Billy Bush: Trust But Verify

0:00It's gonna be awesome in the end, and if it ain't awesome, it ain't the end. Boom!

0:19Hey, everybody. Welcome to Literally Today. Billy Bush, the Bushman. He's now started Hot Mike with Billy Bush. That's his new podcast. He's been through the ringer with the Donald Trump bus grabbing by the you-know-what tape. And it's always valuable to learn what someone has learned with a very public fall from grace and building their life back. And Billy's done a great job. It's freed him up to do this new podcast where he just truly doesn't give an F and has found his authentic self. And we're going to go back and find out exactly how and why it happened and what it's meant to him. And the other side of it, he's always been one of the friendliest people you're ever going to see on a red carpet.

1:14And so I've known him for years in that way. And I'm going to say not a bad golfer. Not a bad golfer either. Let's get to it with Billy.

1:28but i like it because if i had hair like you i wouldn't want to be putting headphones on i was going to say something about that uh i try to not use headphones when i have this gift and by the way your hair is perfectly fine i don't see why you need a headphones and hat but you know you know why because it's at a weird when these early morning things i'm like oh god i don't know here let's see let's have a look see let's see what's going out. Oh, Jesus, let it out. You really do have everything. I always like to say God's fair. He's not going to let a guy be tall, handsome, rich, have a big you-know-what, and the hair, too.

2:05And I think you might actually have everything. I mean, I got to speak to Cheryl for the last part, but I don't know. Well, I neither confirm nor deny. Exactly. And also trust but verify. Leave as much mystery as you can. Yeah. But trust but verify. That's how I feel about that. Trust but verify. I knew you would know that one. Oh, buddy. How excited are you doing long-form interviews now? Oh, God. It's like, it literally, it was just fear. Fear that kept me from doing it. I'm just going to be totally and completely honest with you. The fear of like, will it work? I don't know. Will anyone show up?

2:55Will they come? And you just get that negative voice going. And then after being, you know, losing your job and getting whacked in the woods for a little while, then you're like, oh, now I really don't know. And finally, I just like enough's enough. I built 22 years of Rolodex. I know everybody. If I don't know them, they know the person. I can text Rob Lowe. Yes, you can. And you can and do. And I can and I do. And I'm sorry about the nudes that I send you sometimes, but I'm really working on my body. And your approval means a lot to me. Your Zempick is next level. So it's been, it's like to the point where in five months, I'm leaving television and only doing it.

3:40That's what I was going to ask. You have five months still on TV before this is your dojo completely. It's like less than that. Three months, maybe. Basically, September. When the new season begins, there'll be a new host of Extra, and I will be doing hot mics for four or five days a week. All right. So you and I were playing in a golf tournament the other day. Mm-hmm. You know that I ended up winning. my team ended up winning net low score for Sunday. Did you know that? Are you aware of such a thing? You... Oh, for the second day. Yeah, for the second day. I got a trophy. I got a little trophy and, you know, that's not nothing.

4:25Anyone would say it's a two-day tournament. What happened on the first day that wasn't so good? A couple things. I didn't play as well and my member who was probably at three could not putt, could not putt. Oh, be careful now. You might not be coming back as the guest when you can't criticize the member. No, but it's great because my member is one of those guys. Do you have people, look, you're in the business of talking about pop culture. How about people who are like, I don't watch a lot of that television or movie. I don't know. And they literally don't know anybody. Now, should I respect that?

5:04Or should I think there's something wrong with them? But I'm talking about people who are saying, like, you know, he was the guy, I guess he had a lot of, he, he, you know, he had a lot of hits in the, in the nineties. He had, he's like a kid, you know, he had one name and I'm like, not Prince. Yes. That's the one. That's the one. Or people are like, yeah, my daughter, she watches this show. It's like a, it's got animals in it. It's fly. It's a, I don't know. It's, I'm like giving game of Thrones. Like, I think that's it. I think dragon and animal like people like that. What is with, are they more evolved or less evolved?

