Give your to-do list a makeover

9 Apr 2026 · 13 min · 6 chapters

Ask about this episode

Ask anything about it. ChatGPT or Claude reads this page and answers with the times it was said.

Connect VO and ask about every podcast you hear, including the moments you saved. Add to ChatGPT · Add to Claude

In short

How to improve a messy to-do list so it aligns with what matters, using goal-setting, a workable system, and better task formulation—plus guidance on what to drop and how to avoid productivity traps.

Guests/backgrounds

Angel Trinidad, CEO/founder of Passion Planner (digital/paper planners that translate goals into daily actions). Oliver Berkman, journalist/author of “4,000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals.”

Key claims

Decide what matters now; break big goals into actionable steps; choose a paper or digital system (including time blocking/time boxing or simple lists); limit to 4–5 tasks; use the two-minute rule/automation for tiny daily needs; convert vague projects (e.g., “redecorate”) into specific steps; “pick something to fail at” (creative neglect).

Notable examples

“Retile kitchen floor” broken into “call for estimate,” “look at tile,” “order tile”; job hard vs pointless; “update resume and apply to three jobs.”

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

Identifying the Problem with To-Do Lists

0:45 to 1:48

Exploration of how to-do lists can be chaotic and unproductive.

“Microblading, by the way, is something you do to make your eyebrows look fuller.”

Strategies for Effective To-Do Lists

3:20 to 6:04

Advice on creating meaningful and actionable to-do lists.

“So to-do lists, they're a tool we use to get stuff done, right?”

Recap and Key Takeaways

10:30 to 14:07

Summary of key tips for creating effective to-do lists.

“Save on tropical flavors at Whole Foods Market during the Savor the Tropics event, with yellow sales signs highlighting seasonal finds throughout the store.”

Recap of Key Takeaways for Your To-Do List

14:07 to 14:48

Learn how to prioritize and structure your to-do list effectively.

“And takeaway four, pick something to fail at.”

Understanding Productivity Debt

14:56 to 15:16

Explore the concept of productivity debt and its implications on well-being.

“feeling like we're in sort of productivity debt, You know, we've got to work really hard today to try to pay off the debt by the end of the day.”

Transparency about Personal Relationships

15:17 to 15:32

Discover the transparency behind featuring Angel Trinidad on the show.

“We want to let you know that Angel Trinidad, the founder and CEO of Passion Planner, and LifeKit reporter-producer Andy Tegel have been friends since college.”
Hear the part that matters, and keep it.Open this episode in VO. Double tap your headphones to save a moment as you listen.
Get VO free

Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00This message comes from Whole Foods Market. Save on tropical flavors during the Savor the Tropics event with yellow sales signs throughout the store. Stock up on juicy pineapples and mangoes, grab Hooli Hooli Chicken, and finish with Mango Yuzi Chantilly Cake at Whole Foods Market. You're listening to Life Kit from NPR.

0:24Hey, it's Mariel. I keep a to-do list on a notepad on my desk. And when I looked at it not too long ago, I noticed something. It's kind of all over the place. On a given day, it might read, Make allergist appointment. Buy razors. Retile kitchen floor. Throw out compost. Microblading? Microblading, by the way, is something you do to make your eyebrows look fuller. It's like a tattoo that lasts a couple years. I mean, the list is filled with tasks, but some are big and some are small. Some are urgent and some are definitely not. Some I'm not even sure should be on there, like the microblading, which I frantically scribbled down after the lady at my eyebrow threading salon asked who messed up my eyebrows so bad.

1:12Hi. Yeah, that was me and a tweezer. But yeah, I just never felt like I've had a good system for making a to-do list and deciding what goes on it. And I don't think I'm alone in that. So on this episode of Life Kit, we are exploring how to make a better to-do list. Because there's a lot we want to do. And a well-made to-do list can help. When you make a to-do list that's aligned intentionally with what you want out of your life, it's really powerful. We'll teach you how to break down your goals into actionable tasks and to figure out a to-do list system that works for you. Support for NPR and the following message come from Edward Jones.

