Aaron Sorkin: Well There You Have It (Re-Release)

28:37Rob Lowe:Did you know that I was in the audience of her high school gymnasium when she made her acting debut? I did not know that. Tell us about that. I so I and Allison I only did the math and put it all together years into the show and I was like you're from Dayton I'm from Dayton where'd you go to high school Miami Valley high school oh yeah I remember I I didn't go there that was the fancy like fancy school and um I was only there once I I was in their gymnasium and they were putting on a production of a funny thing happened on the way to the forum and Allison looked at me with those big eyes and said, I was in that play and it was my acting debut.

29:18Oh God. Holy cow. What are the, what are the odds? Uh, the, the odds are very long, uh, on that. Uh, did you know that Allison was on her way to being like a serious world-class figure skater? Uh, something terrible happened. Her parents were having a backyard party, and the phone rang inside the house, and Allison ran to get it and went through a glass door into the kitchen. Then she bled a lot, and that was the end of her figure skating career, which I'm sorry about. But if that's what got her to be an actress, then in the end, I won.

30:04Rob Lowe:that you that brings a whole new meaning to her performance in i tanya you know that's right i hadn't even thought of that uh watching right yeah i hadn't even thought of that yeah it really does doesn't it oh my god that's amazing i hadn't thought about i wonder if she channeled that for like how do you how much she deeply resents her kid yeah yeah uh then there with your audition, my friend. I was going to ask you, because what people don't realize is you, when you, when you, first of all, everybody has to read for anything Aaron does, as they should, and it's, I would, and you read with them.

30:44Rob Lowe:I read with you for my audition for Sam. Yes. And when I walked into the casting session, and, you know, out the table is the session sheet who's coming in that day, and I saw your name, and I said, you've got to be kidding. First of all, Rob's not going to read. And second of all, Rob Lowe can't be in the show. He's a movie star. He's going to take all the focus in every scene. It'll throw the whole thing out of balance. And you came in, and as soon as you were done and walked out, I said, listen, he has to play this part. Nobody else can do it. That's exactly what, I mean, he's got to do this.

31:31We've got to get him. That's how you were cast. It became an imperative.

31:36Rob Lowe:First of all, I was so, because, you know, as an actor at a certain point, you know, most actors don't want to audition anymore for good reason. It's nerve wracking. It's hard. Your ability to audition often has no translation to your ability to do the job, actually. Exactly right. And you have a body of work that we can look at and, you know, come to some kind of judgment. but they sent me this script and it was, I was, and I, and I don't think I've ever had it since honestly, where I read it and I was like, Oh yeah, I'm, I'm the only guy, I'm the only guy that can play this. Like I literally thought there'll be other version iterations of it.

32:20Rob Lowe:Sure. Somebody could do it. But I know, I knew in my bones immediately how, what, where I just like saw full field of view. So I was really excited to come in. It was clear that you saw the, that you saw the whole board in Artsville planning parlance. It was clear that you were excited to come in. And that, by the way, that is also something. When you see an actor of your stature, very happy to come in and read. It's not like we got a call saying Rob Lowe is interested and we said, well, he's going to need to come in and read. It's the first I knew of your interest in this was when I walked into the room that day.

33:14That's unbelievable. I went from this couldn't possibly work to this is the only thing that could possibly work.

33:25Rob Lowe:that is that i i also remember um there were a lot of people in the room and you know it's that big speech where sam you know mistakes uh you know uh allison smith for being a school teacher when she's actually leo's daughter and steps in it badly and it got a big laugh at the end and And a big laugh. And I'll never forget you turning to whoever was there representing the higher ups. And you said, I told you the scene was funny. Do you remember that? I don't remember that. I took credit for your audition. No, no, no. It was great because I was like, oh, okay. Because I found it funny. I always, I mean, I think the people who do your stuff the best are the people who find the effervescent funny stuff and it comes naturally to them.

34:21Rob Lowe:And it was patently clear to me that, you know, obviously it's real and it's grounded, but it should be fucking hilarious. And when you said it was funny, it was clear to me that there are other people that could read that same scene on the page and not see where the humor is. I'll bet you that is what happened, that other people had come in and it had not been funny, and then you just parked, this is bad on so many levels, in the bleachers. I remember, I have to say, it was, that was a career, it was one of the most fun things in my career, was auditioning for the West Wing. Really was. It was challenging.

