Cesar Millan: Dogs Tell the Truth (Re-Release)

0:00Cesar, welcome. Thank you, Rob. Appreciate it, man. So I've been a big fan of yours for a long time. Thank you. Tried to do your famous noise. Just can't do it like you.

0:23Welcome to Literally with me, Rob Lowe. Okay, so I'm a dog lover. I am. Sue me. What do you want from me? um i live me some dogos and and i feel like that more than ever everybody loves dogs so today's a special treat get it see what i did there dogs special treat dogs love treats nothing okay um caesar milan caesar milan the dog whisperer is here and i have many many many questions for him because I have five dogs. And this is going to be good. Get your notepad. You're going to want to take notes on this one. Trust me. If you have any interest at all in dogs or pets or frankly human beings, get ready to take voluminous notes with Cesar Millan.

1:17From the time you were a kid, you were connected to dogs. Isn't that right? I was connected to pretty much anything. Earth. You know, I grew up on a farm. So growing up in that environment, you are automatically are being taught to take care of the lawn, take care of the animals, take care of the family. Spirituality is very big. Where are we from? I always tell my kids, my kids were born in America. I say, the beautiful part about growing up with very little money is that your spirituality grows really high because you develop faith. and your instincts develop really high because you work with the land and the animals and the love for the family, you know, that's what you care about.

2:03So you pretty much grow up with those three pillars. So in the animal world, it's all about, you know, the belief, the family and the activities. So once you grow up with those three pillars, it pretty much just stay connected. So I definitely, I was blessed to be able to keep my instincts, my spirituality and my love for my family and floor for earth i think that's why your um your brand of animal training dog training however you want to categorize it is so interesting because it comes imbued with that you know it's not you know you're not just a another hollywood dog trainer rolling up you know yeah you've got you've got that spirituality you've got that that thing in it i do you i always feel um if i meet someone and tell tell me oh i don't like dogs well i don't like cats i go i go uh-oh warning warning is it do you think that well am i crazy you know so you were saying about you know my profession my profession is to train humans right to connect to mother nature and and what i have found is some humans are afraid of animals some humans are don't they just don't like animals You know, so the three energies that I learned that the world lives by is love, fear and hate.

3:22You know, so that's why my mission is to train humans. So in my world, you don't have to have a dog because you find humans who don't have a connection with nature. You don't have to have a dog, but what you do have to have is connection. so you can have good communication and the most ideal relationship, which is about trust, respect, and love, right? So yes, it's a good insight when a human tells you, I don't like animals. Well, that tells you the connection with earth. What would you describe as the definition of a connection with nature? Well, you have trust, respect, and love. You feel free.

4:02You live by the motor code, honesty, integrity, loyalty, pursuit of happiness, live in the moment. you know, unconditional love, and you pretty much use your instincts. And of course, creativity, right? So in that world, money, fame, and power is irrelevant, right? So that's the beauty. You get to maintain your spirituality. You get to maintain your instincts. You get to maintain your love. Because for those three pillars, you don't need money, fame, or power. So when you come to a place like America, you can easily get sidetracked in the money, fame, and power, right? Especially in LA. right?

4:37So especially in LA, you can, you can see how that rules and leads most of people's motivation, you know? So the dogs live with this human and the dog shows you, you know, how this human lives. So that's why when I come to people's home, I listen to the human because the human like to tell the story, but the dog tells you the truth. I love that. The humans tell you the story and the dogs tell you the truth. Yeah. That's really good. What, what, what, why are dogs man's best friend? There's been a lot of stuff written I've noticed over the last, feels like over the last month. I've read numerous articles on the science of that, and people are really taking an interest in why that is.

5:23What's behind our deep, deep, deep connection to dogs? Adaptation. We're the only two species that you can find all over the world. So no matter where you are in the world, those are the two species that will survive, right? So adaptation is number one, because without life is no relationship. And so then eventually is a relationship. But the first thing is the adaptation. We are so capable to adapt to the snow, to the sun, to the jungle, no matter where we are. Those are the two species that you will find anywhere in the world. So that's why we become such great allies to live in a world like this one, which is full of chaos, full of unhappiness and confusion.

