In short
Ice-T and Rob Lowe discuss Ice-T’s career—from early hip-hop “biting”/sampling history to acting and TV work—plus live performance, heavy metal with Body Count, and Ice-T’s new co-written memoir Split Decision. The episode also includes multiple sponsor segments (eczema drug Ebglyss/EPCLIS, Quince, Ernesta, Glow Gummies, etc.).
Guests
Ice-T (rapper/actor; founded/led Body Count; long-running role on Law & Order: SVU) and Rob Lowe (actor/TV host). Kelly Rowland appears only as a sponsor voiceover.
Guest backgrounds
Ice-T grew up in Crenshaw High School/Los Angeles gang context; became a hip-hop pioneer (Rapper’s Delight era) and later an episodic TV actor; performs rap and heavy metal. Rob Lowe is a mainstream actor/TV figure who discusses film/TV production logistics.
Key claims
Hip-hop terms and practices (breakdance from “breaks,” “hip hop” from Keith Cowboy) and “biting”/plagiarism in Rapper’s Delight; sampling requires payment and can lead to court. Ice-T credits Dick Wolf’s TV system and his SVU success; Mariska Hargitay’s long tenure. Split Decision is a cautionary tale of crime choices leading to prison and redemption.
Notable examples
1992 LA gang truce enabling color coordination; Ice-T’s “Hustler Toast” rhyme; Big Bang Hank and Grandmaster Kaz “biting”; Fab Five Freddy sample reference; Albert Pugh “shoot only the star” technique; Ice-T’s SVU casting and “blood sugar” note; jewelry-store robbery in San Diego leading to 35-to-life for Spike.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOIce-T's Iconic Presence
0:00 to 0:51
Ice-T discusses his background and the significance of fashion in hip-hop.
“You may not know this, but I have eczema, so I get how it can steal your time.”
Ice-T's Iconic Presence
1:54 to 3:00
Ice-T discusses his background and the significance of fashion in hip-hop.
“We've done 100 plus episodes of this show.”
Navigating Gang Culture
3:00 to 4:26
Ice-T shares insights on LA gang culture and his approach to avoiding gang affiliations.
“Hip-hop, we're the reason they started making different color baseball cats because they realized that we didn't care what team it was.”
The Evolution of Colors in Hip-Hop
4:26 to 5:51
Discussion about how hip-hop artists began wearing team colors and its implications.
“You were there at the very, very beginning.”
Early Hip-Hop and Breakdancing
5:51 to 7:48
Ice-T recounts the origins of breakdancing and the dynamics of early hip-hop culture.
“Whenever I think of Cube, I think of him in that black hat.”
The Birth of Hip-Hop
7:48 to 11:12
Exploration of how hip-hop emerged as a cultural force and its components.
“you when you rap in real life, you have to lock it into the beat.”
Rapper's Delight and Plagiarism
11:12 to 12:46
Discussion about the significance of 'Rapper's Delight' and issues of plagiarism.
“I learned exactly where the term breakdance comes from.”
Famous Samples in Hip-Hop
12:46 to 14:00
Ice-T reflects on iconic samples in hip-hop and their importance.
“Probably Fab Five Freddy from a Deborah Harry record, where at the end he said, this cut is fresh.”
The Art of Sampling in Hip Hop
14:00 to 18:47
Learn about the intricacies of sampling in hip hop music and its legal implications.
“That beat has been used thousands and thousands of times, but it comes from a song called Substitution.”
The Art of Sampling in Hip Hop
18:51 to 19:57
Learn about the intricacies of sampling in hip hop music and its legal implications.
“Now available in Canada and the UK, too.”
Show all 21 chapters
Behind the Scenes of 'Crazy Six'
20:38 to 28:00
Hear about the unique filming experience and challenges faced while making 'Crazy Six'.
“So, by the way, this is the first time we've ever met.”
Experiences in Eastern Europe After the Wall
28:00 to 29:15
Ice-T shares his brother's experiences filming in Eastern Europe and the cultural context post-Berlin Wall.
“They flew over there to shoot the movie.”
Ice-T's Introduction to Dick Wolf
29:16 to 30:28
Ice-T discusses his journey into television and his first interactions with Dick Wolf.
“So how did how did you end up in the Dick Wolf world?”
Negotiating With Dick Wolf
30:29 to 34:25
Ice-T shares anecdotes about negotiating his role and experiences on early TV shows.
“I think I just finished the movie with Keanu Reeves.”
The Ratings Game in Television
34:26 to 35:41
Discussion on how TV ratings have changed over the years and Ice-T's experiences with his shows.
“That's like the Super Bowl or some shit now.”
Creating Bonds on Set
35:42 to 38:25
Ice-T discusses the importance of camaraderie and teamwork on long-running shows like SVU.
“So when I leave that show, Dick Wolf says to me, I wish I had a stronger vehicle for you because I love your work ethic.”
Creating Bonds on Set
39:43 to 41:24
Ice-T discusses the importance of camaraderie and teamwork on long-running shows like SVU.
“They don't think you're bombing because I'm not taking motherfuckers after lunch and all that old extra shit.”
Ice-T on Acting and Success
42:00 to 45:05
Ice-T discusses his approach to acting, memorable lines, and the dynamics of working on long-running shows.
“Because a lot of new actors, they get on there, they're eager.”
The Thrill of Live Performance
45:05 to 47:13
Ice-T shares the unique energy of live performances compared to television and movies.
“So, yeah, I mean, if we – we're picked up for this season, 24.”
Writing 'Split Decision' and Life Choices
47:13 to 53:24
Ice-T talks about his new book, detailing his past choices and the importance of decision-making.
“Like if you don't like the rap, but you like Law and Order or you don't like Law and Order, but you like because at the end of the day, you like a part of me.”
Rob Lowe's Dream Collaborations
56:00 to 57:10
Rob Lowe shares his aspirations to work with various renowned directors and actors.
