Seek out silence, like a Tudor

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0:55Mark Stoyle:30 years ago, Blinds.com broke the mold and made custom window treatments easy for everyone. Over 25 million windows later, we're celebrating by giving our customers up to 50 % off site-wide during our anniversary sale. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, Blinds.com has you covered. Shop online, access real design professionals, and get free samples. Thank you for 30 amazing years. Shop the anniversary sale now through March 11th and get up to 50 % off site-wide at Blinds.com. Do you ever actively seek out silence? If you don't, maybe you should. That's what early modern historian Professor Mark Stoyle told me in this latest Life Lesson from History.

1:35Welcome to Life Lessons from History with me, Dave Musgrove. The concept is simple. I find a great historian and I ask them to propose a life lesson from history. Some learning from the past that will help us today to live better, happier, healthier or more productive lives.

1:56This is the podcast where I ask historians and archaeologists to reflect on how we might live better, happier, more productive lives today by taking tips from lives lives in the past. The underlying assumption, I guess, is that things haven't always necessarily got better. Now, Mark, when I asked you whether you had any observations on this, you came back with a couple of fascinating ideas. And the one I plumped for was seeking out silence. So just Give me your top line view on what we might take as a lesson. Well, I guess I think all of us live increasingly noisy lives, increasingly busy and bustling lives.

2:29And I think sometimes, you know, because increasing numbers of us live in the city or in big towns, it's harder and harder to have sort of refuge from that noise. And I mean, George Orwell famously said, writing in the 1940s, I think, you know, he was talking about defining the future. and one of the things that he feared was this image of the jackboot constantly stamping down on the human face. But there were other things as well and one of the things he predicted was you will never be out of the sound of music. And I do think when you're in the modern city today, you're kind of assailed by music, whether you want it or not, in shops, in shopping malls, in pubs, in restaurants.

3:02And I think that's something that I find quite intrusive and irritating. I know many other people perhaps of my age do as well. But that made me think about, you know, how is it different in the early modern period? And I think certainly for large numbers of early modern people, their world was just much quieter. Now, I'm not going to suggest that it was silent because obviously it was full of noise, but the noises were different. Many of them were sort of more natural, I think, than the noises that we're used to now. And although in the middle of a big city, obviously, it would be going on all the time, I think in some ways noise was less incessant and intrusive, certainly for people living in the countryside than it is today.

3:39So I think that whole question of kind of the soundscape of early modern life is something that I thought would be interesting to discuss. So let's go into that. So what can you tell us about that soundscape? Let's talk about the countryside first. I'm imagining that is a pretty quiet place. Obviously, they won't have motorised tractors driving around or anything like that. Exactly. What sources of noise pollution might there have been, if any? Well, there would have been noise. I mean, obviously, there are all the natural sounds. And of course, I think early modern people were much more tuned in to the sounds of, you know, the weather and the environment around them than we are.

4:11So, you know, the wind, the rain, obviously, the thunder, the lightning, those things would have been probably still more noticeable to them than they are to us because we spend so much more of our time cocooned inside. So there are those things. Then there's just the sounds of the natural environment. So there were a lot more birds about than there are today. There were probably more animals. They would have been surrounded by those noises more than most of us are today. And of course, there would also have been more people in the countryside. So if you go through the British countryside today, it can often seem quite empty.

4:43It's perhaps loads of empty fields, just one person in a tractor perhaps driving about. In the past, those fields would have been full of people. So there would be different kinds of noises. And as you say, Dave, the mechanical noises that we hear today, the tractors, the planes going over, the nearby motorway, the constant sort of hum of that, those are the kinds of noises that they wouldn't have had. So they had quite a different soundscape to us in many ways. And just when you said we were going to talk about this today, I reflected back to COVID lockdown. One of the things that people really engaged with was the fact there weren't planes going overhead and that they could hear the birdsong.

5:22And there was a lot of chast about that, wasn't there? Yeah. But you just said a very interesting thing about the fact that the birdsong would have been more back in the 17th century. That's quite an interesting observation, is it? Because that surely would have been the case. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, thank goodness, you know, we've still got a lot of native birds, but, you know, their numbers aren't nearly as great as they were. Their habitat is obviously gradually being eroded. All sorts of things have happened to them over the years. So I think we could imagine the countryside that would be much more full of birdsong than it is today.