6:07So you need somebody that you can truly trust, truly respect, and truly love. And so a dog has that. Dogs live with homeless people. So that just shows you that a dog can care less if you don't have a house. And some people say, I don't have a house. That's why I can't have a dog. And it's like, well, here in America, homeless people have dogs. So you don't need to have a house. You just need to want to adapt to a relationship with a different species. And then they do the rest. so yeah it's funny because now science wants to find out what this is all about but it's been happening for thousands of years well that was my next question is what was the the original relationship like do you think with with when the first human and the first dog connected what was that about need need we need you know you need a woman or you need a friend or you need a business or you need something it's a need you need something they fulfill uh your your flesh your mind your heart your spirit and so when you can't find that with your own kind and then you you have a tendency to seek somewhere else you know so then the somewhere else is a dog and then it's a horse and then it's a bird and the last one is a cat and the reason what the cat is the last one is because cats are not pack oriented right so they don't have in their program to be with you for more than 10 minutes.

7:31The other three that I mentioned, they want to be with you to the point that you have to teach a dog to separate. So a dog wants to be with you 24-7. A cat wants to be with you 10 minutes. Yes. Kind of like my kids. Yeah. At one point, I have two kids too. At one point, they turn into a cat. It's true. But in the beginning, you raise them like the way you raise a pack of puppies. You know, and then eventually they become individual and then they come back to the pack. A pack is defined by how many dogs? How many dogs makes a pack? Well, two, three. Yeah, two. Yeah. A cat and a dog is a pack. A cat and a bird is a pack.

8:12A dog and a horse is a pack. A human and a dog is a pack. You know, it's a group. It's the beginning of a family. And then you create that. So, and then that becomes the beginning of a pack. And so, we're talking about a spiritual pack, emotional pack, you know, companion pack. And so that's pretty much it. And of course, you know, having two, three, four, five, and then different species, it just makes it even more beautiful because the individual species add their own essence to the mix. You know, we have mimos, we have alpacas, llamas, tortoises, birds, a donkey, a horse, and they all bring something.

8:51And then when you mix them all in one place, it's just a beautiful festivity of energy. Yeah. A while back, you were saying that dogs are one of the only species that you see all over the world. And in my travels all over the world, I've been blessed and lucky enough to travel a lot to many different places. You do. You see the dogs everywhere. But I have to say, it seems to me, I just got back from Mexico, and Mexico does the dog better than any country in the world, I think. I think that, I don't know, the cutest goddamn dogs for sure in the planet are in Mexico. Come at me if you disagree. The Mexican mutt, man, every single one of them I wanted to grab off the street and take home with me.

9:31You know, the beauty of a dog in Mexico is he actually is a citizen of the country, right? Because he's allowed to roam everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah, Mexico is the dog park. A dog in America, he has to go into a dog park to practice social moment of freedom, right? So he doesn't, you know, here in America, we have the thing called the land of the free. But once you see a dog, he's not free. But dog in Mexico is actually free, you know? And so they get to develop the adaptation, the understanding. A lot of times people ask me, what dog is the most intelligent breed in the world? I'll say a street dog.

10:15I'd rather have a street dog than a dog that is being trained to do chutzon three and have all the medals in the world. Why? Because that dog, you have to tell him what to do. And a street dog, he tells you what to do. Totally. You know, so he actually saves your life. Yeah. It's funny. We have, I have, I have five dogs. I've always, I know we're a big dog family. A pack. I always have been. and you know when one passes away we we we get another and uh you know one one of the dogs i have now owen and if people follow my instagram uh they see pictures of my dogs all the time but owen and i have i have mutts i have rescues i have purebred you name it i have it owen's the purebred he's the fancy boy he's a german short-haired pointer and he comes from a long lineage of champions and we had to agree to let him be shown if we were going to get him and he is without a doubt the most beautiful german short-haired pointer i've ever seen and the breeder's like oh and i know breeders for the people going crazy that i said breeder i also rescue about 30 animals uh twice a year okay just calm down um anyway was like this is the most beautiful GSP I've ever seen, but we're not going to show him.

11:37Do you have an opinion on showing? When you watch Westminster or any of those things, it's like the Super Bowl for you, I'm betting, right? It's an activity. It requires discipline. It requires to be very fit, very healthy. It shows your genetics, and definitely it shows social interaction. it requires like i said a lot of discipline because there's a lot of food on the floor and you know 60 60 of the brain is controlled by the nose so if you control the nose of a dog you pretty much are challenging that dog more than anything else more than than jumping swimming or anything else so in effort on top of that he has to feel that he is the best in the world so that's also requires concentration you know so it's it's a it's a beautiful activity uh to practice for a dog it requires like i said a lot of discipline you need to be fit you need to be super handsome and uh it just shows you know your your cultural background yeah yeah you know it's it's like me saying do i love to be mexican of course i love to be mexican and i will be in the show dog well this interview is great by the way but i'm also going to pepper you this is my free chance to get free dog training for you.

