Benji and Joel Madden (of Good Charlotte): Gentleman at All Costs

0:00Like a dream, like I've had a fever dream. I was hiding in a shower with Benji and Drew Barrymore.

0:16Hey, everybody. Welcome to literally—it's always fun when we have people in the bunker. In the bunker. And two of my favorite people, Joel and Benji Madden, the doppelgangers, two for the price of one. I've gotten to know these two amazing dudes, and they're like real gifts in my life. And we're just going to have a—we're bro-ing out. I'm just saying this literally today, it's a bro-fest. And we're going to talk about our wives. We've got great wives. We're going to talk about them, try to get in the good graces of our great wives. So stay tuned. Here we go.

1:09We're rolling, right? Yeah. Okay. We're a great start to a podcast. All right. Good. Because we are very close. Right? Well, dude. I mean, would you say we're best friends? or we're in best friends category. Yeah, but we sort of operate differently though because we don't have to like text all day or even if you don't see me for six months. Dude, I'm like Potoxi Phil. Like the fucking, like you reach in and you pull me out of my lair. If you see your shadow. Then we're friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we see the shadow. And if you don't, you go back in. I do. You go back in. Because, and Joel doesn't get to hang with us as much.

1:51I know. But I'm your other half. So if you're, we try to explain this and very few people get it. Venge is somewhere. I'm there. Yeah. If you're close to me, you're close to Joel. I love that. And if I'm somewhere, he's there. We are each other's proxy. I love that. Yeah. And avatars and. Yeah. Do you guys are the matrix? Sort of. We do live in our own sort of little sort of outside the matrix. Yeah. We live in our own bubble. But I feel really close to you. I always, like, we have, I do, I feel really close to you. I'm getting all warm and busy. I do. But I really love you. But I love you because you don't, I don't have to be any different.

2:31Like, I can go, I'm going to say go dark. I don't go dark. But like, you know, I retreat. Sometimes I retreat back to my little, you know, world. And, you know, you don't hear from me. I don't come out. You know, you don't hear. And I think that's me. Yeah. I'm the one I feel like, oh, Jesus, I haven't reached out to anybody. I'm like, because I just like hermit out. Because you're a fake extrovert. That's right. You're an introvert that has, you know your job, right? And whatever you're doing, you have to be an extrovert. That's right. And you're a gentleman at all costs. That's one thing I love about it.

3:08Yeah, at all costs. Gentleman at all costs. That's a good title. Yeah. Gentleman at all costs, for sure. Gentleman at all costs. Despite. Despite. Ooh, I'm going to use that. Despite the world, I am a gentleman. There's a title for this episode anyway. Yeah. Gentleman on all costs. Absolutely. And I was telling Joel, Rob has taught me all about gentleman stuff. About gentlemanly things. Tell me, like, okay. Give us a list. Give us a short list. Okay. So this is stuff that you feel I've taught you about gentleman stuff. Gentlemanly things. The ways of, the way, more articulate. Would you say it's like the ways of a gentleman?

3:46The ways of a gentleman. Okay. Yeah, because you're sort of a statesman. Yeah, you're classy. But you're not. You've got class. My time with you that I get to spend with you, and we spend, I think, we get a lot of very, we really connect. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, um, one wasn't, I, I, all the dream, I had dreams of, of sort of these, um, aspects of life, but I didn't have sort of like a, a model, a Sherpa because it's intimidating. You can't just start playing. You can start playing golf for everyone out there. You can start playing golf, but it's intimidating if you don't know your way around the, yeah, it is.

4:28It actually is. You go to a country and you're like, God, I do not belong here. Yeah, and if someone tells me, if someone rubs me the wrong way, I'm out. I'm just going to be like, oh, oh, yeah. So yeah, like I will tuck my shirt in, but don't say like, you know, it's kind of like, oh, hey, man, just just to let you know. It's kind of a thing like, you know, and I'll do, of course. Yeah. You know, right. But I need to be kind of like, I also have a little bit, I think. Chip on your shoulder. Yeah. Chip on my shoulder. I think music kids are like low self-esteem kids. Same with actors. Yeah. So you kind of need to be, we get really quickly like, well, whatever.

5:09Fuck you. I'm out. I don't need to be here. You know, so when you have like a great, you know, like guide to be like, let me show you about cigars. And you're kind of like, well, I've always loved the smell of cigars. Yeah, I've had a few cigars, but they were probably not great. You know? They're good now, though. When you learn fantastic. You are a quick learner. I mean, we get out on the golf course, and my man, A, his golf game is bananas for as new as he is to the game. It's crazy, yeah. I'm passionate. And the cigar game. You know, I'm a great - A1, right? Yeah, top level. Top level. Yeah.