1:52A rich life isn't a straight line to a destination on the horizon. Sometimes it takes an unexpected turn with detours, new possibilities, and even another passenger or three. And with a hundred years of navigating ups and downs, you can count on Edward Jones to help guide you through it all. Because life is a winding path made rich by the people you walk it with. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones, member SIPC. This message comes from NPR sponsor, the Capital One VentureX Business Card. Every business owner needs a serious business travel card that can keep up with their needs. With the Capital One VentureX Business Card, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, no matter where your business may take you.

2:39Plus, big purchasing power means you can spend more and earn more. The Capital One VentureX Business Card. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com for details. This message comes from Harper Edge. What to Make of a Life is the new book from Jim Collins, bestselling author of Good to Great. Based on 10 years of research, What to Make of a Life offers transformative teachings on what it takes to navigate your way through periods of fog, make it past life's inevitable cliffs, and keep the inner fire burning bright, long, and late. Step into frame with What to Make of a Life by Jim Collins, available from HarperCollins this April, wherever books are sold.

3:20So to-do lists, they're a tool we use to get stuff done, right? And I mean, how good does it feel when you finally cross off that task that's been hanging over your head? But warning, to-do lists can also become a trap. They can feed our impulse to stay productive at all times. The thing is, we don't want to make a better to-do list just so we can indiscriminately accomplish more. It's about doing what matters. That's Angel Trinidad, the CEO and founder of Passion Planner, a company that makes digital and paper planners that show people how to break down their goals into day-to-day actions. You can access a free version of the planner on their website.

3:57So takeaway number one in making a better to-do list, as Angel was saying, decide what matters to you in this moment. Because wouldn't it be great to fill our to-do lists with intention so the stuff on them is actually helping us get somewhere? One way to do this is to come up with a big picture goal. Something that's especially important to you right now. Something that would make a big impact in your life. Angel calls it a game changer. What is that one thing that would make everything easier, better? And that answer is different for everyone. To come up with that goal, ask yourself some questions.

4:32What do I want to be? What do I want to experience? And what do I want to have? Maybe you want to be more present in your physical body. If so, your goal could be to run a 5K. Or maybe you want to give back to your community. so your goal is to volunteer once a week, or you want to become a doctor, so your goal, take the MCAT. Now, sometimes you don't choose the goal. Life hands it to you. Like, sometimes your parent is sick, or sometimes your dog is sick, or maybe you need to find a job, or else you're not going to eat. And that might be your reality for now. Whatever it is, once you have a goal, you'll break it down into actionable steps and deadlines to put on your to-do list.

5:11And we'll get to that. First, though, I want to acknowledge this goal-making approach might feel kind of top-down. Like, maybe you don't have a big-picture goal in mind yet. And that's okay. Oliver Berkman is a journalist and author. He wrote the book 4 ,000 Weeks, Time Management for Mortals. That's how many weeks are in the average human life, by the way. And he says another option is to let your current to-do list guide you. There are various exercises, aren't there? Like, you might know the one that involves asking why five times in succession. For instance, my to-do list says retile kitchen floor.

5:45Oliver says I could work backwards from there. So like, I want to retile my floor. Why? To make that room look better. Why? And you know, eventually you hopefully get to something that feels like a bedrock value of your life. And if you don't, maybe that's a sign that it's a kind of a zombie project that could be easily abandoned. Another tip from Oliver. Look at the stuff that's filling your to-do list at the moment and ask. Do these choices enlarge me or diminish me? He says this question comes from the psychotherapist James Hollis, and he finds it really clarifying and more useful than asking something like, is this making me happy?

6:22You know, lots of life is not so happy, but can be really meaningful. And plenty of pleasures are kind of shallow and pointless, and you don't want to fill up your life with them. But does this enlarge me? Well, let's use work as an example. Maybe your job right now is hard. But is it the kind of hard that's helping you grow as a person and develop skills? Or is it the pointless kind of hard? If it's the latter, maybe it's time to add update resume and pick three jobs to apply to to your to-do list. Once you have a sense of your priorities and your goals, it's time for takeaway two. Pick a system, a way of making a to-do list that works for you.

