So.. What Changed Holly's Mind??!! THAT decision to have a third

0:03We're Life of Mummy's best friends with five kids between us. I'm Holly and I'm Sophie and welcome to our podcast where each week we will be chatting through everything life after kids throws at you. Unfiltered and unapologetically honest ranting. A place to feel seen, heard and laugh along with. Hi guys, welcome back to our podcast. We thought we would do another one of our little interim special episodes because I know in previous episodes we've spoken about Sophie's decision to have a third, mine not too. We've spoken about what Sophie's life was like with three. And what's changed Holly? I'm having a baby.

0:39Oh yes she is. I decided to go for the third. Baby's in the belly. Baby is cooking. So this one is all about what happened, what changed my mind. I'm going to touch on obviously everything that led me to this decision I will be talking about just trigger warning obviously um if anyone doesn't if finds this triggering or upsetting or doesn't want to listen completely understand but I will be talking about my miscarriage my story my journey this year and yeah how like up to leading up to now yeah so when we last spoke I was just about to give birth well we've done two podcasts since I was pregnant we've done one about life with three and um about when I was pregnant with Brody and me and you both discussed having a third obviously we had our first and our second together so I was like are we going for a third um you decided not to and got yourself two of the biggest cats I've ever seen that molt horrendously but they are very cute Margo and Teddy and I went for my third um and we've spoken about well we haven't actually spoken about it but we'll speak about it when you have one child obviously if you're lucky enough to have another child I mean I'm an only child so I understand that some people it's not right for them or they don't want another child or they can't have one but generally speaking people do try and go for that second to give their child a sibling um but then when you go for that third or if you think about having that third it's much more of it's just a bigger decision because when you have that one you don't really know what it's like having two kids when you have those two kids either you're like oh my god I could never can't do another one it's just too much or you decide you're gonna go for it um I decided to go for it you decided you didn't this is my first solo pregnancy I think it's actually really rude what you've done because I left you I had to go through it all by myself and now it is quite nice in a way though because I feel like really excited for your baby whereas like when we've gone through it together we're thinking about our own babies yeah I know whereas now I'm not pregnant and you are like I'm finding this whole thing I'm really like enjoying it more it's your baby too it's my i'm really excited i'm praying she's gonna give me a girl because i felt the boy so yeah i do feel like because when you were pregnant with brodie i wasn't here you were in cayman so it was really strange yeah for those of you who don't know i was living in the cayman lines he was born there so by the time i brought him home it was like this five month old love who wasn't like a newborn anymore so you did miss out on those like in the hospital whereas i actually want to see the baby coming out of the vagina this time I'm not joking I just say the whole thing has been our baby how are we doing the nursery I really hope we have a girl because you know it'd be really nice what should we do have we thought about names for our baby with a name I'm like no no no I don't think that that's really right I think it's just a bit of fashioned like yeah I'm really heavily involved as much as I want to be by the way very much decided Adam's literally had no say and no involvement I think Sophie's been to more Sophie has been to more appointments and scams with me than my own husband I just love it I find it so like it's actually really refreshing to do it without me being pregnant at the same time yeah I understand it's just completely different but yeah so talk to us talk to us about so yeah so a lot of people when you announced were shocked because they were like you said that you didn't want not that you didn't want but you didn't at that time you made a decision not to do it yeah um obviously everybody's entitled to change their mind whenever they want but I think that a lot of people have messaged in it also being like well I feel like it's too late for me because I am 36 or 37 or you know and I don't I feel like my age gap's too big I mean our age gap I'm 37 Brody's one and a half and I have got an eight-year-old a five-year-old and one and a half it's quite they're quite close not maybe not Brody and Isla but like Zach is eight yeah seven years between them yeah close and usually you do it like after two and a half years but we were mentally not ready for that no I think when we recorded the podcast and I was like yeah do you know what I always said never say never but at that time I do remember saying like my July was at full-time school Jax is about to start full-time school Adam and I just got on a holiday and we were like oh you know Montecarlo yeah actually life is good but actually the thing is that's not life that's not real life and I know I came back from like Monaco and I was like oh my my life is back I feel like me again and my hair's good my skin good I feel good everything was I'm a sexy bitch I'm a sexy mama but to be honest that's not reality like great if it's your reality fantastic good for you but my that's not really our reality like I'm not gonna go swanning off to Monaco every two months for a lovely long weekend with my husband how lovely but that's not my reality and I do think though at the time I really was in a very good place and I was like I and the kids were still quite young like if we recorded that in jan last year he wasn't even four delilah was like six and actually like i've mentioned loads of times yes i find things very overwhelming very overstimulating like a lot of mums and i do remember saying in the podcast that i don't know if i could cope there was no way i would have coped back then there was no way because of what i'm like however like i had been thinking about a third like i am not impulsive i'm obsessive and i am a massive procrastinator but i'm not impulsive oh your hair looks really shiny it's so shiny at the moment really is so shiny oh sorry moving on adhd brain it's really really shiny oh is it distracting yeah what's that bug that gets distracted by lights that's you oh shitty pretty kind of thing i just said