Clint and Ron Howard: If You Love It (Re-Release)

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24:36Rob Lowe:I'm so interested in how what it was like for you. And you write really eloquently about it, you know, and we've all been there. That moment in our career where we're like, what just happened? And like the third lead in the show, well, not even third lead, Fonzie becomes, I mean, unless you live through Fonzie and listen, I'm talking to you, but you, there was nothing bigger. I mean, it was seismic. Seismic. Seismic. Yeah, it was, it was really incredible. I mean, it was, it was, it was kind of Beatlemania, you know, in a way for a while around Henry. and, you know, somehow through all of that, and I write about this in the book as well because there was some turmoil there and some disappointment for me in terms of the way the studio sort of kind of lost their interest in the straight man and fell in love, you know, as they understandably with this, you know, phenomenon of a character and which Henry built from the ground up.

25:36I mean, from day one, he was inventing and owning that character and they just said, hey, we know how to write for this guy and they went for it. And it was, everything about it was appropriate. I was annoyed by the way the higher ups then sort of dealt with me and responded with me. And I write a lot about that in the book.

25:57Rob Lowe:Your story about everybody on the crew getting a wallet and then Henry sheepishly goes, well, I got a VCR. When VCRs weren't invented yet. I mean, literally. No, no, they were just brand new. They were just, you couldn't get one. You couldn't get one. And they were like, you know,$750. No, they were$1 ,500 or something like that. And he got one. You know, it wasn't even the crew. It was just the cast. And we all got wallets. They were nice wallets. They were perfectly fine wallets. But we, you know, everybody was upset about it. This discrepancy, because we were such an ensemble. Yeah, for sure.

26:34We tried it ourselves on that, including Henry. And yet this thing happened. And Henry kind of sheepishly admitted it. And he certainly wasn't going to give the VCR back. So I kind of became the shop foreman and it fell upon me. I think Tom Bosley put his hand on my shoulder. He said, you're the star of the show. First bill. You need to talk to the network. Thanks, Tom. So I made the call and a guy wound up being, you know, a all time great television producer. Bob Boyette happened to be the executive, you know, on the other end of this thing. And it was, you know, and I but I did I was learning a lesson and I was getting some calluses.

27:19And it was I, you know, and I said, look, we're we're an ensemble. It's a tenuous situation because of what's going on with Henry from a kind of an ego standpoint around here. But it's going great. The show's working. We love each other. But when the network does something like this, it's symbolic of something that is not constructive. And I said it more or less that way, even though I was only 20 or 21. I articulated it fairly well. And he was just discombobulated and sort of said, well, I had no idea that Christmas gifts could matter so much. And I said, maybe they shouldn't, but they do. Good for you.

27:58And I'm sending my wallet back. But I later found out I was the only one who sent the wallet back.

28:04Rob Lowe:Well, the other part of it, though, it comes on the heels of, well, this just blew my mind. Didn't surprise me, but blew my mind that Fred Silverman, the then genius, and I'll tell you my Fred Silverman story in a minute, decided and wanted and was going to change the name from Happy Days to Fonzie's Happy Days. Yeah, yeah. It was, we'd done two seasons. Henry had exploded. in the character. And I mean, and it really was that thing you talked about had set in. Yeah. And it would take another year or two to really peak, but it was happening. And Fred Silverman moved from CBS over to ABC. And in the second season, Good Times with Jimmy, J.J.

28:49Walker and Dino Might. Dino Might. Had started sort of beating our show. And Fred Silverman basically believed that Fonzie with the woe could beat jj with the dynamite and uh but he but he wanted to go all the way to call it call the show fonzie's happy days and uh and i um i i declined to cooperate with that john first

29:13Rob Lowe:first of all ron this is loosely inspired by your success in american graffiti first of all uh loosely but the fact is that well the because the happy days pilot actually happened before American Graffiti. The first one. No way. I never knew that. Didn't sell. Didn't sell. I had no idea. Wow. And Marion Ross was in it and Anson Williams, myself, and the rest of the cast was different. And there was no Fonzie character in it. And then the Fonzie character was kind of born out of American Graffiti and Big John, the Paul LaMatte character. By the way, the least interesting, no offense to anybody, the least interesting character in American Graffiti.

29:53Rob Lowe:Yeah, but he caught everybody his attention at the time because he because he was cool but i mean you look back at it now so again yes yes and no they started looking for a 50s show and gary marshall said well you have one you almost picked it up once then the then the lead went and was is one of the stars of american graffiti and we could do it again and they said oh yeah that's great but but he's gonna have to audition again so i had to i had to come in and do a test you know okay fair enough i we I get the part. And I related to that a lot because you say the way, and Clint, I'm sure it's true with you, you treat auditions as a competition.

