Connie Chung: Class Act

0:00Grainger knows when you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building. You're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners. Lights about to fail, filters ready to clog, HVAC on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger for quality products, easy reordering, and 24-7 support. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger. For the ones who get it done. Laminya Mall steps into McDonald's, looks left, sees Pulisic, looks right, sees Jimenez. Gives a nod to Ronaldinho in the corner with a FIFA World Cup meal.

0:39Ronaldinho sees Son in the booth. Son finds Beckham going for extra Big Mac sauce. He's got Davies at the table just behind him. Davies going for his collectible cup. A steal by Henri, who pulls his own collectible cup. Collect one of nine legendary cups with a FIFA World Cup meal. At participating McDonald's for a limited time. While supplies last, all rights reserved. 2026 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 2026. Do you think that's wise? I do. I think I might be Maury. I might be a reincarnation of Maury, even though he's still very much alive.

1:22Hey, everybody. Welcome to Literally. I am super excited for this. Connie Chung is here. She has a new book. It is awesome. She's lived an incredible life and has stories. I mean, I'm really looking forward to Connie. She's always been such a class act. Let's do it.

1:52All right, Connie, welcome to the show. I'm super nervous. No. I'm coughing already because I have a serious journalist here. I mean, your new book, Connie, A Memoir, is out. First of all, congratulations. That is no easy feat. Thank you. But you know what? Well, that's what I used to look like. Oh, can I see? Okay. You look exactly the same. What are you talking about? Oh, please. You look exactly the same. Your wife knows about makeup. This is all makeup. Nonsense. Look at you. Oh, look at yours. Yay! Here it is. Stories I only tell my friends. Yes. Well, and the thing I loved about it the most was in your new introduction.

2:35I didn't finish it yet, but in your new introduction, you talked about your mother and what a good writer she was. And you obviously acquired what she had. And I think my belief is that when a guy has a great relationship with his mother or is very fond of his mother, he'll have a great relationship with his wife. And do you think that that's why you're married for so long? How long have you been married? 35 years. Right on. Right. And you and Maury have been together since 1988. What is it? 84? Well, we got married in 84, but we were seeing each other for seven years with no commitment or anything.

3:26So we could both do our thing. Yes. Same. The same story with my wife. We were like, you know, friends and whatever. And it was like no commitments. Yeah. It's exactly the same story. In fact, I read in your book about the differences that you talk about between you and Maury. Yes. And I literally, in bed this morning, turned to Cheryl, my wife, and said, you got to hear this. This is Connie talking about, and you might as well have been describing me when you described Maury. Well, you know how your wife says that you love talking about yourself? Of course I do. Yes. Well. There you go. That's my Maury.

4:09And also, Maury apparently does not like to do household chores unless told. Hello? Yes. And I really want to know, where is it written that it's Maja, you know, the female person's child? I don't know, but I will speak for Maury when I say this. I've come too far to change a light bulb. Oh, duh. Me too. I mean. And Cheryl too. Her name is Cheryl, right? Yes, that's right. Yeah, okay. Well, Cheryl too. I know. You don't think she got to where she was going just by. But here's the thing. You say about yourself, just like Cheryl, that you're an organite. Cheryl, one of the reasons I fell in love with my wife, Cheryl, was I had this coffee table.

5:00By the way, the fact that I had a coffee table, I was new. I had my first house. I didn't know anything. I didn't know that there was going to be a coffee table. and I was a bachelor. I wanted a beer bong and, you know, TV to watch Monday Night Football. And, you know, so all of a sudden I had a coffee table with books on it that I probably didn't even buy. And Cheryl came over, I'll never forget it as long as I live, and started organizing them in a visually, like, beautiful way. An artistic kind of way. Yeah, and I was like, whoa. I never had a girl come over and do that. Well, you know what?

5:37She must be, we really must have something in common because I call them chorgasms that I get. She gets them 100%. She's like her, like, you know the game Tetris? I do. But my son plays it, but I don't know how to play it. Well, it's like organizing. It's basically just an organizing game. Like, like spatially putting things together. Uh-huh. And she loves it. You guys are very, very similar in that way. I felt like, okay, our marriage is going to be good like Connie and Maury's. It's going to continue for another 35 years. You got it. But tell me this. Is she a little OCD? A little. A little OCD.

6:22I love it. And it's gotten more, shall we say, pronounced? Yes. As we get older? Yes. Yes. I've I mine is out of control. I'm 79 and it's so out of control. I'm really driving Maury crazy. So, OK, this is great to know. So you actually feel that it's progressed. Yes. Yes. I'm getting worse. And what what is what would if you could name like one incident or one reoccurring theme. Because I can tell you, for me, what it is is Cheryl's inability to exit a room or get out of a car without a checklist of adjusting this, putting that in the thing, and grabbing this, and this has to go in the thing. Like, I'm already out and in the restaurant.

