The Long and Winding Road: Stories About Recovery (w/ Josh Brolin, Rob Delaney, Nikki Glaser, Katey Sagal, and More)

15:29Josh Brolin:Moving to France. I just want to have wine. What am I supposed to do there and not drink? I mean, it's in France.

15:33Rob Lowe:It's France. I'm not going to get fucked up. I don't want to have a glass of wine. And like within six months, they've bitten a cop in the face.

15:44Rob Lowe:Dude. It never fails. You're killing it, dude. Never fails. That's funny. Not once have I heard that story end well. That's funny, dude.

15:55Josh Brolin:You sound like us now, man. Right? Yeah. It's true. That was really funny, Rob.

16:03Josh Brolin:Good on you, man. I've heard that story many. I've been that story. I've been that story, you know? I got sober at 19. I was looking at 14 years in prison at that time. I had a baby on the way. I had fought six cops. And, you know, you end up going to prison for that kind of stuff, you know? And I was watching a lot of Bruce Lee movies at the time. It's the most, I'm not going to tell the whole story. I went over to his house. I think I was supposed to help him do something. But then I got there and I was like, oh, God, I just remembered drugs. We should go get some drugs. And it was three o 'clock in the morning.

16:43Josh Brolin:And he was like, no, dude, get out of here. I want to go. And he was with his mom. Anyway, I ended up hitting him. And so he says, I'm out of here. And there's this chaos. And then the cops show up. and he said as he was closing the door, he's watching me turn around and face the cops, and what he heard as the door was closing was, whoa!

17:10Josh Brolin:I mean, is that the truth? Yeah. Dude, 100%. Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee. So I didn't do, and again, I was into martial arts, and all that. So I didn't, it wasn't horrible, but he goes, so he goes, so he went to the hospital to go get stitched up. And he saw two of those cops at the hospital. He was like, oh, my bro's fucked up. Like he's going to jail for sure. And they took my clothes because I got to the booking room and I was ankle cuffed and I was handcuffed. I don't know why I'm laughing, but it's funny, man. And I was, and I was begging the cops. I was like, look, you're cutting off the circulation.

17:50Josh Brolin:and my feet are starting to swell. Just like, what am I going to do? I'm already in the booking room, you know? And so I finally convinced him to take off the ankle cuffs and I attacked him again.

18:03Josh Brolin:Cito rats, bro.

18:06Rob Lowe:He's a bad, bad man. It wasn't. How did you get domesticated?

18:11Josh Brolin:I don't know, man. Montecito was different back then. I don't know. It was just different, you know? Anyway. So yeah, I woke up naked. They took my clothes as evidence, and I woke up naked having no idea what I had done. And then I saw six counts of assault with a deadly weapon without firearm, and I was like, ooh. So I ended up doing a few months, and then I would go, I was in a halfway house after that, and I would drive from the halfway house to the birthing class. You know, one, two, three. One, two, three. and Trevor's 36 years old now and eight years sober and a cool motherfucker.

18:51Rob Lowe:Wow.

18:52Josh Brolin:That's good. That's great.

18:56Josh Brolin:The nervous applause.

19:01Rob Lowe:How talk to me.

19:03Josh Brolin:And I moved back recently.

19:05Rob Lowe:Can you believe moving back to this area? There's ghosts on every corner literally for you, right?

19:10Josh Brolin:I could tell you a whole story and I won't get into it. But I got so stressed out about moving here because it represented something very specific to me that I ended up contracting a mild case of Bell's palsy. From the stress? Absolutely 100%. There's nothing else to blame it on. The last time I got Bell's palsy, 17 years ago when I was thinking about moving back up here. Wow. So the two times I've gotten Bell's palsy are when I was thinking about moving up here. And then I moved up here and I was like, oh, it's all good.

19:40Rob Lowe:I was going to say, have you gotten through the other side of it where the memories aren't the number one thing you think of when you walk down?

