it. And we had a dress rehearsal the other day. And he was telling me like, it's just like when he starts with this now, he doesn't even get the question anymore of like, well, how you different from this other learning platform, which is always used to always be the thing. And it's just so much more seamless, like, okay, yeah, talk to our learning people get this, get this going. So it just sounds like it's been really effective for them. That's actually was what I was going to ask next is what kind of impact every scene with someone shifting their pigeon story from this doc.

36:19What was it the arrogant doctor approach to the strategic narrative. Yeah, I mean, it's always this kind of thing I hear. I mean, of course, it's very difficult to say to measure this. I mean, like, what was the value of the strategic narrative for going into screws? You know, was it, was it three X versus one at two X or I don't know who knows, right? But the things I hear from CEOs, a few things, one is that, yeah, when they're pitching, they're not pitching features out of context, they're pitching now a movement, you know, which is a lot better place to be, I think, you know, you're in a way you're not pitching product product your product is like a prop for making the story come true.

37:04Very important prop. But there's this higher level overlay that becomes the focus of the conversation at first. And of course, we're going to get into product. And and that that helps sell. Once we have this story, then everything in marketing can be all about this story, you know, with Zora when they, if you look at their website, well, when they when they first started doing this, like maybe 80 % of the content is not, hey, let me tell you about how Zora is so great or here's our new release or whatever. It's here's how music companies are embracing subscriptions. Here's how luxury goods companies are embracing subscribe, you know, it's like all these kind of almost trend pieces that become unlimited fodder and again, you're not touting your it's less salesy right.

37:51Another thing I just hear always I just interviewed a CEO this morning for for my podcast and and this is the first thing he actually said was it becomes a strategic north star for the product. So what he was telling me and this was actually little unusual I asked him like, why did you come to me at first. And of course, I've asked him that before, but he said something that I this time that was like a little different from what I heard before he said, you know, we're constantly getting feature requests through sales through customer success. And we had sort of no way bar. But for to decide like, well, what do we take on what don't we take on.

38:34And this clearly has become our bar. You know, if you think about it for 360 learning, you know, does it help us up skill from within. It's in does it not or it's prioritized, you know, does it not less prioritize. I mean, bend off told me this directly. He said, you know, we exactly the same thing we used to we we get a lot of requests for features and a lot of them are basically about opinion. Like some some way to to record opinions. And this is gone. We're not going to do those and got a gone. Yeah, we're not going to do those. Are there any companies out there that maybe aren't clients that you see as like, wow, these guys are nailing it and they're doing great job at the strategic narrative.

39:15Well, one that really comes to mind is, I mean, it's been out there for a while, but drift, you know, drift comes out with a with essentially like a chatbot for your website, which might be like the 30th chatbot for your website. And they don't say, hey, here's why our chatbot is the best one. They come, they start from a completely different place, which is, hey, used to be people would sort of wait around for you to get back to them. You know, it's a world of sort of later of they called it the world of forms. You know, you put up a web form and you expect someone's going to fill it out and maybe wait a few days while you take your sweet time deciding if they're going to get back to them.

39:57And David cancels and David get her started from right the beginning saying, now we're in a world of now where they where buyers are they I think they showed this woman. I remember this woman's sleeping with her phone like that's your that's your prospect. Like there's always on and they're going to expect you to be engaging with them right away and they called this conversational marketing and you know they really went with that and created I think a whole movement. And they broke away from all of the other, you know, chat box awesome example. So earlier you throughout this word category and I've noticed you haven't talked about category and category creation too much.

40:44And I think that you're kind of not a fan of this idea of creating a category and focusing on category. I'd love to hear your perspective on how that all relates to the stuff you recommend. Lenny, are you trying to get me in trouble like that guy who make that guy in your podcast who who attacked jobs to be done? Apparently, and let's do it. I would I would soften it a little bit and not just because I don't want the iron of the category design folks, but I really would soften and say I wouldn't say I'm not a fan of creating category. Look, I think the you know, if you look play bigger, which is being become kind of the the Bible of that category creation thing.