shitty pretty shitty pretty and again pretty shiny sparkly um thank you good yes so i don't yeah i'm not impulsive and i remember first thinking about third and i remember this i don't know why but it was january 2023 oh it's by the way like really annoying about no 2022 no but she knows the dates of everything i do i do pregnant on the month of june 2021 i worked out when sophie would have ovulated and i'm seeing weird but can i do i don't know what i would be like i worked this out because obviously i'm due next feb brodie was born next feb you had a cesarean so i know you had brodie early so i worked out that we were actually exactly pretty much bar a couple of days the same so what we would have so okay we would have ovulated around the same time you would have found out the end of may okay i'm really good with dates so my point is is that i from jan 2022 okay was thinking about a third but at that time there was no way like my kids were far too young but it has been a three year decision yeah because i spent three years back and forth and I mentioned that in the other podcast and I do think what changed for me the big probably Adam and my kids age gap I know a lot of people that like when they have multiple children they like to do it quite quickly because I get it like oh do you know what like get it done that's a logical brain a logical brain 100 % get it done yeah the reality when you are in the trenches someone says why don't you have another baby you're like are you I'm joking I'm literally just keeping my head above the water yeah which I think is what's taken so long not so long but like such a big age gap because you have to be mentally ready 100 % and I'm just not that person I always knew even before I had kids I would never have small age gaps because of my personality I couldn't so I always kind of said I'm never going to say never but if I was to it'd be much further down the line I think what changed was a I did a lot of work on myself I do remember talking about this in the podcast that there was a lot of work I need to do on myself mentally physically everything I suffer with anxiety right so awful severe anxiety health anxiety general anxiety I'm terrible so I had to do a lot of work on myself a lot of therapy a lot of meditation hypnotherapy whatever it could be to get myself in a good mental state because like you said the decision from two to three is not it's not like a oh yeah I don't really think of it I just was like yeah let's do it I just was like they my kid needs a sibling I think I came from my mum only had me yeah my dad I mean I've got so many siblings from my dad so I knew the big family and the just the single child I was like I want to give my kids yeah siblings yeah so it just was never even a thought for the second yeah that's the thing I feel like with this yeah it definitely but with me like I always knew I was I'd always said I'd wanted a boy and a girl but I could always see myself with three but I had my boy and girl and I was like I'm happy but if I do want a third I need to work on me and I did do that I spent a long time working on myself working on mental health all these things and also another massive factor was Adam like whenever we spoke about it he'd always said yeah I see three but I'm so happy if we don't have a third and he was not ready he'd say I don't nothing's missing oh really yeah he was always like nothing's missing and I said I know a boy's missing I know I know it is and he was always like I don't I don't see he was like are you bored do you want another baby bored and that's another thing because you're so used to this like especially when we had our babies together our life even though it was stressful it was amazing and we would get together there was a big group of us and we'd go to baby groups we'd go for lunch and it was like a really happy time it was fulfilled and I remember when I was thinking about having Brodie I saw this like I was working and I saw this like group of mums with their babies and funnily enough I was like I actually would rather be doing that than what I'm doing now and but then when I did it it wasn't like that for me because I didn't have those friends because you'd all moved on and no one had a third so I was just slotted in you know the next one we all had a baby at the same time yeah whereas the third one I found a little mum crew but it wasn't it isn't the same yeah for me it wasn't but obviously for you it might be different you've got some friends that are having babies similar times so you'll probably will have that community and that but that's the thing i thought about all those things i'm a massive thinker so all those things that you were like because i remember when you told me how brody and you were freaking out a bit at first you're like oh my god shit i didn't do we are very different i i was like impulsive baby and then i had sex once and i'm not trying to brag because i had fertility problems in the past exactly i didn't even really i think exactly a sickness bug and i wasn't even ovulating and i was like let's just quickly have sex i remember this and then i got pregnant it was a big shock because i didn't think about it and i was like fuck what have i done like i was honestly but it's good you say that tell a soul because i was like what the fuck did i do and it's good you could admit that because a lot of women do feel like that but won't admit it i don't i i couldn't stop thinking about it up to the point of trying i knew i knew that i wanted it but when i actually got it i was like shit what does this actually mean i can't believe that i'm gonna go through this again and and only now i've cut like he's one and a half i'm like completely like he's been really hard work for me yeah he's he's just like like a tasmanian devil into everything and now i've he's calmed down and i love the pants of this baby and i'm obsessed with him i know but it's taken like it's been a real journey because it's been hard it's been hard but now i'm at the other side i think it's hard when everyone has a newborn like they love this baby but it's like this battle of like you know you're tired and all this sort of stuff so so yeah so it it was a quick decision for me yeah that i had that i took a while to come to terms with yeah and for you you thought about i was honestly drove myself into i thought about everything you know how you said oh you know who are you gonna what about baby groups it's different i thought about all of that i thought about okay well if i do have another baby i probably will be on my list not going to be the same i thought about every single thing i wrote everything down i drove myself at list pros cut honestly i drove