19:48Josh Brolin:No, not only that, all these good memories are starting to come up. I'm like, wow, I remember when I was on Biltmore, we're down in Butterfly, we was at Miramar, all these great things. So all these things are kind of like popping out of the ground. Wow. My childhood wasn't as severe as I kind of like illustrated it to be. I had kind of made it, you know, which we do anyways, writers and storytellers, you make everything just more dramatic and more severe. But and not that it wasn't because I think it was. But all the other stuff kind of, you know, came to and it's been really, really nice.

20:23Rob Lowe:It's good to have you back up here.

20:25Josh Brolin:Thanks, man. Appreciate it.

20:35Rob Lowe:Here's Kristen Davis. Yes. Listen, you know, when I was young and I also, you know, for me, and I don't know how you would describe this for yourself because you had a different timeline, but for me, sobriety and acting kind of went together, right? Like the reason that I got sober young was because I wanted to act and I knew that I couldn't really do both at the rate that I was drinking, right? And it saved me in so many ways that I had a passion, that I had a dream, that I had something that was more important to me than drinking. So those two are intrinsically linked for me. And I can't really imagine like if I hadn't had the dream of acting.

21:12And you know, when I say dream of acting, I mean, like, Broadway was the height of that dream. You know what I'm saying? There was no, there was no film, television, whatever in that dream. But whatever it was, it was still a very lofty dream, you know, obviously. And drinking just didn't go. And so it gave me a reason to quit drinking. And so once I quit drinking, then I had to, of course, pursue my dream. And that was really all I cared about in the entire world, which I don't know if that was true for you or not. I mean, you seem much more well-rounded.

21:40Rob Lowe:I was not well-rounded because I know you, we've talked about this, that you knew you wanted to act from like the time you were like a little kid. And I was the same. So I knew it, I knew it nine or 10, same. And all I wanted to do, It would be like, you see those little kids out there dribbling basketballs 24-7, and they think they're going to the NBA? Yeah, I have one. That's what I was with acting. That's what I was, too. That's what I was, too. My journey was, I liked the drinking and acting, mixing it up. I loved it so much. I did. And then I realized it was messing up my personal life. oh good that's good it's sort of the same time I was 26 you were younger weren't you how I was younger I was like 23 when I started to try to stop it didn't happen right away you know but I I had the the insight that I needed to stop and then it took a while to actually do it you know because you don't get a lot of support when you're in your 20s especially back then it's a miracle it's a miracle that that I you know and you know my son John Owen I'm not speaking out of school he's open about it, but, you know, he stopped drinking at, uh, if you can imagine as the head of his frat social committee, senior year.

23:08Rob Lowe:And you want to talk about a, and living in the frat. Can you, can you imagine a, a talk about like setting yourself up for failure, but I, so I have amazing, like such empathy. Yeah. People amazing. Like, it's like, I want to say, yeah, but I, I, all those kids are drinking so much before it's like, they've had a career of it already. That's why they end up. It's true. It's true. And that was true for me where I was in South Carolina. There was just liquor everywhere. You know what I'm saying? It was just very, it was, yeah. Anyway, that, that stuff's sometimes scary.

23:49It's almost labor day, so fill the longer nights with perfect sleep night after night. Save up to$800 on Serta Perfect Sleeper X mattresses and adjustable base sets with a Q4 support system that helps relieve aches and back pain. Visit Serta.com to find a retailer near you. At DSW, we ask the important questions like, what shoes are you going to wear? Whether you're prepping for wedding season, festival season, or just planning the ultimate vacay, The right shoes can make or break an RSVP. So own the moment. You've got big plans and we've got just the shoes. At the perfect price, of course. Get ready to get ready with Designer Shoe Warehouse.

24:29Head to your DSW store or DSW.com today and let us surprise you. Walmart shoppers, meet the debit card design with you in mind. The Walmart money card offers up to$75 cash back on purchases at Walmart each year. early direct deposit, overdraft protection, and so much more. When Walmart is your everyday store, you need a card to match. That's the Walmart Money Card. Open your account today. The Walmart Money Card is issued by Green Dot Bank, member FDIC. Fees, terms, and conditions apply. Visit walmartmoneycard.com to learn more.

