Remembering Clive Davis

30:32I have to see if I have song hearing ability so that if an artist did not write, I need mainstream hits if I'm going to be a major. Here I had been out of the largest record company in the world, made it the largest, and here I was starting a brand new company. So I gave Barry Mandy. He, who always considered himself a composer, didn't even believe he was a showman, reluctantly did it. It was the first record on Arista, and it went to number one. So he gave me two songs on every subsequent album. He wrote the album, and he gave me two songs. Every song I gave him, trying to get the feeling again, Weekend in New England, I write this song.

31:38Looks like we made it. I gave it to him and he loved it and he brilliantly arranged it, but he still felt as a composer that that was the essence of who he was. And of course, just to digress for a second, we've had the great pleasure, Barry and I, because he ended up writing Copacabana. He wrote this one for you.

32:12and he's now in the Songwriters Hall of Fame, and I've had the great pleasure of presenting him with the Ella Award, where he was given the award that only Ella Fitzgerald, Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett have won as the great interpretive singers. So quickly moving fast forward, only given two songs on each Manolo album. I had a big backlog. And I said, my God, I got assigned another artist. Can't be a man.

32:53Rob Lowe:Wait, wait, wait. I got to stop you one second for some context. You're telling me that you had that many songs you thought would have been hits for Barry. Yes. You had more than two per album. Wow. Yes, I did. Well, it was proven because I then looked, and it's a thrill to discover artists from scratch like Bruce or Whitney or Leisha Keel. But it's also a thrill to bring back an incredible artist who was no longer recording and show that there are many more years of life and beautiful music. And so the first of such established artists that I signed, because Dionne Warwick had all those Burt Bacharach, Al David hits before, but she was no longer recording.

33:52And the first song we did together was a song I had earmarked for Barry, and it was I'll Never Love This Way Again. And I had Barry produce it, and Dion exploded, double platinum album, won the best two Grammys, best female pop vocal, best female R &B vocal. And it led to a wonderful association with Dion, where I found Deja Vu, Heartbreaker, and ultimately that's what Friends are for. And that led to Aretha Franklin and the great decades. Aretha and I worked together where I was her creative collaborator. And the two of us, after she had already been the Queen of Soul, with a collaboration with Jerry Wexler.

34:51But then we, and I found, I knew you were waiting for me, the great duet with George Michael. Sisters are doing it for themselves with Annie Lennox, Freeway of Love. And Aretha, well into her 40s, 50s, and later got Grammy nominations, Grammy awards, and number one records. And all that occurred prior to Whitney Houston. so that is the context where I learned somewhat yes there are the self-contained artists Alicia Keys I would never give an outside song to I respect her creativity and every rock artist that writes for themselves you sign for their genius but where artists really don't write like Aretha, Dion, Whitney, Ace of Base, Air Supply, I could go on and on.

35:58I then had honed my ears to find songs for their careers.

36:05Rob Lowe:Tell me about literally writing for, what did you get the writing credit on? It's Air Supply, All Out of Love, isn't it? Air Supply? All Out of Love came in after they had had a big hit record. But I went through their material, and in their material was a song called All Out of Love. But the lyric, I remember the next line was, I'm all out of love. I want to arrest you. And I looked at the two of them. I'm all out of love. I want to arrest you. So I said, what does that mean? I mean, in America, I mean, you get arrested. And somehow it had another meaning in Australia, where they came from. So I said, you know, this melody is killer.

37:07The title's fine. Let's sit down and write the lyrics to fulfill the potential. So for the only time in my life, I sat down and co-wrote with them the lyric to I'm All Out of Love.

37:28Rob Lowe:I mean, there's so many great little factoids, but that's a great one. Here's a good one for you. And I've been thinking about this for a while. My guess is this happened during the era when you were estranged from being able to work from Earth, Wind & Fire. The song September. Was that under your purview? Because I have a question about it. It was not. No. I knew it! It was not. I signed Earth, Wind & Fire under closeted circumstances. I had seen them open for John Sebastian of the Love and Spoonful. I was knocked out by this group. And they were under contract to Warners, but they were very, very unhappy.