“And Taylor Sheridan obviously made Wind River and then went out and created a little show that nobody's ever heard of called Yellowstone, which I love.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:01Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema, so I get how it can steal your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about ebglyss? Ebglyss, Lubrikizumab LBKZ, a 250 mg per 2 ml injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kg with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EbbGliss can be used with or without topical corticosteroids.
0:34Don't use if you are allergic to EbbGliss. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EbbGliss. Before starting EbbGliss, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Paid partnership with Lilly. Respect your time. Ask Talk your doctor about EPCLIS and visit EPCLIS.com or call 1-800-LILLY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. Grainger knows if you're a procurement manager at an industrial manufacturing facility, you're balancing inventory and budget while sourcing critical supplies across the operation.
1:10Too much inventory? Costs climb. Too little? Production slows. Grainger's$2 billion in odd hand inventory helps you get what you need when you need it. so you can help keep budgets balanced and lines moving. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done. Ice. Hey, I'm so glad to see you. I'm glad you're here. Rob Lowe, man. Come on, man. You're a legend.
1:51Hey, it's Rob Loeb, everybody. It's literally. Do I sound serious? Because I am. We've done 100 plus episodes of this show. This interview might be, and I know I've said it before, but I've been lucky. We've done a lot of really great interviews. We have. This one, though, bro, sis, sit the fuck down. By the way, I said that word because you're going to hear a lot of it. If that's an issue for you, and I know it is for some people, I don't know what to say. But you don't tell Ice-T how to talk. He is the man. And without further ado, the iconic, legendary Ice-T.
2:41I totally respect all the work you've done in your life, man. I'm a real fan, so I'm happy. I was like, I'm on my vacation, and they're like, yo, we're going to do a podcast. I'm like, eh. They said Rob Lowe. I'm like, what? Let's go. I love that. And I love you wearing a red L.A. Dodger hat. I'm a big Dodger fan. I represent. I love the red, though. That's very cool. I've got to get one of those. Well, you know what? Hip-hop, we're the reason they started making different color baseball cats because they realized that we didn't care what team it was. We're matching colors. We don't care. So we have to be color coordinated.
3:19You understand what I'm saying? That's right. So I might – we got some yellow on. I might need a yellow Yankees hat or a yellow L.A. hat. So, you know, the sports companies got on top of that. Now you can get them in every color, you know what I'm saying, all black, all white to go with your fashion. And you were always – you were like a – talk about OG. You were the OG of matching the colors. Well, I had to because, you know, in L.A., the gang situation is dead serious. People that aren't from L.A. and don't have any understanding about it don't understand it. But, yeah, it was when I was growing up, you could really get hurt, you know.
3:54And instead of just being it, I never was in a gang. But I come from Crenshaw High School, which is rolling 60s hood. And to join that gang, you immediately turn the whole rest of the city into your enemy. So I was smart enough to say, you know what, I'm going to put the whole West Coast on my back. I'm going to represent the West Coast. No particular gang. So in some of my photo shoots, I would wear red. Some of them I would wear black. Some of them I would wear blue. But I could do that because I wasn't in the gang. So it was a smart move, a career decision. Yeah, a career and life decision.
4:28Absolutely. But how did you pull that off? Particularly, you were slightly ahead. You were there at the very, very beginning. But we all know the stories of what was going on with some of the other artists and the pressure was serious. So how do you think you navigated when other guys didn't? Well, no one really wore colors prior to 92. In 92, there was a gang truce in Los Angeles between Imperial Courts, what they call P.J. Watts and the Bounty Hunters, and that kind of spread across Los Angeles. And then after that, you saw Snoop wearing blue. You saw different people wearing blue. But up to that point, it wasn't safe.
5:09And nobody was really doing it. If you go pre-92, you won't see colors. So everybody was kind of neutral. We wore black a lot. We used to wear the Padres with the P because they had a black hat. This was before the baseball caps started making different colors. So we either wore Raiders hats or we would wear the – who wears the P? Public Enemy. Was it the Pirates? Pirates, yes. And those were just naturally black hats. That's right. And it was funny, though, because me and Cube and everybody, we wore black. And then we found out there's a gang in Compton called Santana Block that wears black. So we were we didn't know we were still repping the set.
5:50No, it's funny. Whenever I think of Cube, I think of him in that black hat. Like that's the image I have in my mind. Also, we were L.A. had the Raiders. You know, a lot of times people ask me, they say, are you a Raiders fan? I'm like, I'm an L.A. Raiders fan. You know, there's a difference. The Raiders moved around a lot. So, yeah, we put them on the map, too, in a real way. Yeah, I can imagine that. When you were, I was reading some of the background on you, which was super interesting. But I love the notion of you in the Army performing your own raps over Rapper's Delight instrumental. That's got to be genius.
6:28Were you freestyling? Did you write stuff? Do you remember any of it? Well, when I was in high school, I used to write rhymes, what they call Hustler Toast. that was it was pre-rap so i could i wrote all these different rhymes uh for the gangs uh i i figured out early in my career that if i could entertain these gangbangers i didn't necessarily have to do some of the dirt they was doing so i was a dancer i would tell jokes i was a funny cat and they liked me and i would say these particular rhymes just to them like you want to hear one yeah hell yeah that's why i asked man let's hear it this is a gangbanger rhyme it goes uh so we pulled out the Roscoe.
7:07Roscoe said crack. I looked again, motherfucker was shooting back. So we walked over to him, took his gun, spit in his face, and began to run. So now, that's about as negative as you can get. But it's something that the gangs liked. So when I would do that, the gang bangers say, put my name in it, so they liked that shit. And I was like, yo, okay, I'll make these rhymes for these these cats and stay on their good side. And then when Rapper's Delight came out, I was like, I can do that because I'm already doing it. But I had to start writing rhymes and then syncopating it over the beat because when you when you rap in real life, you have to lock it into the beat.
7:51So it took a minute. Let me ask you this. As a white kid growing up in suburban, you know, as you can picture a white kid growing up, when I heard Rapper's Delight, I was like, oh, yes. Oh, yes. So that's for sure the first crossover, right? Absolutely. See, first generation of hip hop is unrecorded hip hop. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. It would be Grandmaster Flash and them in the parks doing it on cassette tapes before they were making records. Then there were a few small, small records, but Rapper's Delight was the first national hip hop hit. and hip-hop is a very intoxicating culture because it incorporates four things it incorporates break dancing which street dancing has been all over the world forever so people like wow i love that kind of dancing djing they just took djing to another level graffiti which a lot of kids would artists and emceeing or rapping and the rapper came from the dj being so good because what happened with hip-hop the dj found out that the best part of the record was the breakdown where the rec says get down and then there's no words and the best part that on any record when the break comes that's when you throw your best moves you know hell yeah so the djs figured out why play the rest of the record just played the breakdown just play only the breaks and then kids danced off of that they were called break dancers because they danced off of the breaks of records and now you have an instrumental that's where break dancers come from because they dance to the breaks of records all right now in order to play only the breaks you got to be a good dj because you got to catch it.
9:41So you use a mixer and you only play that part. So now what you've created is an instrumental record. Well, the MC, the master of ceremonies job is to talk about the DJ. Hey, you know, my DJ's doing this, that, that. That's why all early rap groups start with the DJ name, Grandmaster Flags, Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince, Jam Master Jay and Run DMC. The DJ is the core of hip hop. So now the rapper or the emcee, Master of Ceremony, starts off talking about the DJ, but then he starts to seal the show. Yeah, well, he's good, but I'm great. And I'm this and I'm that. And I got a mansion and a yacht. Now, we're living in the projects, right?
10:24But we're lying. Da, da, da, da, da. The next crew that got up and you're the DJ, your job is to say, they were good, but we're better. And I'm fire and I'm nicer and I'm this, that, and the other. And that's where battling came in. Our dancers are better than your dancers. Our graffiti artists are better than your graffiti artists. Hence, hip hop, by its nature, is part sport. It's part competition who's better because that was neighborhoods. But it was input into the South Bronx as a deterrent to gangs because they were like, look, ain't no girls coming to these parties if we keep acting up.
11:03So we're going to create this culture that's peace, love, unity, and having fun. And that's where the origin of hip hop comes from in about five minutes. That was amazing. I learned exactly where the term breakdance comes from. What about the term hip hop? Why is that genre called that? There was an emcee named Keith Cowboy, and he would say it in the breaks between his raps. So you'd write a rap, and then in the middle, you're hip, you're hopping, you don't stop, rock, rock. That's when you're getting ready to set up the next rhyme, you know, and you don't stop to keep on to the break of dawn.
11:42Well, I'm this and that. And then when you finish with that rhyme, you hit your hip, your hop. And so I think Bambaataa and them tagged that term. Oh, OK. Then they then they just lifted it for rappers. Well, Rapper's Delight, you got to remember that was done by Sugar Hill. Now, there's a very famous plagiarism that goes on in Rapper's Delight by Big Bang Hank. And everybody deep in hip-hop knows Big Bang Hank was a security guard at a club. And he got picked up to be in the Sugar Hill Gang. Well, there was another great rapper named Grandmaster Kaz for the Cold Crush Brothers, one of the most legendary rappers of all time.
12:22he took Grandmaster Kaz and said his rhyme in Rapper's Delight he spells out Kaz's name he says I'm the C-A-S-N-O-V-A that's Grandmaster Casanova and the rest is F-L-Y so he's saying he not only ripped off his rap he ripped off his neck and yeah and Kaz never got any money from that but he said all of Grandmaster Kaz's rhymes in hip hop that's called biting yeah that's biting so you know that's legendary but now at the end of the day now grandmaster cas is getting his flowers he was the star of my movie the art of rap and he's going on now he's on sirius xm and he's doing all kinds of things with a and e because we we recognize him as being one of the forefathers of hip-hop do you if you had to pick the most famous sample of all time Is there one or are there just too many great ones?
13:20Probably Fab Five Freddy from a Deborah Harry record, where at the end he said, this cut is fresh. And that fresh is the record they... It's a word he's saying, fresh. And it's used in Grandmaster DST's record, Rocket. And you hear this fresh, fresh, fresh. That word is used way more over. As far as samples... So many great ones. You just have to know which one. You know, if I told you the name of the sample, you may not even know the record. Like there's a beat called Substitution. And it was a small record, a break beat. But it's the beat that goes.
14:09That beat has been used thousands and thousands of times, but it comes from a song called Substitution. And you got to remember, Rob, early hip hop didn't have drum machines. So the only way they could make records was take pieces of other records. Steve Miller Band. Well, of course, Aerosmith's Walk This Way. So the key to the DJ, if you're a DJ, is you're trying to find these breaks. Then they would actually cover up the names on the label so other DJs wouldn't know what they're playing. Oh, wow. I used to rap off, I think it's one of the Black Sabbath records. I don't know if it's Wicked World, but the song goes, Don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don.
14:59And then, you know that song? And then it got a break. Don, don, don, don, don.
15:07Now, DJs would spend hours listening to records, needle dropping for these oh whoa whoa whoa whoa what is that horn and they would creatively sample creative sampling you don't even know what record it came from it's done so so precisely yeah but of course sooner or later people just start ripping off the whole record and just rapping over the record that's not is there like you know this as an actor and i want to talk to you about that too but as an actor if you want to ad-lib a song and sing it you get i think four notes before the company has to pay for it. Is there that same scene with sampling?
15:45No. No. No. Sampling, you got to pay. You got to pay no matter what. When we first started, when we first started, we didn't know. A lot of things about hip hop, we're in an unknown area, just like as an actor right now. They didn't plan on streaming. They didn't plan on all these different networks. So how do they pay us? They never even imagined it. so now we have to circle back around and say you guys gotta pay us i can't be on 50 streaming channels and y 'all ain't paying but it never happened so in the same sense but we started sampling we didn't think you know and they're like oh you're stealing the music well i ended up in court quite a few times for sampling um here's the problem with sampling when you sample you're not just taking the beat you're taking the performance so if i sample led zeppelin technically i have led zeppelin playing on my record jesus you follow me now if i if i remake what they did there's a publishing charge but if i take the actual sample i actually got james brown on my record or i have i have them playing on the record and they're two and those are two different rates too by the way one's more expensive than the other right usually when you sample you give them the entire publishing.
17:02Yeah. So what happened is later on, we learned how to just replay the sample. Like if we liked that part of the record, we would replay it. And then it's a much, much lower rate that's publishing. But, you know, you learn the hard way. I got, I was in court for the group war, you know, they sued me and, you know, you got to pay a, a, they say a lesson usually cost you money or pain and sometimes both.
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18:58That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash Rob. Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema. So I get how it can steal your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about EBCLIS? EbGliss, Lubrikizumab, LBKZ, a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema. Also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies, EbGliss can be used with or without topical corticosteroids.
19:39Don't use if you are allergic to EbGliss. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EPCLIS. Before starting EPCLIS, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Paid partnership with Lilly. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about EPCLIS and visit EPCLIS.com or call 1-800-LILLY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. A rug shouldn't just fit your room. It should make your home feel finished. Ernesta creates designer quality rugs custom fit to the exact size of your space, so every room feels beautifully pulled together.
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20:38by the way you know that you and i technically did a movie together that might have been one of those cut and paste movies it was brother we i mean we have to talk about this movie because this is hot hilarious so it's a movie called crazy six and in my filmography it's a little This movie, okay, so it's me, Ice, Burt Reynolds. Yes, yes, I know the movie. It was shot in Bratislava. Yes, in Bratislava. So, okay, so this is the best. So, by the way, this is the first time we've ever met. Meanwhile, we starred in a movie together. We're in scenes in the movie together. So this movie, I get this call.
21:15They're like, they want you to star in this movie. It shoots in Bratislava. and they're going to pay you a fortune for six days. I said, I'm sorry, a movie takes six weeks to shoot. They go, no, no, no, it's six days. So what they did, as you know, is they shoot everything you're in. Everything through the whole movie. They don't shoot anybody else. They don't turn the camera around. They don't shoot any of the other actors. They just shoot you. And that takes six days. it's the whole movie but just you and then they turn around and then they do six days with everybody else and it was this guy who made a a total business out of making these as you said albert pune when you think about it what a genius he was to figure out a way to do that i did a whole movie in one day what i did a movie called mean guns in one day and you know the thing over there is it's like you're an actor but also this is your occupation you know you're making money doing this and people are like oh why'd you do this movie this that and the third and i'm like yo when they hit you with a number your brain says i could sit my ass here home and not make that money or i can go get this money right now and i always thought when i was doing awful movies i'm like maybe this movie would be so awful nobody will ever see it any goddamn way yes that's right You're right.
22:44So I need to go secure this bag because I wasn't sitting on a million billion dollars at that moment. I needed the money. And I tell people I used to do sports car movies. I used to do I used to be looking in the magazine and I like want that new Porsche Turbo. And then somebody would call me up and say, hey, be in this movie. I'm like, all right, here's the deal. Put that car on the lot. I want you to hand me the keys to that car. Right. They'd be like, well, we got to pay taxes. I don't give a fuck. just give me that car and i'll do your movie now yeah clean i want the pink slip yeah and they i'm like you guys pay taxes you cover whatever else has to be done i need that whip and i would show up and do movies for a week and all the movies sucked of course but that's when i was in my prostitution stage in my career and sometimes you got to do that you know and And now, of course, it would take two Porsches.
23:41Yes, that's right. We still have our prices just a little bit higher. But, you know, the other thing about that, it enables you to do the things that you are passionate about. It's like I always tell actors, you've got to live to fight another day. Do you know what I'm saying? Right. I had heard Orson Welles hated acting. He only acted so he could direct. That's right. Well, when I did a lot of my movies, I built a recording studio in my house. I built this big million dollar recording studio in my house which allowed me to do my music so yes I was using this to fund that at that moment Albert Pune I was in a movie with Snoop I did this movie like Mean Guns Christopher Lambert I never met Christopher Lambert Christopher Lambert did all those Albert Punes Christopher Lambert of course is famous for playing the original Tarzan Greystoke the legend of Tarzan and a bunch of great stuff Great actor, great guy.
24:36And he did a thousand Albert Pugh movies. And you know what? I did a documentary on Albert Pugh. Somebody got at me and they wanted me to talk and talk about his procedure and how he worked. Wow. And I have to see this. Yeah. I don't know if it's out yet, but they interviewed me for it. It was pretty interesting. His theory, you know, but I learned a lot from it. Yes. I learned a lot from it. I learned that if you are doing a movie and you need a bigger actor, the object is hold them for the least amount of time. Like don't ask them to be there. People right now ask me to do movies while I'm on Law and Order and they want me for six weeks.
25:15And I'm like, it's impossible. Yeah, it's impossible. I can't I can't give you that much time, but we can shoot you out in a weekend is doable. But they got to learn the Albert Pugh technique. And it is a technique. I mean, it's, I mean, there are fight gunplay sequences in it. Yeah. And literally I never was around any of the other gunmen. It was just, it was insane. Here's my quick Albert Pune story that you'll love. So I get the script and the script calls for, they clearly want, look, they called me. They want, they want, you know, me. Right. I had just seen Sling Blade and I was obsessed with Sling Blade.
25:53And I was like, I'm never going to get a chance to do anything like Sling Blade. I just know it. wait a minute i should so i say i'll do this show and it's supposed to be me all coiffed and handsome guy and in a lamborghini and you know you can just imagine i show up with a salt and pepper beard long hair down to my shoulders and playing a character i've decided has had his nuts shut off and and these fucking they did not know what hit them they thought they were getting like GQ man. Right. And I hit him with a character. It was talking like this. Shut off. And looked like like a homeless veteran because my thing was like, OK, I'm going to give them I'm giving them what they want, i.e.
26:43I'm doing the movie. Right. But on the other side of it, I'm going to use this as an exercise to do something I'm never going to get a chance to do in the in the real world. So So when you see Crazy Six and you wonder, what the hell is Rob doing in that movie? That's what I'm doing. Rob was securing the bag with iced tea that day. We were just out there. You know, it was way over. And Bratislava was in the middle of Egypt. That's the other thing. They told me it shot in Prague. This is also my favorite. They told me it shot in Prague. And I was like, great. Prague's one of the most beautiful cities in the world.
27:16Legendary city. Never been to Prague. This is going to be great. I'm in the back of the car being driven from the airport. to the hotel and there's a, like a fork in the road. And it literally says Prague, 20 miles this way, Bratislava, 20 miles that way. The car turns to Bratislava. And that's how I knew I was Bratislava. The only place to eat was the McDonald's. I felt like I was going into one of the hospital movies. You know what I'm saying? It's dark over there. There's no lights. No way. Did you tell him this? Nobody on the, no other people in the movie spoke English. Only us. Like the rest of the background were all Bratislavian people that were grunting the whole movie.
27:59Like no one. There was only the Americans. They flew over there to shoot the movie. No one else. And by the way, the Berlin Wall had only come down about five years beforehand. So it was it was like traveling back into into an East. What was an Eastern Bloc country? And my brother did a movie in Estonia once famously. and they had all of these gigantic crowd scenes at night in the rain and the cold. And people showed up by the thousands. And my brother was horrified to discover that these people were paid. This is what they got. This is just after the Berlin Wall came down. Thousands of people showed up in the night in the rain to work for a raffle ticket that enabled them maybe to win coffee and nuts.
28:50Wow. Yeah. Yeah, we actually toured Eastern Europe a lot with Public Enemy before the wall came down. You have no idea what it's like over there. They didn't have cars. It seemed like you didn't have lights. Great crowds because they were starving for something to do. The people would show up. Like you say, if they show up for coffee and nuts, they definitely are showing up for a concert. Yes. So how did how did you end up in the Dick Wolf world? So Dick Wolf, for those of you who don't know Dick Wolf, you certainly do because he's the man of television. Dick Wolf. I'm surprised you haven't done anything with Dick Wolf.
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29:31Well, how about I'm going to hit you with this. I feel that I am single handedly responsible. Any success that Dick has ever had in television, because Dick, before he was in television, wrote movies. and the last movie he wrote was a movie for mr robbie low called masquerade and the movie did not perform well and dick was like screw it i'm gonna start writing television and he wrote law and order so my thing is if the movie we did together had done well dick might not have ever made billions and billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars i wouldn't have a job so i mean there it is wow that's deep i know he started off as a writer with miami vice and things of that nature and stuff but i didn't know about masquerade that's crazy you've given giving people a list of movies to check out i did masquerade by the way is i'm really proud that's a real it's way ahead of its time by the way super sexy i'm just gonna i'm gonna say it right here remember those days like you don't see anybody doing that anymore yeah that's why you had the rated r you like oh i watched i watched officer and a gentleman the other day right i was like what that wow okay yeah yeah that was those were the day well you know i got in dick wolf world um as the story goes i was uh at my house with uh fab five freddie who i just mentioned with that sample yep and at the time andre harrell rest in peace was part of uh new york undercover yes and he said, I'm over Ice's house.
31:04At this time, I was doing movies. Now, I think I had done... Had you done Trespass yet? I'd done Trespass. I'd done Surviving the Game. I'd done Tank Girl with Lori. Oh my god, Lori Petty! Yes, I did that. I think I just finished the movie with Keanu Reeves. I'd done Johnny Mnemonic. Hardest name to spell in the history of titles. Right. so anyway I'm on my movie shit I'm getting money now and they call me to do television so I told Andre was like tell Ice he needs to do New York undercover I'm like fuck you that's a rip off of New Jack City you know I'm not doing that I'm a movie star right of course so he's like oh come on Ice you too big now stop it man stop it we go back I'm like alright give me a bad guy I'm tired of playing these good guys.
32:00Give me a bad guy and I'll do it. So I come on there to play this character, Danny Up. I did one episode and I get a call and Dick Wolf said, I mean, Peter Jankowski says, they don't want to kill you. I'm like, what's that mean? They want you to do more episodes. I'm like, well, y 'all ain't paying me enough. Right now, there was a salary cap on being a guest star. People don't know that, but there's a cap so that artists can't negotiate. They just say, this is what you get paid. Called Top of the Show. That's what they call it. That's what they call it. And that provides them so they get a bigger star.
32:35You can't negotiate. You can't play the game. Blah. So I'm like, I'm not getting enough, man. I got to go home. I got to get back to what I'm doing. I was also running a record label. And he said, well, what if I perk you? I'm like, how are you going to do that? So they moved me from one hotel to the Four Seasons, put me in a suite, paid for my other partner's room who was there with me, which was costing me an arm and a leg. Because even though you're there, you still have expenses. New York, you got to drive around. You want to go out. You want to eat. After taxes, you're pretty much eating.
33:09All the money you're making, you're spending to do it. Let's say that. So they do that, and they get me for two more episodes. At the end of that, I got called back to do another show we had called Swift Justice. I played a gangster. I got called back to do Law and Order Exile with Chris Knoth, which was a Law and Order movie. I played a pimp. They killed me with a bowling pin. Then I pitched a show to him called Players. So Dick Wolf comes at me, goes, every actor thinks they have their own movie, their own TV show. So I pitched it to him. It's about some kids, some kind of artists that are federal that are stuck in the feds.
33:50and the feds want to use them to take down criminals. The old criminals take down criminals, Gat. He says, oh, that reminds me of A-Team. A-Team saved NBC. Do you mind if I move this around and work with this? I'm like, yeah, sure. You're a writer. Fuck it. About a month later, he called me. He says, I'm with Warren Littlefield. I'm on a plane right now. Your show just got greenlit. You have a TV show. What? Like, what the fuck? So I'm excited. We move on the universal lot. I got a trailer. We're shooting it. the trams coming by rob every day and this is iced teeth trailer i'm like i'm a motherfucking ride i'm like yo i'm in hollywood so the show they put it on at 8 p.m what people don't understand a lot of people don't know at as night as the night goes the shows get more grimy yes 8 p.m is kind of like kid hour they used to literally call it family hour right i was on too early i should have been on nine or ten because they were you know the show so the show went a full season and you know hey dig this the show got canceled and we were getting 14s that's just unbelievable now just for the audience so he's getting a 14 rating they cancel it today my show nine woman Lone Star, one of the biggest hits, dramas on TV, routinely gets a.9, and that's a hit.
35:18You were getting a 14, not a.14, a 14. Seinfeld was getting 20s. That's like the Super Bowl or some shit now. But that was because there wasn't that many channels. That's right. There was no internet. There was no TikTok. There was no gaming. There was nothing else to do. You have three channels, so that's what you did. So we get pulled. Four teens, right? They want six teens, I guess. So when I leave that show, Dick Wolf says to me, I wish I had a stronger vehicle for you because I love your work ethic. I love your honesty. I dig. You know, after five shows, Dick Wolf is like, I get iced tea.
36:04I know what iced tea is about. Yeah. And so I get the call for Law & Order SVU, and I say no. Because first off, SVU wasn't in the top 40 at the time. The first season, they weren't really doing that. Oh, so yeah. So it's been on a season, and then they call you, right? Near the end of the first season. Got it. At this time, I'm doing – I'm trying to create iTunes. if you later on after this Google or anybody listening Google Ice-T invents iTunes on YouTube and you'll see me break down how iTunes is going to be like five years before iTunes came out and the fucking thing it was an Apple show that was interviewing me so of course I probably got a lawsuit there but I broke down the way I thought iTunes was going to happen because I was up on MP3 so I was in my tech world come do Law & Order SVU I'm like I don't even watch that show like what is that about come to New York here we go again it's the same cycle and they're only asking me to come to do four episodes so I'm like I can't leave for four nah my buddy was like well we're really not making any money here at this point it's a startup you like New York go take a vacation Go knock it out.
37:26Dick Wolf always been a solid dude with you. His check's clear. Go. And I went and I did it. And it was the best decision I ever made. When I got there, I immediately connected to Belzer. Belzer was the best person. I loved Mariska. I loved Chris. Everybody was so cool. And here I come, you know. And it was a funny moment when, you know, after three episodes, they tell me, ice. We don't think you're bonding with everybody.
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39:48I don't just meet people and put my arm around them like we're best friends it takes a minute I'ma vibe you out you might be an asshole I don't really know you so I'ma wait and I'ma pick you know I'm not that that's corny somebody oh we're best friends right let it happen you know so they tell me that so I took Chris I took uh Dan Florek I took Mariska I took Belze to the side one day because they give me this note. They don't think you're bombing because I'm not taking motherfuckers after lunch and all that old extra shit. I said, look, you guys, I used to rob banks in real fucking life. All right.
40:22To rob a bank, I don't need to like you. I don't, I just need to know, you know how to drive. You know how to listen to the radio. You know how to control the room. You know how to go in the safe. Guess what? After we robbed a bank, we'll become the best fucking friends in the world. And the more banks we rob, the closer we'll get. So me and Mariska have been robbing the bank for 23 years. She's my fucking best friend in the fucking world. I told Mariska, I got my daughter. I got my wife. But Mariska, I've made more money with you. So you try to say some shit about Mariska, I'll fuck you up. Like, because we have a bond now, because we work together.
41:02Like I tell people, Law & Order SVU is on right now, right this second. It's on. But I might not be on the screen. Kelly might be on the screen. Peter might be on the screen. So they're helping me stay employed. So everyone on this team is working for the same thing. Fuck who's the star? All of us. Now, as a bank robber, Dick Wolf is the boss. He's watching that car and he's making sure everybody's coming out of that bank with the same amount of money or more. And if you're not grabbing as much money, you'll be replaced in that car. And they'll put another robber in. So every time they change the cast, I talk to them.
41:45I say, look, you just got on the show. This show's been on 23 years. This is not a marathon. I got to stop you right there so you understand. 23 years longest running show in history Rob longest running so I come on the last episode of the first season so I kind of can claim the first season yeah yeah for sure you can 100 % but when I tell them that I say you just hit the show you want to act every fucking scene just take it easy they're going to throw you an episode where it's going to be all you and you're going to have to work 15 hour days every day and it's going to bust your ass. But just ride it out.
42:26Because a lot of new actors, they get on there, they're eager. I'm not getting enough lines. I'm like, you know what Belzer taught me? He said, episodic drama. He said, you know what I look for in a script? I'm like, what? He goes, days off.
42:44Because they're paying you per episode. So So if I go on a show and I say, huh, I get the same check as if I act every motherfucking scene. So basically my fans are like, we want you more in the show. I'm like, I'm in enough. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. You know, and when they do throw me the ball. Yeah. I bust my ass and I let you see why I'm on the show. But I don't I'm not sitting in the back saying I wish I had lines like they're not paying me for per word. And I heard that Steve McQueen said that it's not who has the most lines, it's who has the most memorable lines.
43:24That's true. So I live off of that. When I am on screen, I want it to be memorable. And there it is. And you've been doing it. I mean, Mariska, just a funny factoid. My wife, Cheryl, hired Mariska to waitress at Santa Pietro's Pizza Parlor when she was managing it. And Mariska was like the cute waitress. And then, of course, has gone on to be a television. I mean, she's done more television than than anybody ever. She's 23 years and she's works her butt off. She has the record. She has the record because she started ahead of me. She was on that show earlier, but yeah, she's got the longest running actor.
44:07I mean, we say actor and actresses. I still say actress. But she's the longest running actress in television history. And Mariska is a sweetheart. Mariska is a very, very nice, sincere woman who is, I'm very fortunate to work with her. I love people always say, well, how do you do it for so long? I'm like, cause I like the work environment. Everybody's cool. Everybody respects everybody's power. Everybody knows we're all, we're on a team. You know, somebody's the quarterback. Someone's the wide receiver. All of us win the game. That's exactly right. We win the game together. Well, the other thing is at a certain point you want to, you want to continue the legacy and, and the, you know, you, I know you, you're like a competitive guy like me.
44:53It's like, you guys have a street going, you know, You don't want the streak to end. You want to do what you can do to keep that streak going because it's so rare. No one's going to have 23 years doing anything anymore. Well, the record was 21. So, yeah, I mean, if we – we're picked up for this season, 24. It's 22 episodes of the season. Yes. Right? So I got a feeling we could go 24. I mean, look, I think this show can go as long as Mariska wants to do it. For sure. You know, the show is really about strong women. It's a woman's show. I kind of play the background. I back up the women, you know, on the show.
45:31Yeah. But it's her show all day and all night. And when she gets tired of doing it, you know, we'll see what happens. But I'm good with it. I'm happy. You know, say, fortunately, I got other jobs. I'll go on tour. You got your heavy metal. What's the genre you would call it? Heavy metal? Metal, metal. We won, 2021, we won Best Metal Performance on Grammy. I know. So we're hot. I'm working on a new album right now, and I just did a rap concert this week, last weekend on the 2nd. So I got a lot. Which do you like better? Which do you like better, doing the rap hip hop or doing the heavy metal? It's really hard.
46:11I mean, it's live performance, and live performance is nothing. there's nothing like television and movies are great but there's nothing like live performance people that do theater understand that having that immediate response you know when you do a movie you do the movie and then you sit back a month or two or six and then you get a delayed reaction like oh yeah that was good you know or it sucked but right then on the stage you know right then You know, and when you really, you know, like when you're doing Body Count and I'm out there and it's, you know, we're doing these festivals, there's hundreds of thousands of people and you go, hold up, I want a glass of water.
46:51And you just take the glass and you drink it slow and they fucking just sit there and wait on you to finish your water. And you go, yeah, there's nothing like that. There's nothing. There's nothing like that. That electricity comes from live performance. So, of course, I love doing music. Rap and rock both have different energies. But, you know, like me, Rob, as far as what I've done in my career, I don't care if you don't like something I do. Like if you don't like the rap, but you like Law and Order or you don't like Law and Order, but you like because at the end of the day, you like a part of me.
47:26That's it. I mean, some people like it all. Some people, you know, and the ones that don't like any part of me, they can kiss my ass, too, because, you know, thanks for nothing.
47:39i love it i want to who's your just who are your heroes in the in the heavy metal world well of course black sabbath right you know that was like the first metal band i got into i was into rock i got into rock because when i was growing up my cousin thought he was jimmy hendrix and i was sharing a room with him so he kept kmet and klos on the radio yeah so before i knew it i everything from jay giles band mock the hoople edgar winter uh traffic uh all those groups boston elo and i leaned toward blue oyster cult deep purple blacks out the more heavier darker stuff at that time yeah and um you know so that in metal of course of course now i like lamb of god i like um you know of course we body count is part suicidal tendencies oh yeah so we got a lot of punk influences in them of course slayer we remade slayer oh i'm one of the only people to ever do a duet with slayer so you know we i like i like a lot of different stuff i'm influenced by a lot of different stuff now do your two audiences co-mingle like the people who came up with you do they get this new thing yeah well you know it's it's crazy like the cats that are wrapped all i gotta do is take them to one body count show they like yo shit's crazy first are they fighting you know you're looking at the mosh the mosh pit of course yeah but a lot of the white kids of course they were rockers first before they got into hip-hop right so they cross and stuff i mean at the end of the day body count is metal but it's sung through my eyes so it's still very urban it's very aggressive in the same sense it's just using different guitars and the band is all black and we all went to crenshaw high school so we are body count you know we we have a little mixture of everything some points in the record but our fan base is strong so you know with that you know whereas ice tea i'm out there doing frank sinatra i'm playing hits yeah you know i'm playing for my catalog so yeah it's all good man i mean to be able to still do it and still have a fan base is a wonderful thing brother i'm with you so ice as if you didn't have enough to do you've also written a book you got it you got to tell me what that was like for you and what tell me about the book well it's my third book my first book was called the ice opinion who gives a fuck the greatest title ever yeah where i break down all kinds of topics and every chapter just ends with and that's my opinion on education who gives a fuck amazing and um because i think people are too much into their opinions being law fuck that It's just your fucking opinion, and it doesn't matter.
50:25The second opinion is called Ice. I think it's called My Road to Redemption from South Central Los Angeles to Hollywood. And it kind of breaks down the transition of coming from where I came from. This book is different. This one's called Split Decision. And this was written with one of my crime partners, Spike. See, there's a pre-Ice T, before I ever started making records, where I was in serious trouble. I was out there. I was pretty heavy into crime. And the theory of ever being on television or playing a fucking policeman, come on, get the fuck out of here. So me and him were together as kids.
51:05And the book takes you through some of the things we did. Oh, wow. You know, when you tell your war stories, people are always like, is that real? But now there's two people telling the story. So when I say, yeah, this happened, and at that moment, I grabbed the hammer, and he goes, and then ICE did this, and then ICE did that. So it validates the story. But there's a point in the story where I made a decision that I'm not breaking the law anymore. It's like stopping doing drugs. It's like I'm done. You guys might continue to do it, but I'm done because I see a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm starting to sell records and I got to stop.
51:46So he decides to put one more leg down. It's a jewelry store robbery in San Diego. He sets it up. He sends some cats to do it, calling himself being out of it. And in the midst of it, somebody got killed. So they give him a sentence of 35 to life for being the conspirator or the mastermind. This is the book Split Decision. As I'm walking down a red carpet for New Jack City, he's getting off the bus to Folsom Prison or Soledad or wherever. And it takes you on our trajectory. As I'm going through all these great things, he's going through all these horrible things. So he did 26 years and he's home now.
52:31And he said, Ice, I want to write a book. And I told him, I said, nobody gives a fuck about you. It's my boy named Spike. I said, nobody gives a fuck about you. But then I realized he was sincere because he wanted to redeem himself. He wanted to give people a cautionary tale. I said, you know what makes you special? Me. You have a friend who made it. That makes you different than other people. You could have chose my road, but you chose that road. Let's write a book. So we got Doug Century together, who's a big crime novelist and bestselling author. And we put this book together. And it's just a cautionary tale to tell people every single decision you make, even after you leave the studio tonight, Rob, every decision can send you on a trajectory that God knows what the fuck.
53:17And you have to make sure you make a conscious decision, especially when you're taking a negative route. a lot of times you even know it. You go, okay, they want to come over here. They want me to do these drugs. I should be doing this shit. And you make the wrong decision and it ends up bad. So yeah, that's what this book is about. It comes out this month. I think it comes out the 19th. So far we've gotten rave reviews. People say it should be in schools. Sounds amazing. Like I say, if you had caught me when I was 18, Rob, that's why I'm behind these bars. You would said, throw this guy away, never let him out.
53:56Fuck him. He's a terror. Now I'm the most favorite cop in the history of the fucking world. So the thought that someone can't change is bullshit. It's absolute bullshit. You're victims of situations. You're victims of your peers, people you're around. And with the right guidance, anybody can do. Now, don't get me wrong. There's some people out there that are fucking evil. There's some people that are just evil and they get off hurting people. All right. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about people that are just making bad decisions and need a little help and a little guidance. And hopefully this book will guide.
54:34Oh, man. That's amazing. That's amazing. Dude, this is great. This might be my favorite interview I've done. You know. All right. Pleasure meeting you, man. Take care. Yeah, you too.
54:47Wow. How about that book? I'm going to I'm preordering that book right now. I'd like to be in the movie, although somehow I don't think I'm right for either role. Man, I mean, that one speaks for itself, huh? Right. All right. You know what time it is. It's time to check the lowdown line.
55:09Hello, you've reached literally in our lowdown line where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 3-2-3-5-7-0-4-5-5-1. So have at it. Here's the beep. Hi, Rob. This is Jenny from Charlotte, North Carolina. Love both your podcasts. I totally agree with you that Wind River is one of the best films ever made. And I have two questions for you. One, what director have you not worked with yet that you would like to? because I don't think you've worked with Taylor Sheridan yet. And also, what actor would you like to work with that you've never worked with before and why? Thanks, Rob.
55:54Bye. Oh, thank you. That's a great question. And right, Wind River, if you haven't seen it, it's a great one. They're all amazing in it. And Taylor Sheridan obviously made Wind River and then went out and created a little show that nobody's ever heard of called Yellowstone, which I love. Yes, I'd love to work with Taylor Sheridan. Hey, Taylor Sheridan, if you're listening, I look as good as anybody else in a cowboy hat. I have dad jeans. I have bootcut dad jeans I can wear, you know, just as good as Kevin Costner. So just saying. Oh, and fleece vests. I can out fleece vest any actor working today if given the chance.
56:31Anyway, Paul Thomas Anderson, I would love to work with him as a director. Damien Chazelle, love to work with him as a director. Sacha Baron Cohen as a director, comedy director. I'd like to work with Tina Fey. It's kind of the list, you know? Spielberg. I'd love to work with Steven. I know him a little bit socially, and every time I'm around him, I try to pick his brain, and he's such a lovely, lovely nice man with so much knowledge, obviously. Anybody that I can learn from, and anybody who is currently at the top of their game, that's kind of the way I categorize it. thank you for listening.
57:11Please keep listening, and I'm glad you're listening to both podcasts. All right, we're going to try to top that next week. Don't know how we will, but we're going to do our best, so don't forget to subscribe to this whole season we're doing, and that interview does deserve a five-star. I'm going on Apple and giving that a five-star, so I hope you will too. And by the way, if you liked that as much as I did, take the link to the episode and text it to your family group chat. Spread the word, because I thought that That was super special. See you next week on Literally. You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Rob Schulte, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar.
57:49Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. Our research is done by Alyssa Graw. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Joanna Solitaroff at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. All of the music you hear is by Devin Bryant. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week on Literally with Rob Lowe.
58:18This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.
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From the publisher
We're looking back at Rob's conversation with musician and longtime "Law & Order: SVU" star Ice-T! You'll hear how writing rhymes for gang members helped Ice-T hone his craft, why Rob and Ice-T acted in the same movie but never saw one another, a short and intriguing history of hip-hop, and why Black Sabbath and Lamb of God are Ice-T's heavy metal heroes. This episode originally aired in September 2022.
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