Eli Roth: Urban Legends

26:26And then you might get, like, a baller clip of, like, yeah, he fucking threw down. Yeah. And then you think of what is that going to be? For sure, my bro, we know what yours is. We know what yours is. It's going to be a baseball bat. It's a fucking baseball bat. It's a baseball bat. You're fucked. You're swinging the baseball bat. But at least you get one. That's all right. I feel like that's a great one. I think they'll go through the clips and be like, well, his movies are too disgusting. And what are we going to put him from? Piranha 3D? No, let's do the bat. Boom. R.I.P. In memoriam. By the way, not to be morbid, but if that work come to pass, that might be the single greatest clip I could imagine anybody having.

27:11Wow. Thank you, Rob. Really? Well, I think the advantage that I have really is that I've just basically done one movie and then it's high and lacking. So now I don't want to do anything else that might screw up my chance at having a really good in-memoriam clip. That's it. But look, at least I'm known for something. I mean, I'll take it. It's, first of all, that movie, Inglourious, is one of my favorite movies of all time. I love that. Thank you. And I've always wanted, I've never worked with Quentin, always wanted to, shout out to Quentin if you're listening. There's so many, for me, like, Quentin's movies are never perfect.

27:55Like, he's never made a perfect movie, but what he does do is he gives you so many set pieces that are fucking amazing that it doesn't matter. Like, we can all name perfect movies. Like, we talk about whatever your perfect movie is, and there's many, many, many of them. Shawshank Redemption, Rosemary's Baby, whatever the fuck they are. But you don't talk about them. You don't go, oh, how about the part where? You don't quote them. You don't talk about, hey, how about the moment when? Or how about this scene? And all that fucking scene. You just don't. I've never talked about this by the way I've seen the Shawshank Redemption twice maybe it's a perfect movie last picture show perfect movie I don't talk about it Susan Cain once upon a time in Hollywood and when you do it you're watching it you're just like and Quentin called it a hangout movie he's like you just put on the movie you just want to hang out with these guys and you're like and what Quentin did was he really brought back what the 70s had which is just great writing great characters and letting a scene breathe and when he was shooting Bastards he was a little bit like I'm kind of worried that the first 25-30 minutes of the movie it's just the scene in French and German where it's just three people talking and I'm just like dude this is the best I was like if you would put this on stage not only we have the Tony they'd give you a Pulitzer prize for this writing the squirrel the saucer of milk versus a rat the saucer like you know the dairy farmer it's perfect then when we got to the theater he's like finally I can move the camera around he's like everything else is just you know but you think of the tavern scene the mexican standoff the way he just you know because he thinks every character is a 360 degree character as if he thinks of the whole movie from their point of view and the whole world like he'll spend years building out what that world is and what that person was doing before and everything leading up even if they have one or two lines like so his movies are true in the way that james cameron thinks of every detail of the flora and fauna of Avatar.

29:55Nothing is by accident. He understands every creature, how they interact with every plant, the whole system. He just has that kind of mind for it. Quentin does that with his world and with his characters. And I was just lucky enough to play one. I remember the first day of, we were going to do a rehearsal with the bastards. And he's like, close your scripts. And he's like, what did you think when Aldo approached you to be in the bastards? And where are you from? And we just had to talk for hours in character about our characters. and there was one person who's like, well, I was just like, I only had two lines.

30:26He didn't really think about that. I just thought of those lines and that guy was gone the next day. We're like, whoa, guess there's only nine of us. Like, Quentin's like, what do you think this is? Like, how do you know? Like, not everyone talks all the time, but you know how you relate to these guys. You put no thought into it. He's like, I didn't think I had to. So I was like, you know, it's that kind of thing where he just wants to know. He wants you to know, even if it's never discussed, like the audience has to feel like we all know how long we've known each other who they in the way that you do when you hang out with a group of friends if a dog walked by if a girl walked by if a weirdo like you know how every single person would react Quentin knows that and that's it's it's in the writing but it's also you know he he's great at kind of picking interesting people that you wouldn't I was not the obvious choice for that and then you know that's what made it you know I think interesting was that I had to go like a thousand percent to make it you know it's like, Jesus.

