Gwyneth Paltrow: Dangerous and Scintillating (Re-Release)

0:00I knew I would need to bring a sweater because Robbie likes everything so freaking cold. Do I? Yes. You were cold. You know why you're cold? Because you're shredded and ripped and healthy vegan freak. I'm not a vegan. I eat everything. I'm an omnivore. It's not true. It is. I eat everything. It is. Oh, I guess you're right. I started eating red meat, like, again, like a year ago. And I'm into it. I'm very excited that you're cooking tonight for us. I know. You're the best cook. I mean, like, legitimately. First of all, Academy Award winning actresses should not be able to cook. Why not? They shouldn't.

0:34And that's like mutually exclusive concept. That's reductive. We can be more than one thing, Rob. I haven't met many.

0:52On today's podcast of Literally with Rob Lowe, I have one of my oldest pals in show business. One of my closest friends to this day, who usually is occupying a guest bedroom in our house, Academy Award winning actress and philanthropist and business tycoon and hilarious person, great mother, Gwyneth Paltrow. I do love cooking. I find it relaxes me. It's creative output. But it's – How do you make the food look so good, though? Because, like, it's yummy, yum, yummy, but it also looks like it's been doctored by those people on the set that put glycerin on it with an eyedropper. I don't know. I don't – all I care about is how it tastes.

1:43But I try to make it look appetizing, obviously. But I think if you're using good quality ingredients and you care about what you're doing, it always looks good in the end. You know what I mean? That's the theory of like when you cook it for yourself, it always tastes better because you put love into it. Yeah, I think that's true. How long have I known you? I met you. I want to hear your side of it, break you at my side. Okay. So I met Cheryl before I met you. I met Cheryl when I was. My wife, Cheryl. I met the Mrs. Lowe when I was 15 or 16. She was a makeup artist at the time doing a certain Blythe Danner's makeup.

2:24The best. My mother. I have my own Blythe thing, which we also need to get to. So she was doing my mom's makeup on this TV movie, and I went down to visit. Was it in Florida? It was in Florida. And I met Cheryl, and I was immediately obsessed with her. First of all, she was dating Keanu Reeves, who was my celebrity crush. And she was so cool. And she knew that I was sneaking cigarettes and she would come smoke with me behind the trailer. And she taught me how to give a blowjob and, you know, all the classic Cheryl stuff. And I just worshipped her. I thought she was literally the coolest chick of all time.

3:12And she was so awesome to me. And I was a high school kid. Like the fact that she's loved me that much before I was anyone or anything, you know, same with you. Yeah. So then it didn't work out with her and Keanu. I don't know if you're aware. I am aware. Okay. So sadly for me. I am aware that I did best him in one regard. Well. At least one regard. At least one. At least one. He's pretty awesome though. Yes. He's pretty. He's done okay for himself, that kid. And he's still a celebrity crush, let's face it. Yeah, he's 50-something. He's gorgeous. Killing it. I'm obsessed with his girlfriend. Anyway, he has great taste in women.

3:56Yeah, he does. Amazing taste in women. Anyway, so then Cheryl started dating an actor named Rob Lowe, which was very exciting. because, you know, Rob Lowe in the 90s was a dangerous and scintillating proposition. So. Even if I'm purely domesticated and in the aughts, whatever we're in now. Right. Now you're domesticated. Back then it was another story. Yes, it was. Oh, wasn't it though? Do you miss those days of just flinging your D all over town?

4:37um here's the good news my family doesn't listen or care about anything any content i produce perfect so i can say yes i mean i miss it and my wife's not gonna say shit because she she i could i could do 300 hours of podcasts and you know how many hours will she listen to she won't but she'll tell you she did yes 100 so this is a this is a free fire zone yeah So anyway, then she had started, she was dating you, which was fantastic. And then I was like staying with you guys for a while. I was staying with her for a while. I was staying with her for a while and you guys were dating. And you made me really nervous because you were, I was still like nervous of celebrities.

5:21And even though I'd grown up with my mom's friends who were celebrities or something more, like they were like old people, you know, but you were Rob Lowe. It was very unnerving. But can you imagine? So I've known you, I think, since I'm 17 or 18. Since you're 16 or 17. Because I remember that you, when Cheryl moved in with me to my Miami Vice bachelor. Oh, my God. Do you remember my Miami Vice bachelor pad? Yes, I slept there multiple times. Yeah, that you moved into the guest bedroom. Yes. And I remember you were either going to UCSB or... It was before that. Jesus Christ. It was before that.

