S14 E4: From Failure to a Billion Dollar Brand (with Danny Winer, CEO at Hexclad Cookware)

0:00Nik:Welcome back to Limited Supply, the podcast where we get deep into the tactical and strategic side of e-commerce, digital marketing, and building consumer brands. I'm your host, Nik Sharma. I've spent the last nine years building, scaling, and investing in brands. And through this show and my weekly newsletter at Nik.co slash email, I'm here to share everything I've learned. The wins, the losses, the experiments, the tactics, and the insights, all so you can unlock your next$100 ,000 in revenue. Today's episode is a good one, but before we dive in, let me tell you about our chosen sponsor for this week's episode.

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1:07Nik:Then it sends it at the exact moment that that shopper is ready to buy. BFCM is behind you and now's the time to build for your biggest year yet. Old and lame retention emails are so 2025. Book a demo by December 31st and get 50 % off your first 60 days at instant.one.sharma and set up your brand to dominate 2026. Welcome back to another episode of Limited Supply. I'm your host, Nick Sharma. And today, we, you know, last week's episode with Hudson and Troy got so much praise. I got so many DMs, so many emails, a lot of texts saying that we want more of these conversations. These are kind of like fly on the wall conversations with people who don't otherwise have those conversations, you know, publicly available.

1:51Nik:and therefore their domain or their expertise does not get shared in the same way that they would tell it. And I know that because I just got dinner again with Hudson on Sunday or Monday. And again, after dinner, I felt like I was up till 4 in the morning, you know, learning about everything we were talking about at dinner. And so today's conversation is another one like that. It's with the founder of Hexclad, one of the biggest cookware brands that has come and emerged in the last, in this kind of generation, you could say. I think it's one of the brands that my grandkids will go to Costco and point out, and it'll still be on the shelf selling.

2:29Nik:Danny built this entire business bootstrapped. It's been, I believe, 10 plus years at this point. And he's done it in a way that most brands just don't think about building businesses, which is kind of this long-term brand thinking. And everything from how he thinks about brand to positioning to not even inventory, But like the materials and the quality of the products, all of that plays such a big role. So today's conversation is actually a talk from the Q4 Summit as well. But with Danny, who never does these kinds of conversations, the only in fact, the talk he did prior to this was at some fortune, you know, one of those massive fortune conferences that only 100 people get into the room and they're not recorded.

3:10Nik:So this was an awesome conversation. I think you're going to enjoy it. And I'm curious, who else you think I should interview on limited supplies? So I'm actually planning out the next season right now. So if you've got any ideas, send it to me by DM. And until then, I hope you enjoy this episode. Danny, I'm honestly truly so honored that you're here. I feel like you rarely do these types of talks. And for you to come out here to New York City, all the way from LA to do this, is very grateful. Well, it's my pleasure. I mean, Nick, you and your team have been on the journey with us for quite a while.

3:44So it's kind of like a family event for us.

3:46Nik:Yeah, I agree. Uncle Danny. I love it. All right, Danny. First question. You built this billion-dollar business, not just a business, but truly a brand over the last 11 years. And I think HexCloud has now become synonymous with the word cooking or creativity or joy, excitement. How did you do this? I have no fucking idea. You know, I grew up in an Italian and Jewish household. So for all the Italians and Jews out there, there's a lot of food involved. I think we all know that. So food was central to my family's life. We did everything around the table. We celebrated the birth of a child. At a funeral, we all ate together.

4:37So that was really important. And my grandmother, who was an Italian immigrant, she was, of course, being good Sicilian Catholics, she was one of 15 children. And she was told, you've got to quit school in eighth grade because education is for boys. You need to go out and work at eight. So she sold vegetables and she wanted to be a chef. Her whole life, she wanted to be a chef. She had no education. And eventually, she became the first female head chef in Buffalo, New York in the 1950s. But she kind of instilled this passion for the food space. And being a chef, I'm not talented enough. I'm also not crazy enough to do it.

5:22I wanted another way into it. And, you know, so I was interested in the cooking and servicing a cook in the celebration of food. So this kind of was in the back of my mind when I decided I needed to start my own company. Going into the food space was kind of natural. I'd actually worked for another cookware company. And I remember when I went to the owner of that company, I went to him with Facebook up on my screen, and this is like 2010. And I go, if we're going to survive, this is where we need to be. And we've got to start a community. And he did one of these, hands to the face. And he goes, trust me, kid, this Facebook thing, it's never going to last.

6:09So I walked out of there, and my co-founder and I went to the gym that night, and we're like, we've got to start our own company. So that's kind of like what was the impetus for it.