41:22You know, if you look behind that, they're going to what what do they say the category is they say it's a narrative. It's a story about how the world was to how it is and and so what I find though is that when people think about category creation, they tend to just focus on like, OK, well, this is this category name going to be that we got. What are these three words that are or two words, whatever that are going to sort of magically make us seem like we're totally different from everybody else. And and and a, I think that's not really possible like these three words aren't going to do it. Take gone.

42:00I mean already other companies were using this term revenue intelligence, right. With gone, it suddenly becomes a thing because I think they have this opinions to reality story behind it. You know, one point I again, I asked a meat. He said, yeah, in it because he had really I remember he really struggled a level. What should we call it? Which we call you came up with with with that one. But then when I asked some ladies like, yeah, you know what, in hindsight, we probably could have called it like strawberry intelligence. It didn't matter. It was really the story that that was sort of matter.

42:31I don't I think he was exaggerating a little bit. But and I think the category people would actually agree with this. I think they would agree with like, hey, you are these three words are it's sort of a short hand for this movement for of old game, new game narrative. But I guess that I guess I feel like still by calling it category and category name, like we're just focusing on those three words so much. And what happens often is is CEOs will they'll kind of come up with this little category like like what happened with with Nick at the 360 learning with collaborative learning. We have this name, but we don't know how to tell the story around it.

43:12And that, you know, so my feeling is like, well, let's let's focus on the story. So that's why I talk about strategic narrative and and movement creation versus category creation. You know, if someone decides that your movement is a category, great bonus. I see. So essentially your approach is category can play a part of this, but there's a bigger question you have. What's the story? What's the movement? What are the obstacles and categories and element of that potentially? I mean, I always almost see them as orthogonal like, you know, with HubSpot, you know, HubSpot had this narrative run inbound, you know, used to be just outbound.

43:53Still now we're going to have inbound. And that that wasn't really a category. There's still I think if you back then they were probably known as marketing automation. Now they're probably known as CRM because they've broadened. But this movement is the thing that's sort of the constant. And in some ways orthogonal to whatever category they're in. Is the strategic narrative framework right for essentially any company or is there like a sweet spot? I've noticed most of the companies you've been talking about are B2B SaaS. So I don't know, maybe like if there's a spectrum of perfect fit for strategic narrative framework and then like not a fit at all.

44:31What's like, what's along that spectrum? Yeah, well, you can see it. I mean, it takes a little time. I mean, to tell this story. And it's a kind of you were kind of framing it a little bit and we're telling you lots of different channels, right? So I think it does really play well in sort of like this enterprise sales context because also we have a group buyer there. So it's not just one person who's doing some research and there's like this whole group has to sort of have a united a uniting story. So I think you're right that in noticing that the companies that this tends to resonate with tend to be B2B enterprise sales.

45:18Technology I think because often the product is very complicated. You know, that arrogant doctor stuff. You know, comes from an age when the things people were selling were like products on shelves that didn't change much. You know, cans of soup at the supermarket or or like a car and the dealership even software back then, you know, shrink wrapped in a box doesn't change. Soft B2B software, you know, this stuff is changing by the minute. And does it even make sense to make a claim to say like, oh, we have these features and they have those features. Therefore, but I mean, like, does that can you even does that make any sense?

45:58That said, you know, hey, I was looking for I was looking for like a sports watch, you know, like a Fitbit and an, you know, and I'm, yeah, I'm comparing specs and I'm doing all that stuff, you know. And so that mode of buying is still happening, but I think that's, you know, so yeah, when like consumer products companies contact me, I usually say no occasionally they're they're looking they still say, okay, yeah, we'll build this. We still want to have this narrative, but yeah, I think it has the most value most impactful right away for B2B enterprise technology companies. Just a few more questions.