30:32Rob Lowe:And I want to go up against everybody else. Like, I'm like, great, let's do a side-by-side analysis. Like, I love that. And, you know, and then, so I had the same exact, my iteration with the West Wing. the same everything you experienced in happy days i i experienced with the west wing with bartlett being fonsie uh-huh uh-huh oh right president bartlett was yes was supposed to they literally said he's going to be like the neighbor in home improvement was the direct quote you will hear him he'll pass through scenes eating a donut yeah maybe he'll show up here and there lo and behold and i'm first build yeah i'm i'm the show gets on the air only when they cast me they were not going to put a political show on the air right and bartlett explodes which is all great and i'm like you so happy for him martin's like a second dad to me i grew up with him i live next door i was in his pool every summer from the time i was 13 so it's all good in the hood but then the network in their version of wanting to call it Fonzie's happy days and comes to me and says, oh, I know your first bill, but we want you to give it up.

31:50Rob Lowe:And we want you to be, we want Martin to take first billing. Wow. Wow. This is, uh, well, this is the stuff people don't know about or think about, but where you, but you're telling them you're, you're, we're filling them in. It is crazy. It is the, like the little indignities that are just, they're hilarious, But they're also like, you go, wait a minute. Yeah. It's, uh, it's, by the way, it is also the kind of stuff that I would say that our dad would, like, if I had said, dad, should I call him about the wallet? He would have said, no, you've got a great job. Yes. Don't worry about the wallet.

32:27Yep. Don't worry about the thing. He, he, he, as a lifelong day player, guy scrambling, you know, auditioning to the end of his days. Unbelievable. But working to the end of his days, you know. at age 89. Jesus. He just had this logic. And I think Clint and I both really just benefited from that and sort of not, don't let yourself get caught up in that. That's not what it's about. And somehow if you had a conversation with him, he could help you cut through that clutter. Sometimes you wouldn't bother to talk to him and you would get caught up in that briar patch. We learned a long time ago, dad's get down.

33:06And dad was exactly as Ron described right there. He would say, don't worry about it. It doesn't matter about the gift. But the one thing dad was, and he taught Ron and I, was to be absolutely fearless. When I remember this distinctly, there's, you know, a lot about the boys comes when I was, you know, six, seven, eight years old. And I do have memories, but I didn't really, my conscience, my consciousness wasn't really there. But I'll tell you what. I remember the whole Happy Days thing. And dad, there was no doubt Ron was going to stand up to those sons of bitches at the network. That was a no go.

33:45The thing that they were trying to do, the thing that Silverman was trying to do was an absolute no go. And, you know, dad had a famous, you know, I'm going to put that son of a bitch on my list. And Fred Silverman went on dad's list.

34:04and it was just you know i don't quite know how he got that you know as we as we wrote about the book and that was one fascinating thing about about writing this with ron was you know we knew mom and dad intimately well but in piecing together their backstory i mean they had no business doing what they did. And dad had no business developing the attitudes that he had. He didn't get raised by a great dad. It wasn't abusive or anything, but granddad never treated dad anywhere near the way dad treated us. And dad's attitudes coming into this foreign land, which is show business. I mean, dad was a hick from Oklahoma.

34:49I mean, and he became sophisticated And that's an understatement. Dad was was incredibly nuanced and he just had great instincts. But as far as standing up to network executives or people, he knew when to do it. Wasn't a bully. Yeah, not a loose cannon in any way, shape or form. But part of why we were so well protected is not because he was intimidating in any overt way, but no one no one would would would cross him. And and and part two was he knew what the deal was. I mean, he was a professional actor. He, you know, he hadn't done a lot, but he'd done, you know, he'd done enough. And, you know, he not only taught us great fundamentals that would allow us to be good when the cameras were rolling, but he also just taught us that simple thing, Rob, you know, we were prepared.

35:48We were the most prepared people on the set because we had nothing else to think about. We weren't, we weren't living growing up live. We were just doing this and being kids. And he set us up to succeed. And in a way, I hope the book is kind of a parenting book. I think what they did was sort of mind-blowing. I always say it was a high-wire act over a minefield. And I don't know quite why they made such a percentage of high-quality decisions, but thank God for it.

36:22Rob Lowe:they they really did you know they i met them both briefly because they were in class a movie i did they played they played andrew mccarthy's parents yes right i remember that yeah at the beginning of the movie but and by the way the picture on the cover is the greatest thing ever that that isn't that something yeah okay tell me about that photo and where did you find it what is that it's insane it's so great that was desilu what was then called desilu cuanga An old lot. It had been around since the 20s. But Lucy and Desi owned that lot and two others. Amazing. They owned all of that real estate and were that powerful in Hollywood.

37:03And that's where the Andy Griffith Show shot, along with the Dick Van Dyke Show, along with Jack Benny. Hogan's Heroes eventually came along. That girl, Gomer Pyle later, I Spy shot there. in this little lot that didn't even have a proper commissary or real parking, whereas Carl Reiner and just all these giants doing that incredible work. But that became kind of our hub. And just one day they decided to do a photo shoot of us, you know, and we walked around and there's some shots of us by cameras and whatnot. But they just got this great shot of us walking in by the studio gate, the one that we always walked into from our parking space across the lot.