35:05Seeing you do the West Wing was one of the most fun things in mind.

35:07Rob Lowe:oh well i mean and then you know we went a lot not a lot of people know that we went to london together after the west wing and did a few good men are you aware of what of what happened to me on opening night god no god what story am i about to hear well first let's just give some background yes uh um we did uh the few good men had never been in london never been on the west end um So we did it with Rob Starring and an otherwise British cast. We did it at the Royal Haymarket Theater, a beautiful theater with Oscar Wilde's theater. And now I'm about to get the hell scared out of me. What happened on opening night?

35:54I was there. Everything seemed fine.

35:57Rob Lowe:I think later on when I came up to you and told you what had happened, I think you might have stepped out for a cigarette and missed. That's possible. Well, here's what had happened. There had been a moment in rehearsals that had never really gotten the laugh that we all wanted. It was opening night. Now, for those of you who don't know, in England, all the critics come on opening night. On Broadway, you do what's called previews, and you never know. They could be – you could have one on one night, and two weeks later, you don't know when the – They're coming four or five nights before opening so that they can have their pieces ready for opening night.

36:34Yes, but you're right. In the West End, they still all come on opening night.

36:38Rob Lowe:Which makes it tremendously stressful. Like, it's – the stakes are massive. Yeah. And there was one – it was such an innocuous moment. I can't even remember what it was. But for the first time, this little mini moment worked, and it got a reaction. and I felt so good about it that I think I allowed myself to maybe not concentrate as well as I should have. And the next thing I know, I have an actor on the press, I'm prosecuting him and I see his face go white and I realize I've jumped three pages ahead. Did you know this? I waited a while before telling me that. I just don't remember anything about that.

37:26Rob Lowe:I don't remember anything about that. Okay, so I'm not kidding. This is 100 % true story. And I'll never forget it. Time slows down. Now, I don't need to tell you. You fucking wrote it. You understand this. There's a lot of exposition that needs to be told.

37:48Rob Lowe:I just cut two pages out of it. so I I'm like okay all right chill get it together chill and I was like so I really committed like uber committed like over committed to this really long walk across the stage and then this really long look out into the audience as I was trying to figure out what the fuck I was going to do. And the tension was like thick because it was clearly an acting choice. And I was clearly had my faculties. And then I came back. And there's no one who can come to your help at this point, because there are a lot of people on stage during that trial. No one can help you out.

38:37Not the judge, not the witness. No, no one can help you.

38:41Rob Lowe:No one. You're the one asking the questions. okay and yeah and i and i in the most succinct way i could think of i was like let me backtrack for a moment corporal lieutenant okay okay you did the right thing and and and we we got on the road we got back on the road very quickly. And then when I turned up stage to go back, no further questions, by the way, it was the most exhilarating, no further questions that have ever come out of an actor's mouth. And I walked back to the defense table and these actors' eyes were like saucers. And no one was the wiser. I mean, literally no one knew other than the actors, the audience never knew, the critics never knew, you would have known, thank God, you were getting a cigarette.

39:44Wow, thank God, indeed. The things that happen on stage, I've had a play on Broadway, had it for a year and a half until things shut down on March 13th until all theaters shut down, and we'll be back again when New York is back again. But the day after the shooting in Las Vegas, remember the giant, two people killed concert in Las Vegas? That was a Friday night. On Saturday night, at around 10.30, which is about 10 minutes before our play, before T 'Kill and Mockingbird comes down, in Times Square, a motorcycle backfired. And everyone in Times Square, and that's a lot of people at 1030 on a Saturday night, started screaming and running.

40:42And if you run west from Times Square on either 44th or 45th Street, the first safe place you're going to find is our theater, the Schubert Theater. That's going to be the first place you're going to run into that's open. Hundreds of people started running into the lobby and banging on the doors to get into the orchestra. They thought they were running away from a gunman. So everyone sitting in the orchestra starts to panic. And at this point, there's just one actress on stage, Celia Keenan-Bolger, playing Scout. And she didn't know what was happening. Just the audience started screaming. she had every reason to believe that there was somebody in our theater with a gun or a knife that they were about to jump on stage.