5:53I definitely try hard. Like in life, like if I get into something, I really go down the rabbit hole. You're a fast learner for things you're interested in. Yeah, definitely. The things I'm interested in and the things I'm not interested in, I couldn't learn to save my life. But the things I'm interested in, I want to be, I like, I like to be a student. Right. Yeah. You sort of, I could go in on a whole list. I mean, how do you pick your students? My students? Yeah. Well, Mr. Skywalker, my students. How do you pick your younger gentleman? My younger gentleman. Well, listen, you... How do you pick your younger gentleman?

6:36Well, first of all, but I learned from you guys. Destiny? Dude, I've learned from you guys. And what do you think this is? Oh, yeah. That's a sick tattoo, dude. That's a great tattoo. This is my 60th birthday... Birthday gift. Birthday gift. Yeah, it's great. I mean, and... It looks great, man. Right? Like classy. Like a little peaky peaky. Yeah, a little peak out. A little peaky peaky out and then then womp. And then, but here's the other part is it's up high enough that on a golf shirt. You could cover it. Right. It's smart. Right? So, but that's, I'm learning from me and I'm learning the watch game.

7:14The bling game. You guys have been. Got the bling game though. I was, I definitely. You've been in the game, bro. I've been in the bling game. I've been in it, but I had to up my, I had to up it. Just a little update, operating system. Yeah, I had to up it with some of the stuff that you guys got going on, for sure. Yeah, he's the watch guy. I mean, I have great watches, but he helped me get all of them. How did you get into watches? I bought my very first, like, so I didn't know anything about watches. But I always, you know, I had, like, things in my head as a kid that were seemed out of reach at the time.

7:47Yeah. So, nice car or car collection. Things you dream about. aspirational aspirational things and I always felt from a young age it's really important for us as men to be aspirational and and not really in a way that's not too flashy too but and also too braggy yeah not too braggadocious so why so yeah why did I start immediately you know get a diamond chain or wanted to buy a nice watch and you you go into these different places, these different worlds, and you don't know anything about it. And you just got to kind of find your way and go down the rabbit hole. But I always felt like it was really important to be aspirational because when I was just getting by or surviving and, you know, working jobs, whatever, and a guy would come in wearing a really nice watch or, or in a beautiful car or something, you would look at it and you'd be like, wow, that's awesome.

8:49I, one day, you know, I'm going to keep working. I'm going to work hard. And it was like, and that's obviously not what life's all about, but like it's aspirational. So here's what's interesting, what you just said, because I totally relate, which goes back to why we're friends, is you look at that. You come from, you guys are from Maryland. Yeah. You guys grew up completely working class. Yep. And no connections to fucking fuck all. Anywhere. Anywhere. Yeah. But even then, when a dude rolled up with a great watch, you're like, yeah. Wow. Yeah, I'm going to bust my ass. And I'm going to, as opposed to, oh, that rich motherfucker, he did that, whatever it is.

9:29We heard that. We heard that around us. Were you hearing that around you? You know, that's the thing. Oh, there's a, I think there's two frame of minds. Two frame of minds. There's hopeful and hopeless. So in my opinion, it's just I either see something and if I'm coming from a place of hopelessness, I could never have it. If I'm coming from a place of optimism and hope, I go, wow, that's cool. How do I get that? Right. That's always how we. But there were two things I would always recognize, too. Yeah. How did the person that I saw carry themselves? Yeah. Because you don't respect, you don't look up, I think as young men, you look for other men that you can aspire to, that you can respect.

10:15Right. So when you see someone that has, you know, beautiful things, but they treat their family like shit. Or they're an asshole to the waiter or something. You don't, yeah. Then you go like, oh, like, no, that ain't going to be me. It's embarrassing. Then when you see a guy that's a gentleman that's treating people well and they're close to their family, you go, that's what I want to be like. I think when we were kids, right? So you find your models. And so I think that it wasn't just about the stuff. For me, it's not the watch or the car. It's how the guy acted when he got out of it. It's just cool, yeah.

10:50Yeah, that's for sure. Attitude is everything. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that like I from early age, I was just like, OK, I watched my parents like kill themselves and they I watched them work really, really hard. And I really admired I really admire a lot of things about them. But I think we were always just like we got to be we have to be we got to think bigger. yeah did you guys ever feel like aliens like like like you were dropped into this world that you didn't really belong in and that you were destined for some other thing i always felt like i didn't belong where i was at but i've always felt that way anywhere i'm at still still still so um and that the same token when i go home to maryland i feel very akin to the people there.

