Find your side quest

0:00This message comes from Great Wolf Lodge. There's adventure for the whole family, including an indoor water park that's always 84 degrees, attractions, spacious suites, and more. You're just a short drive away from an unforgettable family getaway. Learn more at greatwolf.com. I tried skipping the other day. I was at a rest stop, and I did some squats, and I did some jumping jacks, and I did some lunges to the door because I just wanted to move. I didn't know if I would remember how to skip. Have y 'all skipped recently? I did. I have. I had skipses in the past year, yeah. Me too. Yeah, I'm avid.

0:42I still knew how to do it. Yeah. We skip on here. That makes me really happy. How did you? Why? Why are, why have y 'all been skipping? Like what prompted this? My niece is skipping age. And so I'll see her do something and I'll be like, do I remember how that works? And I do. Skip because I am a big kid. It's why I study play. I, my partner and I, I have a little rubber ball in my backpack. I take whenever I travel. And we were in the Poughkeepsie train station, throwing it around like, and people were like, what are you guys doing? You know? I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a play advocate across the board.

1:18So if it's asking folks, like, when's the last time you skipped? Like, why aren't we skipping more? And then usually we'll end up skipping. So I've definitely done it recently, too. This is NPR's Life Kit. I'm Mariel Segarra. When's the last time you skipped or even skipped out on your day-to-day routine to do something just for the fun of it? In other words, when's the last time you took a side quest? The term side quest comes from video games. It's a mission that deviates from the main storyline. You don't absolutely need a side quest to finish the game, but they add flavor, they add depth, they build the world.

1:57It's things like go to this other realm and collect a bunch of yellow flowers or have your player compete in a knife-throwing game with a bunch of soldiers and wake up with a tattoo on his neck. This has been a trend on social media to share a side quest, like I'm learning to crochet a hundred different types of granny squares or I will be walking the length of Manhattan this month or I'm going to be arranging flowers for myself every week. One of the people you heard earlier was Brittany Luce, host of NPR's It's Been a Minute, and intermediate Spanish speaker. Brittany's current side quest is learning Spanish.

2:33I'm almost intermediate. I'm so close to B1. Like we're literally, we're just starting B1 right now. We teamed up because we wanted to know what makes for a good side quest. So we got a couple of experts on the horn. Sahara Monet, curator of Let's Play NYC, a community group that prioritizes play. My side quest is just going to the park more, being outside. I definitely say two minimum times a week I have to be at the park. And Kira Gaunt, associate professor of ethnomusicology at the University at Albany. One of her many side quests is writing poetry. Writing a poem without editing it and then recording it immediately.

3:14It's teaching me that it doesn't have to be overwrought, reworked 20 times, rewritten. You know, like we don't replay what we said to someone. No, I want to do that over. Take two. On this episode of Life Kit, I sit down with Brittany, Sahara, and Kira to talk about all things side quests. How to find the right one for you and how a good side quest can help bring you back to life.

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5:03It's about asking questions, testing, learning, and improving again and again. Science delivers harvests that feed families, tools that help farmers grow more with less, and new ways to protect land for generations to come. Let's keep asking, keep testing, keep discovering, so science can keep delivering. Learn more at sciencedelivers.com. Okay, so we live in such a goal-oriented society. Gym goals, health goals, career goals, that it's really interesting that side quests are taking off right now. Kira, why are side quests trending? What do they do for us as adults? I think of side quests like play as practice for adults.

5:48They're about not knowing. And you're going to ask me, what is not knowing? Yeah, I was going to say not knowing what? Because I don't know either. What don't we know? Adults spend so much time in environments where they're trying to control the outcome that play as a practice becomes about not knowing, not having an attachment to what the outcome is. Side quests release us from worrying about the outcome. Learning begins with inquiry. In fact, the word quest comes from the root question or inquiry. So it's not about answers. It's about the journey. that's very different than sort of like the goal-oriented framework that we're discussing that a lot of us live within yeah it's not if you know you know it's i don't know um it it leaves me with yeah and that's okay in fact that's what we're striving for if you asked me i'd say it's about exploring your curiosity like really as a skill exploring what curiosity is not just an I don't know, but I don't know what's over there.