41:30She clears the stage. The curtain comes down. Somehow, somehow they got everything under control. But all I remember thinking is, I'm sure that wasn't the first time a motorcycle backfired in Times Square. It's just the first time everyone assumed it was someone with a gun.

41:48Rob Lowe:Yeah. Yeah. The, what happens on stage is, I remember I was, I am still a huge Paul Newman fan. And I, the only real time I ever had any interaction with him was at the Williamstown Theater Festival. And his wife, Joanne was directing something and I was doing a play up there. And I remember - You were doing Chekhov there, weren't you? I was doing Chekhov with Christopher Walken. That's right. And, um, and I remember Christopher Walken. Oh, I've got, I got, I got a couple of good ones. I got a couple of good ones. I'm going to share. They're so good. Oh, they're so good. But, um, yeah, I should take over this interview.

42:30I want to talk to you.

42:31Rob Lowe:Yeah, you should. Bill, believe me, you wouldn't mean that. Alec Baldwin did it. Alec took this whole thing over. He took the reins right from me. I was just, you know, yeah. So Newman was like, I love that you're doing the theater. Cause you'll always have it to come back to and not enough people do it. And it's just you. It's just you up there, and you never know what is going to happen. Do you know – so on A Few Good Men, apparently, I realized this during the run, there's a couple that's famous for sitting in the royal box and having sex during the show. Do you know about this? Jesus. No, I didn't know about that.

43:11I sure knew about the Royal Box, and I thought that was cool. And just very quickly, for your listeners, there are a couple of theaters in the West End in London that have the royal designation. The Royal Haymarket, where we were, is one of them. And I'm not – honestly, I'm not exactly sure what that means, except that there is a royal box reserved for royalty. And now you say it's also reserved for something else.

43:38Rob Lowe:Well, so, and it's in where they're situated is always perfectly in your sight line. If you're, if you're standing profile to profile center stage and which would make sense, you'd give the queen the best seats in the house. so um yeah it's always empty but apparently i you can if you know somebody or pay somebody you can get it anyway long story short um i looked off one one day and uh and there was a a couple having sex doing a very specific sex act and and then i were like whatever and then so at intermission the stage manager went to them and said, you cannot do that. And so they just merely changed the sex act in the second part of the play.

44:25Rob Lowe:Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh yeah. But apparently. Like their thing is they like to go to theaters. And in some public way, do this, they want the actors to see them. And they, and, and it's known, like if you're a West end veteran, You're like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. It's like, did you know that Judi Dench— Is this something you knew about before you walked on stage that night? I did know. I learned about it all afterwards. Oh, here's a tradition you should know about here at the Haymarket. That's exactly what it is. I did not know. Do you know that Judi Dench, whenever she's in the West End, has a tradition where she, if she can, leaves the show she's starring in while it's running?

45:11Rob Lowe:and runs across the street and does a walk-on part on another show? Like that's her thing? I didn't know that, no. Isn't that crazy? Isn't that genius? It is genius. But I want to hear about you and Christopher Walken doing Chekhov at Williamstown. Okay, so. So.

45:35Rob Lowe:So Chris, as you know, has a manner of speaking that is very enigmatic. And he used to have a moment that I would come to the wings to watch every night. And I never knew why I particularly liked it. It was just something about the way he said it. And it was basically in the play, the village is on fire and they're all sheltering in place in an attic. And he's playing Vershinian. He's sheltering in place with the family and someone walks in and Chris's line is, how's the fire? and there's something about the way he said it that i found so compelling and could never put my finger on until the day i picked up what i thought was my script it was his and it was open to how's the fire and he had crossed out the word fire in the script and above it written the word barbecue.

46:52Rob Lowe:And I was like, that makes, the other thing he does, which is amazing is, and this would drive you, maybe it wouldn't drive you berserk. How would you feel if you gave me that big Sam Seaborn speech and I took out all the punctuation and memorized it in any way? He had another, there was a line, this is a fucking Anton Chekhov. I would feel bad. So it's Anton Chekhov. The dialogue was. Important dramatist. Important dramatist. And the theme was, you know, they want to go to Moscow. That's where people are smart. You know, that's where people are worldly. And one of the characters was like, well, actually, I don't believe in that.