31:18And then for him to cast Christoph Waltz, who's a complete, no one knew who he was. And this guy's just like out of nowhere at 54 years old wins the Academy Award because Quentin, and Quentin had spent$2 million of his own money in prep. And he's like, if I don't find Londa, I'm going to shut it down and not make the movie. And there were so many actors that wanted to play that part. And he's like, I don't know, it doesn't feel right. This guy has to be, I don't have him yet. I kind of want an unknown. I don't want you to know who this guy is. I don't want you to have preconceived notions of him and then it was like the other people were like oh yeah there's this new kid out of ireland new kid like michael fassbender and they're like oh this guy from germany daniel brulee he just did goodbye lennon and this other guy august deal is supposed to be good look what til schweiger is doing and this girl melanie laranke gave a great audition like and oh diane kruger wants to be in it that's so cool like it but you know diane was big it's like diana brow with the biggest stars but everyone else was like wow these european actors we'd sit there where it was just like, man, this is, I've never seen actors, you know, any actor like can do like actors that had one or two lines became like major stars.

32:23I'm glad that you brought that up. They, you know, when people talk about acting and they talk about that famous quote that there are no small roles, only small actors. Oh yeah. Like if I ever do talks about that, I show that sequence, the bear juice sequence. because whoever that fucking German on his knees. Richard Sammel. Who, when he goes, I see you wearing a medal. What's the medal for? And what is it? Bravery. Bravery. Dude, his line reading of bravery is among the best performances in the movie. I know. He's an amazing actor. And I don't know. Very special guy. I can't tell you why other than that motherfucker almost steals that entire scene with one line.

33:19I know. It's insane. And for me as an actor, it makes it so much easier. I remember I'd heard that, like, isn't it scary acting with those actors? It's like, no, when actors are that great, your reaction, you just level up, you focus, you change. Also, shooting on film, once you hear the clap and then you're like, okay, it's go time. There's something that clicks in you when you know you're burning film and not just like, well, it's digital. Let's just try it this way. Try it this way. When Quentin doesn't shoot multiple cameras, so many things I took from Quentin. There's no two or three cameras.

33:56He lights for a proper close-up and he moves the camera close. It's not like, oh, we get a wide and then do a telephoto lens because then you're lit for the wide. he moves the camera close and he lights you and he stands next to the camera so your whole performance is going to change and Richard Samuel is a fantastic actor Quentin's like this guy has a face out of a Sergio Leone film he looks like he's right out of Once Upon a Time in the West or Good, the Bad and the Ugly and that is the truth and Christoph said that about there are no small parts only small actors that when you have someone like Richard Samuel that has one line and he goes bravery You're like, wow.

34:32You know that guy's whole career, his whole character in that one world. And that's the power of a great actor is that there are actors that are like, why aren't I talking more? And as you know, they do that thing where they speak a little slower so they get more time on camera. And I'm always like, I call it camera time. I'm like, oh God, can you get enough of the camera time? Like you're getting yourself cut out of the movie when you do that. I don't mean speed through it, but don't keep score of how many lines and how many seconds you're in the movie. Just focus on delivering that. Like it's the only thing you'll ever do in your lifetime.

35:12It's really, but it is crazy. And I remember the director of Cannibal Holocaust, Roger D 'Addara, amazing director. He was the assistant director of Roberto Rossellini and Sergio Corbucci. So he learned from the master of onscreen violence and the master of Italian in neorealism. And then he makes Cannibal Holocaust and the Barbarian Twins. Some great movies. But he told me, he was like, he goes, big actor, big star, no problem. Beginner actor, no problem. Middle actor that thinks they deserve to be big actor is most problem you'll ever have in your career. And he's totally right. Sometimes you want to get a star, you go, this person has some credits, I like them.

35:49And they come in and it's just like, whoa, why is this person, I thought they'd be cool. They're just causing all the problems. They're saying all their lines really slow. They want extra bits. I was like, but the scene works. I've spent months crafting this. It's going to work great. And you're going to be great in it. Just trust that it's, but that's exactly the scene when we see Richard Samuel, bravery. Guy steals it. He's incredible. The other thing in Waltz, obviously, it's a storied Hollywood legend, but that, and it's not a debut. He's like, the other part of it, he's a journeyman actor.