7:03I hear you laughing, Sahara. Like, how does that line up with your attendees' experiences when you have your Let's Play NYC events? Yeah, it's interesting because I guess my interpretation of it is trying on different realities. And then the trending aspect of it is social media almost makes it so much easier to discover those new practices of play or a hobby that maybe you didn't even thought of or knew that you could try. So for a lot of the folks that come out to the playdates that we host, some people are more interested in trapeze or ninja parks and others are interested in salsa dancing.

7:42So kind of picking your own adventure is a part of the side questing experience too. I really want to go to the ninja Park one. It's a good one. Full disclosure, I've been to a couple of the events through Let's Play NYC. I went to the salsa one and I went to one at a crafting spot called Recess Grove. Sort of a community art space is how I would describe it. All right, takeaway one. Side quests are a way of practicing play. They're a way of not knowing and being okay with that. Embracing a beginner's mindset and sometimes seeing yourself slowly steadily getting better at a thing you never thought you would do.

8:29Sarah we had an episode on Life Kit about play and I actually interviewed Stuart Brown who was the guy who came up with those eight play personalities. He walked me through them. I thought it was fascinating. You've talked about this too right like you think about play personalities? Yeah, I think the whole like choose your own adventure aspect of it, I know for me, at least in my own practice of play, it is all rooted in my upbringing. Like I studied musical theater when I was in high school and then I also was a competitive athlete. So in different chapters of my life, play has come up in different ways.

9:06And in the personalities, I know some of them are more movement modalities or some are more spontaneous and some of them honestly are more competitive. You like games, you like sports. So it's interesting how play as a practice shows up differently in different seasons. And then for adults, I'm sure who are experimenting with side quests, sometimes they may want something a bit more rigid or routine-based. And in other capacities, they're like, hey, I just want to, to your point earlier, Brittany, go on a walk in a different neighborhood that I haven't been yet. Yeah. I took the quiz because I knew we were going to have this conversation and I was like, oh my gosh what play personality do i have i found out that i was a split between an explorer oh lord and i can't remember the other one they're fancy names they're very good there's like the kinesthe which is the the sort of athletic movement oriented one the competitor are you a storyteller i think storyteller was the second i had equal storyteller and explorer and then artist was after that one and like anything having to do with being in charge of other people were organizing things was at the very bottom.

10:12Interesting. On the practical side, that's something you can do if you're trying to figure out what kind of side quests might appeal to you is you can think about the play personalities. And one piece of advice we gave in the play episode for Life Kit was to think back to how you played as a kid. If you're stuck and you're not sure what play personality really appeals to you, think like, what did I love doing as a kid? I loved playing with Barbies and creating, like dressing them up in different fashions and making them fight and making them kiss and, you know, just like telling stories with them.

10:48So storyteller for sure, you know, and plenty of other ones. The director probably for me as well. But I think it's this whole tapping into your inner child thing. You know, I think a lot of people often think of what you loved when you were a kid because we were naturally curious. And I like to encourage people to do things that you don't know to do. So this is mine. I can't draw. That's what I thought. And two summers ago, I went to a drawing class because here in Smallbony, New York, I call it, sometimes there's not a lot to do. And I went to a drawing class and the instructor, there was a figure, a human person standing there was supposed to draw.

11:33And I'm like, I can't draw. And he said, look at the figure, look at the woman standing there and let your hand follow your vision. And one of the best things about not knowing is that you don't know what the impact of what you're doing may be on your life and on your character. So the next day, my writing was easier. My writing was better. So I think side quests, just like in the gaming world, really makes the main quest stronger. It gives it more nuance. It gives it some new dimension, or it actually brings out a facet of you that you convinced yourself you couldn't do. It might turn into a hobby, and it might not.