25:15Bobby Lee. I've been sober, yeah, two and a half years, maybe over that. And it's great. I've done it differently this time.

25:22Rob Lowe:It takes what it takes. Some people I was lucky. I it took for me the first time. I know plenty of people that have multiple like stops and starts and there's no one way to do it. Rob, I had 13 years at one point and then 17 years at one point. That's amazing. And if I, you know, I mean, can I ask you something? Yeah, go ahead. Okay. So you have 13 years at one point. You loaded. You have 17, you say at 17 years of sobriety, What goes into your mind? The first time I relived to 13 years was I got silver when I was 17. That's unbelievable. Okay, so now I'm 30 and I was on a show, right? So then I relapsed then.

25:58And that was then. That was me going, I was too young. Yeah, sure. There's just no way. And then once you do it, the first two days, you're like, oh, this gets scary. This is real. Like it just dawns on you that, oh, my God, I have this disease. And then that was a year. I stayed out for a year. It was terrible. And then the 17-year one was not going to meetings for like five years. When people say, you know, because, you know, you get in a rhythm and you get some time behind you and you're like, you know what, I can do this on my own. And at the end of the day, you can't because just one day your mind just switches.

26:35Oh, my God. You cannot believe it. You literally think to yourself, am I going to do this? Oh, my God, I'm doing this. what the fuck, I'm doing this. And then you make a decision. In fact, the last time I went out, you know Mike Binder?

26:53Josh Brolin:Yeah. So I went to one of his meetings. It was like a men's meeting and it was a speaker meeting. And, you know, you go up and share. And I literally announced to this whole group of men. I go, hey guys, I'm going up to Thursday.

27:07Rob Lowe:You planned it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You made an appointment. Yeah, and I go, after the meeting, you can say whatever you want. to convince me, but I guarantee you I'm going out Thursday. And so after the meeting, you know, I get a surrounding of men. And I did what, you know, I did what people told me to do is to be honest. Yes. It didn't work because I. You had it on your, you had it on the calendar. Yeah, I had it on the calendar. And all these men were like, look at the, you know, look at the consequences. You're doing well. You know what I mean? You know, he gave me all the positives and this and that.

27:40And once you make a decision, it's over, I think. The voice The voice had already won The voice had won And I remember I flew to Hawaii Thursday Because I knew I was shooting Magnum P.I. Well that would make me drink

27:56Rob Lowe:I'd start drinking too I did like 14 episodes One of my favorite shows Anyway So I was at the Aliaks And I remember I got like These gummies And I took them on the flight So you went out with gummies. That was the weapon of choice. Yeah. And I laughed through the whole flight just giggling. You know what I mean? And then it was 17 years of sobriety. That's unbelievable. Right? And then that whole – Dude, I remember also being on set and people giving me pens and just shooting high. What are pens? Like marijuana pens. Oh, see, I'm such an old timer. They didn't – Oh, you can vape it. I do know that, but it's like I've missed so much that I don't know what the kids are doing today.

28:48But I'm telling you, Rob, within a month, you're back in it and it's so scary. It's like you cannot believe it. And, you know, you forget about it when you're sober for a long time. But when you're doing it, you go, I remember now and I remember why I got sober because this is terrible. and I think what it is is that you have no connection to anybody the spirituality is gone you know I mean there's no reason to live really you know and you know and then also the people around you quickly become their diseases come out they're enabling and they're you know I mean and you can see it you know people's you know and then you kind of go oh I'm back where I was And now, if I didn't get sober when I was 17 and all those chunks of sobriety, I wouldn't be here today because the reason why I did stand-up was because I was sober.

29:44And, like, I was, you know, at six years of sobriety, I went, you know what? I'm brave enough, and I have a strong enough spiritual foundation to have faith, and I just did it. You know what I mean? And, you know, I had all these men, sober men around me supporting me. And it was, you know what I mean? Without that, I wouldn't be here. So, like, I think these chunks of sobriety really did help. Am I being too serious? No, not at all.