6:18Nik:And I'm also curious, speaking of the impetus, I feel like Hexclad has become the Harley Davidson of cooking. And I chose Harley Davidson because I feel like everybody can picture that brand so easily and so clearly. What do you think a lot, like when you were building the brand or ideating on how you're going to go to market, like what enabled you to have such a strong component of storytelling around the product, right? It's not, because HexCloud is not just a cookware company. It's a cooking company. You know, I'm so glad you asked this question. I was out there before, and I'm like, I hope he asked something about this, because it's often overlooked.

6:54You know, like, I'm not the best numbers guy in my company by far, but what I'm good at is storytelling. And when we found this technology, one, it had to have a story told, right? Because how do I explain what these hexagons are? Why are they on there? You don't have a pan at home that looks this way. So I needed to tell a story. But what I also needed to do was diagnose what our brand was and then come up with different ways to present that brand very, very clearly. And it is great that you picked Harley-Davidson because in 2015-16, when I was just finding the technology, I'm like, this is badass cookware.

7:40That's what it is. it's badass cookware. And that became like our line inside, we're badass. And the good thing about being a badass, it doesn't mean you drive a Harley. Grandma's a badass because she takes care of the whole family. And a kid who's 10 years old learning to make their first grilled cheese is a badass. And a single mom's a badass. There's a badass inside of all of us. And I wanted to be the cookware for those people. So that was the foundation of everything we started doing when we sold our first frying pan. I still have the email. Congrats. One 10-inch pan sold in November of 16.

8:14That's amazing.

8:16Nik:There's so many things I have on my mind now, but I'm trying to stay on track here. You know I'll wander off. Yeah, I know. Anyway. Okay. I want to go here next. Harley talked about novelty this morning. Novelty is something that drives the biggest form of awareness, of engagement, of customers coming back and purchasing. Hexclad has just been launching product after product after product. And prior to Hexclad, I believe you also had a business where you were selling juicers, right? That's my dirty little secret. So I'm curious. So you had this juicer business and then you had Hexclad. I'm curious what insights you brought to Hexclad and then launching product after product.

8:57Nik:What have you learned around building the business of Hexclad with product launches and novelty? So, lots to unpack there. Yeah, I'll start with the juicer because it was an enormous failure. And it's the best thing that ever happened to me. Because I was in a cookware company, I didn't want to compete against my friends. So at first, I love juicing. So my partner and I, we decided to find the best cold-pressed juicer. and boy, did we misread the market. It's so valuable to ask people questions because I didn't do it. Because after the juicer failed, everybody was like, I never thought that juicer thing would work.

9:43And so we went to market, and it was the most humbling experience because it did okay in like 15. And it was this quick. Like, it went Tuesday at 5 p.m. I was in the juicer business. Wednesday morning at 8 a.m. we were out of the juicer business. And, like, I was embarrassed for my friends. It was incredibly humbling, but I learned so much. So what I did was I took what I misread. What I did was I was going to try to impose my will on the consumer. And you can't do that. You have to respect the consumer. So when I went in with Hexclad, what I did was I listened to what were the pain points. Okay.

10:29What was, you said novelty. Well, we had a very novel product. And the reason why, and if anybody's ever heard me talk or read an article or something, I couldn't get any funding for Hexclad. And nobody believed in it for two reasons. They said cookware is too competitive. There's too much competition. And then I said, we're going to be the first D2C cookware brand. And they're like, D2C? People don't buy cookware that way. I'm like, yeah, not yet. and they go, what do you know about e-commerce? I go, very, very little, but I know that's the way I want to approach the marketplace, and I know how to tell the story.

11:05So I can do the branding. I can do the strategy. I can do all that. I'll learn the nuts and bolts of e-commerce, but I'll find some really smart people to help me with that. And that was like the best thing that I did. So we had a novel approach and a novel product. And the last thing I'll say on it, because I know I'm rambling, is as we come to market with new things, we try to remember that uniqueness. We say if we can't reinvent the wheel with a product like, you know, you've seen our pepper mill. It's the best pepper mill ever. It's a weapon. It is a weapon. And so we reinvented the wheel a bit there.

11:44Our knives, you can't reinvent a knife. So what are they? They're sexy. They're badass. So they just look fucking great in your kitchen. So we're going to do one of those two things. So we feel like that was kind of a novel approach. And if it doesn't fit into either of those categories, it stays in the drawing room.

12:03Nik:I feel like Hexclad has done such a good job becoming this media company versus just a cookware company. And if I open TikTok and I see chefs, whether it's Nick DiGiovanni or it's a random creator who's cooking at home, they're using Hexclad. If I go to the Yankees game behind first base is Hexclad. If I open, if I turn on Fox, I see every cooking show is using Hexclad. How did you get to a point or when did you get to the point where Hexclad became a media company first that sold cookware versus just a products company? So, you know, obviously you've got to start with product. But are you just going to be a product?