12:15That's the whole point of the side quest is it's about the moment. I love that. I love that. Takeaway two. When brainstorming side quests, think about how you liked to play as a kid. You could look to the eight play personalities, a framework developed by psychiatrist Stuart Brown based on decades of talking to his patients about their early experiences with play. A few examples. There's the joker who loves to laugh and make other people laugh. There's the artist creator. The point for them is to make something. Look at this list. See what resonates. Also, tap into that sense of curiosity that you had as a kid but may have tamped down since then.

12:55What sounds exciting or makes you want to learn more? I wonder, like, how do you know when it's time to take a side quest? Like, what does it feel like in your body when it's time to go on that ride? I know for a lot of folks, it can come out of conflict. It can come out of a really hard breakup or some stress and maybe some positive transitions in your life. But that catalyst can also be like the birthplace for really exciting character development and side questing. I know a lot of folks are running marathons and trying pottery classes and different things like that. So the timing of it can be from a life experience or, again, maybe social media.

13:36You see someone doing an activity that you didn't think about yourself. Yeah, I think if you feel like work has become your life, it's a perfect time for a side quest. If you are venting a lot about your boss or your family, you need to move from your biological family to your logical family. Go meet new people. Like, side quests in my mind are not new, but we always need a new frame for it. These are like excursions. If you're on a cruise, you'd go on an excursion on the island and you'd do things you've never done before. If you think you know everything, you need a side quest. You need to do something you've not done before because it will open up the brain's different neural networks and you'll get this sense of wonder and awe.

14:32For me and my body, when I really need a side quest, it feels like tension, tightness, stiffness. That kind of feeling like when I know that I've been sitting down for too long and I just need to get up, my legs feel restless. That's when I need the excursion. Takeaway three, some anecdotal signs that it might be time for a side quest. If you feel like work has become your life, if you're venting a lot about your boss or your family, if you think you know everything, if you're feeling stuck, tense, restless, and you may feel those as sensations in your body. I feel like a lot of us get urges or like that nudge, but we just ignore it like time and time again.

15:14And so like for me, like I haven't done theater since high school. I want to take an acting class so bad. And I've been saying that since I graduated college. And this year is the year that I'm saying I'm going to do it. And it's July. So that's a nudge, I feel. It's very loud. I'm starting to verbalize it to make it more of a reality. But I think a lot of us experience those nudges and we ignore them. So the more we can kind of close that gap of like that nudge and then I'm going to actually be brave and courageous and like do the thing and try try the side quest. I think we'd all be having more fun, honestly.

15:49I'm curious about what gets in our way. You know, like when we have something that comes to mind and keeps coming up, I want to do this. For me, it's been trying to learn how to swim better. But pools, they gross me out. And I get water up my nose. And I don't like being around other people's naked feet. There are things that I can't get on board with. But I do like being in the ocean in Puerto Rico. And I'm trying not to get wiped out by a wave. But every summer, it comes and goes. And I'm like, this year, I'm going to do this. I have an offer to consider that you say this year. That's too big.

16:31I think you should turn your SMART goal into a micro goal. This week, I'm going to go to the pool. I'm not going to go in. I'm just going to go to the pool. I'm going to go see other people learning how to swim. I'm going to go to the YWCA and see what's going on, or wherever there's a pool. And so sometimes a side quest is about, like, you don't begin because you'll know what you'll find. You begin because you're willing to find out. Like, you don't have to build Rome this year. Yeah. Exactly. It can happen over time. Yeah. Kira's suggestion to me to make my side quest tiny is part of an acronym she came up with.

17:14Artisan. A-R-T-S-N. It's a spin on the acronym SMART, as in make a SMART goal. Kira wanted to focus more on the art part. So A. Achievable. It's got to be small enough to begin. R is for revealing. Maybe the revelation is delayed. Maybe it's two weeks later you're like, oh my God, this really helped me at work, right? T is for tiny or time-bound. One small adventure, like drawing a self-portrait of yourself with one pencil with your eyes closed. S is for specific and N is for notice. Notice how you feel after you participate and not focus on it as a performance. Like what surprised me? What delighted me?