38:19So they wanted to audition for me the kind of material that they would record in the future. and we arranged under very stealthy conditions a small studio in L.A. and they played Maurice White for Dean they played for me the material that they wanted to record but had not. I was knocked out. And so I said, look, I don't want to be teased If you ever get free of your Warner's contract, I will sign you. And sure enough, a few months later, I don't know how they did it, Bob Cavallo and Joe Ruffalo, they freed Earth, Wind & Fire. And for the first time in Columbia's history, we had the next convention in London.

39:20But my belief in them, there's a big group, that I don't want all the Colombian personnel from all over the world just to hear music. This group had to be seen. And they were much bigger than any record. And I don't know if they had a hit single because they were different and unique. So I flew them to London. and they blew away the audience there at Columbia. And that's how I introduced them to Columbia. They never forget it. And I just was down this past year. They were being honored by the National Portrait Gallery in D.C. They didn't even know that.

40:14Rob Lowe:That's a portrait. that that's a portrait i want to see i want to see the portrait of earth wind and fire well they're in the national portrait gallery wow and i went down there it was michelle obama was there and anna went tour and uh jeff bezos uh it was a wonderful evening and i inducted them into the national portrait now they never forget that they appear at my grammy party every few years they're wonderful human beings and they're fabulous musicians. So, so, so Clive, here's how I knew that September, one of my favorite songs was not under your regime. You know, that song's out of time badly.

41:02Is it? I never studied it.

41:04Rob Lowe:Oh, okay. So here's what you're going to do today. This is my gift to you. You're going to listen to September and you're going to see how horrendously bad out of time it is. And it's a massive hit and it's genius. But I would say by the time it ends, it's doubled its tempo unintentionally. I love these like weird little, because there's perfection in music, as you know, and then there's feel. And that was, there were other versions of the song where the time was proper, but it didn't have the feel. So they wisely went. It's like your famous story about David Foster's mix for I Will Always Love You.

41:45Rob Lowe:And I love that story. I love that story. David wanted to do, and I love, I'm not speaking out of school. I love David Foster. I've known him for 40 years, but he is a perfectionist. Like, he would rather, and I would say this to his face, he'd rather have a note be pitch perfect than good.

42:08Rob Lowe:So, and he wanted to rejigrate with the mix, and you said, no, this mix is good, and you sent it out, and the rest is history. Isn't that correct? That is correct. Yes, that's true, very much so. And David will be the first one to tell that story. Yeah, look, the feel is so important, and perfection sometimes is not the most desirable. David tells me a great story when he was doing the Canadian version of We Are the World. By the way, that phrase, the Canadian version of We Are the World, makes me laugh for some reason. I'm not sure why. And he had all these amazing artists. And he had Neil Young, who's probably on my Mount Rushmore as well, in the vocal booth.

42:56Rob Lowe:And he was like, Neil, I think you're a little flat on the third word. And Neil's like, hey, man, that's my style.

43:09Rob Lowe:And we'll be right back after this.

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45:32Rob Lowe:The unlikely couple of you and Patti Smith. Explain that one to me. I feel like you guys are totally the most, I mean, the big hit melodies, the earworms, the American songbook canon that I associate you with. And then Patti Smith, who, by the way, is one of the great authors of all time. I'm sure you read her books, right? Yes. They're amazing. Yeah. They're unbelievable. I would caution you to typecast me. Okay, good. I won't. You're right. I just explained to you that at Columbia, I only signed rock artists. I was shocked that I had ears for that. So I was not looking for great big songs when I signed Jandice Joplin.

46:26I didn't look for great big songs when I signed Bruce Springsteen or Aerosmith or Earth, Wind & Fire, if you will. So that along when I started Arista, as I mentioned, I was hungry to be a major label. It was a brand new company that I named Arista after the honor society in my high school was called Arista, all New York high school. And so there are two coexisting talents. One is your ear for songs. Two is your artist discovery So that it can accommodate And because of the artists That I signed at Columbia And The Rock that have gotten me In the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame I didn't get in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Because of the songs I found from Barry Manilow Or DM Warwick Or even Whitney if you will I said, so alongside those big songs that I found for Barry and Dion and ultimately for Whitney, Aris for Attracted, The Grateful Dead, Aris for Attracted, The Kings.