5:51And those other noises that kind of intrude on us that stop us hearing those noises would not have been there. so yeah and also just the way that people were surrounded by animals in the way that most of us aren't today and even in the city there would have been large numbers of animals so you know there'd been horses everywhere pigs sheep would have been brought in people kept chickens they kept geese all of those noises would have been around so you know there were lots and lots of noises but they were different from the ones we hear today yeah and just thinking about the urban soundscape a bit more that's that's one of the really interesting differences is animals isn't And as you said, there are lots of different animals that would be wandering around.

6:28So there would have been horses neighing, cows moving, chickens doing what chickens do. What else would have been going on in an urban environment in terms of noise? Well, there would obviously have been sort of more domestic animals as well. So everyone had dogs or lots of people had dogs. So there would have been lots and lots of barking just as there is today. But again, probably more noticeable and louder because people didn't have double glazing. Their dogs would sometimes be left out roaming. Cats as well make a lot of noise. there's a really great pamphlet that was published in the Elizabethan period.

7:00I think it was written by a man called Baldwin. And it's about how one night he was staying in a house near Aldgate and he looked up at the gate of the gatehouse and on the leads above the gate there was this gathering of cats and they were mewling and mewing. And he writes a whole pamphlet around this conceited noise of the cats in the night and what are they saying. So I think those animal noises as well would have been a lot more evident. So yes, there's cacophony really of animal noise. It's something that would be very different from what we experience. I mean, possibly if we were transported back, we might find that quite irritating, you know, being attuned to different sounds.

7:35What about industrial manufacturing transport noises? Yeah. And I mean, again, I think in the city, there would have been a lot of that. So obviously in London, there'd been the constant passing by of carts, carriages, coaches, horses. That would have been very noisy. and I think in certain streets that would have been going on a lot of the time, although not probably right through the night in the same way it does in our time. And as you say, there are all those industrial processes that would be very noisy as well. Most of those would tend to be, though, in the towns, not so much in the countryside.

8:09So I think you'd still have had a lot of hustle and bustle in those urban areas, but in the vast stretches of the countryside, which of course were much more extensive even then than they are today, it would have been much more peaceful. OK, so we've got quite a different soundscape to what we have today. Do we have much evidence for how people in the early modern period sort of thought about sound? Did they write about it very much? Yeah, they did. I mean, this particular guy that I've mentioned, Baldwin, you know, he goes on to imagine what he would hear if his hearing could be made better and sort of more finely attuned.

8:43And he sort of runs through all of the things that one might hear. And those are some of the things he talks about, the noise of animals. But he also talks about human noise. So he's imagining, you know, the scolding of neighbours when neighbours are arguing, people sort of coughing and sneezing in the streets, the sort of the noise of perhaps a fight in the street. The noise of the bellmen or watchmen. And of course, that's something that we don't have today. This was the men who would sort of patrol early modern towns with lanterns and bells actually shouting out the time. So you would hear that during the night.

9:13You would hear the church clocks. You'd hear the church bells. I mean, obviously, we still hear church bells today, but I think they're much more muted in the modern city. There's so much other noise going on, we don't notice them. And of course, some people today really hate church bells. I mean, there's that famous trope, someone moves to the countryside and immediately complains about the church bells. But, you know, for early modern people, that was, you know, that was an accustomed part of day to day life.

9:37Mark Stoyle:Yeah. And I imagine that sort of noise would have been something that would have been quite familiar. And what's the word I'm looking for? Satisfying. What is the word I'm looking for? Comforting. Comforting. Yeah. I think, yeah, that sort of the regular ringing of the bells at certain times, the chiming of clocks. I think that was comforting. I mean, church bells are really important because in this period, obviously we're way before radios, telephones, anything like that. The church bells were one of the things that were actually used to summon the community together. So in times of alarm or invasion or rebellion, the church bells would be rung to summon everyone together.