6:59One question to get you started, paper or digital? Angel says some people like paper to-do lists because they're concrete and tactile. And what I also love about to-do lists on paper is when you cross it off, there's nothing like it. Also, paper comes to an end. When you put it digitally, there's no end. You can keep going. And I think that's when to-do lists get really overwhelming. It's kind of like a cluttered room. When it's too much, then you just avoid it completely. Digital has its pluses, though. If you make a to-do list on your phone, it's searchable and quite possibly more organized.

7:33If you do choose digital, there are lots of websites and apps you can try. Some are built into your phone. Some you can download. Folks on the LifeKit team have used the free versions of Todoist, Notion, Asana, and Trello. Another question to ask yourself, how do you want to structure your to-do list? Some people prefer a kind of calendar approach with the hours of the day listed. I like to time block on my agenda, and it's literally making a square of time for the task. So, you know, Thursday from 2 p.m. to 6 p.m., I'll be working on my novel. Wednesday from 7 to 8 p.m., I'll be at soccer practice.

8:10Friday from 5 to 5.30, I'll be cleaning my apartment. This method is called time boxing, and it can be a good way to understand how much you can realistically tackle in a day, since you're visually blocking off time for each of your to-dos. That kind of awareness gets you thinking, am I spending my time in a way that makes sense for me and what my intention is for my life? But again, this is about finding a system that works for you. For Oliver, trying to plan this way feels too rigid. I've never really found it works to make a very rigorous association between a task and the time of day. Because my moods, my responsibilities as a parent, random emergencies that arise, you just can't sort of say, I'm absolutely going to be doing this thing between 3 and 3.40.

8:55You have to with appointments and things, but if you try and do it with everything, very quickly it feels imprisoning. It feels like life isn't any fun anymore, even if you're working on things that matter. So another option is a straight-up list of tasks. Call me old-fashioned, but that's what I'm sticking with. Remember, by the way, whatever you pick is just a starting point. An important thing here is to feel like your systems for organizing your life can evolve constantly. We'll have more Life Kit after the break.

9:30This message comes from NPR sponsor, Certified Financial Planners. Asking the right questions can greatly impact your future, especially when it comes to your finances. So if you're looking for a financial advisor you can trust, Certified Financial Planner professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. That's why it's gotta be a CFP. Find your CFP professional at letsmakeaplan.org. Support for NPR and the following message come from Edward Jones. A rich life isn't a straight line to a destination on the horizon. Sometimes it takes an unexpected turn with detours, new possibilities, and even another passenger or three.

10:10And with a hundred years of navigating ups and downs, you can count on Edward Jones to help guide you through it all. Because life is a winding path made rich by the people you walk it with. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones, member SIPC. This message comes from Whole Foods Market. Save on tropical flavors at Whole Foods Market during the Savor the Tropics event, with yellow sales signs highlighting seasonal finds throughout the store. The produce section is bursting with pineapples, mangoes, and kiwis at their juiciest. Grill up fresh seafood paired with tropical fruit marinades. Or grab and enjoy the spicy Hawaiian pizza, huli huli chicken, and more.

10:52Finish with a sweet slice of mango yuzu chantilly cake. Savor the tropics and save at Whole Foods Market. All right, we're back with Life Kit. Once you have a system in mind, take away three, it's time to fill your list. Let's start with an acknowledgement. There are some things you just have to get done. The tasks of daily living. Refill that prescription. Buy groceries. Get more toilet paper. Those tasks can go on your to-do list, but they don't necessarily have to. There's this thing within the productivity world called the two-minute rule. And if it takes less than two minutes, just do it right then and there.

11:28It's not worth spending the bandwidth to write it down, hopefully remember it, hopefully do it. You could also consider automating some of these things so they never make the to-do list at all. Like maybe you have toilet paper delivered to your house once a month. You're going to need it. Okay, so we're meeting our daily needs. Now we want to reflect our bigger goals on our to-do list. Like maybe one of mine is to redecorate my apartment. The thing is, and this is what trips a lot of people up, that's not a to-do list item. So often things hang around on our to-do lists and we don't get them done because we're not even expressing them in a doable form.

12:06Let's break this down. Which parts of the apartment do I want to redecorate? Well, definitely the kitchen. I want to replace the tile floor. Still not actionable enough. We're going to have to go even smaller. Call the hardware store for an estimate. Now that's doable. Go look at tile. That's doable. Order the tile. Also doable. These are the kind of things to put on your list or in your planner. Oliver says you also might consider limiting your to-do list to four or five doable tasks at a time. And you're not going to add a new one to that list until you've moved one away, thereby freeing up a slot.