30:07Rob Lowe:No. No. I felt like it might be, oh, all right. This is great. Yeah, so then I just want to, it's just a forewarning to people listening, is that no matter how much you think you have your shit together, I think you have to stay connected to just going to meetings and having a sponsor. And, you know, I mean, I go to my two or three week, but let me tell you, I'll tell you this. I did a movie in Montana a couple of weeks ago, and I would take an Uber into the fucking planes into a school where it's all these old white people with, like, oxygen tanks and, like – and I'm sitting there in this fucking meeting with a bunch of old white people that I've never seen an Asian in an A meeting.

30:49And they were, like, kind of going, oh, young man. You know what I mean? Are you from around here? You know what I mean? And they were like, yeah, you know, I've got some time, but I just needed to go to a meeting. and I'm willing to do really kind of anything to at least check in, you know? That's great. Do you go to meetings on the road or no?

31:05Rob Lowe:See, I'm getting— Should I not even talk about it? No, no, no. Are you out? No, no, no. Okay. No, what's great is I'm probably getting what I need to hear, right? Because I have to be in a certain amount of psychic pain or anxiety before I go, okay, God, all right, let's go to a meeting. You know what I mean? Which is a dangerous place to be. I think there's a reason that I had you here, that you came here today. You're like, dude, no one's too busy for a meeting. But you forget, though, Rob, why we're there in the first place. And it's not for us. Right. It's for the other – your fellow man. Right.

31:38It's for the guy that's suffering. You know, I started my own meeting in L.A. for comics. And me and my other friend Brittany started it. And we wanted a safe space for – because, you know, when comics – when you read a comic, get a DUI, you know what I mean? and you approach them, their immediate reaction is just, you know, the walls come up. They're like, I'm never going to go to a meeting, right? But if you go, you know, it's a safe, it's all comics. You know what I mean? And it's at a comedy club. So if for... I took a trip at a comedy club once. Really? Comedy store?

32:17Rob Lowe:Comedy store. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You did? Yeah, I did. Back in the day. Back in the day, yeah. And so it makes them feel safe. And so we've been able to help a couple of people, you know, and it's just, sorry, I just have water in my lungs. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm totally fine. Yeah, I'm fine. I'm having secondhand anxiety with the story. Why? Because I get it. I can understand it. Why? Why? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, yeah, yeah. I'm like, look at what I'm doing. Yeah, yeah. What are you doing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm making origami out of this cord that I'm holding. I'm under so much stress from that story.

32:51I mean, you seem very grounded. Fine. I'm just giving you a fucking...

32:54Rob Lowe:No, and look, I do tons. Therapy, I think, is a huge part of it. Huge. Huge. I don't know how people do it and keep it going alone without that component. I don't see long-term how people do it. My opinion is there should be some changes to the big book. You know what I mean? Oh, well. To catch up. It's funny you said it. Yeah, yeah. Here's where they really need to do it on the traditions. because there's a world where you're supposed to have personal anonymity, and this is a direct quote, at the level of press. Radio and films. Radio and films. Well, I call bullshit on that because I think people need to see that there's hope.

33:35Rob Lowe:Yeah. They may be able to go look and go, hey, if that guy can do it or that girl can do it, I can do it. Yeah, but I'm allowed to do it on a podcast like this. Because it doesn't say personal. They didn't even mention podcasts. They didn't even know they insisted. I'm just going to name everybody who's in Alcoholics. We're allowed to talk about it, about our own, right? I'm just not allowed to talk about yours. I guess you're right. But I've known people like, personally, you're sending me out there talking around? Really? Because here's the theory. If the theory is, and by the way, I made my decision with this a long time ago, but I'm publicly known to be in recovery.

34:10Rob Lowe:If I were to slip, since everybody knows I'm in recovery, they would go, see, it doesn't work. I knew it. That's the argument against it, which I go bullshit on. I think that the upside of sharing your strength and hope and recovery outweighs the downside with the notion that everybody is fallible. And some people get it for a while and some people don't. And it's a process. My theory is a little different, though. I think that I talk about it because every time that I've gone out, it weighs on me that I'm known to be a sober guy, right? It weighs on me that half my friends are people in the program.