47:56I signed Ian Dury of Stiff Records. I had Lou Reed, Graham Parker. But Patti Smith, Patti Smith, my A &R man, Bob Fiden, alerted me to who she was. And the buzz was beginning. She was different, unique, rebellious, bright, literate, irreverent. And I said, I'm not going to audition her in Max's Kansas City. I took a small recording studio and I auditioned her in a group. Really still unknown, obviously. Different. But Patti Smith is a genius. And all you've got to do is listen to that lyric. Listen to whatever she did. Jesus died for somebody's sin, but not mine. You know, and I didn't look for hits.

49:11I was looking for an original rock and roll. And as she turned out, this great Renaissance woman. So, yes, I was a believer. I signed her. We've had a wonderful relationship. But she inducted me into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

49:32Rob Lowe:She is stupendous. I think Paul Simon is the greatest American songwriter. What do you think? I will echo that totally. I mean, to me, it's Paul Simon, Stevie Wonder, and Burt Bacharach. Those are the three to me. But Paul Simon, an amazing body of work. I mean, just an amazing body of work. I obviously worked with him as Simon and Garfunkel when I was head of Columbia. My life, they're both Paul and Audie are in my documentary, if you will. I was not there when they were interviewed by Ridley Scott. I was so touched. Honestly, Rob, all these decades later for them separately. They're not on the best of current terms, but separately to remember when they came to play Bridge Over Trouble Water for me, the album.

50:37And they were so sure that I would pick Cecilia as the first single from that album. And I remember going in the studio with them and Roy Halle, their engineer producer, listening. and I said, Paul Arding the first thing it was got to be trouble, trouble, water well they were both shocked at the time, why do you say that? I said because you can't approach life in a formula way yes tempo was considered yes, length of it this was over four minutes where the rule was every single had to be under three and a half minutes then. I said, but every so often, if it's a classic, if it's so original, if it's so overpowering, I vote we go with that because it's a home run.

51:43I believe in it. And in my documentary, each says they were shot, And they use that as an example of, if you will, how I became endeared to them because I went for the home run and it obviously proved right.

52:03Rob Lowe:Yeah, I mean, that's my son, who's 24, watched The Graduate for the first time this weekend and was just blown away, not only by the movie, but by that soundtrack. And I said, listen, Simon and Garfunkel, it doesn't get any bigger or better than them. And then what Paul went on to do on his own, he's just a spectacular, spectacular talent. He's definitely – my Mount Rushmore is getting bigger as we're talking. Right. Deservedly so. Paul is an amazing, and he was the first winner, I think, of the recently established Kershwin Prize as just an absolutely first-ranked top American songwriter. Clive, tell me about the Whitney Houston movie that you have in the works.

53:03Okay. I've seen the two documentaries that have come out on Whitney, and they were one-dimensional, often incorrect. The public has not seen the full story of Whitney Houston. Not to whitewash in any way her drug addiction, her premature death, nothing about her speculation. Meet them head on, resolve them with authenticity, but also show her musical genius. also show why she inspired everyone as the best singer of a generation, if not of all time. So I met about a year ago Anthony McCartan, who's a screenwriter, who had written The Theory of Everything in The Darkest Hour. But his biggest credit was that he wrote the screenplay for Bohemian Rhapsody, which is now the biggest, almost a billion dollars worldwide musical film of all time.

54:25And Anthony and I met, and he went through my book and my documentary, and he came to see me one day, and he said, I know you won so badly for the real legacy, for the real-life story, hard-hitting, heartbreaking. I'll work on it with you. He said it would be my pleasure, okay? And so over the last seven or eight months, I said, look, you can't do it, Anthony, until you really steep yourself. I will arrange for you to meet with Pat Houston, Gary Houston, Donna Houston, Nicole David. I even arranged for him to meet with Whitney's psychiatrist, which is unusual, but I vouched for Anthony. And he met with our costume dresser and our hairstylist.

55:33So that he's steep in an awareness. And then musically, I played him every Whitney performance from my Grammy party. You know, my party that I throw the night before the Grammys that has become. Biggest party in Hollywood. You know, and Nancy Pelosi, Tim Cook. Oh, everybody. David Hockney comes apart from Quincy Jones and Puffy and Beyonce and Jay-Z. It's a marvelous night every year. and we are first next week going to studios. Obviously, Sony will have the soundtrack album at the least with a great script that Anthony has written with the approval of the estate. And we're looking forward. Of course, it's a nightmare period right now, but we're really looking forward to moving ahead.