12:52Well, I got you. So, so Owen, the other day, who we're talking about has this, I live on the beach, right on the beach. And he's loves to chase sticks. And he's, he's discovered, you know, that the ocean is his friend and he'll chase sticks and birds and swims. Like you can't believe the other day I took him down, turned my back on him. And he was 150 yards offshore swimming for the horizon and i was like wait what what and i go well he's gonna turn around come back in a minute nope going going going going until he was a speck and i was like you know what i don't know what the heck is but i got i got a big paddleboard like a rescue paddleboard and i paddled out and what i realized was happening is a bird was teasing him and would fly, Owen would paddle up to him, then the bird would fly up farther, then Owen would paddle up to him.

13:45And it was choppy. And at his head level, he could not see the shore for sure. I was like, I'm going to rescue him. I put him on my board and I ran back. But I did the right thing, right? I mean, that could have been trouble, correct? The right thing is to prevent from him to cross the 100 feet mark. That's called boundaries, right? And so once they get in the sun, once they get into that parade ride, then that controls them. And so many times it's not ideal, you know, because it gets into the place of not being safe anymore. Right. It's their brain that just goes and they don't have a limit unless they're tired.

14:29So that in the ocean can be dangerous. so the the right thing to do or in the streets you know in the streets that can be dangerous that's more prone to happen in the streets what you went through you know dogs chase squirrels in the streets and then they get in trouble so it's the same thing what do you think that the most the most common mistake people make with their with their dogs are i saw it was really interesting i saw one of your quotes is great as you dogs need the three things exercise discipline discipline and a form of work right yes because when you go to work you have to be disciplined so it's very mental and then affection that's the reward right so they have to work for the food the water the shelter the family so that that way they feel that they are they have a purpose and they actually pitch in right just a body mind heart and so one of the worst uh of the the thing that most people don't do is they set clear rules boundaries and limitations right so once you have clear rules behind the limitations, you're not going to make mistakes.

15:33So people can do exercise, but because they don't have a clear rules behind the limitations, situations like yours can happen. Your dog is not clear on the boundaries. It's not that he is not allowed to chase a bird or chase a stick. What he should know is how far is enough. So he needs to stay within the bubble. Just like, you know, raising kids. Yeah, you can play as much as you want, but you can't go too far away from you see it so we're teaching our kids rules boundaries limitation that makes them disciplined that makes them structure and that gives us a peace of mind so what so what do you say to the person who doesn't have access to you or doesn't have access to a trainer and you want to teach your dog it's not cool when you're in a park with no fence to just run away well uh the most the simplest way is to go for a long walk because you should never teach the mind with too much physical energy right so your job is to wake up in the morning and go for a long walk right so that is going to control or address the athleticism part of the dog and then is the working part so what do i do with my my creative mind i want to smell here i want to look this i want to hear this so nose eyes ears and so that's that's when you are bringing the dog to a situation whatever you want to go and you bring a long line you don't even have to have any other you know more technological tools you can just be as primal as you want to be just make sure that when you you bring the dog to that environment you have a long enough line for him to detach and at the moment he moves at the end of that and then you correct him you stop him right and then the dog repetitions of that would allow the dog to understand okay we walk for a long walk and then my human brings me to these scenarios and that's as far as i can go right so then the dog learns boundaries you know and and then the rules is don't eat food from the floor don't jump on people don't chase a dog at a certain way you know don't eat uh don't steal people's food at the park those are rules and limits is how long did you stay outside rules by limitations and that allows the dog to know that his needs are going to be met the body and the mind

17:56I liked one of your quotes I read where you said that one of the things that Americans do is we give our dogs too much affection and not enough of the other two things. Well, yeah, I mean, it's a formula for everything. As you know, as a dad, you know, it's a formula to be a dad, a formula to be an actor a formula to be a businessman you know so it's the formula to connect with a dog and you eventually have the freedom of being off leash is exercise discipline affection body mind heart my clients like to do affection affection affection and expect the dog to behave you know so it's two shows uh that america can you know can can guide themselves uh with it you know super nanny and and dog whisper yep right so those two shows two foreigns two immigrants are showing America that the kids and the dogs control America.