36:23Journeyman, working, working, working, working, working, working, working, working, sort of in, in Germany and German-Austrian projects and then gets this. But it's one of those moments as an audience member that you never forget in movies. And how many of those do we get in a lifetime? Really? Where you remember where you were and I turned to my wife and go, he's winning the Academy Award this year. Literally, he's five lines into this scene. The movie hasn't even been reviewed yet. It's like opening weekend. You're like, oh, it. This guy's winning the Oscar this year. We knew it. And we were so happy for him because he was the least one who cared.

37:02He didn't want to... Quentin sort of kept him from hanging out with us so that we all wouldn't be too... So we were a little afraid of him. Amazing. And he said when he was studying for the part, he wasn't... I don't think I'm speaking out of school saying this. He just didn't listen to music. He didn't watch. He didn't do anything. He just read the part. That was it. Nothing. He was so focused on Londa that all he would think of is how can I make the most out of every single moment. And he's the loveliest person. I adore Chris Off. He's such a nice man. Such a nice guy. But it was incredible to see that.

37:33And another actor that's sort of having that moment is Chris Wells, is Walt Goggins. Like, you see Walt Goggins. Like, we saw him in Hateful Eight. We loved him on Justified. Then in White Lotus, when Sam Rockwell is delivering that monologue. Dude, he's stealing it from Sam Rockwell. He's stealing that scene. He's stealing it. His reactions are subtle of like, there's like a hundred things going through his brain. and he's trying to say and not say. You're just like, and this is like the best writing, the best acting. And you're just watching him like do these sort of little trying, like the amount of, and making it look effortless was just like the amount of things going on in that.

38:11It's like, I've never seen anything like it. It's like when DiCaprio once upon a time in Hollywood, when he has the stutter and then the meltdown in the trailer, and then he has to be Caleb, and then he's vulnerable. It's like, he's playing like six different roles at the same time. the level of skill these actors have you're just like whoa rosamund pike is like that in gone girl you're like yes or saltburn you're like oh my god these actors are just you know i've never seen anything like it it's so inspiring i get you know look we all you get to a point in life no matter what you do you've seen a lot you've done a lot and you get i don't want to say you get jaded but you've seen a lot.

38:50So nothing is, less and less is surprising, less and less is transportive. And so when you do see stuff like that, and it's so funny, every performance you just mentioned, I 100 % concur. It reminds you of why you do what you do and what you hope to do and what you hope you get a chance to do. And I mean, dude, those performances are next. How about another performance in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood that I love is Kurt Russell when he finally has to shut Leo up, who's auditioning Brad as a stunt guy. He'll do that. He'll do a stunt fall. He'll do this thing. I don't really care. And he's going on and on.

39:37And Kurt's like, yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. And then finally goes, hey, man, I don't like the guy. I don't like the vibe he brings to a set. there's something about, again, that line reading, that moment is so lived in. I know. When he just goes, fucking guy killed his wife. But that's what Kurt Russell is the greatest, because he's just been doing it since he was a kid. He's never bad. He's always so, whether it's The Thing, whether it's Jack Burton, and whether it's, you know, John Ruth. And Quentin really appreciates Kurt and everything he has. And Quentin has such reverence for that period and that history and those guys that like, and that's exactly it, is that Kirk can come into a movie, you forget, it's like he could easily be the star of the movie, but he's coming in to play this character and he's just like, and like Pitt, when you see Pitt, when he's just like, you know, I'm going in there, and he goes, and this ain't stopping me.

40:37Just the way he flicks the screen with Dakota fans, like fine, like that whole scene with Bruce Stern, it's so creepy, at Spahn Ranch. And that's Quentin. He lets you, he's in no rush. David Lynch does that too in his own way. Quentin's got his own rhythm, his own pace. He's here for the characters and you can either hang out with them or not. That's why we're here. We're here to hang out with these characters and watch them do their thing and be with them in this moment in time, completely absorbed in it. And that's all that matters. There's nothing else. And then roughly, that's what it is. And it's like, look, I mean, you've had, you know, you know, a storied career and had like so many different, almost reinventions for different generations.