myself insane but what 100 % did it for me even before Adam agreed was I remember um who I can't remember who I was with but I was with a whole bunch of mums and they were like oh I'm so happy like oh my god now all my kids or both my kids or my child is full-time it's the best feeling I've got my life back oh it's brilliant and I sat there thinking I don't feel like that actually I actually feel like I don't have I don't have my life back I actually felt like I'd lost my purpose and I don't when I thought oh god yeah my jacks is going to be starting full-time delights at full-time what am i going to do i panicked and i was like i don't want that i'm not ready and i think that for me was when i remember coming home i'm being like adam i know i haven't spoken about this for a while i definitely want a third and he was like what i thought we dropped this i was like no i'm not done and i would rather never regret that you know i don't want to regret not even trying and at that time he said i'm not this last summer and he was like i'm not ready just yet i'm not saying I won't ever be ready but I can't you know and he's not we're not the kind of couple we're not that kind of relationship where I could be like oh let's just like trick him or let's just persuade him I we're not like he has to agree because I was thinking like you'll pay for it otherwise I will pay for otherwise I don't want the resentment so I had to wait and then I remember Adam saying to me you know so he's just come back with Brody see how it feels see what it looks like and he my kid had like severe allergies he cried all the time like that's what made it difficult and it's very stressful when you have a baby that goes through that and you know all that sort of stuff and I remember you being around me and sometimes like even when he started running you'd be like I'll go after him because me and James were like you do it yeah and I'm like is this not putting you off and you're like weirdly no well that's the thing that's really strange yes but I feel like this is why I do think things happen for a reason or that they happen at the time they're meant to happen good and bad because when i was around brody and i could i listen i will say this he's hard fucking well i think he's one of the hardest children i've ever been around can i just tell you what happened today on my school runs and i tell you what he so he is like he but he walked really early so when we say he's hard he's a lovely sweet natured beautiful boy but he's got a lot of energy he's riding a scooter he's one and a half he's a tornado like he climbs up the slide up the bloody what they called like they're like rock climbing thing by himself yeah he's just full of energy which he's a boy like good for him i'd rather that than like a drummer that doesn't do anything he's young and today was the first time in his life and he got out of the car and usually he runs held my hand all the way down the path all the way into the school we said goodbye to i only held my hand all the way back to the car and i was literally gonna cry and it's like such an insignificant thing no it's not and everyone was like to me he's so tall because he's always strapped in a buggy he's restrained and i was like you are the best child on the planet because when you have three kids and that third one is so energetic yeah you're knackered so i feel like i'm praying to god this is a turning point for this baby sorry no but that's but this is what i'm saying like yes so that's because he was like that i thought great this is the perfect opportunity for me to be like so they always tell the word you get one of those well then i'm fucked but you know what i i'm so grateful that i don't even give a shit to be honest with you but seeing Brody being like that I thought great because they do say a lot of the time thirds just slot in it's so easy Brody's not he is not easy no and actually I'm really glad he's not sorry not for you for me because I got to see firsthand what it would be like and it did not put me off yeah yes I would come home and be like oh my like can I deal with that like that is a lot I don't think you'll get one like him though I feel like you're gonna get a girl that just sits down doesn't do anything well let's find out I think so you definitely think it's a girl don't you well by the way i'm also we're doing on friday i'm not sure why we'll release this but we're going we we me me i'm finding out the gender of her baby yeah so that's what we've always done for each other we found the gender of each other's babies and done like gender reveal so i'm getting a cake made and i'm going to deliver it to holly's house and she's going to find out what she's having so i just feel like it could be i feel like it i don't know we'll find out a few days i feel ill but i can't wait but yeah so it didn't put me off and then that was it that was my decision made didn't tell and it didn't really say anything so i thought i don't want like the outside pressure of i hate pressure and i didn't want you even did you even tell me you were trying i remember saying no because i wasn't trying i couldn't adam was refusing so he wasn't trying but i hadn't made the decision in my mind this is what i want when i'm ready to talk about it i'll talk about it but i don't want any like i didn't even tell my mum i told noise yeah nobody because i thought no yeah so i thought that is it so i told adam and he was just like listen when i'm ready we will try but obviously at that time which i was like panicking a little bit because now that i'd made that decision after two and a half years that's again you didn't want to be taken away from you yeah so i think when you've made that decision as a woman yeah i used to look around i'd just see three everywhere number three yeah and like i was like you you need it now and i think you're so you like you've made that decision yeah it has to happen today and that was it and i had to be really patient it has to be i'm really understanding and um it at the so Adam I remember what was it was just after Christmas so January this year Adam turned around no sorry Christmas last year 2024 Adam said should we try I was like huh and it was just after Christmas I was like really and he was like yeah I think I'm ready now because I remember saying to him the thing is they always say there's never a right time there's never a right time we don't necessarily agree I don't not I don't not agree with that however there's never a right time for anything unless like it unless it's like a very very personal decision like me where i knew that i wanted a bigger age gap if i was to go for it but i remember thinking okay you sure and he was like yeah