46:34When it's just what's a sign that you should spend time in this area that something is broken in your strategic narrative story pitch. Well, I can tell you what I hear from CEOs when they contact me like, why did I always ask like, what's happening? Like, what, because that idea I had no CEO is going to budget a line item for this. I'm basically asking like, why was I wrong? Like, what? So a few things they tell me one is that the company is maturing from a point of stage where they've been successful, but that success is one placebo, put it this way as like was brute force of the founders. So the founders are in every meeting there in every in every product discussion every sales call.

47:18And that's shifting the company is getting bigger. Usually I'm seeing this around like series B where the company is getting so they can't be in every every sales call every market. And they're looking to kind of transmit all the good stuff and some direction in a way that people are going to remember and all and all that everything from how we pitch to what the product should be and all that. And they see this as as that. There's another kind of point that I see people contacting me out, which is where they're growing. That's usually a bit later where they've had they've scaled tremendously successfully.

48:02Now we're either acquiring or building out whole new product units. And that old story we told is just it's just not big enough and we got to expand it to something bigger. This is this is the example of like one trust, which I was on my which I'll have on my see all have my podcast recently starts out with just sort of I think is the data privacy around, you know, the regulations that people have to be able to say don't track me things like it. And then they buy these other company and now we have this much bigger, bigger offering. So how do we tell the story. And then I guess the third one is some form of pivot where we were telling an old story, but we're, you know, whatever the market changed or whatever and we're we want to go in a different direction.

48:52So say a founder is listening to this and they're like, okay, I realize I need to do this. I haven't spent enough time on this. So I'm not working. This could be a huge unlock for us. What are the first couple steps they could take to start to figure this out. And I imagine at some point it's like go talk to Andy. He'll help you through this. Is there a step you can do in your own? How do you go about? Well, a lot of folks have have emailed me over the years like, hey, well, I told you before there were some who emailed me like, hey, try it. It didn't work. But many, many more have have emailed me.

49:22Hey, I tried it. It did work. Thank you. And so yeah, just try to lay out that structure and try it. I mean, even when I work with teams, I, I adapt what what my people might call sort of lean approach. Like I want to get that thing out there into sales calls. You know, we're not rolling out the whole sales team right away, but getting it out into some sales calls and get a sense like, hey, is this resonating or are people like given the nods. Ideally, by the way, one way I look to test it, you know, is it working is like when we talk about this shift and the stakes and the, you know, do they stick.

50:02Do they kind of say like, yeah, let me tell you how that's playing out for us. And or or in my yes, I'm seeing that let me sometimes literally I'll train sales people to ask them that question like, am I crazy or you see in this and what did they say and you know, you can usually tell like if they're in and it's qualitative, but I really like that kind of kind of testing to see if it's working. And I think anybody can do that. Is there a template or a guide you have online for folks to follow other than maybe just listening to this podcast and reading. Is there a post that's like, here's the framework defined and go follow these steps.

50:41I mean, I guess the closest is that the greatest sales deck I've ever seen post, which is this war a deck. But even there, I really people have asked me like for a framework like and like, you know, presentation companies that could we have your template so we could like make it available people will revenue share with you or. So you know, and I am so against this template like every team I work with it's different, you know, it's not like the same number of slides. Sometimes we can lay out this shift in one slide. Sometimes it just feels better or the team likes it better, whatever if it's a few and we're sort of getting people into it.

51:20Sometimes there's no slot. So I am really hesitant to sort of recommend any template. And what I'd say is like these are principles for, you know, for building it not not any prescribed formula. If they do want to reach out to you while we're on this topic, what's the best way to contact you? Can I move me on LinkedIn? That's usually a good one. I am usually posting things on LinkedIn that I've learned from working with other teams. Awesome. Last question before we get to a very exciting lighting round. I saw speaking of LinkedIn, you posted how in a working session with companies that the second session is always this like low point they all go through and they're going to get discouraged and pain.