41:20Like some people would only know you from West Wing. I know you from that period, but like, you know, it's like the image of you and Nastassia Kinski in bed and me being like in a theater at the Chestnut Hill Cinema, being looking around, like parents being like, am I allowed to be seeing this? And it was like so comedic. And I was like, the brother and sister having sex. Like this is so, it was so like, there was like energy. The whole theater was laughing. Like we wanted to see you guys do it. And then we were like, oh no, there's something. But then, you know, going to see all the like kind of 80s movies at the same time, you know, it's like we go to the theater to see, you know, the young buds, like all your movies.

41:55And then we would go to the video store to rent like Faces of Death. It was like two different viewing experiences. Yeah. Oh, yes. Theaters with your friends. And then there was like you and your friends at a sleeper because VCRs were available for the first time. So it's like there were two different parallel movie going experiences. and then you know that's what i was so interested in doing with the devil and not to keep bringing back that but like that thing ended like it was just like that thing you sort of did at charlie sheen's house it's over no it wasn't it was like overnight people were like this is actually dangerous like we told you and the worst part is the parents were like we were right see because we could be like guys it's stupid it's makeup it's a movie we know that it's fake it's just horror movies it's just heavy metal they're just screaming about you know they're singing about chopping people up like remember the mentors was like some kid albums like the mentors they were like the most inappropriate filthiest band and you're like it was all a joke and then this stuff happened you were like oh my god now like people are looking at us like we might be murderers so it's really interesting i'm psyched to see it i can't i can't wait to see it it's gonna be it's gonna be super sick

43:23um what else i'm gonna ask you man i'm so i'm just trying to think here oh i know what i want to ask you you were is this true i get these documents when i have people on um you it's all true all of it it can't be true dude get this to fund his films while in college he worked as an online cyber sex operator for penthouse posing as a woman i i did i was what i mean first of all Now you would call that catfishing. But back in 1992, I walked into my friend's room and I was like, what is that? And it was a computer turner. I was like, this is called a modem. It's 800 baud, B-A-U-D. And 800 speed was like a FATS machine.

44:10And you could type a character and it would like be there a second later. And it was like a terminal. I was like, what are you doing? He's like, well, Penthouse is paying me to do this. I'm like, what are you getting? he's like$12 an hour. I was like, wait, what? He's like, you just have to make up a character, pretend you're a girl. And these people want you to type dirty messages to them. I'm like, wait, but do they know your guys? Of course not. But Penthouse knows they're only hiring guys because they know that guys are the only ones sick enough to hear what other guys want. But it was just literally text messages.

44:43So I go, but who's on the internet? This is like, nobody's, what is the internet and they're like it's doctors and scientists that get like terminal access that like so it was like rich new york city people and like doctors and scientists and like very wealthy people that were spending 50 cents an hour or like 50 cents a minute or a dollar a minute to talk to us so these guys were spending like hundreds of dollars a night so i was like i gotta do this i gotta do this so i'd be like i mean i can't really explain what we said without being too graphic but we would have like 20, I actually had 20 people in my dorm room all around going, yeah, cover your tats.

45:21Like, just like, no, no, no, don't do that. You're not that kind. No, make a way for it. Make a way for it. And then I went, I remember going back to Boston to my parents' house and I was typing and I was typing like 100 words a minute. My parents were like, where did you learn to type so fast? I was like, I don't know. I've been at screenwriting school, mom and dad. All the money you're spending on my education. But the last night, I'll never forget it. Like I had all these different characters. One was Mireille, the beautiful bisexual French girl who couldn't understand why it was illegal to sunbathe Tapas in Central Park.

45:50Like beyond her. She kept getting arrested. Then I was like Tammy or something who was like a heavy metal, like groupie who had like had sex with all the members of, you know, Guns N' Roses and Poison. Like that was her whole thing was like being like she's like a heavy metal sex maniac. And just other ones. Then there was Allison who was like divorced and she was a writer. And so she was trying to meet characters. And she would like try to be sexy, but be bad at it. And the men were like, Alison, I can't have sex with you. I respect you too much. Like these guys, and I'd be like being different girls.

46:22So I'd see how they were. The same guy was, they didn't know it was the same person. And then the last night we were quitting. We had to like return the terminals. It was like, it was like over for summer break. I was like, we're not going to bring this back to Newton and do this with my parents. Because your line's busy. My parents were trying to call you between nine and three. Your phone's just like, are you on the phone all night? Like what's going on? Because it was a busy signal. We were like, dial up modems with 56 ,000. This was 800. So the last night we went on and we're like, we're going to tell them.