34:59You know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. So it's like by me talking about it, it drives me faster back into the rooms.

35:05Rob Lowe:By the way, here's what's weird. As we're doing this, I just got a text from my sober buddy group. They must know we're talking about this. Oh, that's cool. That's cool.

35:22Rob Lowe:Casey Affleck. I mean, by the way, a lot of time in the psychiatrist chair. Is that behind you or are you still putting in those hours? I put in the hours, bro. Put in the hours every Tuesday. And it's for me, you know, because I've been sober a long time now. I'm sober 34 years. And one of the things I know is that's my insurance policy. Like that's, that's what, um, I've got to keep that strong even when I feel like I don't need it. And the good news is, is this many years in, I, I, I, I'm, it's in my DNA. I don't have to maintain it like I used to, but I still once a week, you know, do something related to therapy slash sobriety.

36:10Rob Lowe:And, and I try to help others who are coming in. I really get a lot out of that because it reminds me of like, it's no fun out there for alcoholics who are still doing it. It's not fucking fun. And the other thing I'm really aware of is people who get a little bit of time and, you know, think they can go back and try it again. And usually the results are even worse. Yeah. I find that the sober people are some of the people I'm closest to now. Oh, really? Yeah, for sure. especially at this at this age you know they're people that have come through something difficult they're maintaining they've you know they're I don't know why I can't I wouldn't describe it I mean I've been I've been I've got 11 years 12 years oh wow so um well because dude there's nothing better than a sober alcoholic nothing I'm sorry Nothing.

37:06Rob Lowe:Because let's face it, an alcoholic is hilarious, fun, ready to go, wants to do their shit. And you take away the destruction part of it. And it's fun for people to be around.

37:31Rob Lowe:Here's Rob Delaney. I am days away from my 20th anniversary of sobriety. And I know that you're a sober guy. So since it was so close to my anniversary, I was like, yeah, I'd like to talk to Rob Lowe. And happy birthday to you. Keep coming back. It works if you work it. Yeah, I love talking to people who are in our little club. I love it. I just and I knew that you had you got 20 years, man. That's not nothing. Man, it's crazy. Just bananas. And obviously a life changer for you. Very, very dramatically. Yeah. I mean, 20 years ago, I was, you know, in jail in a wheelchair because I had driven a car into a building in L.A.

38:21And thank God no one else got hurt. No one else was involved. Just me and a building. And yeah, coming to surrounded by cops and doctors and being like, so what's what's going on, folks? What's what's happening here? So a blackout. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I had drank into a blackout and then gone to bed for the night, which is really terrifying. And then at some point got up and thought, you know what, I should go for a little drive. And yeah, I drove into a building, I think, near the intersection of Pico and Genesee. And you should put a plaque there. Yeah. But yeah, then, you know, a judge said, hey, man, you should very seriously consider a residential rehab facility unless you'd like to go to jail for longer.

39:16And I said, rehab sounds great. And I was wondering, yeah, I spent I was there for 28 days, as is often the case with folks like like us. And man, oh, Christ, it was the best.

39:31Rob Lowe:See, I love that you're saying this because that's what I say when people ask me about rehab. I loved every minute of it because I felt like, oh, so this is why I am doing what I'm doing. And oh, so that's a great tool. It was literally like every day I had these epiphanies. And I was always a pleasure to have in class and school. I really studied. I was really diligent. So smart people were teaching me about a way of life that I didn't know anything about and no one had ever talked to me about. And I just – I never felt like I was – like I was somewhere where I didn't want to be or it was counting days to get out.

40:17Rob Lowe:But the thing is, is you – clearly you had that one thing that you have to have going in for success, which is you were done and you were ready to learn and move on. You didn't have any illusions still, did you? Or did you? No, I didn't. I was really lucky because, you know, both my arms were broken. I had to have surgery on both of them. And so I was, you know, really temporarily crippled and needed help to do stuff. And so that was super humbling. and then at the same time because of the car crash that I didn't even remember you know that's when I realized that my drinking was you know potentially I mean that's the type of thing where you could kill a family you know by driving running them off the road or something so and I had wanted I had tried to quit many times before and but this was but just because I was like miserable or my girlfriend broke up with me or, you know, I had health issues from alcohol, you know, small stuff.