let's just see what happened you know let's just try but not try i'm like that's just no one does that please but i kind of was a bit like i'll let him think that because i don't you know what men are like when you're like well i'm ovulating can you come home and no so i thought okay well from the new year jam 2025 let's think about trying and I remember that month being like I don't actually really want to think about it too much at that time because I was trying to stress about it thought nothing of it and then came to like the beginning of Feb and I was like oh during my period I'll just take a test and it was positive and this was beginning Feb last week whenever I can't actually it was sometime fair beginning of Feb and I thought oh and I really did not expect that because honestly when I tell you I know that we aren't really trying like it wasn't like a it was a quite quick as in he was like let's try and I was like okay let's see what happens I was really shocked but one thing I will say is that obviously I will touch on this that I did have a miscarriage that that didn't end well but I knew really quickly in my gut deep down that it wasn't right I am so in tune with my body I've always been in tune my body I've always talked about this I know my body I'm huge on gut feeling and I do remember thinking something doesn't feel right and I drove myself I don't know if you felt like that at all with yours no I never felt like that my miscarriages were the first time I was pregnant so I didn't know what it felt like to be pregnant though I just saw a process of pregnancy and I just assumed that I I was I didn't know everything would be fine I never ever knew or thought I always thought something would go wrong even when I had a healthy baby after that every scan I felt like something would go wrong because when you're used to that news it just scares you yeah it's awful but I did I remember thinking because you know since we'd had Zach and Delilah and Isla and Jax I think it's such a mouthful I do feel like I was very naive because I was like it was five six years ago and I had my last baby and I do think we were also one of the first we were quite we were one of the first to have kids out of like the people we knew like we had to make new mum friends with Zach and Delilah and I didn't really I was naive I was very much like oh let's have sex and have a baby and it just I was very lucky things went really well for you yes really really well and I was really lucky really blessed really grateful didn't think of anything because I was naive to didn't know anyone that had gone through anything and then obviously as time had gone on I you do hear things and you are more aware of things than the older you get you do like with your miscarriages and I just remember thinking to myself shit like why should I deserve to have something so easy like there are so many people women out there that have terrible fertility issues or have suffered miscarriages or like whatever is going on that's all I could think about was why do I deserve this why did you feel like when you had that when you were pregnant it wasn't right I don't all I can say is I couldn't connect with it I felt really disconnected not right I think you were quite you were a bit yeah when she told me oh my god I was sat I was on the floor I was like yeah I know fuck are you talking about what are you talking about and and I remember when you went for that scan the first scan and you were telling me that it wasn't right and I was like there's something right like don't believe them I couldn't believe yeah I couldn't believe what you were saying I don't understand what you are talking about yeah and I was like go for a second opinion like I couldn't I couldn't believe that it wouldn't be right but I knew I can't even explain it was about two weeks after I'd found out and I was drove myself ill drove my mum ill drove my mother-in-law ill drove Adam ill and I was like telling you I'm telling you and they kept my mum kept saying why are you doing this why are you being so negative everything's fine don't be silly I was like no it's not there was something I wasn't connecting with and I just knew it and I don't know also So again, I've always mentioned I'm really, really spiritual.

21:57So the day I think I ovulated, because I'm worried about this shit, was January 17th. That is my grandma's birthday. One of my grandma's birthdays. They both, my grandma's passed a long time ago. But this was my mum's side. And she came to me in a dream. And it wasn't a normal dream like, oh, look, my grandma's sitting on a chair having a cup of tea. Like, it was weird. Like, I was in a dream. And all of a sudden, my dream went white. And I couldn't see anything. it was like something you see on a film when you think it's heaven everything was white and I she came walking towards me and I was standing and I couldn't really move and I it was a dream where it wasn't happy it wasn't sad but it felt very deep and emotional and she came up to me and she gave me the hug she always used to give me that this massive bear hug and I remember feeling this feels weird it's not like oh I'm so happy for you it was like a you will be okay hug I can't expect I know when something's gone wrong and you get that hug from someone and And it's like, they're like trying to make you feel better.

22:55It was like, that's kind of hug. And then all of a sudden appeared in front of me and I woke up. And at the time I thought, oh, it's a sign. Maybe it's a sign. But I knew deep down from that weird encounter with her that something wasn't right. It was like, she was trying to say like, you'll be okay. You'll get through this. Don't worry. And I just knew. So I went for that scan. I had an early scan. And I remember the first thing I said to the stenographer was, it's not going to be okay. and she was like oh don't you know don't we don't know don't silly don't say that like I'm sure everything's fine I said no it's not and Adam was like why are you being like this and obviously it wasn't and then I obviously burst into tears but I just kept saying I know I knew it I knew it I knew it and I had to go straight to my hospital because they said listen that you know you need to go to where you're registered because they're gonna have to scan you as well because we can't like they have to confirm it so i had to go straight there and i had to wait for seven and a half hours which is disgusting i know honestly it's like it was early pregnancy walking clinic and obviously while i'm there i've got women like all you can hear is women crying or women coming in like it's it's really horrible actually because there's a mix of women who are absolutely