37:47And, you know, occasionally I sneak onto that lot and go to that soundstage. But, oh, man, what a, the vibrations that I pick up when I just step on that stage, I'm just flooded. It's, you know, it's emotional. The book was emotional, and I didn't necessarily expect it to be. You know, So Clint and I, we've thought about doing books and over the years, we've talked a lot about mom and dad and our growing appreciation of them. Because as we got older and began to understand, of course, you know, you begin to respect them more, especially mom, who I think we underestimated grievously. And I hope the book goes some distance and sort of rectifying that because none of it would have happened without her.

38:33She had just so much life spark and vision and intelligence. But it was actually Tom Hanks. who kind of got the ball rolling on this. Because publishers were coming to me, editors were coming to me and saying, you want to do a book? I had no real interest in doing my story particularly. And one day, Hank, so of course, as you know, Tom's a terrific writer and he was published. And I said, I don't know, do you think I should, am I ignoring something I should do? And he said, yes, but not your whole life. He said, all we care about is how did you do it? What was it like? How did you get through that gauntlet?

39:08And of course, sitting around on the set, those are the stories he likes to hear about. And so he'd heard a few of the anecdotes. I put that aside, but when dad passed away, Clint and I, it fell to us, of course, to put together a memorial for him. And mom had died 12 years before, and we were in the process of doing this and finding it pretty cathartic, but also digging deeper. And of course it was emotional. And I actually shared with Clint, you know, this feeling that I had that Tom had said, you know, your childhoods are interesting. If we do a book about our childhoods, you know, it'll have nostalgia.

39:46It'll have that value. Perhaps it'll answer that question and we've been asked all our lives, well, what was it like? How'd you do it? But it'll also be a chance to write about then. But I would never want to do it on my own. Could we do it together? And, you know, a lot of publishers and editors thought it was kind of a kooky idea that we wanted to share the narrative and bounce it back and forth. the way we wrote it, but we always knew it, you know, it would work. And, uh, and, you know, people are telling us that it really does.

40:13Rob Lowe:Well, because you both have such different point of views and you've had different life experiences. And, and yet it always blows my mind. You grew up in exactly the same household with exactly the same parents, exactly the same input. And, and, and you become like, as I am with my brothers, you become different people. We're really different people. You guys are really different people. And yet you are, you come from the same time and place. Well, you know, Rob, I experienced the 70s completely different than Ron did. I mean, you know, the five-year difference was absolutely beautiful. I mean, first of all, Ron is a wonderful big brother.

40:51He's a great film director. He's a better big brother than he is a film director. But yet, you know, like, he was aware of the Manson murders. He was fully aware when that happened. And I, you know, I guess I remember reading the headlines about smearing blood on the walls, but it didn't compute with me, you know? So my, my perspective being five years younger, I just did, I had a different share in the theater.

41:17Rob Lowe:Yeah, absolutely. By the way, um, I, you know, I love you in Austin Powers. You know, that's what we are shared filmography. It's a giant dick. It's a giant. Hey, you know, Rob, Rob, we share others, not just thrills and chills in Austin Powers, but I was in Youngblood. What? How do I not know this? I did background voices for three days. Amazing. With Peter Markle, the director. Of course. Having played sports, never hockey. I never was on the ice, but I had fully, fully just immersed in sports. And I was working for a lady named Barbara Harris at the time, just trying to make that 312 bucks a session.

42:03You know, that's what actors made. And I got the chance to work on this, this movie. And, you know, so a lot of that background noise.

42:12Rob Lowe:When you go, D, go young blood, it's you. Well, but the other thing, the other thing. He's in, oh, he's in a pot. He's in apocalypse now. You can hear him. No, what does he say? If you know to listen. I know the movie, I know it backwards and forwards. What is it? What scene is it? What is it? I'm dying. It was when Robert Duvall was landing at the beach to go surfing. And there was that kid that was at the helicopter. I don't want to go. I don't want to go. Yes, of course, of course, of course. Yeah, that was me. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait a minute. Not on camera. You're the one going, you're the one going, I'm not going, I'm not going.

42:43Yeah, yeah, that was me. And Fred Roos, who had worked with Ron, And Fred Roos had been a casting associate on the Andy Griffith show. No way. He ended up becoming partners, you know, with Francis. Well, he cast me and the Outsiders. Oh, of course he did.

43:00Rob Lowe:Of course he did. Fred, like, he was brilliant. People go, who is your, basically, who is your big break? And I had fans. Bobby Hoffman was earlier than Fred. Right. But Fred Roos gave me my career. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he gave a lot of people their career. It's always blown my mind that he hasn't gotten some sort of there's a document. Maybe maybe Ron, maybe that's a documentary we should do. Maybe. Maybe so. But he just never cared about it. I don't think. I mean, how many times you ever seen his name in the paper or his picture? Well, yeah, he was in the room. He was in the room when I walked in and auditioned for Star Wars.