56:34with their true full legacy.

56:37Rob Lowe:Let me ask you this, Clive. Would you rather someone lip sync or sing? Because I look at Coal Miner's Daughter, Sissy Spacek. Great movie. She sang. I look at Sweet Dreams, Jessica Lange playing Patsy Cline. She did not. Both great movies. I actually don't think it matters. What would you prefer? her whitney's voice there are some voices you can either duplicate or compete with there's no voice like whitney and that's the voice that will be heard that makes your casting a lot easier too well we're looking at the best candidates right now rob oh i can't wait i I can't wait to see that. You will remember, I was at the Grammys this year.

57:34Rob Lowe:It was definitely in the 80s. I want to feel like it was around 85. I sat directly behind Michael Jackson, and Whitney came out, and she sang at the Grammys. And I remember her voice sounded. She obviously had a microphone, but I could hear her voice. It was at the Shrine. and it sounded like, the only thing I can compare it to is I was lucky enough to sit with Pavarotti in a room and have him sing and both of their voices came out of their heads. Not just their mouths, but it came, it felt like it came out of a tube. Like it was so powerful and so pure. I've never experienced anything, anything like it, like seeing Whitney live.

58:21Well, I think you'll see it in the movie too. She sang One Moment in Time. And look, we've got performances. Whitney, I'll never forget the heiress to 15th anniversary, 1990. Whitney's first record came out in 85. But she came out, and apart from singing The Greatest Love of All, she sang I Want to Dance with Somebody. And what separates her from the other two great, great, great singers of our lifetime, Aretha Franklin and Barbara Streisand, she scoured the stage going from one side to another with, I want to dance with somebody. She growled it. She pounded on her thighs. She went from one side to the other.

59:18So whether it's that or it's not right, but it's okay, or how will I know? She could do soaring ballads, but she can also do up-tempo dance records that can keep you on your feet the whole night. She was an incredible once-in-a-lifetime talent.

59:41Rob Lowe:And by the way, I agree with you on the three women as the greatest singers of our lifetime. Who are the three greatest men? You know, one of which, well, Sinatra. Yeah. I would give you five or six. I would include Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Johnny Mathis. I would include Luther Vandross. And the one young man, and I just had occasion, and our mutual friend Richard's Zoom that we're going through on this quarantine to tell John Legend that he has grown and grown and grown, that his voice is so special and powerful. He's right up there with Luther, you know. So those are some of the great male candidates.

1:00:39Of course, Sinatra is probably in the class by himself.

1:00:42Rob Lowe:For Sinatra, for me, it's the sort of phrasing and the swagger. There's nothing I don't think about the voice that is, I mean, it's great, but it's not like a Whitney tone. Do you know what I mean? I think it's more personality driven. Does that make sense? Well, let me caution you to not judge everything by power or range. Sinatra felt every kind of music. He brought his own rhythm. He brought his own beat. He was comfortable with jazz. He was comfortable. Plus, as soon as you hear his voice, you're not going to be confused as to who he is. He, and it's that reason why artists like Bono, O 'Kane, or the Grateful Dead, they all had unique respect for Frank Sinatra.

1:01:45Rob Lowe:I have a couple of questions to finish up, and this has been so great. And I know that you take time out of your beautiful day at Palm Springs. You're a super mensch to do this, and I appreciate it. And I ask my guests these a lot, these questions, and they seem tailor-made for you. I did not write these questions for you. I ask all my guests, but you are the real person to answer. I need you to give me your top three songs I know it's going to be hard They don't have to be yours They can be But the top three Listen It's like My asking you It's like Rob Lowe I don't know who you're asking these questions to Tell me your top two children You know what I mean?

1:02:33I know I can't separate Songs From what were part of my life. I really can't. I mean, all I know is that for artists that I was not associated with, let me just give a general answer, but with some specificity. For years, my favorite album was the Mamas and Papas. And when they came along and they were doing California Dreamin' and those songs during that early rock era. What a field for melody. What a uniqueness. Paul Simon, when you hear certainly Bridge Over Trouble Water would be in that top list. The great Stevie Wonder, as I said, and Burt Bacharach, the incredible catalog of that. And then those that touched my life, you know, the piece of my heart that broke Joplin.