fine and a mix of women who aren't and it's traumatizing yeah and then i had a scan and then they confirmed that like listen like it's just not viable like this is just not going to work like i'm really sorry but come back in a week and we'll scan you one more time and i was like why so you had the thing that i had as well yeah it's called it's quite good for it to educate people as well it's called a blighted ovum yeah so it's where like the baby you are pregnant your body believes you're pregnant the sac's there yeah positive pregnancy test you've got the sac but there is nothing in it but your body doesn't expel it so you continue to grow and you continue to be pregnant you've got all your symptoms yeah but the baby wasn't able to develop properly develop so you have to well we you had a dnc yeah like you and i remember they said to me come back at eight weeks and i was like why are you wasting my time and i was begging really hard i was begging i was like please and they're like we're not allowed like we have to give it one more week just on the off chance the baby develops and it's like but i knew it wouldn't that week was horrendous but i do remember thinking to myself which is very me this is very my personality um there are people far worse off like I need to do that though probably always does that's really annoying like if she's going through something she can't just go through it she's like but there are people in the world I'm like well yeah but it doesn't take away from what you're going through you know be like oh do you know what my tooth is really hurting but there are people that can't have teeth like who cares like you if you're going through something you have to know it and let yourself go through it but that's my one of my biggest problems in life is I am very much like that so I got to like eight weeks came back again had to wait for hours because they were running late with emergencies i'm lying there and i'm just like please like yeah sorry it's there's no progression then i had to wait another week so then they said to me right like you have a choice you can either take the pills go home and miscarry or you can wait for it to naturally come out which we can't tell you when that could happen i was like fuck that no or you have what's called a dnc which you've had a couple where they remove it surgically i opted for the dnc surgical and i had to have it the next week that way another week and just so mentally taught it's a bump yeah i had i remember showing my mother-in-law and my mom and i was in hysterical tears like i had terrible pregnancy symptoms i had a little bump growing and it was horrific and i would get it out of me i'm also weirder because i suffer with anxiety and health anxiety like i mentioned but i asked to have the dnc awake which you're not supposed to which you're not really most people don't have it awake i opted to have it awake because i don't like the thought of anesthetic i don't like not being in control and i just wanted to be like i know it sounds weird but i just i wanted it in at least somewhat in my control um i was like get me asleep no i don't want to be here no i don't know how you did that it was not do you know what like i don't regret that decision at all but it's it was fucking traumatizing i went in the next week it was a whole thing like you don't just go in and leave like you have to go in twice it's a whole day it takes a whole day um listen like if you're squeamish or if you don't want to i probably should have said this at the beginning but like if you don't want to hear about miscarriages anything's triggering don't listen um but what i had to go in first thing in the morning they inject into your cervix i don't know if you i know you because you had it asleep didn't you they had to inject into your cervix to start your your body like contracting me i start opening your cervix to kind of bring on contractions they do that i had to go home for five hours my body it's not like contractions when you're in labor it's nothing like that it's cramps it's uncomfortable like period pain and then you have to go back in and then yeah they just i'm not even gonna go into detail but they remove it all pardon remove it all yeah they remove it all um and i it's really weird because it's a bit of a blur because i just remember like walking out of there and i was just like it's it's a very similar as well when you've had the baby because you do bleed yeah remember like you bleed for like a long time after it's like not just oh yeah you can go home I bled for a long time um and I do again very me remember thinking I don't have a right like I I didn't I wouldn't like allow myself at times to like be miserable because I thought people are far worse off than people do most horrendous situations like I know people that have been through far worse or going through far worse and I was very like I got myself in such a state of caring what about other people and not feeling what's the word for it like not feeling sorry for yourself I didn't want to feel sorry for myself because I was like I have no right how dare I which is really stupid I know because it's still a horrible thing to go through you've lost your like you it's you think you're pregnant you think I thought I was gonna have this baby in October and like you know of course but it's a mentally it fucks you up it's horrible and then you have to wait before you could try again but I know that you said at that point that really solidified your yeah like feelings to want to have another baby and all you want to do at that point is be pregnant again but you have to wait for your cycle to come back and you've got to wait for like a certain amount of time because you just had an operation down there it is honestly it's it's a massive head fuck and i do and i do i obviously came home and i listen i did a hundred percent like i don't know i've never really dealt with severe depression i was yeah i went into a depression to the point where i remember calling my mom one morning and i was like i think i need help like i'm really concerned i remember saying i'm concerned about myself you're very blank i wasn't yeah i was never i've never been that low in my life like i've had anxiety but i've never had depression but also you forget that when you go through that you do get like a hormone drop drop which you would get after having a baby probably not as bad but it's your hormones are completely dropped and that makes you feel really low and then at least when you have your baby you've got that to pick you up again but when you don't have that you just feel like completely i just couldn't get out of bed i I remember I would lie awake all night crying.