43:34Francis Coppola and Fred Roos was there and Gino Havens was there and George was there. And that's when George turned around in his big chair and said, Commander Bailock, Corbynite maneuver.

43:45Rob Lowe:Which is your Star Trek episode dialogue. He was an original Star Trek geek. And I don't know whether he knew it or not, but I mean, that threw me so far off my audition because here I was trying to get an adult role. And he called the first words out of the director's mouth is a recall from some job I did when I was six. I will never, ever forget it, Rob. In my mind, I go, get a fucking life, George. You're probably not the first person who's thought that. Well, but as it turns out, he's had a pretty good life. That's also for sure. At least Clint got an audition. I'm in American Graffiti. I'm hearing everybody's getting an audition.

44:24I throw a couple of hints. Can't even get in the room. No interest. No, that blows my mind.

44:31Rob Lowe:No, no interest in that. By the way, explain in a weird way, because I've worked with directors. I did like about last night, which I really love that movie. I think it stands up. I'm super proud of it. Yeah. And I'm like, Ed Zwick has done a billion. I'm like, Ed, did you lose my phone number? What? Hello? Hello? Ed. Hello, Ed Zwick. Hello. Whatever. But I think that directors, and you might know this, I think they go, that was a time, that was a place. It was huge. I also think there's something about that. You kind of think, well, if it's a big hit, we should do more of them. And I think some directors go, that's exactly why we won't be doing more of them.

45:09Rob Lowe:Yeah. Look, when I started directing, which for Roger Corman, the first real professional situation where I had, you know, actors coming in and auditioning, it was a revelation because I, like a lot of actors, would go away, you know, uncertain, hopeful. And then if I didn't get the part, pissed off and or, you know, or self-loathing would set in. Right, right. Yeah. And in one day of having actors come in and sit down and read and audition, I began to recognize that there's so much talent that easily 80 to 90 percent of the people who entered the room could play the part. so it's never it's never about anything but what's in what's in you the director's mind in terms of your relationship with the script or your sense of maybe what the ensemble is supposed to be that is factoring into this and it truly is not personal um you know unless you come in there and somehow you do something really offensive or ridiculous but people come in do their thing and no one goes out of there and you say terrible yeah not right not what i'm looking for but you know it's a town full of talented people and they show up or you go they're right they could do it they could do a different iteration of the movie that i'm making and it'd be equally as good maybe but it's not my movie but it's not my movie it's not that it's not the choice i'm gonna make and uh i hate the casting process i hate it there's very little that i hate about what we do i still really really love it but casting is the one moment where i feel just awful.

46:48I hate putting people through it. And yet it's so vitally important. It's the most important thing, the set of decisions that you have to make.

46:56Rob Lowe:Okay. One of the things I also I love about talking to you and you and I could talk forever about this is as the business has changed, I remember when the first time a video camera showed up in a casting room and it was like, people couldn't fucking believe it. It was like, how dare they? That's right. So now everybody's on tape. Everybody does everything. And actors now learn how to audition the phrase self-tape. My son is an actor. He's never in a room with anybody ever. Well, when I'm casting people for a movie, I actually try to throw them curveballs and just see what sort of flexibility they may have, even if they're nailing it from the first moment.

47:35I feel like, well, OK, that's that's the default. We have that. What else? Where else could they go? if one of the other actors comes up with something interesting, will they be able to roll with it? Because I'm always looking for this, you know, I'm always trying to create the environment where, you know, the actors can excel. That's kind of my fundamental bedrock approach. I feel the same way about all the key contributors, cinematographers, production designers. Can I be true to the story, maximize the story, follow through on my sense of what it ought to be, but create an environment where these people can really contribute, fully contribute.

48:13Rob Lowe:You have directed nine different actors who are nominated for Oscars. Donna Meachie, Diane Wiest, Ed Harris, Kathleen Quinlan, Russell Crowe, Jennifer Conley, Paul Giamatti, Frank Langella, Glenn Close. So what's the secret sauce? And I'm asking selfishly because I want one. What's the secret sauce for getting an Oscar nomination? I, you know, I think there's a combination of vulnerability, surprising behavioral choices, which might be the actors or it may just nine times out of 10, it's sort of it's sort of baked into the character. And then I think it's a kind of a connection that an audience makes with a character.

48:56And generally, the ones that really, really resonate with people are the ones where they don't necessarily get the character immediately and are won over. And I think that as they begin to, that character somehow finds his or her way into the audience's sense of the movie themselves. And then I think those are the characters that, you know, that people went aboding for. Because they're surprised by how interesting that performance was.