41:29But when I realized that I could kill people, that's when I said, you know what, I actually don't want to drink that much. And so I, yeah, was very, very lucky.

41:42Rob Lowe:Did you ever have that moment where you're like, wait a minute, so this mean if I ever get married I want to have a champagne toast with my bride or if I ever have a kid I'm not gonna have a glass of whiskey to celebrate what kind of life is this gonna be early on early on I had the thought maybe if I get out of here and this is so delusional because at the time I didn't have a nickel and I was like unemployable it's such a disaster but this is my thought process. If I get out of here and I'm sober for a long time and also become quite successful, then maybe like when I'm in my sixties, I could hire a bodyguard to protect other people from me.

42:28And then I could drink like that. So in the early months of sobriety, I thought like, maybe, maybe I could do that. I don't want to do that anymore, which is, I think it's, it's sort of good that i admit that because it goes to show you you don't have to have a perfect game plan for the next five decades it's just one step at a time yeah i had a psycho thought that's

42:53Rob Lowe:why they say one that's why they say one day at a time because that that thinking is look it's better than nothing at least in that thinking you're like i'm gonna be sober till i'm 60 at least yeah it's you know not bad so now you're in london the the recovery world is still I'm just going to say it. It's still not as embedded in the culture there. What could we invent right now? That's our version of the pub. Okay. So for me, I'm happy. Like I'm one of those people who I don't do it often because I have kids and the career that I enjoy. So I'm not out a lot sort of extracurricularly, but whenever I do do it, I enjoy myself, but I will often leave early, not because I don't want to be where the fun is, but a bar or a party or wherever the stuff is, they don't have iced coffee, which I will absolutely drink at midnight and have no problem going to sleep.

43:55Yeah. And they don't have ice cream, which if I could just have a milkshake while you're having your fourth IPA, I'll stay. So I think for me, they don't need a separate thing, but if bars had coffee on tap and good ice cream, like the mug of Ben & Jerry's Netflix and Chilled that I just ate before I did this podcast, then I'd stick around. So I think if places just broadened their horizons a little bit, I'm staying.

44:31Rob Lowe:I like it. Why don't we do that? We should open a our version of Wahlburgers. Yeah. If Mark Wahlberg can open a chain of hamburger restaurants, you and I can open a... I think so. We gotta name it, though. Rob's. Yeah, Rob's. Well, it has to be Rob's with an S because there's two of us. Yeah, Rob's. And they're like, you put the apostrophe in the wrong place. And then we come around the corner together, arm and arm. We're like, no, we didn't. We did it.

45:06Rob Lowe:Here's Nikki Glaser. I eventually just drank and then I stopped drinking and then I stopped having sex when I stopped drinking. And then eventually I think I was able to do it again because I, because yeah, I became prude again once I quit drinking. Yeah, for sure. And then it took like a certain guy to like, it took intimacy, you know, it took emotional intimacy for me to be able to do that again. And I'm not someone who can even today have like a one night stand or anything like that. I remember because you and I are both in recovery. No, you know, no drinking, no drugs for us. I smoke a little pot.

45:42I want to be honest.

45:43Rob Lowe:Oh, California sober. Yeah. Yeah, that one. I'm trying to stop, but it's the last one. California sober. I don't do it that often. I feel like like a true addict. I feel like I have control over it right now, but it's always a slippery slope, but it's always one that like comes in and out of my life. It's out of my life right now, thank God, because I would be more meandering and not able to find my words on this podcast. That's what it does to me. It's like in the short term, it makes me feel great. And then the long term, I become a real dumb dumb. Yeah, I don't think any of the great orators were pot smokers somehow.