30:15I'd wake up crying. And then it was that vicious circle of like, of course I felt sorry for myself. How could you not? Of course I was absolutely devastated. But then it was my other person on my shoulder being like, stop it, stop it. There is far worse out there. Stop complaining, stop complaining. Which is again, a very me situation. Which is again, which I will get to maybe another podcast episode or whatever, this one. Which is also why I was really hesitant to share that I was pregnant at first. Because I kept thinking of like, is that going to trigger anyone like i don't want to upset anyone anyone going through fertility issues anyone that's had terrible you know but everybody's journey is their journey their journey and you can be mindful of other people's situation but it shouldn't take away yeah your like you were worried like when you put up the reel you said after a pregnancy loss and you were like i know people have had far worse than me but of course yes there are people that have had far worse than you but they're also people that have never had a miscarriage yeah and it doesn't mean that you can't feel the way that you feel I feel really sorry for myself with what I went through it was traumatic I don't yeah like yeah there are people far worse than me but I I I I'm able to say that it was really hard for me yeah you have to be able to I've definitely got like I have like even like after that I went back into therapy I started I had to obviously wait like you said for my bleeding to stop um and when we went to Cornwall and that was when I was supposed to have my three months scan and announce my pregnancy and it was it really messed me up like it did like I remember my bleeding has stopped by then and then it started when we got to Cornwall but I actually found out and then it wasn't a period I don't know what happened but basically I had gone for it's a bit of a blurb I think I'd gone for a scan and there was still a bit of remaining tissue yeah and it come and it was coming out again so I'd stopped bleeding for a week or two and it came back and I thought it was a period I remember saying I'm so happy oh my god my period's at back and it ended up not being a period it was the biggest again mind fuck for me and i did struggle in cornwall mentally like so i wasn't gonna go but the kids had the best they say it's their best holiday by the way they did we we had a big house in cornwall yeah both of our families and it was our first holiday with brodie as well and i remember when we got there it was like this beautiful glass house yeah it's going right down from the kitchen and right up and i had to move all the furniture like all the furniture to block every single exit but it was lovely it was lovely yeah and sometimes the change of scenery is good it's better to get out of like the four walls of your house it did help it was the first time i'd actually left my house properly yeah so we did that i went to cornwall and i we came back i definitely felt better but then i had i started cycle monitoring because at that time i thought right and i remember adam turning around to me and saying this is cemented for me that i want a third and i was like the same like this has i know it sounds horrible because you can't i do think everything happens for a reason it does and like i know my miscarriages made me more humane it made me understand people better and more and relate better like i think not that anything really good really comes out of it but if you really want to look for the silver lining like at least you now know both of you were like 100 and completely and that wasn't our silver lining was that cemented it for both of us because i could have turned around and be like what am i doing no okay i don't want that we didn't we were both like adam was crying i was crying we're like we need to do this i remember you coming around and like we were all talking about it and about having that third baby yeah I was having that third baby you having that third baby but like I do feel like because our families are so close like it does impact us of course oh my god Brody's gonna have a mate I know of course and that's the thing like in we were thinking oh my god at how they're not even gonna be that far apart like and it does and then you think about your due date and when they're gonna be boys boys you do you can't help but think about these things so I was obviously mourning that loss and I was getting my life back in order went back into therapy started getting cycle monitoring and the only reason i've got cycle monitoring is because can i just say and i would love to bring this woman on one day she's phenomenal so i started getting fertility acupuncture with this woman called colette she honestly i will put some of the reason why i'm pregnant down to her as well because she i've never had acupuncture before and everyone had always said you should do it and i just thought oh no i don't like needles it's phenomenal and i remember going to her and i was like just had a miscarriage um and i remember telling her as well that my cycles had changed the last year they'd got really much shorter like normally 28 days they'd gone down to 23 24 maybe 25 but generally 23 24 my periods were lasting two days and they were light and that's not normal for me so she was like we're definitely using fertility acupuncture we were like she i cannot recommend this woman enough honestly if anyone is going through any sort of facility journey you need to see her send us a message and we'll send you her details yeah or any sort of facility acupuncture but she's phenomenal so she started work on me i went every single week and i remember her saying to me one week have you had your progesterone checked and i remember you talking about progesterone when you had your miscarriages and i was like no and she was like i think you need to get your progesterone checked i think half the reason your cycles are changing is you are low in progesterone and she said listen i do from what you've told me before that i know progesterone could be a major a big cause and miscarriages i don't think it was for mine i think it was it could have contributed to why nothing developed properly um but i do know that a lot of the time with what i had is chromosomal but i do think progesterone played a part so i went to who you recommended me to private god yeah if you're ever in like if you get pregnant and you live we are in like hartford chine bill smith is the only guy that we know of that has this machine that when he scans your belly or does an internal he can physically see your progesterone which is just not a thing anywhere and that's how i was i found out i was low in progesterone and was put on progesterone with all of my pregnancies yep and that's where i went and i'm so glad i did because like you always say to me like i'm always that person oh no like i'll just leave it like no you have to get control the thing is with miscarriages as well you're out of control so yes i believe the more in control you can be some things are out of your control with mine they were chromosomal they would never have made a baby progesterone when it helped me with those miscarriages but there is no harm in getting it checked yes and when you got it checked what what happened well he did say to me i had to start cycle monitoring which was the best thing i ever did as well like the acupuncture the cycle listen i'm not like obviously i don't want it it's all private so it costs a lot of money but it's the best money I've ever spent because I think you say it costs a lot of money this is it's an acupuncture session it's an acupuncture session obviously it's a lot if you're going to do every week I had to do every week right and then bill every week and then the scans are private so you have to pay for the scans but even if you pay for that first scan yeah to go and get your progesterone checked and it is low yeah he'll put you on progesterone or he'll he'll he'll recommend you to somebody yeah who then can put you on progesterone well I went to him and he's scamming he was like the problem is is that with progesterone in every woman it rises it dips it rises it like it you you can't just come for a scan and be like oh yeah your progesterone is low take this he had to monitor me so he i had to come every single week bar when i'm on my period to check my progesterone levels i did that for two three months maybe and he did tell me