46:49We're telling them we're guys. And we did it. I remember us sitting there like Dr. Strangelove hitting the button. Like we typed out the full confession and we were like wrestling, going do it, no, no, no, no. And we hit send. And we told them like, we're guys. You know, penthouse only hires guys, you know. And the guy goes, ha ha, you're so funny, Tammy. Shut up. Tell me what you're wearing. We're like, no, I'm serious, dude. were actually guys. It's like, Tammy, you are the best or whatever. Like they wouldn't believe it. And there was one guy that started like getting cash from someone. I was like, oh, this could get creative.

47:21Someone, if I was like, my parents were like, this is so immoral. I was like, I know, but it's funny. And it's like giving me great character ideas. And they were like, I'm like, yeah, okay. It's very, like, it's completely catfishing. And it was, it was penthouse. There were ads in the magazine. It didn't say me right. It was like, come talk to our penthouse pets. If you have a modem, it's, you know, 50 for the cheap price of 50 cents a minute to talk to a girl on the internet. And it was me. Dude. I paid for my student films. And here I am directing. I will reimburse any of the guys. I was good at it.

47:58I beg you. I beg you to make that movie. But now people would be like, why is that a crime? That's everyone I talk to. Everyone's a phony. Everyone's every fake profile. I feel like there'd be nothing shocking about it now. I wanted to for a long time. People were like, yeah, that's what people do on the internet. Now it's AI. Now it's not even a real person. But I think that's why now you do it.

48:25Because it's like, how did we get here? And you talk about a time when it was so quaint and so unbelievable. And I would watch the shit out of that movie. because there's also 10 different great movie versions of it. Like as you're telling the story, I'm like, oh, there's the Paul Schrader version, which is super sick. There's the Alexander Payne version, which is super sick. There's the fucking Seth Rogen version, which is super sick. There's like a bunch of them. I know. I know we thought of doing it like the single white female, Barbette Schroeder kind of like. do like a 90s thriller kind of thing.

49:09But it's also about, you know, how the men were like, oh, we have a new way to lie. We can have a double life. It was like, I can hide my identity. It's like American Psycho time. You know, these very rich Wall Street guys and doctors that were like, oh, this is a way for me to cheat that my wife will never know about. It was really like weird. Like it gave me a lot of insight. Everyone's like, where'd you get the ideas for those businessmen in Hostel and stuff. I was like, well, you know, when you pose as that, you see another side of what the so-called professional class that you've been bred, that you grew up in.

49:45I grew up around doctors in Boston, my father's a physician, and Boston, Harvard doctors and business people and lawyers. And then you get to New York City and you're like, oh, is this what people are like? Like, why wouldn't you just go out and meet a girl? Like to me, you know, we're in college. We're just like, go to a club, like go out to a bar and meet somebody. But like living a double life and talking from between one and three in the morning in your apartment and then begging me to come there, like I'll give you thousands of dollars in cash, come meet me. I want to meet you in person. Oh, the other thing is one guy's like, then you'd have to be like, my real name is Alice.

50:23I have to quit. One guy did that. He was like, my name is, you know, is like Isabella. My name is Alice and I can't afford to do this anymore. I have to go back to stripping. I was just doing this to pay my bills for school. The guy's like, don't leave me. I'll start supplementing you. And he gave him an address. The guy started dropping off like tens of thousands of dollars anonymously. So this guy wouldn't have to go back to stripping. That's what I was like. That's crazy. There were four of us. And like one guy was like, I was like, I'm not going to like lie to people to get cash. I will take the$12 an hour paycheck.

50:59Because I love that my check had the penthouse key on it. I thought that was hilarious. But when I was 20 years old, I was old enough to drink barely. But yeah, it got weird. But that was the 90s. It was a strange... There was a dark underbelly. If you wanted to go looking for it, people could hide double lives a lot easier back then. Now, that version, that's the Fincher version. I want to see the David Fincher iteration. I might. It's good to know. It's a good story. So yeah, it's real. You have to. I'm begging you. You have to do that movie. I mean, very few people have had that. I mean, people obviously have done that, but no filmmakers.