47:42Rob Lowe:We know a lot of useless things as well. So I remember this very vividly. The dialogue is written by Anton Chekhov that Christopher Walken had to say was, well, there you have it, period. You know a lot of useless things, period. Chris Walken would say, well, there you have it. You know a lot of useless things.

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51:05now speaking of walking and out baldwin you two have hosted sml a number of times yes yes um oh we know a lot of stories but i'm curious just walk us through the monologue okay um are writers pitching you stuff are you saying I'd like to talk about this how's that working the monologue

51:30Rob Lowe:first of all every time I've done it it's the very first thing I ask about and every single time the answer is the same yes we'll get to it it is the absolute last thing anybody thinks about or gives you the absolute dead last You cannot get them to focus on it at all. That doesn't scare the hell out of you? Yes, yes. Yes, it does. We're going to reach like 60 % of our judgment on how good a host you were based on your monologue. As unfair as that is, you've got another 90 minutes to go. Well, it makes perfect sense when you think about it, like from their perspective, that's what 5 % of the show if they want to make sure they have a show.

52:27Rob Lowe:yeah and and and then i'm not i'm never really i always feel like the monologues were written by the head writers and not the staff and the staff is so competitive and everybody's trying to get their stuff on that it just it kind of falls sort of through the cracks and they feel and i think part of is they're trying to get to know the host also i think is this the best way for them to get their stuff on to wreck something you like. Yes. And they're great about that because the, you know, the host does run the show really and truly. And they're great about, about deferring to the host taste. But the three times I did it, the monologue, well, I remember what the time I hosted it when we were doing West Wing was, was me giving a tour of the white house, including the room where they quote, blow the president.

53:26Right. Right. And you also, because you did a church chat, right? Oh, yeah. Well, that's. Dana? Yeah. So, well, I mean, like, do you come on saying, I'd really like to do a church chat if there's an established character, a recurring character? You do.

53:44Rob Lowe:The one I remember with what started my relationship with Mike Myers, I came on and he was like, do you want to do a Wayne's World or a Sprockets? Sprockets. And I was actually a Sprockets guy, more than a Wayne's World guy, ironically. I love Sprockets. Sprockets is the greatest. I played, I think, a Belgian choreographer who indented an international dance craze called The Trout. I remember. And you also, my friend, just perfect for Sprockets. I mean, come on. Just that sort of perfect chiseled looking person. did you when you were doing studio 60 did you did you get to sit back with lauren and drink amstels under the bleachers no i didn't i've i've met lauren michaels once um at a dinner that uh scott sassa had uh at his house uh for some people come on you've not met lauren michaels more than that?

54:45Yeah, no, I haven't. Um, and obviously I'm a huge admirer. Uh, it's, um, I'm not sure how many people know just how difficult doing that show is SNL and to do it for 40 something years now. Uh, uh, and, and keep it at this level is, uh, I just got unmatched in television, you know,

55:13Rob Lowe:Lauren is the ghost that haunts every podcast I do. I mean, Lauren comes up, I'm not kidding. In, in almost every interview I do every single one, because he's, I mean, if you're even at all funny or interested in comedy, you love Lauren. And then if you know, Lauren, he's the most quotable person who ever lived. So in fact, Amy Poehler and I, when we were doing, um, perks and rec, we were going to, we wanted to do a fake Lauren Michaels, Twitter account with some of his amazing truths. And by the way, did you ever, did you know that, that they, when they made Parks and Rec, the thinking behind it was they all love the West Wing so much that if the drama took place in the White House, where would the comedy take place?

56:01Rob Lowe:And they figured it would take place in the Parks and Rec department. Did you know that? Well, that's incredibly flattering at the show was, was on their mind at all when they were conceiving of it. The show was fantastic. And it's funny because you, and I really would like to talk about Parks and Rec. But you were on two shows that are Valentine's to public service. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Isn't it weird? It's weird. It's, I feel great satisfaction in that. And also because I really think I'll put the West Wing up there with any drama and I'll put Parks up there with any comedy, you know, and to be able to.