12:42That can help you stay focused. Because you can't do everything at once. And that's takeaway four. Pick something to let go. In his book, Oliver talks about the art of creative neglect. He borrowed that phrasing from graphic novelist and creativity coach Jessica Abel. You're going to be not excelling on a whole load of dimensions. If you're going to be like a really good parent and a really good employee, then you're probably not going to be able to be a really good, I don't know, runner of triathlons or something. There's a million examples. We really can't do it all, at least not simultaneously.

13:20So as you're making your to-do list with your big picture goals in mind, pick something to fail at too. To say, well, okay, instead of constantly being dismayed when I realize that I'm not superhuman, I'm going to make a decision about a few things in advance that for this season of my life, I'm just not going to be doing. So like, you know what? I'm not going to be keeping a tidy, beautiful house while dealing with a newborn baby and working full time, you know. And he says when you choose what to fail at ahead of time, you're really changing your mindset. Because months from now, when you see your messy house, maybe you won't actually feel like you're failing.

13:59Instead, you could see it as a reminder of your values in this moment and what you've committed to. okay time for a recap takeaway one figure out what matters to you what are your priorities at this moment do you have a big goal or project in mind takeaway two pick a to-do list system paper or digital hour by hour or a simple list of tasks the system can change this is just a starting point takeaway three fill your list with the tasks of daily living but also with steps toward your big picture goals. And takeaway four, pick something to fail at. You don't have to do everything all at once and you definitely don't have to do it all well.

14:42Also, remember that to-do lists exist to serve us. We don't answer to them. So if your to-do list is making you feel bad about yourself or your life, crumple it up, throw it out and start over again when you're ready. I think that a lot of us seem to go through life feeling like we're in sort of productivity debt, You know, we've got to work really hard today to try to pay off the debt by the end of the day. But remember, Oliver says, there's nothing you need to do to earn your right to exist.

15:16Before we go, an editorial note. We want to let you know that Angel Trinidad, the founder and CEO of Passion Planner, and LifeKit reporter-producer Andy Tegel have been friends since college. But we asked Angel to share their experience with us, not because of this personal relationship. but because four other LifeKit staffers independently discovered Passion Planner and found it to be a really useful tool to help them manage their time. You're supporting LifeKit just by listening to this episode. But if you feel like showing your support for LifeKit even more than you already do, you can sign up for LifeKit Plus.

15:53Find out more at plus.npr.org slash LifeKit. This episode of LifeKit was produced by Audrey Nguyen. It was edited by Sylvie Douglas. Our digital editor is Malika Garib, and our visuals editor is CJ Rikolan. Megan Cain is our senior supervising editor, and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Tegel, Claire Marie Schneider, Margaret Serino, and Mika Ellison. Engineering support comes from Kwasi Lee and Josephine Neonai. I'm Mariel Segarra. Thanks for listening.

16:35This message comes from NPR sponsor CFP, certified financial planner professionals committed to acting in their clients' best interests. Learn more at letsmakeaplan.org. This message comes from Babbel. Babbel's conversation-based language technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world with lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55 % off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com slash NPR spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash NPR.

17:17Rules and restrictions may apply. This message comes from Travel Nevada. Sand dunes, old saloons, high noons, pioneer trails and cowboy tales, snooze emails. Get a little out there. Plan your trip at www.travelnevada.com.

From the publisher
Is your to-do list helping you reach your goals? Or is it holding you back? Productivity experts explain how to level up your list so it prioritizes what matters. This episode was originally published on Jan. 5, 2023.

Follow us on Instagram: @nprlifekit
Sign up for our newsletter here.
Have an episode idea or feedback you want to share? Email us at lifekit@npr.org
Support the show and listen to it sponsor-free by signing up for Life Kit+ at plus.npr.org/lifekit

To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below:

See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.

NPR Privacy Policy

More from Life Kit

All 324 episodes
Give your to-do list a makeoverLife Kit · 13 min
Listen in VO