49:24Rob Lowe:Well, which is why people who like Cary Grant, Warren Beatty, Redford, why they don't have a ton of Oscar nominations because they're working from a different groove. And then you get Daniel Day-Lewis who hits you with an insane accent every time out of the gate. Right. And you never know what to expect. What is going on here? You're always surprised. And by 10 minutes in, you're like, I love this. Right, right. Also, acting, even though it may seem like a solitary thing, acting is really a team. You know, you're really only as good as, you know, the people that light you and the director that's giving you that encouragement.

50:05Down to everything, down to the food, down to the wardrobe. It really, you know, at times I have to become just myself and locked in and put on blinders on. but also, you know, the community around a set can really create magic. It's not just me. Listen, I'm just part of a team. I've always felt that. Well, maybe I didn't feel it when I was little, but I just felt that I do feel that it takes a team because one thing I heard Lowell Gantz say one time about, and Lowell Gantz is close friends with Ron and I know Lowell and he's a great dude. You wrote Unhappy Days, but also Night Shift and Splash and...

50:43One of the great comedy writers of all time. Lowell, in talking about A League of Their Own, which is what him and Babalu wrote A League of Their Own, is that the movie gods came down and kissed that movie. It wasn't just the script. It wasn't just the direction. It was a combination. It was Rosie O'Donnell's star was shooting at just the right time. They landed Madonna. The music worked. All of these elements have to come to give what we do that color and that texture to make it really good. And it also matters when projects, you know, are received by the public. You know, what's their frame of mind?

51:22What's come out recently? You know, what's their frame of reference for this project? And, you know, one year a thing might feel special and just what everybody sort of needs to feed their soul or intellect or to escape to. Another year, it might feel like old news or the wrong message or tone deaf. Even the time of the year in which a movie is released, although that's changing now in this century. But, Ron, Cinderella Man. Cinderella Man is a damn fine picture. And, you know, the studio decided to release it in the summer. And you guys got just boat raced by, oh, what was the movie? Oh, yes.

52:03Mr. and Mrs.

52:03Rob Lowe:Smith. Mr. and Mrs. Smith. Great movie. Yeah, great movie. Great movie. It boat raced Cinderella Man. And if Cinderella Man would have been released in the fall, it may have been a whole completely different ballgame. Yeah, we'll never know.

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54:37Rob Lowe:From executive producer Mindy Kaling. This is our sexual harassment training. Hands off your co-workers. Now sign this saying that I trained you or you're fired. Yes, ma 'am. Work relationships are too messy. I just met the woman of my dreams. You've got to chill out and not come out too strong. That goes against my entire personality, but I'll try. Watch Not Suitable for Work, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

55:12Rob Lowe:Okay, so listen, you've got to be a Kubrick fan. Who isn't? Right. You made Apollo 13. Did Kubrick stage the moon landing, Ron? Let's just really get down to it. You know, I had a chance to visit with Kubrick when they were making Eyes Wide Shut. Oh, wow. I came by to visit because I had worked with Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman and Far and Away. Yep. And I wasn't allowed to go on the set, but I hung around in Tom's trailer. and at a certain point, the great Stanley Kubrick came out to talk to me because he wanted to know how we shot the waitlist scenes. What was it really like to fly on the Vomit Comet?

55:54He really wanted to understand what that process had been because he said it was so awkward for us on 2001 with the wires and so forth. So that's what he really wanted to know about. And I didn't get any sense that he was claiming any ownership for having staged the moon landing.

56:13Rob Lowe:It would have been so easy, Ron. What a missed opportunity for you. All you need to say is, you know, I understand the wires must have been hard in 2001, but the moon landing, when you faked that, did you feel that it would have been so... And just see if he twitched or blinked or anything. Yeah, just that easy. My father's father, Engel Beckenholt, believed it was staged. No, really. Never believed it happened. But how could he? Because he was old enough to remember the first flight. or probably he remembers stage coaches he did no yeah exactly 100 and cars yes no new cars that was a new idea and now they're flying and it's only 60 some years later and now they're saying they went to the moon impossible hold on a second i saw a report on the internet a few years ago uh because i like to investigate those things but yeah me too i'm so into it this report said that the moon landing was staged at Iventor Studios there, down there, where we shot Gentle Ben.

57:12And in fact, and this is a report on the internet that Ron and I were up in the rafters of Iventor Studios as they were filming the moon landing. And I just have to disclose that I wasn't there. And if I was there, I had been abducted by aliens and taken there because I have no recollection. I know, listen, working on Apollo 13 was probably the joy of my life. And, you know, it, I know exactly where I was the moment that Neil Armstrong walked on the moon. Me too. I was at Bob Totten's house. I was at Bob Totten's house and it was a moment I'll never forget. And so let, and we know people that flew to the moon and Rob, I, if they really were going to make that kind of conspiracy, Jesus, it would be a hell of a conspiracy because all the people that I know, that worked on the space program.

58:07They said, no, we really went. And they explained to us how. They explained to me how they did it. And it made sense. When they explained it, it really made sense.