52:08And first of all, I love the expectations heading. You're like, this is going to suck initially and it'll get better. Why is that the low point and what is it that they focus on in that second session? Well, apparently I'm not doing enough of a expectation setting because like what that post was about was like this woman who would so when I work with the CEO always asked them to create what it calls strategic narrative team of up to four people. And usually those are leads of like marketing sales, whoever in this case the CFO was a really important person in this company and so the CEO wanted her as part of this team.

52:41And she said to me at the end, she's like, you know, I would love what we got to always asked what worked, what did it work? And she's like, love what we got to that work great. What didn't work was like, you told us that this second session was going to be bad, but I don't I think you could have drilled home more like exactly how bad. So and then I asked her actually, could I could I have that quote with your face on a slide that I now present to future team. She said she said, yeah, you could do that. So the way I work it is in I have a kickoff session where essentially I'm asking people on the team, like what are these pieces?

53:16What is this old game, new game shift? What what how do we talk about winter set the stakes and everything I just talked to you through. And you know, we have like five people in the room, there's going to be like we're going to come out of this with notes and notes and boards are boards and boards of ideas of like this stuff, right. And so then two things happen. One is I asked the team to start interviewing customers about how they see this shift and and sometimes the customers will literally give us the words and that can be helpful and sort of aligning if we have differences. But but I also start working with the CEO one on one and we start when we build a first version of this thing and it's the second session where we present this first version to the team.

53:59And think about what's happening like the team is just giving us like millions of gold ideas like truly they're all and in order to make something sort of clean and powerful. So the CEO and I have had to pretty much throw out all of them, you know, save one or two right and there's going to be feelings about that first of all. Second of all, you know, if this weren't easy to just like get all the interview everybody come up with it, they would have done it right. So it's going to be wrong. But the good news is this is where the team gets to weigh in. I also asked what's working not working in this thing.

54:38And when we learn how it's not working that gives us the juice to then me and the CEO go back to the drawing board. Wait, we plan on this in advance. We're going to go back the drawing and then bring up something good. So I you know having a shit draft is like a million times more valuable than having all these great ideas. But it's also really painful. It's painful not only for them, but for me like no matter how many times I say that. I want it. I expect they're going to love it in that first one too. And I'm really pissed off when they don't, but luckily now I've done enough times like I know that's going to happen.

55:19I was just watching a documentary about Annie Lamont who came up with the shitty first draft concept for writers that I stick to. I'm a firm believer in that. Yeah. As you're talking one last thought that I had is he'd work with CEOs and founders. I feel like this could be just as useful to product leaders, product managers working on a product that they're launching. Just like what is the movement we're happening here's why this product is important. Do you do you find that too? Absolutely. And it very frequently like the product leader chief product officer is part of this group. And what I'd say though is that the reason I so when I looked after I did this work for a few years, I looked back and I was like, which were the ones where, which were the engagements I did where like I can see it and it just the narrative is like really this two North star for everything.

56:09And it was always the ones where the CEO was leading it. Not just like in name, but like literally the person who called me who was like in working on the drafts with me and like going through like. And so initially I didn't I didn't insist that it would be the CEO doing that, but eventually I started to and I think even for a product leader, like you're going to want the support. You don't want to be just telling that story in product, you don't want that supported from you know this war person who gave me the initial deck. He said, you know, it was like I was like I had air cover. And I was just going down and knocking down deals on the ground.

56:49You're going to want that air cover and marketing sales recruiting everything. And you know, how much better is it if it's if it's really driven by the CEO and you have that amazing. Is there anything else you wanted to touch on or you want to share before we get to our very exciting waiting room. No except I love category design people and it's really just it's really just sort of terms that I like better. You know what forget it scratch that part. I thought that's funny. Oh yeah, okay. Yeah, we can leave it in. We can leave it in. You can even leave this in where I'm telling you to scratch it.

57:26That sounds good. I was actually going to joke that I was going to cut this out and leave you hanging. But okay, I know you can do that. Yeah. Category design people love you. Don't don't hate me. Thank you. Great. I love it. We're going to be okay. I think. Okay, well with that we reached our very exciting lightning round. I've got five questions for you. Are you ready? I'm ready. I haven't seen the quiet. I saw the quit. You sent them, but I didn't really look at them. So I'm I'm just going to tell you what I said. I'll go. Perfect. Excellent. So the best version of this. What are two or three books that you've recommended most to other people.