5:40Because part of me is - I'm super, look, I'm a pop culture junkie. I'm the zeitgeist to me, everything that's in. I watch so many. You name a series, I've watched it. From Mobland to Your Friends and Neighbors to Sirens and Four Seasons. And I just watch everything and I love it. There's so much good stuff in the streaming world. But so you're OK with people who are like, don't know anybody other than who's in their actual room. I'm OK with them, Rob. I'm not OK with the person. It's like, yeah, I really just I'm like, I'm just I only read like books and I watch television. Oh, OK. You. Oh, sure.

6:24You just a little Tolstoy and then you go to sleep. You're so evolved. You're so elevated. So elevated. OK, that that. OK. Yeah, okay Because my golf partner's that guy He's like, how's that? How's that? You did? My wife was telling me about a show you did Did he know who you are? No I don't think so We met in a Ralph's parking lot This nice guy, Rob I don't know He seems nice enough I didn't know Somebody said that They wanted me to take a picture with you I was like, okay I don't know It's like that It's that stuff Bob, you at that point, I say, do you know who I am? And they say, no, they say, I don't, you know, I don't go in for that Hollywood stuff.

7:09Yeah. Okay. But how about over a very long period of time? He's been doing this a long time, Rob Lowe, at a high level. I don't know. You know, it's, it's, it's still possible to fall through the cracks. Did you ever fan out? Did you ever like have like a moment where you couldn't, no one would answer your phone? Like Sly Stallone had a moment where no one could, Kevin Costner, no one would answer his phone. Or have you consistently been doing this at a highly scheduled level for 40 years, whatever it is? Yeah, it's, well, listen, just St. Elmo's fire is 40 years. Yeah. Oh, wow. This year. So I was 10 years before.

7:46It's going on 50. It is 50. Did you have a drought? Was there like, you know, 15 years ago? Was there a moment or something? I don't remember one. I mean, first of all, it's all relative, right? But, but. Yeah, everybody, every single person you mentioned who's had longevity is going to have a drought. And it's all about how you manage it. And like anybody can have a career when things are good. It's how do you have a career when the phone isn't ringing as much? Yeah. There can be any reason. There can be any reason for it. It can be a couple of projects didn't work or you piss somebody off or you had something in the news or whatever it is.

8:26And the real question is, what do you do then? For me, it coincided with I had just gotten married. And so I devoted all that sort of energy and time to building that part of my life. It just, thank God it was that, that thing. And so I was like, you know, going to pumpkin patches and reading books at night and tucking kids in and happy things that really aren't that worthy. Yeah, exactly. That's stupid shit. Paying attention to my children, making sure they don't have a terrible complex. And look at the relationship you have now. I mean, you guys are posting ab photos, you know, Just, you know, topless photos side by side, equally ripped dad, equally ripped as son.

9:10I mean, yeah, my boys, I'm very lucky that that. But, you know, you get what you give. You know, I loved spending time with them, you know, from the beginning. And now the gift is they I don't want to say love spending time with me because I know I'll get a text from my youngest going, don't talk about me that way. or giving me shit about it. But they like, they like, they like me. Like Sally Field said at the Oscars, they like me, they really like me. I would say, how could they not? Yeah, it looks like the relationship is really. It's good, it's really good. So anyway, we were in this golf tournament, Bushman, and you were telling me about, you know, the infamous moment that you've navigated so well, by the way, hats off to you, dude.

10:01I think you've. Thank you. I was going to say they tried to cancel you They actually did cancel you No, they did But you've come back Roaring And I actually think it's led to I mean, I think it's led to even better things for you I do I really, really do Well, I mean, if you want to talk about going through something in life You see this right here? Hot mics The name of my new endeavor is Hot Mics It is the hot mic That killed you silenced me. And it wasn't really me talking. I mean, I was on it, but that, you know, that those things that were the hot on that bus, they silenced me. And now here we are eight years later, but I own the name now.