7:26I was just about to use the same word you just used, And that was adjusting, adjusting, adjusting something because it's not right because it needs to be, you know, like this instead of like this or, you know, or this. And it's just and my husband says inches. inches same i go i i literally my wife will be will be ready to leave we're running late of course she's always late always late and always late yeah and we'll be running out and there will be like a like a a vase with flowers on it on a table and she will stop in her tracks Uh-huh. And I'm not kidding. Adjust it an inch.

8:18Do you have this where like it's a weekend and you wake up and go, oh, my God. Why? Is it impossible for people to put things back the way they're supposed to be? And then the whole living room has been rearranged because there's vacuuming done or something? Oh, my gosh. I think I need to be married to Cheryl and you need to be married to Maury. But we'd be too simpatico. I think the opposites. See, I know my week, like, I could leave a coffee cup in my bedroom bathroom. Yes. Like next to the toothpaste. Uh-huh. Because that was the last time I had my sip of coffee. It might be there. for a day or two.

9:09I mean, I'm not slob. I'm not going to leave it there forever. I understand. But like, you know, I might get to it when I get to it. Her day is not beginning until that has been moved. Yes. Uh-huh. And the cold coffee is poured out and put a little spritz in it. I mean, just, you know, soap. It's so good. Soak it a little bit. And then you're ready to rinse it before. Cheryl and I are ready to rinse it before putting it in the dishwasher. Let me ask you this. Do you have the nose of a bloodhound? My wife literally will be like, air freshener in cars. She can like, it's just, it's really, and I'm not kidding.

9:56She should work as a professional bloodhound chasing down criminals. and she says, interestingly, it happened post-pregnancy. Oh. Like she has super nose. Right. After each son? Yeah, it happened after Matthew, my first son, like super nose. I wonder what that, I mean, it's so interesting the way biology works. Yes. But it's frustrating because if I've tried to sneak a cigar, she can smell it. There's no sneaking. Okay. But you know what? But our son is named Matthew, too. See, you and I have always been, we had a great meeting back in the 80s, you probably don't remember it, at Cafe Des Artis.

10:42Really? Yeah, we did. I can't believe I don't. But, you know, I don't remember a lot of things. I left my memory on I-95. Go ahead. I understand, but we had a great meeting. We were talking about doing something on your new show. I think it was face-to-face. And we never really got around to doing it, but we had a great talk. I remember it very, very vividly. Oh, my goodness. So I was super excited to read your book. And I have to, I have so many questions. I have more questions. Okay, first of all, you have to tell me about your father being a former spy. Yeah. Pre-communist takeover in China.

11:22You've got to tell me about this. Well, he was very, very secretive because he had to be. And that caused my mother not to trust him ever. Add to that that he was a philanderer. And he'd be in Shanghai working, but he was getting into trouble. He was smoking and drinking and had a lot of women. And she caught him one time. She came to see him in Shanghai because she was stuck at home living with his parents because that was the tradition. When you get married, the woman goes and lives with the groom's parents. She had a wretched mother-in-law. So she goes to Shanghai. She goes to the maitre d' and says, I'm Mrs.

12:19Chung. Please seat me with Mr. Chung. And he said, no, Mrs. Chung is already here. Oh. The dreaded Mrs. Chung is already here.

12:39Summer always changes how you get dressed. You want pieces that feel lighter and more breathable, things that are easy but still put together. That's where Quince comes in. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Think breathable linen and soft organic cotton. And Quince goes way beyond clothing. They have custom upholstered sofas, ceramic cookware, and premium bedding, and more for your home. It's the kind of brand you end up recommending to everyone for everything. One of my producers tried Quince. Here's what he had to say. Yeah, I love Quince. I've had a fantastic experience with it.

13:18I wear the cotton polo all the time. I love the jackets. I love the shorts. I just got a new pair of shorts for the summer. I cannot recommend Quince enough, and the prices are fantastic. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash rob for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com slash rob for free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com slash rob. It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one you can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can get this Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year.

14:06Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover.com slash credit card. The 2026 FIFA World Cup meal at McDonald's is underway with one of nine legendary cups in the lineup. Christian Pulisic, David Beckham, Laminio Mal, Ronaldinho, Thierry Henry, Sun Hyung-Min, Alfonso Davies, Santee Jimenez. And between the posts, it's Grimace. Get one of nine collectible cups with a FIFA World Cup meal. At participating McDonald's for a limited time. While supplies last. All rights reserved. 2026 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 2026.