56:48I agree. And I also think that there have been episodes of Parks, scenes in Parks that in that moment were the best drama on TV. And I think that there were very funny moments on the West Wing. But that Parks and Rec cast was another incredible cast. Yep. I don't know if you know this, but... Nick Offerman. Nick Offerman. Yes, he's in the West Wing. Yes. He's Pluie the Wolf, right? Pluie the Wolf, yes. And I didn't know this, I think, until last year, that Anna Gasteyer was the Butterball Hotline operator. No. Yeah, she was. I'm sure what happened was this, that the reason why I didn't know it was her was that we hadn't cast the part by the time we shot – we're shooting Martin's side of the phone call.

57:45And we only ever hear her, so it was probably an AD reading in the operator. And then somehow we cast Anna Gasteyer without my knowing about it. And if I'd known, I would have written an episode called The Butterball Hotline Operator.

58:00Rob Lowe:Yeah, part two. But back to parts of rec, I want to know, do they come to you at the end or in the middle of the second season and say, we're going to go in a whole new direction and this is what it's going to look like? How much of it was envisioned when they came here? Oh, you'll love this. So being a veteran of NBA. Don't tell me all of it. Don't tell me that Mike had like an outline and everything. No, no, no, no. It's like politics. You don't want to see all the sausages made a lot of the times. Okay. And so I had just finished doing John Robin Bates' show. I know who you love, Brothers and Sisters.

58:44Yeah, so I do love.

58:45Rob Lowe:You love Robbie. We love our Robbie Bates. And I wanted to do a comedy. And I love 30 Rock. Love, love, love 30 Rock. Love Tina. Love Alec. And I was like, I want to be on 30 Rock. Is there any way I can be on 30 Rock? And the network was like, no. how about no how about you're not going to be on that show and i was like no and then the and then but they were like but would you ever consider going on parks and recreation and which i was not that familiar with at that point and but i knew that people loved it i knew it was like a cult really really cult loyal fan base but certainly not like a big hit but like I knew I was supposed to like it.

59:30Rob Lowe:How about that? You know shows you know you're supposed to like? Yeah. That was one of them. And so I watched it. Obviously, I fell in love with it. Then they went to Mike and said, hey, is there a world in which Rob Lowe comes on to Parks and Rec? And Mike was like, what the fuck? What? I mean, what? Because he wanted Adam Scott to come on. Uh-huh. And so there's this weird, like, shotgun marriage thing happening. But everybody loves everybody and nobody's against it. But it's kind of odd. And so I meet with Mike. And we have a great time. And Amy kind of just happens to drop by to basically make sure that I'm not an axe murderer.

1:00:24Rob Lowe:It's clear. And so we make a deal for me to do six episodes, period. Six. And if they like me at the end of six and I like them at the end of six, we'll do more. And I loved it from day one. And there came a time where I was playing, my character had the flu. And I was doing a scene where I was looking in the mirror and I ad-libbed, stop. pooping. You ad-libbed that? Yes. That's sort of a Hall of Fame moment for Parks and Rec. Stop pooping is an ad-lib. That's amazing. And that was the moment that Mike Schur said, asked me to come back on the show full-time. And I did. And we're happy to have done it.

1:01:15The rest of us are happy that you did it too. Obviously, the very early turning point for the character was you're on the date with Rashida and you explain why you're so optimistic that you were born with this blood disease. And so like every day just feels like a miracle. And it was a great, great moment for her. And so the audience and Rashida kind of fall in love with you at the same time.

1:01:46Rob Lowe:They knew what they were doing. They really did. And it was, and you know what, Aaron, it's like when you, it's like all the shows that people like come from come from a source and a real strong point of view mike sure on on perks you on and everything you do and it's you feel it you know when there's a cook a chef in the kitchen you know it yeah and the the gift that mike has and that greg daniels has to. It's so hard to be hip and have heart at the same time as TV show. And that's what Parks and Rec did. And there's a whole new group of people now. My daughter is 19. She and her friends, they're obsessed with Parks and Rec.

1:02:35They think it's on now. They don't think they're watching the show from a few years ago. They think it's on now. They think the West Wing is on now. and it's this new show that they're really into. They're not certain how it is you're on both.