10:48And it's the thing that's actually providing, giving me a gate to my, my authentic voice to say and opine and question and feel exactly as I do. So it's crazy that, that journey to get to this place, but I've kind of taken it back in a way and set myself free. I hate the process. Holy shit, I almost killed myself. It was so brutal. I mean, and you and I have been friends a long time, and when you were in the thick of it, I think we talked a couple of times about it because I think it's always helpful to be around people who've, in the public eye, who've been through stuff. And I but I didn't know what you told me the other week is that when you were on the bus with Trump, you never heard you.

11:37You never heard him say any of it because you were amazing. It's amazing. You see, what people don't get is is the nuance of like what what occurred in the moment. It's actually riveting because, you know. Now, with enough distance now, you have to imagine a bus is rolling towards an arrival scene. At the arrival scene, waiting for the bus to pull up and its door to open is this woman with whom Trump is going to have a scene on a daytime soap opera. Let's remember who he was. And the scene was he was going to film a scene as a billionaire who's trying to, you know, as this gold digger is coming after this billionaire.

12:21She plays the role of the gold digger. So she's in a skimpy, like tight little dress and she looks incredibly sexy. And she is. And Trump and I are the camera leaves and it goes 300 yards up to the arrival scene so it can film the arrival, film the opening of the door. Our microphones are still on. What I don't know. One knows we find out later is the guy while his camera is on the ground is still rolling. So the audio is being recorded of everything that's happening in there. And this is when, you know, whenever you're with Trump and I was for 10 years, it's there's two major topics, golf and and the P word.

13:03And today was a was not a golf day. And he was just going. It was tough. But I always remembered that tape as the Nancy O'Dell tape because he kept talking about my co-host, Nancy O'Dell. I love Nancy. What happened to Nancy? I used to try to get her to, you know, go furniture shopping. I tried to buy her an armoire to see if I could like, and I'm going, oh, wow. Yeah, Nancy, very beautiful woman. And he's like, what did she do to us? I'm like, man, she's very beautiful. She's a very lovely person. Got off to Nancy beautifully. And then to change the topic, I look out the window and I see the woman, the gold digger, the nice actress who's going to play the gold digger.

13:42And I go, Donald, look, look who's waiting. She is hot as shit. And that's literally the only thing I say Hot as shit My 77-year-old mother called me, you know, weeks later and said I wish someone would say that about me By the way, though, today I think even hot as shit gets canceled Is there a woman? Raise your hand if that offends you I don't think so So that's all I said But then he went on And as he was saying the things I'm so famous I can literally grab, you know, women wherever I want At this point, I am looking out the window. I am looking at the producer. I'm looking at the arrival scene, looking where the cameras are, because we are now 20 feet away.

14:26And I'm like, I said, hey, right. OK, whatever you want. Oh, my God. You know. And I it doesn't register with me. The first time I actually hear that on a tape is sitting in the general manager's office at the Today Show. The guy, because I had now made it to the Today Show, and it was my second month on the job, when this thing, it's a month before the election, and he's like, hey, you got to see this thing. And I'm like, yeah. I'm like, oh, my God. But it's the optics, right? It's the optics that he says that thing to me, which does not register to me. I had no recollection of those words ever being said until I listened to it.

15:09October 3rd, 2016, a month before the election, one month and two days before the second debate when they're rolling this thing out. And I'm like, OK.

15:36and by the way when when was when was the scene on the bus was it was a month before 2005 wait wait whoa whoa whoa it was years this is the crazy people still don't know this is an 11-year-old tape at the time. And the reason why people were looking for it, NBC put out an APB, an all-points bulletin on Donald Trump because there's some former pageant girl, queen, I don't know, came forward and said he had done something inappropriate. He had said something. He was very much, and Donald Trump said, I've never said or done anything inappropriate with women ever in my life. And then NBC, who hates him, sent out these messages to every division of the company.

16:23Do you have any tape? What they really wanted was Mark Burnett's tape, the guy who ran The Apprentice, because you know there's outtakes forever. But does anyone else have anything of him talking disparagingly about women? We need this. We need this. We need this. and uh and my producer at the time was like holy shit the bus ride that tape that was like 11 years ago wait a minute that's the time when bush called me right after it happened the day of the filming in 2005 i called my producer i said you're not going to believe what trump said he's in my god he's going after nancy all i said was nancy odell because i didn't hear the other stuff i said he's trying to take nancy furniture shopping to sleep with her this is crazy he's done it again.