18:42It's amazing. When I go, whenever I, it's so funny you say that because whenever I go to, well, frankly, anywhere in the world other than America, I'm like, the kids are so well-mannered. They're great. I mean, you go to England, you go to Germany, you go to, you know, South America, wherever you want to go, the kids are on point. And in America, we just let them run amok. Yeah. Well, that's affection, affection, affection. That's right. That's the formula. And the irony is it's not good for a dog or a kid. Well, no, it's not because it's not the only activity they need. Yeah. So I'm not saying not to give affection.

19:19Of course not. But let them work for it so they know that affection is something to be grateful about it. You know, something to protect, something to also generate. Because a lot of times when they receive, they don't give it. Well, that's what creates entitlement. But unfortunately, that's why dogs feel that they own the house. They own the family. They own the toys. They own everything. And then people will describe this, Caesar, my dog doesn't want me to be near my wife. My dog doesn't want me to touch the food. My dog doesn't want me to touch the toys that I purchased. You see it? So all this territorial behavior, this behavior of controlling or possessing things is entitlement because they believe that everything belongs to them.

20:08They don't work for anything. And it's the same with people. Yeah. I mean, we're part of the animal world, right? Who do we follow? What are the rules, boundaries, limitations? So do we practice gratitude? Do we practice be there for somebody else? Do we help, you know, to make sure the water, the shelter, the basic stuff, super basic things, you know, that we just keep in mind, regardless of the background of the kids, you know, economically background, it doesn't matter. It's just about making sure that we're part of the pack. You know, I grew up with my grandfather, my father, my mother, my grandma, in an old-fashioned way.

20:47Thanks, God. And my grandfather was the pack leader. Second pack leader was my dad. third pack leader was my grandma my grandma and then four pack leader was my mom so all these grown-ups were my pack leaders they all have the same agreement you know the same rules by limitation the same tradition the same everything was the same so it was very consistent in the way i felt that they were there to give me direction protection and love yeah you know so well that's the key to you know training an animal obviously because it's you're telling me into raising kids which I have experience with is like consistency is, I mean, without consistency, you're done.

21:26You're done. There's, there's no way to, no way, no way to do it. So if your kids can conquer and divide you as, as a, as a parent with your partner, you're toast. Well, consistency, you know, I always tell my kids, you know, even lazy people are consistent. So, you know, uh, consistency is not the problem is that what is it that you are practicing that you know that is more important you know so the awareness of what is it that you do right so my house uh we go this way is god families and then a self and and uh and you know so that way they're always grateful of life and then always making sure that the birds the the animals and the family always are uh you know they're well taking the grandparents you know they always make sure i tell them hey find out how your grandparents are doing and then it's you and that creates a very pack-oriented way of being because you can just easily go into self-oriented and forget about the pack right you know and so it just develops a different way of of being with life so that's the consistency i expect with my pack because that's what i do totally do do you do you feel what there's a scientific term for this yeah and i'm too stupid to remember it but but the notion that we project onto animals or other things, things that we think they think, but in fact, they don't.

22:51So in other words, the notion that we think dogs understand way more than they actually do, or do dogs feel and understand the things that we think they do? By the way, that may be the worst posed question I've ever asked on this podcast. It might be, I realize that. But I think you know what I meant. Yeah. There is some dogs, they have

23:18superpowers, right? So like daddy, my pit bull, he had superpowers. As a dog that I was in the beginning of my career, I needed that kind of guidance and that kind of support and that kind knowledge that it was just super power right so he i can't say that the i can't even create anything out of it because i'm just amazed of the stuff that he does you know but my clients do do like to uh say my dog feels this way that's why he doesn't want to go to the park so they're creating stories that's why i said the human tells a story and the dog tells you the truth you know what I mean so so that's that that happens a lot you know that is that but it's definitely some some dogs that have superpowers there's no doubt about it there is some special dog just like humans they come with superpowers you know and then other the people that just make stories out of it that's so interesting makes perfect sense because there are you know I've had like I said I have a tremendous amount of experience with dogs Owen is a dog he's a dog And then there are some that, I don't know, it's not that they think they're human, but there's something going on that's not just dog.