1:02:49Rob Lowe:What I love is, and I wonder if, okay, I've been on TV and done movies a long time, but I'd never had a catchphrase. Right. And that's not really what you traffic in. You're not like a big catchphrase guy. So of course I didn't have any on the West Wing. Was Ann Perkins yours, or was that written in the script as Ann period Perkins period? Ann Perkins was me. that was me because it came out of my Tom Cruise impersonation. I was impersonating Tom Cruise to Mike in the first meeting. I don't know why. I love Tom. I'm going to say, as you know, he's the last real movie star. Yeah. But can't you see Tom doing that?

1:03:35Think about Tom going, Aaron Sorkin. Right?

1:03:39Rob Lowe:Yeah. With that Uber. So that's where that came from. And then literally, the word literally, Mike, when I wrapped the show, gave me his framed original notes from meeting with me from that first meeting. And in it, he had written, he says literally all the time. So that's where that came from. And yes, two days ago, I was surfing and I got out of the water and there were these 14, had to have been no more than 14 years old boys, a gaggle of them. And they started shaking when they saw me. And they were like, Chris Traeger? I said, and I went, literally. And they like lost their minds. And it was so fun to have a catchphrase.

1:04:26I'll bet they did. That's fantastic.

1:04:30Rob Lowe:Now, Aaron, before we go, I need to hear about the trial of Chicago 7. I'll tell you quickly, just because the reason I have to go is to get on a marketing call with Netflix about the trial of the Chicago 7, which is my sophomore directorial effort. I wrote it to the true story of a terrible riot that broke out in Chicago at the Democratic National Convention. confrontation between protesters and police and the National Guard, which is now starting to look too familiar on the news. And then this insane conspiracy trial that followed of the leaders of the protest. And it's Mark Ryland, Sasha Baron-Conetti, Redmayne, Jeremy Strong, Frank Langella, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Michael Keaton.

1:05:24It's a big cast.

1:05:27Rob Lowe:Aaron, you got to get better actors next time. Jesus Christ. I know. I'm having bad luck with actors. I have had the greatest luck with actors, including and especially you, my friend. I owe you a great deal. You're going to be very proud of the West Wing Get Out the Vote special. You really are. And by the way, I think we're going to drop this podcast the week that the West Wing is out. So if you're listening to this right now, I think it's on HBO Max starting today. HBO Max starting October 15th. Yep, October 15th. And I want to do part two with you at some point because I want you to talk, I want to hear about your version of directing.

1:06:11Rob Lowe:I really do. I want to hear, I want to hear we have way more I didn't even get to talk to you about Moneyball I didn't get to talk to you about winning your Oscar I didn't get to talk to you about your Steve Jobs commencement speech Oh well I would love to talk to you about any of this any of this anytime you want okay? okay because I mean in all seriousness every one of those subjects are podcast worthy we've got to do part two are you down? I am down for part two All right. Pen me in, not even pencil. All right. I got the pen. All right. Thank you for being here. Appreciate you. Love you, brother.

1:06:48Rob Lowe:Bye. Thanks so much, Rob. Take it easy. Well, I just did my little bit to help the trial of the Chicago 7. I let Aaron out of a talk that could have gone on for many, many more hours so he can go work on the ad campaign. So when you see the ad campaign, know that I had something to do with it because there's so much more to talk about with him. I find him deeply, deeply fascinating. And he is a character himself, as you now know, having listened to him for this amount of time. And one of the nicest men ever. So part two will happen at some point. My guess it'll be when he's nominated for an Oscar.

1:07:29Rob Lowe:I'm just saying. As one of the West Wing characters always said, I'm just saying. I think it's in the offing for him. And we will reconvene then. But in the meantime, I will see you all next week on Literally with Rob Lowe. You have been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe. Produced and engineered by me, Devin Torrey-Briatt. Executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile. Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco. And Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Stitcher. The supervising producer is Aaron Blair. Talent producer, Jennifer Samus. Please rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts. And remember to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:08:18Rob Lowe:Is it possible for AI to work in the enterprise? The short answer is yes. The long answer is, oh, yes. Users can pick the AI providers they prefer, and you can decide which data is off limits, monitor all AI activity, and control every detail. This is Enterprise AI from Ireland. AI at its best by keeping out the worst. Scaled for the enterprise. From Ireland. All new drinks are now at McDonald's. Like the strawberry watermelon refresher and the mango pineapple refresher with popping boba, you've got ice cold drinks for every moment. Refreshers contain caffeine.