17:05The guy's an animal. I report it basically to my superior. It sits in a desk forever because at that time, Rob, you got to remember the key. Had that tape leaked out when it actually occurred in 2005, I would have been fired for an entirely different reason, killing their cash cow. Trump was a protected, revered source. He was$100 million in profit for NBC. He was the king of the ratings, a cheap reality show to make. You go make 9-1-1. It costs a lot of money to make that. The Apprentice costs nothing and his ratings were huge. So this was a cash cow and they had, you know, they would have fired me for injuring their cash cow.

17:55But then years later, the falling out and the pageants that he used to own the pageant and aired on NBC and they have litigation and they hate him. And now he's running for president and they want him dead. And so the landscape changes entirely. And they say, oh, my God, remember that tape? Remember that tape? They send it. So my producer, instead of telling me, sends it to the general counsel of NBC and says, I got something. I don't know if I can use it because the two microphones are on, the camera's not there. He may not know he was being recorded. And in California, if you record it to both parties, need to know it's a dual consent state.

18:36So I don't know, this could be litigious and he is litigious, but take a look. And the general counsel at that point says, yeah, thanks, we'll take it from here. Bye-bye. They had what they thought was now the one thing we've learned later, nothing takes him out. but this at the time i think everybody agreed had to be the thing so whatever whoever's the collateral damage around it tough shit the bigger mission is this man not becoming president and so it was the craziest week i've written a chapter about it so when i eventually the play-by-play of how this thing unfolded and how it went through the halls and up to the 50 second story the floor you know, to the bosses, to the CEO, to the this, to the that, and how it eventually just came out while I was sitting on an airplane flying home is a riveting tale.

19:30I can't decide if it's a book or a series or what, but it's unbelievable. And it hit. And then it became so big. they had to they fired me they moved to fire me and amazingly um you know he obviously he went on to be president but they fired me and the thing you don't understand is it's also very political at the today show the women liked me being there and i took over the chat show hour to design the whole plan was for me to turn it in. I was to be the next Regis Philbin. I would Regis. It was stepping down. I was going to take the nine o 'clock hour. We were going to move it to the top of the rock.

20:15It was going to be, you know, with the top of rock center 30 rock where they have a cafe up there and we have a jazz band and the whole thing. And like tourists could come and fans could come and we would be the greatest nine o 'clock chat show. Uh, they still have done nothing with that hour. It's a disaster. But that was the plan. And the women from nine o 'clock on loved me. Hoda, Kathy Lee, every year it was, that was my people. The men in the earlier hours did not. They did not like the fact that I was younger. I had a full head of hair. I had some charm. And let's, I think I was a little bit DOA anyway.

21:03So there you go. Rob Lowe is getting the, this is called the Rob Lowe down. Okay. This is the long knives of the Today Show. We're out for you. Yes, sir. Oh, for sure. From the beginning. And I know you said it, but it's just amazing to think about. Two of you on the bus. One of them says, grab them by the you know what. The other guy. I hate that word. doesn't really hear it one guy gets fired and the other guy gets elected president yeah it's you can't if you couldn't write it it's it's around matt lauer called me like a year later or whatever seven months later and he was like you know i just can't get past the irony that this happened and that and i mean he and i had a very stern conversation i uh i laid into him because I said to myself, if I ever had to, if he ever, if I speak to him again, I'm going to lay into him.

21:57And I did. Cause he was still on the air at that point. Oh yeah. Now he was rocking and rolling. And I said, I basically, in short, I said, you know, I was at Access Hollywood for 15 years. I was the big cheese there. Like you're the big cheese at the today show. Now I know we're dealing between a Cadillac and a jalopy, but nonetheless, I was the main man there. And if a young guy who had joined us, you know, who's a good guy and you know, he's a good guy and he's helpful to the show and he's good on the air. He's not, you know, he's got everything that is good for the team. You could have stood up for me, have them suspend me, have them do whatever, but the blowing out of me and taking my entire livelihood and career and making me unemployable and just wiping me out for something that's 11 years old.