46:19No, unfortunately not. And I keep looking for them for some example that it's okay for me to do it. You know, like you're always looking for a reason to normalize it. Well, Snoop Dogg, you know, like he's the pothead that you see is so prolific and still such a great musician and still so on and funny, but he's an anomaly. I mean, I can be high and function pretty well high, but the long-term effects are just memory loss in the middle of sentences. I mean, look, there are people that,

46:47Rob Lowe:I mean, look, Willie Nelson, great, amazing. We should only, I mean, what a career, what an icon. It's Willie. It's Snoop. And then very quickly, it gets into Cheech and Chong. And you go, I don't know. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like. Yes, there's a drop off. Yeah. I can't do it. But I have depression and it helps with my depression. Oh, right. Like it instantly gets me from feeling so, so, so sad and in the dumps. And I smoke a little weed and I just instantly feel anxious. And that's a different feeling than depressed. I go from wanting to die to feeling like I don't want to die. There's like no in between.

47:25Rob Lowe:But with the caveat, I'm not going to do it. Nobody needs to get worried out there. But the notion that there's new pot out there. Yeah. And it's legal. That is kind of like designer pot. Can you, if I were to walk into a dispensary and go, I want something that's going to make me want to listen to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. Cuddle, have sex without any paranoia whatsoever guaranteed. Could they do that? I don't think so. You know, I really don't think so because I think that a bud tender would tell you differently and give you something. But I think we're all just so different and that it's definitely a psycho something.

48:14It's a psychotic drug. Psychotropic. Like it makes people lose their mind. Yeah, psychotropic. Thank you. Um, I could have come up with that word if I didn't smoke power a week ago, but I did. Um, so I got halfway there. Um, but yeah, I think it's, I, I, I really don't think, um, it's something that, uh, anyone needs to justify doing now if you haven't picked it up in a while. Not that you were doing that, but I think there are a lot of people that now think, well, I can engineer it now to not give me the paranoia. I don't think, I haven't come across weed that I can depend upon. Like, this is exactly how it's going to make me feel every single time.

48:46It's always a crapshoot, which I kind of love.

48:48Rob Lowe:No, not me. I love the opportunity of it. You did? I tried to smoke it so many times to be cool. I mean, I grew up in Malibu in the 70s, and we were smoking pot at the bus stop. I wasn't, but the cool kids were. We're smoking pot at the bus stop in seventh grade, and just, they'd get up, they'd surf, they'd have sand in their hair, they'd still be, their clothes would be a little bit wet, of course, they'd been up since four, and they're smoking pot before 7, you know, 7.30 in the morning on their way to school. That's what the cool kids did where I grew up. Yeah. And I tried to be cool. And all it made me was fall asleep in history class and then be paranoid.

49:30Rob Lowe:And I hated it. Hated it. Yeah. Oh, good. That's such a good thing. Like, don't you like when there's a drug where you're like, I'm not craving doing it? It's nice that there's one. Because like, that's me for Coke. Like Coke, I'm just like, it's never, I did it once and was like, no, this isn't my thing. And Adderall, I'm just like, no, I don't want to write a book report right now. I want to party. And I think that weed though, weed does do that. Weed does not make me tired. I would never, a lot of people smoke it or eat it to fall asleep. Weed makes me really alert and want to chat and work on things.

50:04I think of, I think so many projects that I am involved with currently have begun because I smoked a little too much weed and I was on an elliptical machine

50:11Rob Lowe:and I just start sending off emails to my manager. I'm like, I have an idea for this thing. It's a big idea. And then the next day I'm not high and I have to go do that. And I'm like, oh shit. Wait a minute. The notion of smoking pot and getting on an elliptical? Yeah, man, because the music sounds better. I can pretend I'm like in a movie. It takes me out of the pain of like, I have to work out. It motivates me. Weed motivates me. I clean my room. I like get things done. I like to go. I like to work out. You're sure you're not smoking? And I think it makes me a better athlete. You're not smoking crack mistakenly and thinking it's weed.

50:44Oh, shit. Okay.