6:00And it was such a bad, it was like a spaceship on the side of a hill. It was literally designed. Let's tell you all you need to know. When the realtor took me to look at the house, I bought it because it was 12 minutes away from the Hard Rock Cafe. I don't think you should admit that. I know, it's really bad. By the way, the notion that the Hard Rock Cafe is so bad. But was it ever a cool place to go? It was un. Wow. But it would be like today if that were like Leo and, you know, Timberley Chalamet. And Billie Eilish. Right. We're getting French fries. That is so classic. I mean, L.A. during that time.

6:45It was pretty cool. I mean, it was, I wasn't inside Hollywood yet. I was trying, you know, I was going to go to college and then I was going to try to act, I guess. But it was so cool to be getting toed around town with you guys. I remember one time you took me to this place for brunch. Was it called Butterfield or something? Yes. Remember that? Yes. And there were so many celebrities in there eating brunch. And I couldn't believe it. It was just, I think Billy Idol was in there eating. I think you're right. I remember Butterfield. I remember you had to walk down all these stairs. It was like a garden below Sunset Boulevard.

7:22And like one of the Guns and Roses, I think, were in there. It was very, it was just, it was cool. It was very 90s. Because you were, like you and your parents lived a really normal life, even though you're, both of your parents are show business icons. You were like, well, very well brought up, very well educated, very normal. Both, I was blessed to know your dad and love, you know. So my Blythe, sideline Blythe Danner story, is I was obsessed with Blythe when I was, she might have been my first crush. You know, we've talked about this. Of course. When she was in Future World. Which she doesn't like when I bring that credit up.

8:02Do you notice that? Oh, that's a terrible movie. It was much, it was a terrible sequel. Why did he, oh God. I want you to do, can you do the whole interview as Blythe Danner? It would be so good. It was total, oh Rod, it was terrible. but I um she's so cute she's so cute I had a book of a the book version of the script a future world and had a beautiful picture of Blythe in it and I thought she was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen um and so but and then your father um Bruce that's how Cheryl knows because she my my wife Cheryl worked for Bruce that came after home fires yes home fires came after so this is what people don't realize how far we go back.

8:46So far back. I mean, way, way back. Like I was in high school or just finishing high school when I met you. And I knew I met Cheryl when I was like in 10th grade, like Apple's age. I met her. Apple's age. Yes. Okay. I mean, I've known her forever. That makes you feel like an ancient person. You are. Well, I know, but I don't look it, do it. Tell me, I'm very interested in what lesson, what Cheryl's expertise was in the blowjobs. Gosh, I can't remember exactly. Oh, who are you kidding? No, I can't. I just remember it was, it was, it was less about remembering the technique, although I'm sure that I implemented it immediately, the first chance I got.

9:29Yes, I'm sure. But she was just, it was so cool to have someone treat me like an adult and see me as like a young woman and someone who was sexual. And she just made me feel so free. And, you know, as you said, I did have a very normal, you know, even though I came from people who worked in show business, I had a very, you know, like a non-Hollywood. Very stable, structured, regular. Yeah, for sure. And, And, you know, it was like pretty, not conservative politically, but just, you know, it was like a lot was expected of me. I had to study really hard. It was like I had, you know. So, and the gender roles were pretty defined.

10:13And, you know, my mother was. She's very prim. She's. Wouldn't you say, is it? I wouldn't say prim. I think she's just traditional and sort of, you know, she's like. And of that era, right? Like, we didn't talk about stuff like that. So for Cheryl to be like, okay, and then hold the balls and whatever. And I was like, what is happening? What is happening? She hasn't changed a bit. I know. Listen, let's face it. I did a lot of research when I was looking for a wife. Oh, really? We didn't know that, Rob. And we've been married 29 years. I know. And it's because I've never met anybody like her. I've never met anyone.

10:56And it's funny. I sat in Cheryl's makeup chair just as an actor and she was my makeup artist and that was it. And the way that she spoke to me and the way she valued me as a person. Yeah. And saw me as a person. Right. Was different than anybody ever. Yeah. And it's. It's an amazing. It's a beautiful quality. And she's so loving. And she's such a caretaker. And she's like such an amazing like Jewish mom. and it's all the food and the comfort and everything. But then there's this just wild side to her that's so fun to this day. Because I would never survive somebody boring. No, I know. If I wasn't with somebody, and I say this with all love, a little crazy, maybe more than a little, I would run roughshod.