12:43There are products out there that are just products. Then there are products that become brands, right? and you want to be a brand, then you go, but when do you become more than just a cookware brand? So our goal was to be a lifestyle brand. And what we felt was content was key to that. That was a few years ago. In fact, that's right around, you know, my, the president of our company, Jason, he and I sit around and we'll strategize every year. Like what's our goal for this year? And a few years ago, we're like, we want to be a content company as well. And that we felt was going to be absolutely vital for us to be considered a lifestyle brand.

13:20So we were already doing certain things. Part of obviously being an e-commerce brand was influencer marketing. Then I'm somebody who always wants to think on a very grand scale. So I'm like, I want to work with the best chefs in the world. I really don't see too many cookware companies actually doing that. So we were sending stuff to Michelin starred chefs. We were trying to be getting those circles. We snuck into the first Michelin, well, not the first one, the first one that since we were in market, when they award the Michelin stars. We're just walking around, we're the hex clad guys. Nobody knew who the hell we were, but we made friendships then.

13:59And then that eventually led to the granddaddy of them all, which was when Gordon Ramsay became a partner in the company.

14:07Nik:Could you talk a little bit about the Gordon partnership? How did that come about? And, you know, what kind of credit do you think you could give to Gordon in becoming a billion-dollar brand? You know, it's hard to quantify if you're handing out credit. Like, there was a lot of smart things done and a lot of mistakes. Luckily, you know, we were good at recognizing mistakes rather quickly. But with Gordon, it was pretty simple. It was the summer of 20. And the guy who was managing our Instagram account, he called me and he goes, do you know Gordon Ramsey's following us on Instagram? I'm like, no.

14:46He's like, should I reach out? I'm like, yeah. So he sent a message and we got a response. And we're like, oh yeah, Gordon got it. Somebody sent Gordon a pan and he really likes it. Can we send over some more? Sure. Send over some more. By the way, is Gordon involved with the cookware company? I don't think so. Cut to like less than a week later, I'm on a call with Gordon's business manager in the UK. And we started the conversation. And it seemed like in that first call, like we got along. Like he made this comment. He goes, listen, Gordon's very, very busy. So if you want to do a commercial, I think he would do one.

15:25And you can pay him like$2 million. I'm like, well, I don't really have$2 million lying around. He goes, but I think he'd like to be more involved. Gordon's very hands-on. He goes, when Gordon gets involved, you're going to get more than you bargained for. And I'm like, is that a promise or a threat? He goes, both. And I'm like, and it kind of is. So Gordon wound up having a call with him. He's like, I love your fucking pants. I can't do a British accent. I wish I could. Maybe that's why I'm a failed actor. But he's like, fucking great pants. We're going to cook risotto in my restaurant. And we just had this amazing synergy from that first meeting.

16:06And then obviously the lawyers need to take over, and you negotiate and come up with the deal. And Gordon got involved, and he goes, I don't even know if you're going to sign the deal. And he sent over a video he made for us. I'm ready to show everybody what I use at home. We didn't even have a deal with him yet, but he took that chance on us. And he's awesome. You know, he calls me like, I'm like, dude, you're stalking me almost. But he wants the numbers. He's like, you know, he'll be like, how's Prime Day going? And, you know, so it's cute, but it's like, wow, the biggest chef in the world, one of the biggest stars in the world, he's that invested in the company that, you know, I started.

16:47And it's like, it's a lot of pinch me moments, you know. Every now and then I'll wake up like some hotel and I'll be like, wait a minute. Am I still back at that old company? Was it all a dream? But because of that involvement, it's obviously put Hexclad on the map. And, you know, where would we be? I think we'd still be a big company without Gordon. I think the reason why we are the fastest growing cookware pretty much globally now at this point, I think that's because of the association and the great partnership with Gordon.

17:22Nik:brands like third love liquid ivy and neuro gum all swear by instant they've tripled their email revenue and some like karen kane even see a 5x increase why because ai can build hundreds of versions you'll never have time to make while you're running your brand instant is running the experiments figuring out what works and then continuously optimizing to keep conversions growing bfcm's over and your next growth run starts now grab a demo by december 31st and get 50 % off your first 60 days at instant.one slash Sharma. Earlier today, Ryan was talking about how they don't discount at all. And Hexclad, I believe, started heavily in Costco through roadshows and touring Costco's.