10:16It's almost a sign something's going on. As you know, David, I'm very interested in the rebellions of the early modern period. Sometimes rebels would actually sound out the bells to bring their followers together. Sometimes the government would sound bells or the followers of the government in the localities would for their purposes. After the Western Rebellion of 1549, which is what my most recent book was about, the rebels in the West used the church bells to gather all of the people of the region together. The government actually ordered in the wake of that rising that all but one of the church bells in each church should be taken down and confiscated as a kind of punishment and to stop this being done again.

10:52Mark Stoyle:Okay, that's interesting. Okay, so I'm just thinking about what kind of the lesson here is that we might take from this. And we just talked about sort of comforting noises. So is it that we should kind of go out of our way to seek silence or should we seek more comforting noises? Because I'm pretty sure that there's scientific evidence that proves that you are more stressed if you're stood by a road and listening to road traffic. I'm pretty damn sure that is scientifically attested. So what should we be doing? What's your line on this? Well, I think, as you say, you know, the modern city can be invigorating, but it can be stressful as well.

11:30And I think the sort of the constant intrusive noise of traffic, other people's music, other people's conversations on the phone and that sort of thing, that can be very draining at times. So I think it's just a reminder to us all that when we can, we should seek those moments and we can get away from those more intrusive sources of noise to try and, again, to live in the moment a bit more, to appreciate the sounds of nature, the sounds of the weather, the sounds of the many animals and birds with which we still share our environment and just sort of almost cherish that and don't forget how important it is.

12:03Because I think, as you've said just now, Dave, that some sounds are sort of intrinsically soothing and comforting and quite good for us, whereas others, someone drilling a road or constant noise of heavy traffic, actually get us down and I think in the end don't do us any good physically, certainly not mentally. No. Although you may not know the answer to this and there may not be no evidence for it, but were there any sort of episodes or incidents where people actively sought out silence in the early modern period to improve their lot? Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I mean, of course, you know, particularly before the Reformation, there is this tradition of people, you know, sort of withdrawing into sort of isolated places.

12:43There's the whole idea of the hermit. People actually take vows of silence, you know, during the pre-Reformation period, certain monastic orders. So there is an idea of sort of silence and solitude almost being quite good for the soul. Obviously, most people can't really afford to indulge that all the time. But, you know, certain well-off people or members of monastic orders could. And we also know on the other side of the coin that early modern people did recognize the dangers of excessive noise as well. I mean, there was a really sad case I came across from the English Civil War, which, you know, as you said, is one of my main interests.

13:16I mean, obviously, during that conflict, people are suddenly exposed to appalling noise from gunfire, musketry, cannon, kind of awful noises that most people might never have heard. And there's one particular example of someone who's said to have been driven sort of mad or insensible by this, a young man who the very noise of the cannon and the musket seems to have sort of affrighted out of his wits, as someone put it at the time. And I guess that's like an early form of shell shock. And again, it shows how excessive noise can actually be really damaging for us. And that's an example of an early modern person who experienced this.

13:49That is fascinating. I hadn't thought that at all, because I suppose that technology, that only really comes in. Well, it's the Walls of the Roses, isn't it? we start to get gunpowder and those sorts of noisy conflagrations that would tend to that. So that must have been quite a shock to people. Oh, I think it definitely must have been because, you know, as you say, Dave, the growth of musketry, it's a quite sort of slow development. You're already getting handguns being used in the Tudor period, but it's not really until, I'd say, the late Tudor, early Stuart period that lots of people are armed with muskets.

14:20And even at that stage, the cannon that are being used in England are quite small. But of course, the Civil War really sort of galvanises things. And the new model army has the sort of Parliament's victorious army has the greatest and largest siege train that's ever been seen in England. So the sort of the noise is ramping up all the time. And I think that to be involved in the battles of the Civil War must have been a terrifying experience. Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's that is a that is quite a fascinating thing to think about. The first time that, well, I imagine battles would have always been noisy and difficult affairs.