11:45Yeah, no. She keeps you on your toes. I think you guys have an amazing marriage and like obviously, you know, I've known you guys for a long time and seen it through many chapters And it's just so inspiring to see you both continue to make the commitment to grow together and like to keep finding honesty and new levels of authenticity and commitment and what that looks like over different decades. And I don't know. I think you guys are rad. Well, thank you. I mean, it's I think it's important in in life and in marriages to have friends that you can count on. Yeah. And that you can also see through the – I mean, and the same.

12:27I've seen you through so many chapters in your life. Beyond. I mean, beyond. It's crazy. I mean, you could write a book. I know. I'll leave that to you. Yeah. My secrets are too explosive. They're too good. They're so good. We bury them to the – We bury them. The barriers are the deepest. But even little things like your dad, I remember when you were nominated for Shakespeare. and remember when they used to have those crazy Miramax parties and everybody had to do charades oh yeah no those weren't the Miramax parties those were like you would like actors it was it was actually sweet it was like actors who had won in previous years would sort of like host game nights for people it was like remember yeah it was a bit it was a thing it was a thing we would have these these big nights and I remember running into your dad at one at the one that was sort of done in honor of that helen hunt threw for me that's right yeah and i think i'm matthew my oldest must have been about five or six and i must have known where the road would lead with the boys because i said what advice do you have for me because gwyneth has turned out so great you know for my for raising my kids like what like what if they want to be actors and i'll never forget i call it the bruce paltrow rule which is you know they can they can say they want to act all they want they're not doing shit until they're 18.

13:50Yeah. You wanted, but you wanted, you wanted to, and he just threw the hammer down. I wanted to so badly, so badly. And, and people would, you know, casting directors sometimes came up to me in New York, not knowing who my parents were, you know, asking me to audition for this or, and, um, I always wanted to, but my parents refused to let me into the public eye. And then finally, when I was 18, I just kind of, Oh, it was a frenzy. I remember it. I remember it was like, it would, the only thing I can think of, it would be like the NFL draft. And people were just in a fucking, you know, Gwyneth Paltrow's being drafted first.

14:28Oh my God. People were trading up to get Gwyneth Paltrow. Oh my God. It was in like all the agents you were meeting with, everybody knew. Like it was, like the fix was so in. But it's weird, you know, because it's like, I don't know how I feel about it. Ultimately, that sort of advantage that, you know, kids, it's like we get doors open for us because of who our parents are, like your sons do or my children would. And so that's why I think it's so important, you know, as you say, to raise a kid that has a work ethic and whose values are, you know, they're aligned with yours or with their own sense of who they are, et cetera.

15:11So that, you know, because the truth of the matter is like the doors can be opened for you. But if you think about all the people who try and it doesn't happen. Yes. And that's what I mean. When I say the fix is in, it wasn't that people knew you were going to succeed because of where you came from. They knew you had the goods. Well, thanks. And you had it from the first, what was the first great movie, that weird Western with - Oh, yeah. Flesh and Bone. Flesh and Bone. I was a really, I love that movie. You're great in it. It's a great movie. It is a really good movie. It's a weird slow burner, but I love it.

15:47Such a good movie. Really good movie. But I was like, oh, yeah, she's going to be fine. She doesn't need to stay in my guest room anymore. I still do, but. You're doing it right now. Nothing has changed. I've never left my guest room. You're literally back in my guest bedroom. I've never left. Hold the thought. We'll be right back.

16:14So now, what do you do with your incredible kids? who are incredible. Thank you. And they always have. And again, like you, always have been. Like you look at. They're good kids. Well, there's two things. They're good kids. And these are, and they're also like, they have it. I mean, Moses, like charismatic, such a, like his energy of like love and like, you just want to, I just want to. I know. I like to eat them. I know. I know. It's really unbelievable. And Apple, I mean, that charisma, if we could harness it, could power a large city. What are you going to do with that one? Oh. You got your hands full for a friend.