18:05Nik:And you mentioned Prime Day as an opportunity where Hexclad does huge numbers. We're going into Q4 now. I'm curious, what are your thoughts on sales and promotional strategy? Okay. So we obviously, like many companies, a significant amount of revenue, I don't want to say the exact number, but a significant amount will happen in November, December. And obviously there is a prime day bump. I actually believe in promotions. I hate to even call them discounts. It's discount reminds me of like bruised fruit at the market. So we come up with a strategy early on because obviously with our product, we have to produce months in advance.

18:54So we come up with an offering strategy for things like Prime Day. So a couple times a year, we do have what we call a promotion. What we want is we want to come with something that's very compelling. Now, obviously, you spend the year filling up the funnel. but there's also that there's people that I wouldn't even say are in the funnel at any point that I have to buy something I got to get my wife something I've got to get somebody something and guess what they listen to Gordon Ramsay or maybe they listen to one of our Michelin starred chefs or they see Hallie Beaver using our cookware or you know Courtney Cox or all these celebrities that by the way we don't pay it the only one we've done any partner with is is Hayley Bieber.

19:38And after she used our stuff for a couple of years. So our strategy is to come up with certain promotions because we actually, um, but we have a rather significant AOV, as you know, our LTV is almost double our AOV. And we know that we're going to get you back because you're satisfied with the product. So I do feel that without cheapening your brand, compelling promotion will bring somebody into the fold. And now I want to own that. When I think of us, somebody said to me, do you want to be the Apple in the kitchen space? I'm like, no, I don't want to be Apple because Apple buys shit that wears out in three years and you got to buy it again.

20:28And if you're part, I'm about to call it a cult, but then I keep buying the phone over and over again. So I guess I'm part of the cult too. But what I want to do is give you something that you're going to use for a lifetime. All our products have lifetime guarantees. So I don't want you to buy it again. What I want you to do is I want you to buy my knives, or I want you to buy my pepper mill, or I want you to buy my cutting boards. So some people say that's a stupid strategy. I don't believe in planned obsolescence. so often I'll go the the company that from when I was young was Sony like my dad my uncle they would just go buy Sony products because they knew Sony was good and they backed the product so you didn't have to you know at that time go buy a magazine to do your research you just go to you know whatever Best Buy and you go where's Sony and and you take it I would like people to look at it like look at us like that and go oh if it's for the kitchen I'm just going to buy hex class stuff because it's the best.

21:26Nik:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I would say as your business has grown, you're now a billion dollar business, you've still had insane growth over the last few years too, which is wild. But you touched on it a little bit, but as a billion dollar business, how are you finding new audiences of customers at that same level of scale, which is still allowing you to keep growing at such a consistent rate? So, you know, with this, I kind of look at it like three ways, like where we, you know, I can get revenue in the company three ways. Now, I can get the new customer with a hero product. I can retain my existing customer and bring him into new categories that we started.

22:12And then I can open new marketplaces. So at Hexclad, we've done all three. Now, the great thing is we know our average customer, it's cookware. So probably it is, you know, over 35 is our average age before somebody invests in good cookware. Though we keep skewing younger and younger, which is really interesting because most cookware companies like their average customer is like 45, 48. So somebody is becoming 35 every day. So I need to start interacting with that person at a young age, which is why I'm like, we do challenges on MasterChef Junior. We'll seed product to 10-year-old influencers because we want people to know when you get to the point that you're going to have that product, you go of Hexclad because they're the best, just like you want an iPhone when you're 10 years old.

23:08So we are working on developing a new customer base. What we're not doing is looking for new sales channels. We have one retail partnership you mentioned. We do work with Costco and it's been amazing. And everything else is either hexclad.com or Amazon. Then the other two things are if you keep bringing new quality products to market and you take care of your customer, it drives me crazy when people don't have the utmost respect for your customer. It's like I will bend over backwards. I still do customer service calls. Don't need to do them anymore, but I will do them, or I'll write people an email.

23:49I can't answer all of them, but I'll get people on LinkedIn complaining about a pan, and I'll respond to them sometimes. Um, but I wanted people to know, cause I've had people then screenshot it and put it up on Facebook. The CEO reached out to me when I treat the customer that way, they keep buying new products. And then you open new markets. We have an amazing product. I'll do this. I'll pat myself on the back. I didn't invent the technology. I created the company based on that technology. But what we do is as we're opening new markets, Europe now we're crushing UK, Australia. you. We are launching in China.

24:26We just launched in Japan this year. We will be launching in the Middle East, in South Africa, possibly India at the very end of the year. So we're opening these new territories as well. So our strategy, which is really great, has like cross geographies in a way, which is good. And by the way, it doesn't hurt that they know Gordon everywhere. He showed up in Korea, and it was like the Beatles going to Shea Stadium. They were mobbed to see him. So it's kind of like a cheat code. That's amazing.