24:35That's right. And by the way, I like both iterations. I like those dogs that think they're people, act like people, look like people, behave weird. I love that too, but I also like a good old-fashioned dog that's just dogs. dogs. Yeah. Well, yes, I definitely have had more dogs than dogs with superpowers. No doubt about it. You know, no doubt. What would be a dog? What are some of the dog superpowers you've noticed in your career? So I tell you my story with daddy, you know, so daddy died when he was 16 and right before, you know, a month before he died, we shot the last episode on dog whisper.

25:11Wow. And he was always with me, always, always. So I had him in the RV. We went to this new place. We'd never been there. Okay. So we went and helped a dog trainer. This dog developed fear to humans. And this dog actually used to work in jail, finding cell phones. Wow. Right. So, so somehow people, you know, uh, infiltrate, uh, uh, cell phones in jail and, and they have a, uh, a canine group that goes, finds the cell phones. So, but this dog developed fear to humans, including his trainer. So I go on in there and the dog is petrified, petrified. So if you pull, carry this dog, he gets even worse.

25:51Okay. So I didn't want to move him. And then I said, you know, it's only one, one person that can do something about it. So I go to my RV. Daddy is like inches ready to come out. I opened the door. He gets out. We never been there he gets out he goes exactly to where the dog is touches his nose the dog follows him it brings him into the rb that kind of superpower wow okay wow so it's like we never been there out the freaking dog yeah you're the dog the only guy is is a traitor of that dog nothing two humans can do that he comes in touches with the nose the dog snaps out of it follows him to the rb so i never told daddy daddy i need this help he knew he knew but i also knew that it was it was somebody can help it was going to be him and the guy was a month you know before he died that's how special that guy he was at service to the highest level of penis that's the difference between a dog a normal dog and a dog that is at service you know the spiritual dogs And those dogs, like anything else, like any special human, they're just born.

27:07That's just the way they arrive. You can't train it into them. They just are who they are. That's it. Do you have a breed that you find particularly challenging? I don't know. The human. Of course, right? You know, human in denial is the words. For sure. And human in denial with a lot of money is even more difficult. Yep. you know so so no dogs you know you just find what motivates them and inspires them and and that's pretty much it you just make them follow you do dogs choose people so i have a lot of people coming and going in the house because i also have an office there and i'm taking meetings and i've you know people who work on my team and stuff and i've had a couple of dogs choose people outside of our close family that they they they would go home with them they want to be with them it's really bizarre does that make any sense is that how do you find dogs choose people that's compatible you know your friends you choose them so that's compatibility family you can't choose right yeah but you know uh but you know sometimes you get the dog you need not the dog you want and sometimes you get the dog that's compatible to you you know and so the people in your life is sometimes is the one you need and the other one is the one you are compatible to so the same thing with a dog you know same same thing i had one dog uh it was a schnauzer and he became obsessed with my wife i mean obsessed to the point that it was like a real problem and why why do dogs choose who they're going to be obsessed with well It could be energy.

28:50It could be many, many, many times it's energy. If the human is in a softer energy, the dog comes and takes over. So it's a problem where the dog is stronger energy. So he practices the masculine energy, even if it's a female. And so if the dog takes over that human, and then they become overprotected of that human. So why that dog takes over? The right way is the human gives the leadership to the dog so the dog never gets in trouble. You know what I mean? It's important that a human always control instincts. Because remember, there's no knowledge behind instincts. It's all reaction. So a dog that chooses a human on his own can actually go against the whole family.

29:34Yeah. Exactly. So that instinctually is wrong. You see what I mean? Now, there is dogs, they go to hospitals or hospitals and they choose the human that are the weakest and helps them elevate. You see, that's a healing moment versus an instinctual moment. So the healing moment is perfect, but the one that's instinctual, that becomes dangerous. So that's definitely not ideal because they can bite. they can bite they can growl you know and people can develop fear and distress to the dog that they love we have a another dog named gilbert grape and go joe well the best was his name was leo and then a friend of mine was like oh leo gilbert grape like leo dicaprio and went wait a minute that's a better name so it became gilbert grape and um gilbert's a rescue and gilbert sadly we were pretty sure it was just terribly terribly terribly beaten it wherever he came from and he was so we've had to work so hard to get him uh trust trust and rehabilitated and not to be so crazily submissive like just insane but he's such a lovely little i don't know what he is what what the hell mix he has but he's cute as can be and it's so it's so interesting what you get when you get a rescue um and i do think it's it's a cliche but i do feel like they're grateful i really do i mean i may be projecting that but like i said i've had the fancy breeders i've had way more rescues the rescues always at the end of the day seem more connected almost immediately Well, they get to see life in a different life versus the breeders.