58:17Rob Lowe:My favorite Apollo 13 movie story is our great, mutual, dear departed, wonderful Bill Paxton. Yes, I think the last time I saw you was actually in person, was at his memorial, where you were brilliant, and you did a brilliant Bill Paxton impersonation. Oh, thank you. Well, one of my favorite things is was watching him on Che Leno promote. I think I might have said this at the memorial where he was promoting Apollo 13, as he says, during the trophy run, which is how he describes the lead up to the Academy Awards, which I think he stole from Hanks. I think Hanks coined the phrase trophy run. Bill was the great.

58:56Well, what a spirit, as you know, you guys were close friends. But we were shooting this waitlist stuff. and this is this was in an airplane called the casey 135 yeah uh where they do parabolas which are you know sort of like roller coaster like going over the top and then diving back down so the pilot climbs and then he or she because we had a one of the pilots was was a woman they dive down and they actually allow a ping pong ball to rise up and they continue to fly the plane so that the ping pong ball floats. That's how they keep track of it. And then they pull and everything in the plane floats.

59:34You're really free falling, but of course there's no atmosphere around here. You're surrounded by the fuselage. So it emulates weightlessness just about as closely as they can possibly do it. And they use it for training and whatnot. And we decided that if we bolted our sets down, we could give the illusion of weightlessness in the most realistic way. This is before computer generated images could do it really well. But globules of water would float around just as they would in the vacuum of space. And so anyway, it makes you sick. It's called the Vomit Comet. The Vomit Comet. And we would take a cocktail provided to us by NASA doctors.

1:00:14It was a scopalamine, which is for motion sickness, and a half a dexedrine to keep you awake because that stuff will knock you out. Wow. And that was keeping us from getting sick. But one time we were shooting at two cameras going all the time and the actors were weightless, including Bill and the camera operator lost it and projectile vomited all over Bill. And so we then hit the ground and we pulled out. And when you hit the ground, you start pulling two and a half or three G. So you're sort of pressed to the ground. and I'm seeing Bill laying there pressed with like vomit like on. And then he started to float up as the plane started to climb again and go back over.

1:00:58And he floated over to me and he said, this is fucking the greatest, dude. He hurled over me. Give me a towel or something, Howard. And I threw him a towel, floated a towel over to him. He wiped it off and he was ready for the next take.

1:01:14Rob Lowe:That's my man. And he he turned to Jay Leno and Jay said, Apollo 13, it's got a lot of heat for the Oscar. He said, Jay, it's going to win. I mean, it is called the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. Well, turned out he wasn't quite right about that. But we were nominated and Braveheart won. Brian Grazer and I were sitting there next to Jim Lovell. Oh, my God. And we were the front runners. We were supposed to win and it didn't happen. And for a second, we were just stunned. And Jim Lovell put his hand on, was sitting next to Brian, put his hand on Brian's shoulder and said, you know, Brian, I never made it to the moon either.

1:02:04Wow. And it was, you know, maybe not quite as good a moment as actually getting the statue, but it was pretty memorable.

1:02:11Rob Lowe:Before I finish, I want to talk about your relationship with Brian, who I adore and most people do. Yeah, great guy. Great guy. How did you get so lucky to find the yin to your yang? You guys have accomplished so much together and all of it's great. Well, thank you. Thank you. It's, well, don't look too close, but we've had a good batting average. You know, I had other business partners and I had a company. So had Brian. And when we discovered each other, you know, it was it was a revelation to me. Brian reminded me in some ways of a really great producer from Happy Days, a guy named Tom Miller, who later partnered up with Bob Boyatt and was, you know, the list of shows were.

1:02:51Miller Boyatt, Boyatt Miller. Incredible. Yeah. But Brian had something else. Now, I had directed television movies. I was dedicated to this proposition, but I could not make the transition to studio features. and the things I was being offered were, you know, not going to be career advancers in my opinion, nor were they the kinds of films that I wanted to invest a year of my life in making. Right. And I met Brian and he had a great idea for a movie. This one doesn't get made, but it was fascinating. We started to work on it. We took it around. We got quality meetings. We came close. Then he had another idea.

1:03:27It was night shift. He got those doors open and lo and behold, we got Gans and Mandel from Happy Days, you know, Lowell Gans to write. And we got that movie made against all odds. And I saw a guy who could not only really cleverly and adroitly navigate the Hollywood system, he could knock down those doors while he would just get them to open them. He didn't have to knock them down. And he just knew how to do it. And, but he was creative and could have that conversation in a meaningful way. And I just realized this guy just innately understands every facet of this. He's got great marketing instincts.

1:04:08He knows what the executives are looking for, but he also knows a good idea versus a bad one. And he knows how to talk to me as a potential director. And we did that movie. Then we did Splash, which was incredibly unlikely that that would have ever gone. He was heroic in terms of getting that movie going. Again, his idea. and out of all that was just forged a friendship first and a collaboration that was born of two very different guys. We've always been the odd couple. Yes. And yet the thing we align on is a real excitement for telling stories and when we agree, that's when our batting average is at its highest.