11:42So I have a really nice time when I go back home because I, it's very familial to me. It's in you, it's your DNA. Yeah. And everyone, when I go back to Ohio, these are my people. Yeah. I can feel it. Like I have, like, I enjoy the small conversations and interactions with everyone there. Uh, because it reminds me of, of like, of happy times, you know, in a place that I love, but I didn't ever feel like I was going to stay there. Yes I always feel like I'm gonna You know And I never feel like I'm gonna stay anywhere That's interesting So you don't like if And I know you're You're in the process of moving And doing stuff So have you ever felt like Oh this is my home Found your landing spot Yeah Only with my wife and kids Wherever they wanna be I'm happy to be That's great That's Well that's the way to do it Everybody knows that Dad has like His room And there's like Always a suitcase Open with clothes in it and there's like bags like half packed and so I'm always I've always been in a little in transit I've contained it in my life so that it's in one room it's in one room and it's not getting all over my family so they're not like afraid I'm gonna leave but I think moving a lot when we were young we stayed on the move we had to move a lot we were always getting like infected or we had to move or we had to like whatever and I think it like maybe traumatized me and I have like a thing with staying in one place, even though I can live in a house.

13:14We, well, we're moving, but I've, we've lived in only a few houses like with our kids. So is it a thing where you feel like the day is going to come where you're going to have to move somewhere else or that you eventually feel restless and want to move? I actually think I'm pretty settled. Yeah. Like it used to kind of be that, I think. Yeah. It was a little bit trauma stuff. Yeah. But actually now I feel settled, but it still has some like tendencies to keep my space a little bit. It's a bit chaotic if you go in my, but we've contained it to like my little like office man cave. And it's like, it's fine.

13:55I'm more organized than you are. Yeah, you are. Yeah, you're super organized. I'm neater than him. He's very, very OCD. He always laughs at me because if you go into like one of my, like my library or something and you, you know, pick something up and look at it. Oh, this is cool. And put it back. I'll move it right back. I'll move it right back. Two inches. Two inches to where it was. You know? My wife is like that. You know, Cheryl's like that. It's like. She likes to stage things. Stage things. But like, okay, like, like I'm looking at this bottle of water sitting here right now. Like, because it's just not perfectly on.

14:24It's not centered. The center would drive. She'd fix it. Berserk. It would drive a berserk. I mean, we're, you know, the other thing is we're all three married to strong women. Very. I mean, when you think about the – there are a lot of similarities, and all of our similarities are like core stuff about how we view life, how we view success, what we want to do with our time, how we want to invest in others, and what's important to us. And like, you know, a lot of people have different values. They all align. Yeah, right? I think also, too, when you think about the powerful women that are just these forces of nature.

15:07Dude. Like, you're not, you know. And they are, I think all of our wives are interesting in the fact that, too, I think they don't want to be with the pushover guy. Right? So they still need a strong counterpart. But you have to also not have the ego to, oh, we all respect our wives. we they are absolutely our counterpart and we all have a healthy fear yeah of our wives i think i think like i was i was saying i i never i don't know if i ever thought yeah i don't know if i ever thought someone could like keep me right oh honestly you know like i thought i don't know how i felt about it uh it's not that i was i was a relationship guy but then i met nicole and and she absolutely runs the show right but we are partners so there's things there's aspects that i run but there's a whole part of my life that would not work if she wasn't there running it and she gave me a way deeper more richer life because of the aspects of my of my life that she is like she oversees she she runs and and vice versa i think we like work together but she's she's strong.

16:24She's got. Yeah, I respect her and like fear her a little bit. Yeah, I think it's even it's more than just a part of your life. Yeah, it's it's a whole foundation like I like and I feel the same way like Cameron we just when we met it was like the world just went like this. Yeah. And it and it was like over. Yeah, fear strong because it sounds almost like abusive but no, she's a sharp yeah, like respect strong. No, they're formidable. Yes. They're like, you don't want to fuck with them. No, you do not fuck with her. No part of running afoul of either of our three wives. That's the queen. Yeah, they're queens.

17:07They are very, yeah, forces. And you know what else? Yeah, go against my wife. Go against my wife. Good luck.