14:53But suddenly you've got a whole cacophony of noise that would not have existed at all. Exactly. And the other thing is that, you know, the Civil War is such a catastrophe. It goes on for so long. It covers the whole country. The whole of England and Wales is covered by this. Everyone is exposed to this and literally scores of towns and cities and castles are put under siege. So men, women and children are exposed to this incessant noise, the explosion of shells and mines. And there are lots of accounts of women and children, and probably men too in towns, screaming out in fear with these noises suddenly assailing them and the explosions.

15:31So people were put through a really traumatic time during the Civil War. Yeah. In the aftermath of the Civil War, once things had settled down a bit in the second half of the 17th century, Do you think people were more keen to seek out silence as a consequence of that? I don't think there's any, I've not found any real evidence of that. I think it's more that it's probably, you know, gradually over time, all of us become more and more sort of insensitised to noise. And that process is probably just carrying on. But, I mean, it's interesting, you know, different things come along to frighten people.

16:04I mean, several people talk about the terrible noise of the Great Fire of London. It makes such a noise in the air that people, they see the terrible light on the horizon, they fear for it, but they can also hear the fire, which is, again, something that's a fire, a conflagration of that size no one had experienced before. Yeah, but that is in itself quite interesting, is it? Because as we talked about before, if people's ears are kind of more attuned to noises generally or to the sort of the natural noises that are existing. I mean, today we've got so many sources of noise going on, perhaps we wouldn't find that so surprising because, you know, you get fire noises on television and cinemas and stuff all the time.

16:43But if you're not familiar with that roaring sensation, then that would be even more shocking. Exactly. I mean, it's the same with explosions, really. Obviously, early modern people did have fireworks. They did have small explosions. But for most of us, from an early age, we've grown up kind of watching explosions and crashes and fires on the television. So again, we're kind of insensitized to it. But some of these things would have been completely new for early modern people. And obviously, the Civil War saw a great deal of new military technology being brought into this country. So that affected all sorts of people.

17:16Yeah. Okay. So to wrap up, is there anything, you're a historian, you've studied the past to great extent. We're talking about science. Do you go out of your way at any time to seek silence or do you do anything else that's kind of a life hack that is born out of your knowledge of the past? I do, Dave. And actually you and I have already discussed several of the ones because you asked me to talk about something I would advise. And I think one of the first things is exactly what you yourself advise, which is walking, that I think that the more one walks through a landscape of any sort, be it an urban one or a rural one, that's how you almost get to grips with the past and the past is all around us in cities, in towns, in villages and in the countryside.

17:57But we just don't appreciate that when we're shooting through it in the car. I mean, I think it was the poet Laurie Lee who said that in a car in the countryside, you're sort of shooting through a lane like a rat in a drainpipe. You're not really seeing anything around you. but as soon as you start to walk through it or even ride through on a horse you're beginning to see it in a different way so i think walking is a crucial thing it's a way of getting us close to the past i think the second thing is another thing that we spoke about which is that living in this period although i'm fascinated with the past i wouldn't like to have lived in it and we have so many huge advantages that we just take for granted i mean just the simple fact that we have doctors and nurses we have medicine so many of the things that terrified our forebears we have all of these sort of ways of recourse that can help us.

18:43And, you know, the person living in the most humble two up and two down now has access to better sanitary resources than even, you know, a king of England could have had in the early modern period. So I think we have huge advantages today and I'm constantly thankful that I don't live in the past. But I think at the same time, there are some things that we have lost that are worth bearing in mind. And the last thing, I suppose, is just the one that we've been talking about, that although there are all these advantages of urban living today it is great to be able to get out of that to sort of savour the sounds of the countryside and just remember that you know that we share this world with all of these other creatures and birds and that we need to look out for their environment as well as for ours so don't go out for a walk listening to the history extra podcast well perhaps partly doing that but then listening to the sounds you know the natural world on your way back absolutely thank you mark really that was professor mark stoyle from the university of Southampton.

19:38He's written numerous pieces for us in the past. You can find them on the History Extra website. And if you want to listen to him chatting about the reputation of Oliver Cromwell, along with Professor Ronald Hutton, check out the episode in our Great Reputation series on the History Extra podcast feed. Thanks for listening.