31:22They're more sheltered. So they're more sheltered. Everything is beautiful. Food is there available. And the mother has a background. And they know who their mother, father, and the grandparents. So they know their lineage. And the street dog, actually, he born and he begins to survive. So the whole survival action moment, it allows them to actually see right and wrong. Right. So street smart versus book smart. Right. And so street dogs are street smart. So they know this is a good home. This is our good humans because they're already met. Ten, they're really bad. Right. Yeah. So the gratitude for sure.

32:07So in my house with the five dogs, it isn't necessarily true that the oldest is the leader of the pack. It may have something to do with age, but not always. Is that right? Not always. Not always, no. No, age is just age. You are born to be in front, middle, or the back. That's it. Your job is to find yourself where you fit better in the pack. You know, so age has nothing to do with leadership. It's a lot of elderly elders in a group, but not everybody is the pack leader.

32:57If you are someone who's working hard, so many people listening to this podcast, I'm sure they're working, they have dogs at home, they come home, they're tired, they only have such amount of time to do something with the dog. It's better to go for a walk with them than to take them to the park and throw a ball. And not only is it better to go for a walk with them, but if you only have 30 minutes, put a backpack on your dog. You don't have to purchase a, you know, make your own backpack, put something on the dog. So the dog has a job, a purpose, and that way the energy drains quicker. Ask any fireman what it takes to carry a backpack on their back?

33:32Ask them. So it's not just the walk, it's carrying the backpack that gives them a more focus. And by the time they drop the backpack, they're super tight. So this is a quality time where you utilize walking with your dog, but let him carry something so that those 30 minutes become one hour. So when you meet a dog in public or little kids around dogs, you know and that always can go badly um yes is looking dogs in the eye not in the eye what's the kind of behavior you could teach a kid or somebody else who's scared of dogs or or animals like what what are the signs humans physically can do and not do to help that that interaction go better now this is cultural okay this is super cultural because in mexico we learn no touch no talk no contact.

34:25So no matter where you live, they're going to tell you no touch, no talk, no eye contact, you know? And so if the dog does something to you, they blame you, human, not the dog. Here, kids are being told, you know, ask if you can pet them, right? So be polite, but that's not the right way, right? Because the kid is going to go, oh my God. So they're going to move to the dog and with a strong eye contact because they're excited about it, But the dog has never met them. So it's going to get overwhelmed by that approach. And then when people reach us with the hand like this, this is to the eyes of a dog.

35:03You don't have to bring the scent to a dog. The nose of a dog can pick up on things a mile away. So this is unnecessary. Oh, really? Right. But kids, yes, kids learn to talk to the ears and the eyes. And it should be nose, eyes, ears. Listen to this. Dogs are born with the nose open. Eyes and ears are closed. 15 days later, they open the eyes. 21 days later, they open the ears. Nose, eyes, ears. We are ears, eyes, nose. So when people try to connect with a dog like he's a human being, you're changing the way he relates to the world. That's why dogs smell each other. so when i'm walking on a beach and i see a dog that's cute or that i would like to pet get to know ask a question at the owner whatever it is socialize with the best way for me to approach that dog it's not to approach it's to not approach i'm not to approach let the nose come to you let the nose come to you and you just stay calm and claim your space so he sees that you are an authority figure right and that you claim your space so that way if you want to protect someone from that dog you can't because in his memory you are somebody that he trusts and respect and that you were respectful about it because you let him do nose eyes feeling they don't want to hear you so we should so what i'm hearing which is interesting is that you should there shouldn't ever really be a situation where you walk up to a strange dog and go, oh, look at him.

36:44Right? No. That's so disrespectful to a dog. He doesn't want to hear you or feel you. He doesn't want to be touched by you. Just because I'm a dog lover, who cares? It's best to be a knowledgeable dog lover because that means you're a respectful human. You see what I mean? So it has a more meaning to a dog. Listen, people with horses are way better, right? And people with horses and children would teach a kid not to approach the horse, right? So they're actually more respectful to the horse, right? So a kid that is going to meet a horse, he needs to stay calm and quiet, right? Let the horse come in and claim space because you don't want the dog, a horse to invade your space.