17:27I don't, yeah, I don't want to tango with Cameron. Do you remember, have you ever heard the story about when Cameron kind of rolled Benji out publicly? Do you remember that dinner we were at where we got introduced to you? Remember it was somebody's birthday party, wasn't it? Yes, hold on. It was Drew Barrymore's or something? It might have been Drew's birthday. I'm trying to think. It was Drew Barrymore's birthday party. And we were all hiding in a shower together? Yes. Do you remember this? Oh, yeah. No, it was. It seems like a dream. Like I've had a fever dream. I was hiding in a shower with Benji and Drew Barrymore.

18:07Okay, no, I totally remember. Was it a surprise party? It was a surprise for Cameron. It was a surprise for Cameron. Yeah, it was a surprise party for Cameron. So Drew introduced you to everyone. That's right. So Drew introduced you. So it was, it was a surprise for Cameron, but it was also the whole thing was sort of a ruse. With the friends. To, to like, like have you meet the friends. All the friends. Right? All the friends. Yeah. That's a fair assessment. Yeah. Right? That was our first time meeting. Yeah. That was our first time meeting. You and I were huddled in a shower. Yeah. We hit it right off.

18:38I mean, when you're in a shower with another dude. Yeah. We hit it right off. We hit it right off. And ever since then, have we, you know, it's been exactly the same. Yeah. First conversations and now. That's true. Obviously, we've gone deeper, but. Yeah. No, and like, we've traveled together. Oh, we've, you know, we've had a good. A lot of great conversations. You know, with no one else, just long. Yeah. But two hours. And that's the thing. I don't like, that's when guys get that. It's super, it's super good. Because I'm super down with surface guy talk, golf talk. I love it. I love it, but I bet I really love it when, you know, guys can kind of get real.

19:24But we do both. We do both. We do both because that one, some days it's just like, that's actually what we need. Yes. We don't need to go too deep. No. You know? No, for sure. Sometimes we just need to watch a game. Most of the time. You know what I mean? That's the other thing. We love our, we love our, so you know, I went to the Super Bowl. Did you go to the Super Bowl? Were you guys there? I didn't go to the Super Bowl. I almost, but decided not to. I thought the Commanders might have had a shot. I was going to go if the Commanders had made it. I was thinking Ravens-Commanders Super Bowl would have been my ultimate.

20:00That's my ultimate dream. I know. That's how we bond on baseball and football and all that. The game we went through last year with those seats that you have. Wasn't that sick? Best baseball watching experience. It's like floor seats at the Lakers. The Rob Lowe seats? Yeah, and Mookie comes up and says, The Rob Lowe Dodger seats? How about when Mookie comes up and says, What's up? And remember when he hit the second home run? And he came and looked at us? And he was like, I love Mookie. He's the best. We have a sick Mookie Betts rookie card collection. No way. Me and Sparrow, yeah. And Rob is texting Dave Roberts.

20:37Yeah. During the game. Only Rob. Only Rob. See? Gentlemen. I love my Dodgers. And Sparrow, your son, I've been hearing it secondhand. Tell me what kind of prospect he is. He's got good natural talent. What's his position? Right now, he's an infielder. But I think he's a pitcher. Wow. Really? He's a good pitcher. But he's just got to grow. He's 15, but he's just got to put size on. You know how it is. Some kids grow faster than others. But he's great. uh and good kid uh amazing he's got character yeah he's cool dude he's uh uh you know i try to be careful talking about him because you know how your kids feel about you out there talking about him and they hate it it's embarrassing it's embarrassing um and he says i'm way over the top uh like i make everything sound great he's like you glaze everything you You know what I mean?

21:39Yeah, amazing. That's amazing. Well, hopeful guy. Hopeful. Hopeful, not hopeless. I believe in mine. You know, I believe in mine. My people, you know. We work our asses off and we go get what we want. So I'm always going to bet on my guys. Yeah, 100%. Well, as his uncle, I can say. But he's good. He's good. He's a good dude. I'm super proud of him. I had an experience one time where I was picking him up from something. And a lady came over and thought that I was— you're his dad. Everyone, if I do anything around the kids that people always think I'm Joel. For sure. And said, hey, I just want to real quick, I just want to let you know my my kid was getting picked on and Sparrow stuck up for him and and it's gotten a way better for him.

22:26And he really made a difference. And I was like, that's I mean, for an uncle, that's like he's a cool ass dude, but he doesn't like anyone talking about him or giving him props. but you know sick music producer really very good music producer natural you should see him hit pads too yeah well he'd hate to hear that because I try to tell someone he boxed he definitely has hands but you know good baseball player and good music producer and all around good guy good dude love hanging out with him a lot I feel like you hang with your sons a lot the same way I hang with mine And that's the other thing we all share in common.