17:04I mean, what's the Bruce Paltrow rule look like for Apple? Yeah. I mean, again, you know, I won't let them, you know, be public on any social media or anything like that. I try to keep them out of the public eye as much as possible. You know, now it's different because kids are like, can I have a YouTube channel? I want to, and I'm like, no, you can't. No, absolutely not. But everybody else, I'm like, you're not, you know, you have this other layer and they understand. But I think it's really been interesting to be her mother because as she's come into her own, it's almost like, you know, it's like watching her harness her own power with every passing year.

17:46And I'm just like, what is this child here to do? You know, she's so bright and so funny. And so. She's hilarious. She's hilarious. And Moses is so unique and so deep and like such an old soul and also really talented, like scarily talented. And so you start as a parent, you think, all I can do for these kids is teach them right from wrong and teach them what work is. And how do you go about doing that? Because I do find we're both blessed with kids who have work ethic and understand work and want to work and aren't entitled. Look, they've grown up with everything in abundance and they are entitled, but they don't feel entitled, if that makes any sense.

18:40Yeah. I mean, I think, first of all, you model it, right? Like, you are an incredibly hard worker. So is Cheryl. Yes. Cheryl doesn't have to bust her ass 24-7 on her jewelry business, but she does. So the boys have grown up with two parents who have modeled what it means to work and what work looks like and trying to do both things at the same time. And I think when you work hard and they see that and you value your work, they fuse those things and they understand that work brings value to someone's life and sense of self. And, you know, my kids work hard. I think they see their parents working hard, working hard to achieve something.

19:20And so I think that's the first part of it. You know, we model it. Right. And then you make them work for stuff. You know, I don't, I really have tried not to just hand them things. which, you know, a lot of people do and no judgment, but, you know, my father always made me have a job after school until I was in 11th grade. Cause then there's too much homework and SAT practice and whatever. And Apple has a job. She works in retail, not currently because stores obviously are closed, but she came to me one day and she was like, I really want to get a job at this store. And I was like, great. perfect okay i'm i'm totally supportive and then i didn't hear anything about it for a while i was like do you need help and you know in any way she was like no and then a few weeks later she came to me she's like i got the job please sign my w-2 please sign you know permission because i'm not it was unbelievable my god and she she that's who she is so i don't know she's a self-starter She's a self-starter.

20:25She really is. So, you know, I don't know. I also think that with kids, like, I read this quote once from, I think it was from Banksy that said, a parent will do absolutely anything for their child except let them be exactly who they are. It's so true. Like we come at our kids with so much projection and, oh God, if they're not like this, then it says this about me. Or I'm so worried if they don't do that, then they're going to experience the pain of life. And I've tried to adopt this thinking around it that's like, it's okay if you get hurt. It's okay if you fail. Like I think our generation of parents got this memo.

21:13I was reading this woman, Glennon Doyle's book. It's called Untamed. And she said our generation of parents got this memo that like, we're going to keep you from everything. We're going to do everything we can, you know, to make sure you never feel an ounce of pain or left out. Or, you know, when the teacher calls us and says, you know, you've done something wrong, we're going to get in the teacher's face and say, I don't think you know my child. And, you know, basically that our philosophy is don't let them get hurt. And I don't know exactly what it's in reaction to. Like, I don't know what, how we were parented or how, you know, how it all comes together, but it really struck a nerve with me because I think we have to let our children experience life.

21:55And, you know, life is like the first rule of Buddhism says suffering. Like we suffer here. It's really hard and it's part of it. And we want our children to know who they are, to have good manners and to have resilience. Right. So that's what I try to do. Well, and I think that we come at, and I agree. It's the same. We come at that. I think the other part is, and I'm not saying anything about your parents, just from mine. I think that generation had a level of narcissism that we don't have. Like, my parents were very, very self-involved. And I felt really, really, really on my own. Yeah. Yeah.

22:41I mean, that's funny because that's what Glennon says is that our parents' generation were like their memo was. Yeah. What was their memo? She says is like, OK, we're home from the hospital. You look after yourself. I'm going to smoke and talk to the other adults and like don't come home till dinner. Yeah. And you're on your own. Like you're on your own, which is also beautiful. Yeah. Like like the days of like running around the yard and then coming home only when the dinner bell rang. Yeah, I know. The stuff my parents used to let me do. Oh, my gosh. Well, when I moved, when I was a young actor and I moved to California from Ohio, I was 12 and we lived out on Point Doom and we figured out that Point Doom in Malibu, the only reason we lived there was my mother was a universal allergic or so she thought.