57:59One of the books that I read initially in that from that Barnes and Noble. It was story by Robert McKee. I think a lot of people know about it who are sort of interested in story stuff, but it's it's kind of a Bible of people who are doing screenwriting and stuff. Pretty if you know anyone who's in Hollywood who are thought about going to Hollywood like they they know about this book. I love a book called Out of Sheerage. It's really not about what I do or anything, but it's the author is Jeff Dyer Jeff. He's a he's written a lot of books that are kind of essay memoir. And this is a book about him trying to write a book about the edge Lawrence.

58:37So it's all about procrastinating and like, oh, like him. I'm supposed to write this book. I think I'm going to I'm about to go on a trip somewhere. Should I bring the collected works of the edge Lawrence on the trip because that'll help me start the book. But maybe I shouldn't because it's not going to. Then I could come back refreshed without having. You know, basically it's all that it's all this sort of like in the head. I just really enjoy that book. What's a favorite recent movie or TV show they really enjoyed? Station 11. Station 11. That was just so beautiful to me. Tripping was a trippy movie.

59:11Did not expect to go where it went. Yeah. I usually ask what's a favorite interview question you like to ask and I don't know how often you're interviewing people. But does anything come to mind when asked that? Well, I can tell you one thing I ask when I speak with CEOs is I like to ask what role this narrative played in your leadership. What does it play? How does it work in your leadership? It's always really interesting for me to hear that. I was often here things that I don't expect. What's a favorite product you've recently discovered that you just really like? I recently got a Fitbit. I think I made a major earlier.

59:48I was like looking for a product like that and so far I'm really loving it. Amazing. Have you tried other versions of Fitbits or that's the one that's working? I also ordered a polar at the same time and want to returning the polar. Basically it was just a little clunky on my wrist so I went with the Fitbit. Why do you have one that you recommend instead? I just have the Apple Watch and I've never tried a Fitbit and it gives me all this stuff that seems cool. I've never gone further. I got the Fitbit a week ago and I actually still am on the fence whether I bring it back to return it for the Apple Watch.

1:00:26I'm enjoying it but we'll see. Final question. Your expert on presentations and I imagine you spent a lot of time in decks. Just what's one small change people can make to how they put together a deck or a presentation that will make their presentation a lot better? This is the one thing. Make the title the takeaway of the slide so that the person looking at it has to do zero work to take away. So example you'll sometimes see like the problem or the team replace like the team with our team is a veterans of whatever industry or every single slide the takeaway. It's a takeaway not a label and it'll make everything flow a lot better.

1:01:16You did a killer job answering the lightning round questions without having a peek at what they were going to be. Andy this was incredibly insightful. I'm going to go start working on my strategic narrative from my podcast and newsletter. Two final questions working folks find you online if they want to reach out learn more maybe consider working with you and then how can listeners be useful to you? So I mentioned LinkedIn is with the connect with me that's that's fine. I'm going to go to my website is Andy raskin .com. I also have a podcast where I talk with CEOs of if you're interested in hearing like more details about no actual use of this.

1:01:47It's called the bigger narrative. I my mom introduces every episode I call her I sent her the interviews in advance I call her an interview about what she thinks people will get out of it and that conversation becomes the intro to the podcast episode. And what was the last question? How can listeners be useful to you? Useful to me. Just you know if you try any of this stuff let me know like worked didn't work. You know have this question I would love to hear that stuff. Amazing. Andy thank you again for being here. Thanks so much for having me. It's just really fun. Bye everyone. Thank you so much for listening.

1:02:26If you found this valuable you can subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts Spotify or your favorite podcast app. Also please consider giving us a rating or a leaving review as that really helps other listeners find the podcast. You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at Lenny's podcast dot com. See you in the next episode.