51:41Yeah. It was a weird, I mean, it's almost like, I don't know. I remember seeing the messages coming up and having to switch characters and talk to 15 different guys at a time. Because if you're good at it, you get popular. And people have the regulars. And then someone's like, oh, if you dealt with this guy, this person won't shut up. They just want to ask you about what you're doing, what your day is. I'm like, God, I got to make up all this stuff. I got to think of all this backstory. Meanwhile, there I am having 30 different conversations, switching back and forth. I had five different personas who I was having 10 to 15 different conversations with different guys.

52:17And sometimes you have to keep notes, but it's all just like boom, boom, boom. Like you're keeping track. I'm like, it's like flipping channels in your brain. There's something about it that I was like so naturally good at it. Because it stops, like the filthy messages was a component of it. But once they like you, all they want to do is talk to you. So you can get that out of the way. and then they'll just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. So it was really just like, for me, it was writing dialogue, creating characters, thinking of backstory, all the stuff I'm supposed to be learning in screenwriting class.

52:52When kids are like, I'm going to write Blade Runner 2 as my movie. It's like, well, you're a student. It's probably not a good idea. Maybe write something that's like based on a person's experience. Whereas I was just like sitting there every night for six hours a night from nine to three in the morning, having multiple conversations with like weirdos and rich businessmen and strange things so i look back now you know all these years later like you know 30 like over 30 years later and i was like what a crazy experience that was but it really helped you know i look at it as just training for writing honestly it's the it's unbelievable that that and now that iteration you you talked of, I thought Anthony Minghella doing a version of...

53:35Tom Ripley is truly one of my favorite characters. I've read all those books, watched all the versions of the movies. Same. Purple Noon, American Friend. Purple Noon is the first property I ever optioned as a young actor. Wow. God, you would have been such a good Tom. Wow, I would have loved to see you with a... Wow. I know. Wow. I mean, you could have been Dickie, but you as Tom, my God. Alain Delon, you were perfect for Tom Ripley. Wow. Yeah, I never figured out a way to do it, but that was someday. I love that. I love that genre, Patricia Highsmith. No, I've read all five books. It's like Patricia Highsmith is one of my favorite writers.

54:19The only book she ever wrote without a murder was The Price of Salt, Carol. It's the only one, the love story. Every other book she ever wrote. I mean, such an amazing writer. well dude this has been this has been amazing you i i knew we were gonna have a great talk but uh this has surpassed anything that i i i thought we could go on another five hours we'll have to we could come back we have to come back and do like a whole deep dive and like what your favorite horror like i want to i want to i'd love to i want to talk like robert eggers with you and like budgets and like my theory that the more special effects the the least good the movies are i have a whole bunch of shit I want to run by you.

54:58I want to do a deep dive on Halloween. I mean, all that. There's a lot. There's a lot. There's a lot. We'll do this again, for sure. We'll do it. But in the meantime, yeah. Let the Devil In, it's premiering August 31st on MGM+. There's four episodes. It's a docuseries. It's fantastic. I mean, Brandon, who was there at the time, got people after his podcast, which was a huge... like he got people heard it and it let people coming out for the first time since it happened and at the end you're like i i still sort of don't know like you could argue it one way or the other was this because how do you cut your head to the point of like almost total like three quarters the way through your neck with like a tiny knife by yourself and let your head it's like insane there's there's sort of no explanation for it still i'm gonna call i'm gonna call charlie sheen up see if i can come over and watch it in his bedroom sounds good that's what i'm doing All right, brother.

55:52Thanks so much. All right, man. Talk to you soon.

56:00Oh, my God. That was such a fun conversation. It was even better than I thought it would be. How about at the very end? I'm like, oh, by the way, did you work for Penthouse as a fake woman? That was, I'm still agog at that story. And I so want it to be a movie. Oh, boy. Anyway, thanks as always. I hope you had as much fun as I did, as I always do. Be sure and give us the likes and all that crazy stuff that you guys can do out there to build up our little thing here and share it with people. I would love it because I consider us all a family because a lot of y 'all have been listening to this since the jump and I love what we built here together.

56:41So spread the word and I'll see you right here again next week on Literally.

56:51You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Sean Doherty, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar and research by Alyssa Growl. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel. Our executive producers are Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Nick Liao, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson for Stitcher. Booking by Deirdre Dodd. Music by Devin Bryant. Special thanks to Hidden City Studios. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally.