Matthew McConaughey: Put Up A Pretty Light (Re-Release)

27:05Kind of rolls off the tongue. He's McConaissance. I don't know. Kind of fun. Kind of cool. Sounds lyrical. I dig it. He goes, wow. KG, brilliant bastard, you. It's so good. But it was a McConaissance. It is a McConaissance. We're living in the McConaissance. We are. living in it it's happening right now it's a verb it's just the latest thing it's a verb um do you have fond memories of doing contact i do i do so for those listeners matthew's great in contact with my beloved beloved beloved amazing jody foster and directed by bob zemeckis you know what's insane about that movie i have two second part in it i came in to do for fun and um that the science of that movie like holds up big time yeah like yeah it's it's intense the science of it yeah it is that and you know i've got a lot of people now i'm hearing a lot about that movie you know you hear people you're in different places in the world different demographics like different shows you're in different times your life boy it's contact and interstellar are coming at me from the outside world a lot now a whole lot well interstellar is is that there's a whole other subject i want to get to in a second but you're right i wonder why both those movies obviously are thematically similar yeah i don't i don't know people thinking about you know uh after covid's year thinking about what is it you know what's it where are we going to go?

28:37How do we get off this earth? Some people I'm sure are thinking that. Right. You know, there's been an ongoing conversation and battle with like the existence of God and science, which is the reason why I love doing contact and wanted to step into the believer's role. Yep. Yeah. And then I met with, you know, I haven't kept up much with Bob Z. I've run into him quite a few times. He's still, you know, Mr. He's Bob Z. Bob Z, man. Yeah, it works better as Bob Z than Bob Z. Bob Z. Oh, by the way, only Bob Z. I think the one scene, the sort of big scene that we're all in is that conference table scene.

29:16Yeah. And where I have one of my favorite lines I've ever said as an actor is like, we don't even know if these aliens believe in God. It's one of my favorite. It's a great line. Isn't it? Yes. Isn't that a great line? I was playing like a version of Ralph Reed, the conservative coalition guy yes his whole his whole raison d 'etre see i'm i'm competing with you on the french stuff now yes um was was was do these aliens believe in god um but we shot that scene for like four days it was a long four days yeah and i lost my voice for two of them and they had to shoot a steroid into my throat and the first two days i don't even know if you remember this when it came to, we obviously didn't do my coverage.

30:00We did everybody else. And I would just tap my pencil for my lines. Never said a word. But that was like Angela Bassett and Tom Skerritt and James Woods and you. And I mean, like it was Murderer's Row. God, it was fun. Yes. You know, that's the first time that I'd worked with somebody like Bob Z, who's choreographing camera moves, that that was the first time I'd ever been like, okay, and you'll be here. You say that half of the line. And then on this note, you then step to this mark. And so it was a whole new dance for me to work with Bob Z because I was now working with the production, working with the camera moves, working with cranes, working with different marks like I'd never done before.

30:41It was a whole new discipline for me to learn. I think it's a great discipline. I take a lot of pride in it. And as I know you do, too. You must run up against actors who are like, I'm going to do what I want to do. And the camera's there to record me. But I think that's kind of self-defeating. Well, I've been guilty of that myself as well. I mean, I get that it's a – because I got to do what's going to be true for my man, but I don't want to – No, it's finding the true for your man. You can't do what's not true for you, for sure. That's job one. I mean, that goes without saying, but finding a way to – I once worked with a director.

31:23he was the guy who shot Backdraft and The Abyss. Can you imagine? Yes. He shot a movie underwater and a movie about fire. And he kept wanting me to open a blind on a certain thing. And I realized he just wanted me to open the blind because the shot was going to be bitchin. Right. And look fucking great. I was like, you know what? Hell, it's as good a motivation as any. I'll do that.

31:50I'll tell you a story, though, about where that can go wrong. Days Confused. There was a part, there was an actor who Rick would kind of gather around and go talk, so what would y 'all be doing? You know, and this actor said, well, I wouldn't be hanging with this group here where you're shooting the scene. I'm actually going to be over with my girlfriend playing guitar and reading poetry. And Rick Lindner was like, great, but can you do that here with the group? Because this is where I have, we're lit and where the camera's set up and everything. And the actor goes, no, I can't. I'll be, I'm going over there.

32:23And Rick was like, okay. Rick goes, but you know, I don't have time to go set up and shoot and light that scene over there to cover you. He's like, well, that's what my man would do. Well, the guy ended up writing himself out of the movie. So if, at least go, can you do what you need to do where the light is? If you are on one of those tracks of I have to do is true of my man, make sure you can do it where the light is, please. Cause you will. You don't need to tell me, dude. I'm like, I'm like a moth to flame. I tell the DPs, I go, You put up a pretty light, I'm going to go fucking stand right in front of it.

32:56Like, that is number one. Can y 'all quote that? That's it. You put up a pretty light, I'm going to fucking stand right in front of it. The Rob Lowe Show. I love it. This is part of his grace of getting older. This is part of it. Find the pretty light and go stand right and fuck in front of it. Rob Lowe. Yes. Love it. By the way, it takes a certain sort of narcissistic courage. I love it. I can love it. And the thing is, there's a whole lot of people that feel the same way, but just couldn't say it as poetically as you just did. That's what I'm saying. You got to be able to own it, right? You got to own your shit, man.

33:37You know? Now, is it true that you were in contention? And whenever I hear this, I know what that, we all know what that's like. It means it, maybe it's true. Maybe it isn't for Titanic. So I went and read for Titanic with Kate Winslet and it was not one of the auditions. It was like they filmed it. So it was like into screen test time. And I left there. Did Jim, did Jim shoot it handheld? Did Jim shoot it himself, Cameron? I don't. He had to have, right? I think so. I don't, I don't remember though. He did Jim, I think, because I only got like nods from Jim, but from the producers and Kate and everything we like after we left you know it was one of those ones where they like followed me and on when we got outside they were like that went great I mean kind of like hugs I really thought it was going to happen did not so did not fuck I still because I asked Cameron about this because the sort of gossip over years that I had heard and would see written about me was that I had the role Titanic and turned it down.

34:45Negatively. Oh, no. Not factual. I did not get offered that role because I've always said I was like, for a while, I was thinking like, who was my, I got to find that agent. They're in trouble. No way. If I got that. Well, I did never get the offer. I did not ever get the offer. And Jim finally confirmed that. But he either got someone, he either malaprop something or someone took something he said and that ran for a while. And I had to answer that question. I never got offered that as far as I know. I'm telling you, I did go have a good screen test, thought I had the role, but did not get the role.

35:14So, yeah, I was in contention. It could have been a different movie. You could have been that. And I screen tested for the Billy Zane bad guy part. Okay. And Jim shot that. I'll never forget. He handheld shot it himself. Okay. Neither one of us made the cut. But we were in the run. I know. We were in the run. What did we have? We were. We could have been contenders. Could have happened. Could have happened for us. Love it. I also need to ask you about, I'm doing a deep dive on the career here, bro. And you've got such a good one. It's so fun to go back. And you never know, like you said, people talk to you about movies and TV shows.

35:53It's dependent on the time you're living in, the demographic, what the age of the person is, whatever, what their tastes are. And I find it always so fascinating to see what people are going to come up with. Frailty. Frailty. Well, you pulled one deep in the archives, sir. I told you it was coming deep out of the archives. Bill Patmite, who was my best friend. You and Bill were best friends? We're best friends. Oh, I didn't know that. Well, God bless Bill, man. I know. God, he was like, oh, God, buddy, you got to see. God, I got Matthew McConaughey to do my movie. You know, he was. Wild Bill. That's a really.

36:33Wild Bill. Frailty is a really good movie. Yeah. Really gnarly, really intense. Brent Hanley wrote it. good still still friends with brent hanley who's the writer of that yep yeah really really good movie um and then of course uh how was your experience on magic mike i loved magic mike i did too no man magic mike was look steven soderbergh calls he and steven soderbergh i can call matthew mcconnell he'd be in the movie before i'm like oh wow great and then i remember getting on off the phone with him when he tells hey i got this script's coming to this guy dallas He runs a strip club, male strippers, man.

37:11And he's telling me, I was like, oh, this sounds carny. And he's like, oh, it's real carny. I was like, okay, before we get off the phone, give me one launch pad line. Just because I'm not going to get the script was still two days away from me getting. I said, don't leave me with 48 hours in my imagination to run into what this character is without you giving me just like one log line to think about. That's so smart. And so he sits there and quietly and he goes, his character's name is Dallas, right? He goes, well, you know, one thing about Dallas is he's pretty connected to the UFOs, man. So in saying that, you talk about a launch pad line.

37:48I'm going, oh, he just took, he's opening up saying the roof is off. So I'm like, here we go. So I started studying like, this guy's a capitalist. I started going on on the days of set, running the production like I was running my show. I'm calling, calling, you know, the new dancer over going to say pitching scenes that we never even shot. Like, here's what you do. It's about getting money in our pockets. I want you to write down what kind of car every woman pulled up in. And if they were the ones who had a driver, I want to know if they're paying you in 20s or Ulysses S. Grant's or Benji Franklin's or Black Label American Express.

38:25I want to know who's in the Mercedes in the Black Label American Express. I'm going to have my main man, Channing Tatum is going to be zeroing in on them because what we need to do is get them in the back room after when they pull out the big bucks for the private dance. And that's how we get more money in my pocket. So it was all these things. It was just super fun. And I don't know if you ever worked with Steven before, but he, he, um, you go to set and you better just start doing what your character would do because you're sitting around. You and I are talking over there, talking like this.

38:55We look down. Steven's not giving us any direction about where the scene is. The AD hadn't told us where to go exact, exact, but all of a sudden you look over and track's being laid and all of a sudden there's a camera on and all of a sudden you look over and steven's head pops up from behind the camera and goes which means yeah i do it do the scene i got i got that same phone call from steven for uh behind the candelabra and he was like so it's and i and i've been i've been following the movie because i love michael douglas and i love matt damon and they're playing liberace and his yes boy toy boyfriend i'm like i am so down for this movie i can't fucking wait to see it and then they called me to be in it and but there was i was like well what's this character again like you did i was like because well he's a beverly hills plastic surgeon a b grade low rent beverly hills plastic surgeon i immediately was like oh so he looks like every guy at the laker game that has good seats but not great seats and that was my way in because i so know that you you were great yes uh uh uh uh um that's so true and isn't it something a little just a little context of a character that guy now he's a second he's not the great seat he's the good that there's a whole world you could write an encyclopedia on that guy and that one line right said and that's what i call a launch pad line where you go oh there's a book on this character.

40:25I, and that tells you so much about, about somebody. It looks like everybody at the leg game with not the great seats, but the good seats. It's perfect. Yeah. And there you go. It did. Yeah. You know how that guy wakes up in the morning. You know how he takes a whiz, you know what he drinks at night, you know, where he's having lunch, you know, you know, all of it. Yep. So here's my, here was my issue though. Tell me if you think like this too, because you also like, I also love that you like to pop in like, like on Wolf of Wall Street, where you just pop in. It's like you come out of the fucking bullpen, throw fucking 106 mile an hour heater, strike out the side, doff your cap and return.

41:02I love that. I love that shit. So, but you also are like, okay, I got all these great hitters. I got to like strike outside here, man. I don't want to get blown off the field here because I definitely am competitive that way. And I'm thinking, okay, so I got Michael Douglas, who's one of the great movie TV actors, whoever lived Matt who's as good as anybody who's ever been can play everything under the fucking sun they're playing larger than life characters I don't want to get worked over by these guys and so I came up with this really insane makeup and hair idea and I called Steve and I said hey just tone wise like what's the sort of like ceiling here because I have kind of a big idea and he was like oh the bigger the better I was like fantastic so i i do the crazy face that i did and then i was thinking uh-oh i i'm gonna look like brooke shields like because i look like her anyway so you can only imagine with the smooth face and that ponytail it's like i'm gonna look very fey and they're playing fey so i don't want to do that so what do i do so i gave him the voice of the guy from the men's uh from uh men's The men's warehouse.

42:20Yeah. Men's warehouse. You're going to like the way you look. Yeah. So I figured if I, if I, do you know what I mean? If I do, because they're doing that. So you're going to like the way you look. Yes. Yes. Oh, beautiful. Beautiful. That's the way we're, that's the way we think. Am I right? That, well, there you go. That's it. And that's, that's comedy genius. And, and it was still a real person. And, you know, and there you go. And Stephen, again, told you the same thing. No, the roof's off. Come on. You know, when I worked like with – you're talking about Scorsese on Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah, man, I'm stepping into a well-oiled machine.

43:02Scorsese and DiCaprio have worked together many times. They've already been in production. I'm popping – Can I just stop you right there? Because this is what you're describing. That is a freight train ripping down the tracks. And if you try to jump that in the wrong way, it'll rip your fucking arm off. Yeah. So I'm there. You know, I'll write. I always rewrite and add on to all my scenes because I'm always like, well, what if the scene just went on and on and on? What if it was on for an hour? Know your monologue. And it'll expose some things. Most of it I never end up using. Some of it I use is good.

43:39Some of it's not. So I get to talk about launchpad lines. That character had a launch pad line. I mean, a line that I read in the original script that made me go, who the fuck is that? Who really believes that? And it was this. Leonardo DiCaprio's character asked mine, hey, what's the secret? What's the secret to this stockbroker thing? And my guy tells him cocaine and hookers. And I went, who is that guy? Now, what if that's not an attitude? What if this guy really believes that? Whoa. Now, there's a book on that guy who's like serious about it. So then I go off and start thinking about, you know, let's exaggerate how many times you jack off a day, all this rookie numbers.

44:22Then I start talking to these other people that had done those trades in that day. And all of them, when you'd say like, so were you on the up and up? They'd all be like, yeah. And you were like, oh, this is a whole scam going here. It's a fugazi, fugazi. It's all a mirage they're selling. So I just start saying all this stuff. So now I then, I don't know if you've ever done this, but you write something out and you add to a scene. If you pitch it, you better not be pitching it, basically. Sometimes it's best to just get in the scene and do it and don't even tell anyone you want to do it. But sometimes, and this time I'm with Scorsese, I'm like, I think I got to at least run it by him.

44:58But I know you better nail it when you're pitching it because if you don't nail it in the pitch, the answer is no. Yep. Yep. So I get in behind the monitor and I go through this thing that I made the scene about two to three times longer than it was originally scripted. And I ripped through it. I knew I'd nailed it. And he's just sitting there. Just laughing. He loves funny. And he's just laughing, laughing. And he's over. He goes, I love it. He goes, did you say the thing about the thing? And I go, yeah. And he goes, did you say the other thing about the other thing? I go, yeah. He goes, great, then do that.

45:29So we get in there on the day and I just go rip it. We work it. We got it five takes. We're set. I'm banging on my chest before the take because I'm partially nervous about stepping into this freight train. So, beat on your chest, gets my voice down low. I'm nervous. My voice is a little high. I want to lower my voice. I want to get in the rhythm of my character in this scene. And I also am taking some enjoyment in the entire crew going, what the fuck's a weird guy doing? What's McConaughey doing? I wanted to, I was putting myself on an island, right? To go like, what the fuck is he doing? I needed to feel like, okay, you got to dig your way out of this, right?

46:03I wanted to be like an underdog. So, Ben, we do the scene, got it. We finish the scene because every time I started the scene, I'd stop, beat my chest and start the scene. Leonardo goes, hang on a second, Marty. He goes, what's that thing you're doing before? And I told him what I just told you. He goes, what if you do that in the scene? Bam, next take, get it, do it in the scene, started it off, got through the scene, put it off, book into the scene with it, and there it was. And then Leo took it and actually used it later in the film. It was great. So it was super fun. And the way you, you know, you work with people that collaborate.

46:32I'd stole the Fugazi, Fugazi thing from Leonardo. He had said that word a couple of days before. I was like, what is that? And he explained it. And then he was like, yeah, it's a Fugazi. It's Fugazi. And I had that play on words. So that was him. A lot of that was his idea. And then you have Marty, who's loving humor and laughter and saying, you can say anything you want. Just make sure you said the thing about the thing. And, you know, that's how that went down. That was super fun because it is highly intimidating to step in for those one day roles. Oh, it's brutal. Nothing more brutal. And you crushed it.

47:03And the thing I love about it, too, is the graciousness of Leo. Yep. Like, he's like, he wants you to win. Yep. That's another thing. Not everybody. I've worked with people that didn't want me to win. Yep. I've worked with people that you can see him going, oh, this guy's bringing the goods. I want to undercut him a little bit. I got to bring him down. And, you know, but fortunately, I've worked with more people, a lot more people, and Leonardo to one of them who was like, oh, no, this is great. This is cool. Yes, I'm going to sit over here and be the guy that's listening, going, uh-huh, uh-huh, and was feeding me ideas.

47:39And I got to say, that's how I learned to work in Days Confused. That was three lines, character Wooderson in Days Confused, that turned into three weeks work. Why? Because the director, Richard Linklater, kept inviting me back. And every one of those other actors, Cole Hauser, Affleck, London, Parker Posey, all those actors would just throw me stuff. I don't know. What do you think, Wooderson? In the middle of scenes. Just lob me stuff. So they were writing me in. They went to Richard Linklater and said, I know we're supposed to go get Aerosmith concerts at the end of days in so-and-so's car, but we like Wooderson.

48:17Can we go? You think Wooderson would take us? Can we go get Aerosmith tickets in Wooderson's car? Rick comes to me, hey, yeah. I love that. You were a local hire, right, as they call it. Yeah. So for people listening in, like when you make a movie in a location, like you go to – you don't make it in Hollywood. You make it in Dallas. You make it in Chicago, whatever. To save money, you hire the local actors, local hires, right? You don't bring the hitter. And suppose, you know, you're at the mercy of what the local talent is. And I love when local hires become big stars. Whereas I did a movie that wasn't a very good movie years ago and we shot it in Chicago and we had this three line part like you're talking about.

48:56And we found this kid, John Cusack, and he was funny as shit. He had three lines and we kept throwing him stuff every single day because he just was crushing. And his part became, you know, probably like a fourth lead in the movie. And then the next thing you know, he's like, I'm going to leave Chicago. going, you know, but I love when that stuff goes on. Bravo. Yeah. Yeah, there's room. You know, the great thing about what we do in the arts is there's room for everyone to win a blue ribbon. You know what I mean? There's room for every character, even the person that has one line, to believe that the whole movie's about them.

49:37It's kind of what's great about what we do when everybody, every small part, you want them to take that ownership to go no this is movies about and haven't you seen people with one line steal the movie like or one scene i'm thinking of apocalypse now jd spradlin's got one scene he's like he's like uh he goes the speech about there's a conflict in every human heart congress of darkness and you know where they're eating the crazy shrimp heads yeah in apocalypse is one scene it's all you remember there's a great moment in inglorious bastards where uh Eli Roth is coming out and he's going to beat this Nazi to death with a baseball bat.

50:15And he looks down at the Nazi and he goes, ah, you got a medal on your fucking thing. What's that for? Killing Jews? And the guy looks up and he says, Tyler. And he just, that actor destroys with not just with one word. Right. Well, you see, and you also see like, what is that? Bridge of, is it Bridge of Spies? What's the Spielberg, Tom Hanks? Yeah, Bridget Small, that movie's amazing. Well, the guy, Hank, the little kid in the hallway that Hank sits down with on the bench and has that little conversation with, I come out of that movie going, I want to see the movie about those two. I want to see a whole movie based on those two in that scene and what that relationship could be.

50:59So, yeah, sometimes it's a line. Sometimes it's one scene that you go, that could be a movie. You go do, you know, Tropic Thunder. Ben, I think, still are still talking with Cruz about they came out of it going, yeah, go. make a movie on that character that he played, you know? That movie's amazing. That movie is amazing. It's one of those where you can turn it on no matter where it is in the movie. It's worth and fun watching from there until it's over. Anytime it's on. I had Downey came to visit me. You know, Downey and I know each other since sixth grade. We were in sixth grade history together.

51:35And he'd come up to visit and he was telling me about Tropic Thunder. I didn't know anything about it. And he was like, he was, he gave me a preview of the character. Like he did the whole, the whole thing for me in my backyard. Yeah. And my sons at that point were like maybe 14 or 15. And they didn't really know what, who Downey was. They didn't know anything, but they were riveted by just even the backyard version of that character, which might go down as one of the greatest performances. It was genius. Genius. Yeah. Amazing. So good, man. So good. And we'll be right back after this.

52:19How was that in the 80s? Talk to me about the 80s, man. Talk to me about y 'all rolling in the 80s. I'm a long guy. I still watch everything. I'm watching, you know, you were my go-to guy as an actor to watch. I loved the subject matter, the stories. I was thinking about the world you were in and, you know, St. Elmo's and all that. That was fun. Talk to me about the 80s, man. Thank you, man. It is funny. Pitt was telling me once, he's like, I packed up my car in Missouri, but before I left, I watched St. Elmo's Fire. And I was like, ah, that's cool. I like that. Yes. Well, it was such a great time.

53:03It was a great time, But also the movie business hadn't totally pivoted to really an unadulterated celebration of youth yet. So like. Right. There were still tons of adult movies and movies like St. Elmo's Fire were still considered other. Okay. Do you mean they were, there was like, there was Terms of Endearment. Right. And then there was St. Elmo's Fire. Okay. Gotcha. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, 100%. So we were still living in that. There was the big chill. Yes. And then there was, so we were always like, we were like in the, if the big chill was a network television show, we were in the CW.

53:54Yes. Is what it, is sort of what it felt like, right? A little bit. Yes. But so you didn't really have that sense of we've made it like we're movie stars because we weren't in those movies yet. Okay. That's what was really kind of interesting. Those movies are also doing well, right? Oh, they're crushing. Yeah. And you're going out and, you know, there's a group of you. You find you. We love to come see you and spend time with you in these different worlds. You're older for me. High school aspirations of cool and things like that and affluence relationships. You know, different than the John Hughes high school experience.

54:40They were, you know, they were, they were, they were, no, you were independent. You were out, you were into the world. You had ambitions, you had problems, you had relationships, you had friendships, you broken friendships, feelings were hurt, you know, stories of, you know, you and what's love, what's not, what's fair, what have you. I loved all the subject matter. It was juicy, great stuff. So you're saying those are coming out, and that's still CW, though. So when's this transition happen where all of a sudden, like, you go, or do you? No, you know what? It was when I did About Last Night. Yes.

55:09Oh, Demi. Which, to me, is so good in. And, you know, it's a David Mamet script. Put the headphones on. Put the headphones on. Do you remember the headphones move? I like that. Buddy, I stole. I used that one. the headphones move worked back in the day. That's great. Um, but that felt like the transition for me and because it was more, it was a tad more adult, a more sophisticated, the, you know, it was a mammoth thing and, and Ed Zwick, it was his first movie and he went on to do a lot of big, like adult movies after that. And, um, that sort of felt like a real, a real transition, but it's, you know, I've always, by the way, how have we not talked about Joel Schumacher?

55:52I mean, who directed Time to Kill and directed me in St. Elmo's Fire. I mean, how have we gone this long in the interview? Let's talk. Let's talk. You know, my Joe Strumach, someone says, I'm in Canton, Mississippi. And we're in there and we're in the production office. And he's got this big office down at the warehouse and the courthouse. He's got the big blackboard up there. And then we talk. And I ask him, I go, well, Joe, what's one, like, what's the one thing you can say like your movies, that all your movies are just going to have? What are you about? If you want to say your one thing is, oh, that's easy.

56:23And he turns around to the chalkboard. It's a piece of chalk. And he writes, S-E-X-Y, baby. I was like, yes. Sexy. Now, you know, and he did something for me. I can't wait to hear you tell your experience with him. But talk about I was coming in. I've got the lead in this movie. Time to Kill. Yeah. Time to Kill. Time to Kill. I had a couple moments where I get a little heady thinking I need to be more of an actor. And he would just come to me, put his hands on my shoulder and he'd go, Matthew, you are Jake McGanns. It's why I hired you. Do what you would do. It was the greatest thing he could have told a young actor who's now got the lead in a movie.

57:09Just go, no, I hired you for a reason. And what a casting director that guy is. and then he he had above all else Joel had taste oh yes above above all above all the only time his taste failed him is when he put nipples on the bat suit that's the only only time that's the only time well he liked it was the only time he had to put he liked to push a little bit just push a little bit well the best was I was interested in playing Robin and so I was like lobbying lobbying and my agents like no Joel has a very specific vision of George Clooney and Chris O'Donnell. I was like, yeah, I bet he does. And I knew I wasn't getting that.

57:54Yeah. You're not breaking up that trio, babe. Okay. No. Oh, yeah. Chumache. Chumache. So is it written in there that you play the saxophone or is that the sexiest, sexier instrument choice? Well, there's a couple of things that are kind of interesting. So like there's more hair most per capita in my hair in that in that movie but it could have been worse because i'd never heard of hair extensions i'd never heard of them and joel wanted me to have hair extensions and i remember driving to the valley to the hair extension place and i got lost i could not figure out where to go and i was really frustrated and i was like i didn't go just because I was lost.

58:41It was like up in like deep in the valley. And then the next day we had to leave. So I missed having hair extensions by proper directions. Okay. And it could have been so much worse. It could have been so much more hair and so much more mousse. So you didn't ever have them. You didn't get them. I never did. That's my real hair. Okay. But they were, but it's frosted. I'm wearing, I'd never had my hair dyed. Okay. Of course, Joel wanted my hair dyed. Of course. And I had to have an earring and I got my ear pierced. Of course, that's a Joel thing.

59:12And then the cast used to sit around and roll their eyes because I got more close-ups than anybody else in the movie.

59:27And when Demi was with Ashton, I was over at the house saying, talk with them, and Ashton was like, bro, have you seen Seen Almost Fire recently? I was like, not really He goes, oh, you've got to go back and look at that movie I was like, why? He goes, what that camera is doing to you is pornographic

59:55Shoo-ma-shay! Shoo-ma-shay! Yes, God bless you, buddy We miss you Oh, so much I mean, and the balls of him to be able to, I mean, you'd worked, but you were not anything that they were going to bank on at that time. And he cast you and changed your life. Dude, he goes, I bring up to him. I was originally, I met with Joe Schumacher for a time to kill about the part that Kiefer ended up playing. The Freddie Lee Cobb role. Wow. I read the script, read the book. I'm like, geez, I like this guy, J.B. Gantz. But I don't know if I got the cojones to bring that up. But I said, no, got to try it. Just try it.

1:00:34And in that meeting, I got a gap. I remember I was wearing a sleeveless Mellencamp T-shirt and smoking cigarettes. And I got a gap. And it was like the meeting was over. And all of a sudden, I go, so who's playing the lead of Jay Brigance? And he goes, I don't know. Who do you think should? And I remember going, felt my heartbeat go up. And I was like, I think I should. And he goes, oh, that's a great idea. I love it. But it's never going to happen. It's never going to happen. Matthew, it's a brilliant idea. But let me tell you something. There's no way the studio is going to cast a relatively unknown.

1:01:15You'd be perfect for the part. But it's just never going to happen. Now, we go on. They've got everything else cast. John Grisham has casting approval over that role because it's based on him. I think these are true. I was told they were true. Kevin Costner was under consideration, but they were like, well, he's that old. We need a young girl. You'd wonder why he wouldn't be a successful lawyer earlier. They were looking at Woody, but Woody had come out in Natural Born Killers, which Oliver Stone and John Grisham get in an editorial fight because there was a copycat-like murder in Mississippi of someone that conjured some new.

1:01:55and I had heard that there was John Gershwin going, no way that guy, Woody, who played Mickey, is going to play me. So that moves him out. They're coming down. We're a couple months before every other role is cast. Sandra Bullock's already in the role of Roe Arc. While You Were Sleeping comes out. Now she can green light a movie and now she can green light a movie after she was already cast in the third lead. Oh, can't find the lead. All of a sudden, I get a call. Want to screen test you, Matthew, for the role of Jake McGanns. we're going to do it on a Sunday. I believe it was Mother's Day. We're going to do it at a little studio off of Fairfax.

1:02:30The reason we're not doing it at a studio is because even if you do great, you're probably not going to get the role. And as you're coming into Hollywood, I don't want you, Matthew, to have it on your resume that you tried to get a role and screen test for Tom McGill and didn't get it. How thoughtful is that from the guy? That's Schumacher. So I sneak up to the studio. There's a full jury. Camera's lit. It's a screen test. I get up. I read this final summation like a script says. He goes, great, great. You did great. Now throw away the script. Say what you would say. Well, I sit there and say what I would say, and I'm saying stuff that no lawyer would say.

1:03:04I would be in contempt of court if I said what that were in court. Anyway, I get going. He all of a sudden, he steps in and goes, cut, cut, cut, cut. Great. Brilliant. Thank you. Great. Now, goes on. Those things happen, which make the studio think maybe we could try something out with a newbie in the role. John Grisham sees it. His wife likes. His wife tells John Grisham, that's just you. All of a sudden, I'm working in Piedras Negras on Lone Star with John Sayles. It's midnight. I get a call. John Grisham and Joel Schumacher, you want to be Jake Brigant? She got the role. Yeah, I do. Ran off into the desert, man, about a half a mile until I was sweating.

1:03:40Tears coming down my eyes. Took a knee. Saw a full moon in the air and reached up there and said, let's shake on it. Thank you. And that was how that happened. A lot of different things had to go my way. and schumacher was protecting me the whole way that's such a great i mean that's the look i'm i'll only speak for myself i have a complicated relationship with what we do but it's stories like that that that make me remember that i love it yep it's a it's an awesome business we're in the storytelling business and it takes all kinds you know i mean i always talk about people go you know oh that person you actor that actor's weird or whatever i'm like man i love it when actors have their idiosyncrasies as long as they're on time and know their stuff go do whatever you got to do same by the way the more the actors they'd be like oh you're here's come so they are always the ones i love the most me too me too they're always the ones i love the most yeah did you um did you have any did you have any interactions with you did you Of course you did in the Nolan movie with Michael Caine, right?

1:04:49Yeah. I mean, by the way, he is not complicated and people say, oh, here comes Michael Caine. He's a genius. He's not that guy. I've just pivoted for a minute only because I love him so much. And he's a great way to look at like how people can. He told me this recently. And I don't do a Michael Caine, but I'm going to try to do a horrible one here because I can't help myself. Well, it was terrible. I'm not doing it. That was like a bad Paul McCartney. I'm not doing it. No, but he just said that he came up with a bunch of dudes. And it's Malcolm McDowell. There are two or three other ones that he named.

1:05:28And he goes, I wasn't the best actor. Not even close. But the other one, and I wasn't the hottest, and I didn't have the best career. But the other ones either drank themselves to death or forgot how to act. and I was the last man standing and now I own it and it's true I mean he just he's that he's Michael Caine you know what I mean he's he's the guy it was interesting I said what do you mean they forgot how to act he goes oh and I forgot for the life of me I wish I could remember these specific it was some actor and some great performance that we all would know and he goes and he didn't work for like three years after that and you start thinking you start overthinking You worry about that.

1:06:13And they literally forgot how to act. He goes, oh, I know what it was. He was saying people always gave me shit about being in so many movies and that people thought I worked for money. And people thought Michael Caine's done great movies and trash movies. And the truth of it is, I love acting and I never forgot how to act. And other people did. And they like that young man I was talking about in Days Confused wrote themselves out of the script. Yes. Yeah. They overthought themselves out of the script. They snobbed themselves out of the script. I have a great Joel one for you. And you can all do a little parlor game.

1:06:52You've seen Elmo's Fire fans out there. There was a person, and I don't want to say gender because that will make it maybe too easy. But there was a person on the show who was struggling with various things. And I'll never forget Joel taking that person's hand again. Um, you have a drug problem, a punctuality problem, a communication problem, and a Hollywood problem.

1:07:28It was. You're writing yourself out of the script. You're forgetting how to act. I love where it starts. You have a drug problem, which leads to a punctuality problem, which time is our most valuable thing. You have a communication problem, which means you have a Hollywood problem. So good, right? Yes, yes, yes, yes. Shoo-mashay. Well, this was so great. I was so happy to have you. I'm so happy for, and let me join just to go on the record. It sort of goes without saying that I almost didn't say it, is your work in Dallas Buyers Club is, you know, as you know, it's one for the ages. Thank you.

1:08:06Thank you. You know, I just, I love, I love watching from afar and, you know, I love seeing guys I love do well. And, and by the way, congratulations on the family. Sounds like you're, you're, that, that might be your greatest accomplishment. I always feel like that's, that's a great accomplishment for anybody, but in our business, I also think it's particularly, can be hard and, and, and you're crushing it. You know, my wife did a great deed. My 12-year-old's over here peeking in the window, Levi. Before we had kids, she came to me and she goes, on one condition. I go, what? She goes, you go, we go.

1:08:51I did the same. Same. Right on. You've got to have them with you. I talked to, and I won't say their names, but I talked to some other fathers that are elder statesmen in our business and asked how they did it. And they said, well, it's a choice, either friends or dad. And each one of them, there were three of them, chose friends. That means they went to work, left their family, let their kids stay with their friends. And all three of them, now their kids are grown out of school and out of the house, said if I could go back and do it again, I'd do the opposite. I'd make them come with because we grew apart.

1:09:27I did. Yeah, I had the same instinct. My kids went everywhere I went with me. it becomes a little tougher as you know when they when they're you know 12 and 13 and they have their friends yeah which is one of the reasons why i transitioned into television when i did because it wasn't television wasn't really that cool yet when i did the west wing but part of it was okay these kids now have friends of their own they're you can't just uproot them with a tutor or whatever and bring them so i gotta that was a big part of and again that's how you know you tell you how do you stay relevant how do you do sometimes it's just the weird things you do for other reasons that end up helping you in ways that you never could have imagined and i i don't know if i would have done west wing had i not had kids at that age where i was really interested in staying in los angeles not doing a another movie up in fucking vancouver right where sri lanka or whatever yeah right yeah yeah amen love it um cool well listen brother This was great.

1:10:26Congrats on the book. I think you better start working on a second one. All right. I dig. I dig. I got some ideas. I got to work out. I think I want you to write a book about acting. Yeah? Because I know you've got a great acting class in you. I think we all do in a weird way. I would love it. It's like, because actors who've been there and done it have such a different perspective. I would love a book on acting from you. Career management acting. Yep. Don't have it. don't have a drug problem. Be on time. Be able to communicate. Don't have a Hollywood problem. Don't have a punctuality problem.

1:11:03You are punctual. People at home are going, do you think it was Andrew McCarthy? No, no, it couldn't have been Andrew. He's too nice. Was it? People are like, is it Judd Nelson? It might be Judd Nelson. I think it might be Judd Nelson. Wait, do you think it was? I know, it was Mayor Winningham. Yes. Ah, beautiful. Hey, great stuff. Have a great, beginning to 2021, man. Same with you. And look forward to talking again. Always great to see you when I see you. Look forward to doing it in person next time. I do want to end with this, though. When I first met you, contact, set, trailers. I'm sitting on the steps of my white trailer, my star trailer, the one we're all over.

1:11:41They're lined up. This guy comes bounding around the corner with a cigar, dressed in suit, looking sharp. Comes over. Hey, Connie, as he's saying hi to me, this person walks around this attractive person, walks around the corner. And without missing a beat, while he's got the cigar and he's saying hi to me, it instinctually, you looked up and you went, ha, look at you. I loved it. I was like, look at you. What a great introduction. You didn't even know this person. Ha, look at you. And I was like, it made this person feel so good. It made me laugh my ass off. And you were just right there. going cigar holding court in tune.

1:12:21They're like, yes, look at me. Anyway, it was great. Oh, it's the best. And you're the best. Thanks, man. This is so fun. Enjoy. See you next time, y 'all. All right, brother. Bye. I have such a big smile on my face. I think that's what he does. I think Matthew brings smiles to people's faces. That's probably his superpower. A question I was going to ask him, actually, was, what's your superpower? Now, I don't need to ask it because I know what it is. He brings a smile to your face. I hope you guys enjoyed that as much as I did. I could have talked for another five hours to him. And check out the book, Greenlights.

1:13:01He's in a reconnaissance. And we're just living in it. And happy to do so. Okay, before I sign off today, we're going to try a little something new. Some fun over here, literally. Okay, this is a new thing for us. I'm very excited about it. Hopefully you will be too. Because it's going to require your participation. conversation it's called the low down line the low down line so you dear listener can ask me your burning questions about the show frankly about anything and i'll just be honest because when i do my one-man show i open it up to questions and here's what i know the weirder the better like i don't want to hear like what was it like to be in the outsiders i don't want that Don't come at me with your weak cheese.

1:13:52Come at me with something, okay? So it's the low down line. So here it is. Here's the number. Here's the low down line number. 323-570-4551. That's 323-570-4551. One. That's the lowdown line. And I have big expectations for the questions you're going to give me. Thanks. We'll be back next week. Oh, and if you like the show, give us the rating and the review on Apple. We like those things. They move the needle. We like needles that are moving. We like green lights. All right. All right. All right. You have been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe. Produced and engineered by me, Devin Torrey Bryant.

1:14:45Executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile. Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco. And Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Stitcher. The supervising producer is Aaron Blair. Talent producer, Jennifer Samples. Please rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts. And remember to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.