1:04:47But we always support one another no matter what. We'll be honest, but if one loves a thing and the other one doesn't quite get it, that's okay.

1:04:55Rob Lowe:And we sometimes make, and I'm not going to ask you to name the names of them, But do you sometimes make those projects where you're like, I don't see it, man? And he goes, well, I really do or vice versa. Yeah, absolutely. And some of them have worked and some of them haven't. But the ones that just about always work, you know, I'd say with a kind of a eight or nine out of 10 kind of ratio of success are the ones where we're both just pumped and we just get it. But now Imagine Entertainment is a different kind of company, as you know. I mean, it's growing. It's got a documentary division, a kids and family division.

1:05:29It's much less bespoke Ron and Brian work. It still supports that and provides us that opportunity. But it's much more about sharing what we know and what we can achieve for other storytellers and their voices. And that's been just a thrilling transition in the last five years or so, as Imagine has kind of moved into, you know, sort of what we call Imagine 3.0. Yeah, you know, I'll tell you, Brian, my perspective, watching Ron launch has been really beautiful. It really has. And, you know, Brian, he doesn't waste a lot of time. He'll take his time, but he doesn't waste time. And the most beautiful thing I ever heard is when he coined the term shitburger.

1:06:14That's amazing. Yeah. Well, that's a shitburger. That means he doesn't really want to work on that anymore. Nah, that's a shitburger. And you know what? Rob, if you've been in the business.

1:06:25Rob Lowe:Oh, there's a lot of them. You know exactly what he's talking about. The worst thing about a shitburger is when you first start eating it, sometimes you think it's fucking filet mignon. That's right. Yes. And it certainly looks great there in between that bun. Doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And then you just get a little garnish. A little garnish? You never know. Guys, this has been great. I urge everybody to read the book. Get the book, The Boys. It's just like you said what I love, I love the fatherhood. I love the love story of your parents. I love I love the brother connection. And I and and it's funny is as headline grabbing and juicy is all of the, you know, gentle Ben, happy days, kid actor stuff is and it is.

1:07:09Rob Lowe:It's it's that other stuff that we can all relate to that I really think makes the book so special. It's it's fantastic. Well, thank you. Yeah, no, thanks, Rob. I appreciate that. You know, listen, we didn't write it to finish second. That's right. I know. I like, I like, like, I liked also picking up how, in the perfect way, how competitive, like, you know, as you guys take your work and stuff. Because I'm the same. I think that's a, I just, I just don't think you survive. Because people ask me, well, how do you, you know, how are you doing it for 40 years? How do you do? And like you guys, and you got it.

1:07:43Rob Lowe:I think it's be prepared. Right. Work your fucking ass off. Right. don't be a jerk at all, ever. But also when it's time to say, you're not calling this Fonzie's Happy Days. Right, yeah. It's time, you gotta stand up. Yeah. You have to have that strength. And, you know, my daughter Bryce is acting and directing and has been now for close to 20 years. And the directing is more recent than that. But, you know, I saw her enter the industry And I very, very early on, I realized I wouldn't necessarily predict stardom for anyone because that's always a bit of a fluke. Right. But I just recognized that she had the endurance and and she had the sense of self that would allow her to to be a kind of warrior.

1:08:35You have to love this enough. This is the thing that my dad used to always say about the business and mom, both of them, because my mom was a good actress and a successful actress later in her life. when she went back into it as a character actress. But you used to say, you don't have to do this. You only should do it if you love it. It's great you're learning this as a kid. That's fantastic. But you can apply what you're learning to anything. And that's why I've been so supportive of you doing it. But you have to find the thing you love. I did. And it's the only good thing my father ever said to me was, Harold, you better find something you love and learn how to do it because you ain't ever going to make a farmer.

1:09:17And, uh, and, and, and, and, but he, but he heard that and that empowered him to chase, you know, an implausible dream, but he did it. He committed and he, and he succeeded, changed the course of our family along with our mom and, and imbued us with that same sense of be there. If you want to be there, don't do it because they'll hire you. Don't be there because you can get the gig. Don't do it for the money. That's wrong. You, you know, be a businessman once you're in the game. Sure. But, you know, you have to be there because you love it and you respect it and you respect audiences. And without that sense of service almost to, to a process, an idea of telling stories, you know, you, you really should move over.

1:10:04You should move over and let somebody who does have that passion take your spot.

1:10:09Rob Lowe:100%. And by the way, I hear Bryce is a great director. Chris Pratt just thinks she's the cat's meow. Oh, oh, she loves Chris. And of course, Bryce has been directing on Mandalorian and doing docs and other things as well. I'm really happy for her. She just, she loves it. And again, she loves it for all the right reasons. And I knew that when I saw her in school plays. Really? She would run to rehearsal. It wasn't about the flowers on the opening night. You know, it wasn't about that. She ran to rehearsal and was a little bummed when rehearsal was over each night. That's when I felt like, well, you know, and then I saw her act and I thought, well, you know, she's it's a little bit like watching somebody who could go straight to the NBA.