14:53What did she do when she got to the table? You know what? The story always ended for me right there. Sure. I don't know. You know, because it was when she was ranting about how much she didn't like him.

15:11but the truth of the matter is that their marriage was arranged and yeah I mean they they were very very traditional they lived in a very traditional period my father was born in 1909 my mother was born in 1911 her feet were bound as they They bounded women's feet in gauze, literally, so that they could be this big. And they thought that was appealing to a prospective groom. It was as inexplicable as Victorian waists that were cinched, or as inexplicable as Kim Kardashian's waist, or Jeff Bezos. Big butts? Yeah. Or Jeff Bezos' waist. I mean, wife's waste. It was ridiculous. So then their marriage was arranged.

16:14They were forced to be engaged at 12 and 14 and forced to be married at 17 and 19. so when my father neither of them wanted to do that to get married but they did they obeyed their parents and so my father became an intelligence officer in Shanghai and never could speak about where he was going or what he was doing but he worked under Chiang Kai-shek who was the the leader of the country who had brought the country together, but didn't last because Mao Zedong took over. They left China in 1945. And then I was the only one born in the United States in 1946. So when you were covering the Nixon administration, he was opening up China.

17:16Yes. You must have had all kinds of thoughts and feelings that have been super engaged in that, right? Absolutely. My parents weren't allowed to write to their relatives during all those years after the communists took over in 1949. So they didn't know who was alive and who was dead. Wow. So when Nixon and Kissinger opened the doors to China, they were suddenly able to write. And the reason why they couldn't write was because they wanted to get their citizenship in the United States. Because they came here because my father was working for the Chiang Kai-shek government. When they came in 46, the communists didn't take over until 49.

18:07So my father and mother found out who was alive and who was dead. It was quite an emotional experience for them.

18:18So when—try to walk people through who didn't live through it, and certainly people who didn't have family there, what opening up China was at that time. It truly was a mysterious world that Americans had no idea about, right? That's not an overstatement, is it? No, not at all. Well, it suffered, the people of China suffered through the cultural revolution in which Mao forced them, all the intellectuals. Actually, it kind of sounds not unlike, forgive me, I shouldn't get into. Politics-free zone? No. Yes, free, yes. Politics, no. But no, you can do whatever you want. No, can't go there. Just can't go there.

19:11Basically, what was happening was that there was an attack on intellectuals or people who had higher learning, and they were subjugated to work in fields and the like. When I went to China for the first time with NBC, I was able to see some relatives who had lived under that rule. And it had kind of loosened up by the time in the 80s, 1980s. So, but we had, when I went with NBC, we had minders who followed us wherever we were going and tried to suppress the press. In other words, but at that time, we in media in the United States were a free press. not so much now. Well, you, that's the other thing is you, like people, people talk about like what it was like to be in movies in the 80s.

20:29And I go, that was the last of the golden age. I mean, it went on, but like I caught the last of the golden age of what it meant to be in movies, in TV and in a way that it had been forever. Same with you. You literally worked with Walter Cronkite. Yes. I mean, the notion of what Walter Cronkite represented today is like you can't imagine a world in which that existed. Yeah, it's evaporated. It really has. I mean, I remember growing up to Cronkite. Everybody grew up. He was, I mean, he ended the Vietnam War. Yes. He did. When you lose Walter Cronkite, you've lost the country. You're so right. You're so right.

21:19Yes. And here's what's interesting about that. I think there's more to be said about that. Is that newscasters, I guess that would be the phrase for what they were. Yes. Were, they truly were apolitical. They had no agenda. you didn't watch them and go, oh, I know how they would be voting. And so when Cronkite had an opinion, it was so like earth shattering to the country. Yes. Like you were like, oh, he's soured in the Vietnam War. Then you go, oh, then that's significant. Whereas today, and you know, you live through the Dan Rather area, Dan kept it on the down low a little bit, but you kind of knew or Dan, where his bread was buttered.

22:11And it's only gotten more and more explicit since then to now where there's no one person, I can't think of anybody, where you don't know exactly how they would vote, what they would feel about anything as they're supposedly reading you news without it. Unbiased news. Unbiased news. Facts. But then we also know that the minute they put the news under the entertainment divisions, it was a ratings thing and people want to hear opinions that match theirs. So I kind of understand it. I mean, do you think that's a good assessment? Perfect. You did that so well. And, you know, I think that people don't necessarily know you to be the person that you are.

23:04If they read your book, I think they'll learn a lot about you. And that's, but my husband already knew about you. He's a voracious reader. He's not just determining the paternity of every child in America. He's like, he reads all day, all night. I mean, he's just a reader. And he's a very good writer. I think being a reader helps you become a good writer. 100%. One billion trillion percent. It's formed everything for me. And I read, you know, as a kid, I couldn't wait for Time magazine to come out. Yes, I know. I agree. And you would just devour it. And that's the only reason I know, like I saw that you covered John Dean.