18:04Did I stop surveilling myself like I'm a parent or a teacher? And that that's an artisan. after the break people say to me why would you jump out of a perfectly good plane and i'm like a lot of people are living in perfectly bad planes and won't jump out that's coming up on life kit this message comes from whole foods market prep for a busy week with whole foods market start your day with fully cooked breakfast sausages from amy lou 365 brand frozen waffles with no bleached flowers, and of course, Whole Foods Market eggs, which are all cage-free or better. In the evening, bring home a build-your-own-family meal that feeds four for just$35.

18:48Choose one entree and two sides. Shop smarter, not harder at Whole Foods Market. I'd love to talk about the relationship between our jobs and our side quests. I feel like I can speak for myself here that that work used to occupy a different space in my life before the pandemic. My identity was more tied to my job and my career. So was my ambition and so was my social life. And then in the pandemic, there's no workplace anymore. And all the people I would see every day, well, that's no longer really happening. It's only happening over Zoom. And And work had less of a hold on me suddenly. I was no longer like my entire identity is baked up in this.

19:37And I feel like that opened me to more side quests. I think I'm not the only one who's experienced that shift, who's like, I don't want to give it all to my company anymore. I mean, when do you sit and tell a joke at work? I'm in academia. we only take our head to different meetings there is no play involved generally and there's a list of things and it's all about serious and earnestness and and you go home and then you vent about it and you're like you get up and do it again so side quests are really important given that we're living in a time where a lot of stress comes from social media people aren't I'm trained to have good social skills, social hygiene at work.

20:29I feel like that's why I listen to NPR, because it makes me laugh. But at work, it's not like my experience of listening to my favorite shows on radio. It's a burden. What I'm hearing is that side quests are a way to remind yourself you're not a machine. Absolutely. Yes to that. we host walks on a monthly basis through the summer. And so the last one we had, we asked that question of like, what do you miss from your childhood? And so some of the answers were so fun of like, like playing all day and having to like change your clothes midday because you just had like sweat through your clothes or I had noted like when it gets really hot, the fire hoses are open and when's the last time you ran through one of those like realistically and so it was just funny because after we reflected on like what people's like answers were we were walking back to our home base and our coffee shop that we end up at and there was a fire hose open and a rainbow and we a few of us skipped through it and it was just like we had manifested it but it was just so fun.

21:40It couldn't have been more perfect. That whimsy of it all. Like it's good. Well, I mean, you're talking kind of like about rediscovery, right? And I think that feels very much like part of a side quest. Actually, my career in podcasting started as a side quest. I just started a podcast outside of work with a friend 12 years ago. And yeah, thank you. But then once that became like more than a hobby, I had to pick a new side quest, which it took some years of trying some things. But for me now, that's learning a second language. It's learning Spanish. I want to be able to communicate more with some of my family.

22:15And also, too, I mean, like, oh, my gosh, like, a lot of my personality naturally is like, I know the answer. And so, like, when I'm learning a new language, I don't, as you said, Kira. Like, I can't be a no at all. I don't know what I'm saying. You know, I was not really a great student from like basically sixth grade through college. I got terrible grades for a lot of my education. But now I'm like a pretty great student with my tutor that I have been with for a few years now. And I am finally a joy to have in class. And that reframe, there's a lot from childhood, from school, from those formative years that maybe doesn't feel so good to continue to hold on to.

22:57And a side quest for me has been a way to like kind of get out of that and be like, oh, actually, no. There is this side of me that like is a great student and like loves learning and is like asking for more homework. That's not something that I knew about myself. It's like literally a new self that I have discovered through this. You mentioned something, though, about like, I guess almost like reclaiming it for yourself. I've had to reclaim my own side quest journey and hobby experience by doing some of those alone or doing some of those out of a larger group just to also preserve that practice and have that solitude to have some self-discovery as well.