23:10We love hanging with our family. Our kids. So fun. Fucking best. I mean, we're a little farther down than here. You're in such a good age. He's in the thick of it, man. You're in the trenches. Trenches. Five-year-old, one-year-old. Dude. Well, who does my son share a birthday with? That guy, which made me so happy. Uncle Rob. Lucky St. Paddy's Day. Lucky St. Paddy's Day. I feel like this. Really made me so happy. I love that we share that birthday. Your kids are cool. They're good, right? They're good boys. They're great guys. They're so fun. Super cool. Matthew likes to stay more in the cut, though.

23:49He is. Matthew is, you know, he's a lawyer in finance. He knows how to handle himself on camera, but that's not his jam. He likes to fish. Sparrow, he likes to stay in the cut. He's not big on getting out in front. He doesn't love like, like his parents are in entertainment. His granddad is in entertainment. His aunt and uncle are in entertainment. He's around all these entertainers. Yeah. And it feels like so far he's not into the front being out front. Yeah. My daughter, on the other hand, I think she's naturally inclined. Yeah. Well, you can, you know what it is, is you can just feel the energy.

24:32because I always knew Johnny, my youngest. They're like drawn. There's just that they have, it's a certain type of, it's not to say that our other kids don't have, they have a different type of energy. Right. But there's that room charisma thing. Yeah. Some people have that. She's got it. She does. Rattie's for sure got it. She does. She's. And it's like, it just like, you feel like, oh yeah, well there's, that's destiny. If it's there for them. Yeah, it's like they're naturally drawn to interact with people and entertain people in like their own ways. Like I think, yes, or engage with the world in a way that's like, look at me a little bit.

25:13And people want to look at them. Yeah. Like if they're in a line of intriguing. Yeah, there's something there's something intriguing. Yeah, they're just compelling. Yeah. Compelling people. I want to actually touch on that, too, because going back to like how we, you know, met and how we got, you know, really close and became, you know, such great friends. one of the things again when you think back to being a kid and you think about the guy that pulls up in the nice car and then he's not an asshole and he treats everyone well right you find people to aspire to um how close you are and the way your sons talk about you when you're not there and then when you getting to be in the room with you guys and getting to see how you you respect your sons like you you you guys have one of the most like for me when i think about what kind of relationship I want to have with my kids when they grow up.

26:03You guys are not sitting around shaming each other, judging each other, getting after each other. You guys talk almost like peers, but they also respect and look up to you at the same time. It's cool as shit. It's really unique. It's really unique. And I think it's really evolved. I think it has to come from a place where you actually have respected your kids from the day they were born. You can tell they're all they're both like so confident in individuals what do you think that is yeah first of all you guys are making my day to hear that um you know i i do think it's funny i remember and it probably wasn't as profound and isn't as profound as i have made it but i remember back in the day, in the 80s, in the height of all like teen idol fucking it boy shit.

26:55I had a lawyer. And so he's a lawyer. My dad's a lawyer. So he's in show business because he's representing me, but he's also not. He's not an agent, not a producer, but he's a lawyer. Which in my mind means a serious person. Serious guy. Right? Yeah. And he was always with his kids, always going to games, always, always, always about his kids. You go into his office, there'd be things about his kids. He would talk about his kids. It was just so a part of his life. And I'll never forget. And I wasn't married. I wasn't anywhere near getting married. I wasn't thinking about kids, none of it. But I remember him saying, you know, when, when I invest like that in my kids and then they're always, then you, that investment pays off, but you've got to make the investment.

27:45And I just remember going, oh, I'm going to remember that. And it just made sense to me. So, you know, I always felt great about, you know, serving hot lunch, you know, at the school and, and being, raising my hand to be the driver to the field trips. Me too. Do you know what I mean? I dream about it. going on the camping. Like I was, I was the dad that did all that stuff. But you dreamed about it. Yeah. Yeah. And, and listen, we're, I was lucky that I was able to have, I had, I have such empathy for parents who are working so hard that they can't do it. Yeah. So I, I so get that it was a luxury, but also I made a lot of it happen.

28:26Yeah. You make it happen. I mean, I, there, there are movies I didn't do TV shows I didn't do because, and I'm still going through it. Like I'm Sorry, I'm not moving to Australia to do that. Sorry, not doing it. Yeah. So you make those things. And then what you get is what you're talking about, is you have that relationship with your kids and your adult kids. That investment pays you back just in ways you can't even qualify. Because think of it, if you're not there, they're building their own lives every minute of every day. Yeah. And so they're either building it with you or without you. Yeah.