22:50You should have stood up and you didn't. And you didn't because you're small and you didn't want me around. And I just fucking laid right into the guy. And he's like, no, no, no, I defended you in private. I'm like, no, you didn't. Get the hell out of here. So, and then afterwards when I got it all out, I said, I called him like a few months later when he got fired and I said, so how you doing? Here's three books you want to read to help you start to get off your ass. Hey, babe. What were the books? I love, it's still fresh for you as it would be. I get it. No, it's, every detail is there. The good news is, and I hope I don't come off as like super bitter because the gift that came is the gift that's behind me and doing what authentically I was meant to do.

23:44I think if I was at the Today Show and I was making$12 million a year or something, I'd still, I wouldn't be fulfilled because I'd still be super safe. You watch GMA, you watch Today Show. They can't do anything. They can't say anything. They can't have an opinion. They can't, it's a shrinking audience and the race is on. Whoever shrinks the slowest wins and that's just where they are. And, you know, in this world behind me, it's a growing world. And whoever you are, your authentic self is exactly, you know, how appealing that is, is how far as you're going to get. And so I'm blessed to be doing it and I love it.

24:25And and by the way, I like having something and I was a pretty charmed kind of sheltered guy. Nothing really bad had happened to me. Oh, look, I'm interviewing celebrities on red carpets. This is so fun. Look at that. And hey, yuck, yuck, yuck. Can I move on? And I get promoted and they pay me more. And this is like, but then this thing hits and you find out who you are. And if you can, what you got inside you, who built you, what you're made of and getting through it is like, I'm not special. My details are really special. My unique, the details of my story are like, whoa, that could never happen again.

25:07They're unbelievable. But everybody's, you know, I got one of my closest friends. His wife is going through chemo and radiation for pancreatic cancer. No one beats that. And that's like. That could be it. Maybe my wife, you know, your wife or your son or your child is going through something like that. I'll take this incredible story that someday will be a riveting book and it's already an awesome podcast and all this thing. now. I didn't think I'd make it then, but I'll take it now. Shit. I'm special, damn it. It's so, there's so many details to that that it's almost hard for me to ask follow-up questions in a way because - Where to begin?

25:55Where to begin? So let me ask you just some very pedestrian ones. Good.

26:03who was most surprising that was in your corner? Who was the most surprising that wasn't in your corner? Let's drop a few celebrity names for the listening audience. Julie Bowen. I love her. Love her. We went to school together, boarding school together. Julie, you know, wrote, these are letters and, you know, phone calls I receive. Michael Strahan. Great. Let's see. Cindy Crawford. You know, Suzanne Somers. Dennis Quaid wrote me the most passionate letter. He was like fuming. Dennis Quaid was like, you can see Dennis is, you know, Dennis is, he's got some energy. And he was just like, these motherfuckers.

26:58but i loved reading it of course um you know eric stone street and steve levitt tan and you know the creator of modern family and and and the list goes that many but in my that's really good to hear that there was a there was a list oh many i mean i like i have them all somewhere um but the The closest is my brother. You know, my brother is my best friend. And when his marriage and world fell apart, I was there for him. And in this case, he was there for me. And I would never have survived without him. And then my pastor. Shit, I walked on rocks with Tony Robbins. I did everything I could think of to keep myself from jumping off the building.

27:43Because I'm like, Rob, I was about to get a huge paycheck. My first really big paycheck. I'm at the Today Show. They still have money. They're the last line, last thing in linear television with real money on the news inside. And I was like, wait, wait. And right back to the bottom of the hill, or let's say mid of the hill. And then you have to keep coming back up again. And then, of course, we know the people that weren't there. The people that weren't there, you know, the silence. And a lot of them, you know, many you forgive because sometimes you don't know whether, like if someone has cancer or something or like, so they're going through something like, do they want to hear from me?