he's like listen your progesterone definitely drops um which could indicate as not necessarily it can make them conceiving harder but not necessarily so if you do conceive it is a much higher risk of miscarriage because progesterone is what the early stages of pregnancy progesterone is what keep can can keep your pregnancy going if you're low you know you need to be basically be on something so i remember him monitoring when he he was saying things like it's not terribly low like it sometimes is fine and it's not but it's definitely something that if you are going to fall pregnant you need to tell me and you need to go straight away so i was having acupuncture i was having cycle monitoring and then i remember it was must have been two yes because from the end of april i got my first yes about two months after this all happened two to three months it's not completely sure um i remember i went for him for a scan i just ovulated it was a week later and he was like your progesterone is dropping now he said i'm going to be real with you it's very unlikely you're pregnant but because your progesterone is low and normally if you're pregnant your progesterone rises however that's not to say you may not be pregnant because you could be but you might have a progesterone issue which is why it's dropping yeah he said i'm just going to be honest like i don't think you are but you need to tell me if you are and you need to test on saturday this was this was i mean how you remember the days of the week i know everything and i'd seen him on the monday the tuesday and he said you need to test on saturday but then he said to me but listen next month i actually think i'm going to put you on progesterone the day you ovulate just to increase your chances so i just had it in my head i was like no i'm not i'm not pregnant like do you know what i'm going to come to terms with it and then the thursday which was five days when my period was due i was like do you know what i don't want to test on saturday because if i am pregnant how am i going to get hold of anyone so i thought i'm gonna take a test on thursday i don't know why i chose thursday probably because it gave me another day in the week to sort things out and I remember I messaged you it's on Sophie before Adam do you remember it was like quarter to seven in the morning before James probably and I said so I took a test one of those really over Amazon test strips and I put it down I thought oh it's gonna mean nothing about two minutes later I picked it up and I was like oh fuck and there was a really faint line and I literally messaged you saying oh my god you need to call me right away and I think you were like what's wrong what's going on what's wrong i haven't even opened an eye and i was like you need to fucking call me it probably gets up like 5am my stomach is seven i've had four voice notes yeah i sometimes can't even look at them till nine and i was like you need to call me she was like oh you're like me and i remember it so clearly i was and i actually had a few like digital like first responses and i took them and they were positive yeah i literally i was like screaming for Adam he was in the shower he was like what do you want nothing he's in the shower and you pulled me rather than I was like banging on the shower door so I was like you need to come out and I remember like he came I was like what he's in Brooklyn what like it's seven in the morning like school running it's like mental and I showed him the test he was like really and I was like yeah I was shocked I really was and the first thing I did was call Bill went in that day he scanned me straight away and he was like okay so far so good like your progesterone has risen which is brilliant sign but you need to go and get progesterone now we're not waiting we're going so i went the next morning into town to see someone else get progesterone anyway so i was on that i don't know if anyone's ever had it but it's a vaginal suppository so much fun stunning don't you feel like leaks out your knickers all of a sudden you're like cream you're like walking around and you're like oh i've had to change my underwear and wear pads like yeah like no other i've like ruined all my pajamas um twice a day once in the morning once in the evening you do have to lie down for a certain amount of time but you know what like and i'm now 16 weeks and four days you're forgetting one thing what when you then went back to be rescanned they said to you actually one of your of your one of your ovaries stopped working yes and stopped producing progesterone so had you not have taken that it probably would have missed that is so right so i took my first scan obviously five weeks scan i was like okay and do you remember i remember your face i don't know if you remember this i obviously had this awful like last time i was here i thought i was gonna throw up because i was like shit like last time i was here it was like a horrible experience like being told what i was told and he and i remember like oh yeah i said to him oh i'm just here right for you to just check everything's all right he's like no not really i was like what do you mean and he said to me i don't know if you remember he said to me no like i will tell you right now if it's not viable you need to go and get another dnc like i will tell you right now like this is serious he said it's serious like i need to be honest with you like if i don't see any sort of progression something's wrong you go straight to hospital i was like oh fuck and i remember he was like that's before he told me about my ovary and he was like no everything's fine i was like okay good and then yeah he one week said to me well it's very good i put you on that progesterone i was like why he goes your ovary switched off your left ovary where you ovulated from i was like what does that mean because you're not producing progesterone naturally which is a really sad thing though because had you not been with him you would never have known that no that's why like i can't bear the nhs that says you have to go for a scan at 12 weeks it's too late 100 also the nhs rules are you have to have at least three miscarriages before they put your gesturing yeah it's really sad it's so sad it's so unfair on women and if you can take control of it and you have i think knowledge is power yeah you're right and had you not have known me or other people that have been to him you wouldn't have gone there and then you would have just tried and tried and tried again and and please god maybe it would have worked one day but it's it's but yeah anyway positivity you are here you are there you're here and listen like i how many weeks you know 16 and 4 yesterday was my last day of progesterone so i'm not gonna lie like the anxiety is there and i will just touch on it quickly as well because i know this has gone on for a long time but i have to say like one thing i've not so much now but the severe anxiety and as in pregnancy anxiety i felt has been astronomical i've never been like this you still feel like that now though i don't feel like that as much now no i have my moments like now i'm a bit like oh my god i just took my last progesterone but it doesn't but now they say that the placenta produces the progesterone so yeah you don't need it from your ovary your ovary's not doing anything no and i do think i'll be all right but i spent i've had hypnotherapy therapy like the entire first 12 weeks of my pregnancy i've never i got so stressed i gave myself shingles yeah like i it was like over my house i'm like can we be happy now i know i was like i'm not ready can we be happy yet and i remember before you announced it i was like can we enjoy this pregnancy yet yeah and i think once you put it online which was hard for you and you were like no one's gonna care and then you've got a lovely response yeah all real and now like baby brands are reaching out and it's all feels very real yeah i hope that you can find a way to not be so worried which is so hard because like i said i've been there and i know what it feels like with zach i shut that door i didn't even put one thing in a nursery until the baby was born and then i got diabetes and he came 35 weeks and it was all very dramatic and i thought something was always going to go wrong with him but it didn't and that's the thing i have to keep not letting like define future but that's 100 and i definitely feel better now because i say it honestly i made myself ill.