23:59John Dean was like a hero to me. Yeah, me too. I was like, and I finally got to meet him many, many, many, many years later. You did? I did. I got to meet John Dean and also people loved in my house. I grew up in a very, very democratic. I can't. I sold Kool-Aid for McGovern. I sold Kool-Aid and I met him on the Dayton courthouse steps. I was so, this tells you how little I was. I was so little that I could walk under the police sawhorses. Oh, okay. So I must've been really small. Yeah. And I walked up to him and I pulled on his raincoat and I said, Mr. McGovern, I hope you win. And he looked at me and he said, me too.

24:41That's wonderful. He was my beat. It was one of the first big beats that I had was to go on the campaign trail. And that's where I think I really learned my chops because we had to be on our toes every second. And we really did cover the candidate. Unlike now, it's a different paradigm.

25:11Candidates basically campaign a completely different way. Right. But we were with him 24-7, and it was painful to be with somebody 24-7 because we could see how vulnerable they were. We could see the blemishes and the pimples, and we could see that presidential candidates just simply have the audacity to believe that they could be the leaders of the Western world. And they're just ordinary people. They just have over-bloated egos and mindsets to believe that they can rule the world. the one thing I learned that was helpful in being a reporter was that I was always early to bed in fact did you ever read The Boys on the Bus?

26:09Yes you did I love all this the campaign even Fear and Loathing and What It Takes is my all time favorite of all the books you're so right What It Takes is the one Ben something Kramer Ben Kramer Yeah. What's his name? If people haven't read, if you're all interested in the West Wing or politics or Ben something Kramer. Something Kramer. Isn't it? Richard. Thank you. Richard Ben. Richard Ben Kramer. What it takes. Yes. And don't be freaked out by how long it is. It's stunning. It's a wonderful political book. Stunning. I mean, you're so right. That was one of the all-time great books. Even better than many of the Theater of White books.

26:56Yeah. Did I say that right? Yeah. Yeah, you did. Theater of White. Yeah. So, in The Boys on the Bus, Timothy Krauss, who wrote it, said that I was always, he had the room next to me in some hotel. And he said, I was always early to bed reciting my last radio spot before I was up and at him early in the morning with my microphone and sticking it in McGovern's face. And then I would realize that the New York Times or the Washington Post or the Boston Globe would get these scoops. and I figured out how. They were down at the bar getting the campaign aides drunk and then they'd spill the beans. So forget about going to bed early.

27:49I went down to the bar because I knew how to drink from college. And there I was, you know, chugging whatever I wanted to chug, whether it was a beer or a gin or tonic or a scotch or whatever. But because I was so young, I was able to get up and still be, you know, spry in the morning. That was the culture of drinking. Yes. Was he, I remember, and again, I caught the tail end of it, but I can remember seeing Ted Kennedy literally crawling on his hands and knees. Oh, my God. At a function. I mean, and people routinely hammered all the time. Yes. Routinely. Yeah. That was the drug of choice, if you will, back then.

28:43And people of both sides of the aisle would get obliterated together. Yes. They would hang out together. And then they would, you know, wake up in the morning and then disagree and hector each other. But there was always like, that's the other thing about the world today is people didn't openly root for the other side to fail in a way that happens today. They go after each other. Yes. But they would literally have a drink. Yes, they would have. There was camaraderie in the old days among people on the hill. They would drink together, they would eat together, and they would socialize together. So they got to know each other as people.

29:36So even if they disagreed politically, they were more human. Today, they're all rushing back to their districts and trying to get elected or their fundraising. Oh, that's interesting. It's, yeah. There's a great, there are a lot of great pictures in your book, but I mean, my favorite is the picture of you in the Nixon Oval Office. Oh, yeah. It's you in a sea of white 65-year-old men. And by the way, you're fit, as the kids would say, is sick. And I realize because you wanted to be taller, you've got the high heels and you're in like this 70s It's so, and they're all looking at you. And there's one guy in particular.

30:27I mean, everybody's doing a good job of acting chill, but there's one guy next time you look at it who's looking at you literally like you're like a butterball turkey on Thanksgiving. It's just like, it's so funny. Rob, I would get that look and I called it in my book, if you'll forgive me. I could see the sperm swimming in his eyes. And it was like going, and I could, I identified that look that every woman has seen before. It's that look. And it's like, oh, come on. Really? This guy making no attempt. It's one guy is making, he's literally looking at you with his cartoon tongue unraveled. Yes.