1:03:43I write the songs that took Manilow to another level. But it's hard to imagine or think back. Was there anything like the Great American Songbook? Was there anything like Cole Porter? I spent so much time with my good friend Tita Khan listening to the great Sammy Kahn and Jimmy Van Heusen songs. So, wow. How do you compare the great American songbook in Cole Porter with Bridge Over Troubled Water and I Will Always Love You? I was there. I commissioned The Greatest Love of All. It was for the movie and the life of Muhammad Ali. and I had Michael Massa and Linda Creed and they came up with a song coming out of the movie on Muhammad Ali's life and it was called The Greatest Love of All and I had George Benson record it and it was a top 10 R &B hit.

1:04:55Go to 19, about eight years later and I'm auditioning Whitney Houston. And she steps out as a 19-year-old from her mother's act. Out of the blue, I had not even met her. And what song does she audition for me? In an audience at a club called Sweetwater's in Manhattan, about under 5 ,200 people. Whitney singing the greatest love of all. and breathing life, words, feelings, inspiration. Then I knew the composers didn't even know were there. And, of course, it motivated me. My God, I've got to sign this stunning young woman. Look at her version. What a genius. And, of course, that moment, that song twice appearing in my life is very special.

1:05:58Rob Lowe:Well, I was going to say, you've had so many, and I know it's an impossible question, but what do you think your favorite life moment is? Well, let me just tell you my favorite life moment. Apart from my family, because if I don't include my family, I'll get saddled with therapy bills still right now. So don't let me compare it to the birth of my four children or my eight grandchildren. I would have to say the most gratifying, to paraphrase, was when I was making too much money at Aristotle. We're talking of the year 2000. And I was making okay in the 20s, millions a year. Amazing. And the German company that owned it thought they could do it.

1:06:50They knew I was at the peak of my career. I had just re-signed Santana with Supernatural, becoming the 12th biggest selling album of all time. My love is your love.

1:07:03Rob Lowe:Smooth, with that great hit, Smooth. What a hit. Great song. Yeah, what a hit. And so they financed me starting a brand new company. They gave me$150 million, the largest company formed ever before that was Innesco at$38 to$40 million. I said, I've got to be a major overnight, and you've got to give me five multi-platinum and five new artists to start, because I'm not starting from scratch. They agreed. One of those artists was Alicia Keys, who agreed to come with me. She had no record out yet. She was just in the studio. And I said, plus, and this is what I'm leading up to, I will not offer any executive at Arista a penny more than they're currently earning.

1:08:07But I have to be a major company. And I've made a list of the 18 from the president to the executive vice president to the A &R staff, product, artist development, publicity. I said the 18 top executives of Arista. And I can't offer them anymore, but I'm going to start J Records with them. and they're free to either come with me and you could offer them anything you want to stay at Arreston. And Rob, 18 out of 18 executives came with me to Jay. So when you know I'm a hardworking guy, I've got hard criteria challenges, but the fact, and they were all married with family, every single executive.

1:09:11So overnight, Jay Records became Arista. And the fact that all 18 came with me to start Jay and, of course, explode Alicia and Luther and Busta Rhymes and all the American idols, et cetera, in the future, that was professionally my most gratifying special moment.

1:09:38Rob Lowe:Well, I would follow you anywhere, Clive. I really would. You've always been so nice to me and such a gentleman. And for a kid from Ohio whose probably first album was Barry Manilow and took so much shit for listening to Barry Manilow when all the other kids were listening to Led Zeppelin, I think it's perfectly fitting that you and I end up here today talking about your life and your great accomplishments. Well, pleasure to be with you. And it's always a pleasure to be with you. And all those Kenny G years when you were Kenny, close, close, close friend, I remember them well. Kenny taught me my golf stroke.

1:10:25Rob Lowe:Whenever I hit a good golf stroke, it's because I'm a good golfer. and when I don't hit a good golf stroke, it's because Kenny taught me how to play golf. That's the way. All right, Claude, love you, man. Thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it. You've been amazing. You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Sean Doherty, with help from associate producer, Sean Calvano. Research by Jeff Fox. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel. Our executive producers are Rob Lowe for Low Profile and Nick Liao, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross for Team Coco. Booking by Catherine Cook.

1:11:02Rob Lowe:Music by Devin Bryant. Special thanks to Hidden City Studios. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally.

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