23:36It's a little different if you're maybe with a friend doing it or doing it in a really large group too. Takeaway four. This is a good reminder. You don't need someone to join you on a side quest. Side questing solo can be a beautiful experience and bring you back to yourself. Also, if you're interested in a side quest that does require a group, like if you want to play soccer or volleyball, some sort of team sport, you don't have to limit yourself to the people you already know. There are spaces where other people go to do just that thing, and they're obsessed with it. We're talking about all of these wonderful, beautiful things that exist on the other side of taking that leap or even just dipping that first toe into beginning a side quest.

24:22But also I imagine that there are probably a lot of people listening who are like, oh my gosh, I'm so tired or I'm so busy or I have so many people I'm taking care of or so many things that people need from me. Do you have any advice for those who might not know where to start or who might feel too tired to try to take a side quest? I mean, the side quest in general, it sounds daunting. It does like a quest of sorts feels like a commitment to something. So I think we've been kind of talking about keeping it simple, like looking around your environment, looking around your commute and taking moments to pause.

25:02And I think to Kira's point to notice is the best way to start. But I think listening to what those urges have been, like what those nudges have been is a really good place to start. Yeah, it doesn't have to be an activity or an event. A side quest can be a mindfulness practice of, I had a student once, I taught a political sociology class. And I said, you have to change one habit, one habit. And she had a four-year-old daughter, and she worked overnight. And I consider this a side quest. Other people might not, but I think it has the same impact that a side quest is. She said, I just want to be present in the morning when my daughter wakes me up at 8 a.m.

25:48And she said it changed her life that semester. That's it. I think whether you start small or you do something really grand, like jumping out of a plane or something, it's like what's the best that can happen that's a bad example because I also do not recommend the jumping out of a plane piece but yeah what's I did it I think we should not underestimate the story that comes from whatever happened people say to me why would you jump out of a perfectly good plane and I'm like a lot of people are living in perfectly bad planes and won't jump out. It's doing things you're not familiar with that gives you a bigger brain.

26:28It gives you more empathy for who you are. You're not an object. You are a changing being from the cradle to the grave. So it's really important to do things you're not familiar with about yourself. And I think side quests give people that permission. It's reminding me about the definition of a side quest and where that came from. It came from the video game world. Part of the the reason to go on a side quest in the video game world is just to build the lore. And yes. And it's like, so it's this idea of building your own lore, your lore, you know, which like, why wouldn't anyone want to do, you know, like more lore, like enrich your story.

27:12All right. Well, thank y 'all so much. This is a really fun. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Okay, time for a recap. Takeaway one, side quests are a way of practicing play. They're a way of not knowing and being okay with that. And sometimes they're a way of seeing yourself getting better at a thing you never thought you would do. Takeaway two, when brainstorming side quests, think about how you liked to play as a kid. You could look at the eight play personalities and see what resonates. Takeaway three, some signs that it might be time for a side quest. If you feel like work has become your life, if you're venting a lot about your boss or your family, if you think you know everything, or if you're feeling stuck, tense, restless, takeaway four, try a solo side quest.

28:04And if your side quest requires a group, don't limit yourself to your current circle of friends, especially if they are not as interested in softball as you are. All right, that's our show. Before we go, would you rate and review LifeKit in your podcast app? Tell us a favorite tip you've learned or what kind of episodes you like the most. We love hearing from you. This episode of LifeKit was produced by Corey Antonio Rose and Claire Marie Schneider. Our digital editor is Malika Garib and our visuals editor is CJ Ricalon. Megan Cain is our senior supervising editor and Lauren Gonzalez is our executive producer.

28:39Our production team also includes Andy Tegel, Margaret Serino and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from Sina Lafredo. Special thanks to Cher Vincent. I'm Mariel Segarra.