1:10:54Wow. Play varsity ball in high school. You know, I feel the same way about her as a director. her. I got an opportunity to be directed by her. She did a piece of a lifetime TV movie, and she hired me to come and be part of this. It took place at a mental institution, and I was one of the clients. I watched her direct, and I called Ron that night, and I was so proud. I told Ron, I go, you know, Bud, you should be really proud because your daughter has it. And the amazing thing about Bryce is she, her mannerisms on the set so mirrored Ron. Really? Oh, the movements, the going from the video village to talk to the actors and talk to the cinematographer.

1:11:40And one thing that she did, she would jump out of her chair at video village and go and talk to the director. And much like what Ron does, she would whisper in the actor's ear to give one last little bit of notes and just talk quietly, except she did one thing that Ron doesn't do, and that she plays with the actor's hair.

1:12:03Rob Lowe:Amazing. I could go on and on with you guys. This was truly great. Ron and Clint, I hope we run into each other in person soon one of these days. It'd be really fun to catch up. Yeah, likewise, Rob. Great. Great to see you again, even if only via Zoom. Take care.

1:12:19Rob Lowe:That was one of my favorite. interviews right there. You were here for it. Let the word go, go forth from this time and place that we just had one of the great podcasts in my humble opinion. Um, there's a lot to unpack there. If you were listening carefully, if you're a father, if you're a brother, if you want to be an actor, if you want to be a director, if you want to be a survivor, or if you're interested in the vomit comet, you know, be either way. There was, there was a lot there. We ticked a lot of boxes. I see the light is flashing on the answering machine here in the studio. That is the low down line.

1:12:55Rob Lowe:Hello, you've reached literally in our lowdown line where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep.

1:13:15My name is Len, and I'm from Venezuela, but I live in Florida. And my question is about drinking. I know you stopped drinking a long time ago, and I'm in the process. And I would like to know if you can recommend a group. I feel like I'm ready. My body is ready. My mind is ready, but I cannot picture socializing without it. And I want to know if you can help in any way, like a link, a community, anything will help. Thank you.

1:13:55Rob Lowe:Wow, what a great call. Thank you so much for that question. So brave and makes you feel all good inside. Um, yeah, uh, first of all, uh, when I decided to stop drinking, I could not imagine life socializing. I was like, I like, for example, I love baseball and I remember thinking, well, I'll never, I'm obviously never going to a baseball game again because why would anybody go to a baseball game if they can't drink a beer? What's the point? And I remember thinking, well, I'm never going to celebrate new year's again. I mean, what's the point? And I remember thinking, well, I'm never going to have fun at the 4th of July again.

1:14:34Rob Lowe:And, um, and, and listen, for the first year, I just did other things. Like I didn't put pressure on myself to enjoy those things in the way I did drinking. I found I would do something else fun on that during that time. And I got to be honest, that lasted for me. I don't even think it lasted a year. I think literally within the first year, I was like, fuck it. I don't, I don't need to drink for this because you've said, you've already said the key thing. You think you're ready. And when you're ready, you're ready. You know, you can't be ready for your, because your boyfriend wants you to do it.

1:15:13Rob Lowe:Or your dad thinks you should stop drinking or you got a DWI and you're worried about your license. None of that work. Nobody cares. That isn't going to ever, ever, ever, ever do it. you have to be ready and you you led with that so congrats and you know look um you know obviously a lot of people have been helped with alcoholics anonymous um i'm a big believer in that you can there's going to be you can just dial you know information in your community uh for the aa hotline and they will provide you with meetings and uh it's it's a it's a great fellowship um Um, and I would recommend that as the first step and, uh, and, and see if you feel at home, my guess is you're going to be.

1:15:57Rob Lowe:And, uh, congratulations. Uh, it's a, it's a great choice and it's a great journey. Um, I would, I would, I would, it's the best thing I ever did by far. And I have more fun today than I ever had in the days when I was, uh, drinking and drugging and doing all this stuff. And, and by the way, I had a lot of fun doing that and I'd still be doing it if it worked for me, but it stopped. So, so did I. All right. Thank you. That was a great, great call. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next week. Don't forget to give us a nice review, five-star review, if you're so inclined on Apple. That helps all the peeps that work on the show, and we appreciate it greatly.

1:16:32Rob Lowe:I will see you next week on Literally. You have been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced and engineered by me, Rob Schulte. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Jeff Ross, Adam Sachs, and Joanna Solitaroff at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. Our talent bookers are Gina Batista, Paula Davis, and Britt Kahn, and music is by Devontory Bryant. Make sure to leave us a rating and review, and we'll see you next week on Lutrily with Rob Lowe.

1:17:12This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

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