23:27We don't really know. I think she was just a hypochondriac. And the air quality in Point Doom was supposedly so great. That's why we moved there. But I would take the bus alone from Point Doom to Santa Monica, get on a different bus, take it from Santa Monica to Beverly Hills, get on a different bus, take it from Beverly Hills to like deep in Hollywood, audition, do my homework repeating back to Point Doom. And like we never thought anything of it. Yeah. I mean, when I was, I moved to New York when I was 11 from Santa Monica and I was out. I mean, I was on multiple subways going downtown to my friend Julia's house, walking the streets, you know, and then you have an 11 year old and you're like, wait a minute, what?

24:15I'm supposed to let you out on the subway alone? Like, this seems nuts, but I actually think there's something to it. It is that weird thing of when you look at your kids and realize what you were doing at that age. I know. It's shocking. I read this article maybe six or eight months ago that there was a brother and a sister, maybe I want to say five and seven, who lived somewhere in the Midwest and they walked to school every day. It was like half a mile walk. And people kept calling child services because they saw these kids alone walk. I mean, that's where we are. That's where we are. That's so insane.

24:53Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you know, the other thing about you, this could turn into the gooiest love fest ever. Oh, God. I love you too, though. Imaginable. But you 100 % are the pioneer of, and I don't want to use this word I'm about to use because it's so icky. Vagina eggs? Well, there's that, which that's a whole other second podcast. You thought you were getting out of this without telling me about vagina eggs. You don't know me very well. Um, it's not reinvention, but, but branding is gross. I hate that word. Why? It's okay. It's okay. Yeah. Okay. Then I'm gonna say it. But I mean, I remember when you were starting Goop and when you were, like I said, I've been, we've been through it all together, but I don't think anyone has any idea how hard you have worked and work.

25:44There's no way they do. No fucking way do they know. I think probably the only people who would know are other entrepreneurs who've started companies and go through the same kind of thing? There have always been people starting companies, but there were not people in your position who went, oh, not only am I going to be an Academy Award winning actress, but I have this other thing that I'm going to do. Now it's almost, you almost have to do that. And it's all good. You've been a trailblazer and enabled people and shined a light so people can go, hey, there are other opportunities if you're interested and you feel like you have the goods, but before you.

26:24Well, I feel like there were some people who had, you know, shown interest in other things and, you know, other actors who were entrepreneurial, but I think I, I really didn't want, you know, I didn't want to act really, you know, you know me. I mean, I've never really, I never really felt like it was at a certain point, you know, I do believe that we have chapters and we live chapters of our lives. And there was a period of time where acting was what I did and what I loved for part of it, certainly. But after I had Apple, and we were just talking about this upstairs, but I really felt like I got in touch with some other calling that I had.

27:06And I always loved business and I was always fascinated by it and always reading about it. And, um, and I didn't know when I started Goop that it was, I would ever be able to figure out how to monetize it or that I would ever even be able to hire somebody to, you know, one person to work on it with me, let alone 250 people. Um, and it's been the most incredible experience. I love it so much. It is so hard and so incredibly educational and expansive. And I have to be so, I have to, I start every day almost at square one, you know, just with the mindset of learning and I just love it. It's, it's the best, it's the most exhilarating time professionally I've ever had.

27:57Do you feel like, um, on any given day I've done it or do you like, how do you know, but I, on, On certain given days, I'm like, I can't fucking do this anymore. Like, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm going to fail. This is way too hard. I don't know what I've gotten myself into. You do have those feelings. Yeah, sure. And then I have days where I'm like, oh, this feels like maybe I'm figuring this out. Maybe I've cracked this. You know, it's like you ricochet from one. It's like a pet, you know. I think that's so important for me to hear, for people to hear, because you always compare, like they say in AA, you always compare your insides to somebody else's outsides.

28:45So it's like, you know, one could easily think, I mean, goop is this sort of iconic thing that you could be like, yeah, man, I did it and it's great. But the truth of it is there are days where you work up and go, man, I've bitten off a lot. I don't know. I don't know what tomorrow is going to bring. Oh, my God. it's it's crazy and you the bigger it gets did you feel more pressure yes yeah the more money you raise the more people you hire you know you're responsible was it the first money raise frightening or did you feel good because i didn't know what i was doing you know yes i i was like okay i guess you know we need to raise some money and somebody else was helping me figure out what that meant.