45:01Like I can feel myself going back into like a, this is a depression, not postnatal it's like a prenatal depression. It was terrible. This summer I have been an emotional mental wreck. I've cried every single day. I barely left my house. I was petrified. I've had a scan every week. I've been a nut. But also if that helps you, you say to me sometimes you're like, do you think it's really stupid if I have a scan? I've just had a scan and I'm like, if you want to go for a scan I will come with you for a scan. Because I know what it feels like. I know I keep saying it but I do. I know what it feels like to be so worried and that You want to just keep checking, and if that's all it takes to check, then do it.

45:33Yeah, and I do think, like you said, since I announced it, like I did, I'm not going to lie, for three days after I announced it, I was a mess. She made me go to sushi with her to sit and press the button. Yeah, I did. I was like, not Adam, Sophie. I was like, why don't you just do it now? And she was like, because I'm with Adam, and he can't give me the emotional support that you can give me. So I just don't want to wait on him. I'm not going to care. I dragged her out with dinner. But I did, I spent three days. She's like, it's scheduled for eight o 'clock. Where are you? I'm coming down the road.

46:00But I did spend three days after that. And people were like, what's wrong with you? In a mess. Because I did regret it at first. Thinking about people are going to see it. They're going to be triggered. Like, people can't even have children. And I felt sick. I was like, what's wrong with me? I feel, oh, I'm terrible. Like, I have no right to, like. And now, like, listen, this is my story. People go through worse. People don't go through anything like this. And I finally now, after all the therapy and the hypnotherapy and everything else, I am in a much better place mentally. and I'm finally starting to enjoy it.

46:31And we're having a baby. We are having a baby. Can I come in? I'm not joking. No, I actually, I'm not joking. Because the first time I was allowed in, when it was a miscarriage, am I allowed in this time? Because I was like, can I come? Can I come or not? I actually think it'd be quite nice for you to see it. I'd like to see it. Would you like to see it? You can do it in the water. Fuck that. No, unless it's, I mean, this time I'm going to do an epidural if I have time, I think so. It's the point. Well, I just want to see the full screaming. Because Holly didn't take pain relief for the last two times and i've never have only had c-section so i've never seen it but i think you should have an epidural of course you should you crazy bitch blade yeah i was gonna say bitch but yeah the girl don't take a paracetamol don't want epidural like just get over yourself take take the stuff have a nice time eat a haribo squeeze it out and it'll be fine oh no yeah i mean i'm taking it day by day if you like do you know what i regret that adam actually the other wish we'd filmed jackson's car he's too shaky adam's really shaky i'll film it and i'll film both of you and you'll have a moment i actually would love it to be filmed content creation of the day stop my nose the camera coming in i'm like excuse me doctor more gram in the wrong i need to get up the nun somebody can be a nice angle here i actually would love it filmed i'm not gonna lie i'll do it i'm here for it oh i'm so excited and as you mentioned with holly's like weird dates in her life that he's born in the same month as brody yeah that's really weird by the way and they'll be exactly two years apart it's really weird and i do think if you can't have had brodie early it would have been basically at the same time like it could have been because he was c-section so yeah earlier that is weird well we're always connected somehow it's beautiful this is we're here and i'm happy listen i've been away for two years i came back at the right time yeah and yeah it's been a journey so yeah we wanted to to make this podcast to give you the update um on now holly bringing in baby number three he's called yeah our crew of five is turning into six we are totally outnumbered i mean god imagine our holidays now we'll be like can we have five rooms by the way it's so expensive yeah i know i was thinking about next summer and i was like no no i have to buy five flights who could like five flights yeah oh yeah it's probably be two yeah five flights and i can't be in a hotel room anymore so my dream of traveling is royally screwed well listen i thought about all this i thought about all this you're in the boat you're here i'm here right that was a long one but i thought you all deserved a proper detailed update and i'm really i am looking forward to taking you on the journey with me and i can't quite believe it i know and i guess that's the point of this podcast this page is to be real honest yeah and just be i guess it's all relatable because everybody can relate you know we're all mums everybody's journey's been different yeah and it's been hard but i said to you like you were like i'm not ready to talk about it i was like when you feel you're in a good place you'll be ready to talk about it you can't talk about it while you're going through it no no and listen i will i'm still very mindful like everything i post i'm very mindful about who's going to see it who's going to watch it but at the end of the day this is our platform that's what we're here for and i will share my story and i'm just gonna take it day by day yeah well thank you for listening guys yeah um i hope you enjoyed and like i said we will be picking up the podcast again so stay tuned there will be a new series coming and hope you have a lovely day evening or whenever you listen to this but thank you bye