50:46Rob Lowe:Weed motivates me? It totally does. But that is funny about the crack thing because I like smoking weed. People are like, just switch to edibles because I had vocal cord surgery last year. So I should not be smoking anything. It's a horrible idea for me. But I like it right away. I want the feeling immediately. I want to take shots. Like, I don't want to like sip on wine. Like, I want to feel high right away. So for me, it's the same as like when people, I don't use an oven, I use a microwave. Like I don't like, a joint to me is like, oh, well, let's bake this thing and wait all day. It's for me, I want to get high right away.

51:21And, but I was, I reached, I remember one of my bottoms and this is my new like kind of rule for myself is I don't smoke out of pipes or bongs. Like I have to roll a joint and not, I have to roll a joint, I just buy a pre-roll. But like, it has to look like cool because I was outside a comedy show once and I was like, I want to get a little high before I go on stage. mainly because I was like not feeling anxious anymore on stage. And I think anxiety makes me work. It makes me care. It makes me like get my notes together. It makes me go, oh no, this might be bad. And that is what has been such a motivator in my life.

51:52So when I got used to doing comedy, it didn't give me that fear anymore and that anxiety and that adrenaline spike. I would smoke weed so that I'd be on stage like, I'm so fucking high right now. I don't even know what I'm doing. I can't, this is like a tightrope walk. Like this is, and then I'd feel so accomplished that if I killed at the end of it, because it was hard and I like to feel good after doing hard things. But I remember going out on Hollywood Boulevard to like get high before the show. And I'm like trying to block the wind, like lighting this pipe. And I turn around and there is a crackhead hitting the same exact pipe I have, doing the same motion of like huddling, trying to block the wind with his coat.

52:26And I was like, there's no difference between us right now. I am now being antisocial on Hollywood Boulevard, which is very dangerous. The strip I was on, I was in a puddle of diarrhea, probably like, you're standing upon someone's star and, you know - Let's hope it wasn't mine. Where is yours?

52:45Rob Lowe:I have a good location. Okay, good. It's all about location. I don't mean to interrupt your story, but having your star is all about - Well, where is it? If they put you in front of the, you know, the 7-Eleven, you're kind of screwed. I'm in front of Musso and Franks. So I'm in - Oh. Prime, prime, prime real estate. You could eat off that thing. That's right. You could totally - That's good. eat off it's clean anyway oh great location no but that was just a a moment for me where i'm like this is i this is something that is anti-social and um and they i don't want to be this guy you know and uh this is there's really no difference between how i need this right now i don't like to need anything so um although i still dabble in it i won't i won't hit pipes anymore it was like too it was too easy but i do like that i don't want to take an edible i don't want to wait two hours and like feel a little buzz.

53:34Do you, I mean, do you relate to that as an addict? Like you want it right away?

53:37Rob Lowe:Well, here's the thing. It's funny that you mentioned pipes because again, going back to my days of being in seventh grade and wanting to be cool with the Malibu surfers. I bought a pipe and carried it in my pocket to school just to have it. I had no intention of actually using it. Rob, that's so cute. It's really sad. You were just waiting for someone to be like, I have all this weed and I have no way to smoke it. And you go, I have a way. And then you pull out your shiny pipe that you've just been kind of playing with in your pocket all day. That's right. And you went and you spent your little allowance on it.

54:15That's so cute. It's really - Just trying to fit in. Just trying - Were you not popular at that age? No. Did you feel like an outcast?

54:24Rob Lowe:I didn't surf. I didn't know anything about beach volleyball, which it turns out is a thing. God, you were like living in the Barbie movie. I really was. It really feels like it. Wow. Yeah. Why didn't you surf? What's wrong with you, Rob? Because I was, well, I just arrived from Ohio. Got it. So I literally was like an alien from the Midwest transplanted to Malibu. Oh my God. Just turning 13. Oh boy. I didn't know. I mean, I had my long Levi's on during the summer. It was bad. It was really bad. I'm from Ohio too, but I moved to St. Louis from Ohio. So it was a lateral shift. St. Louis is the same.

55:06It's the same. It's all the same.

55:08Rob Lowe:Yeah, no. So I, so yeah, pipes, you know. No. No. No pipes. It's not a good look. I'm 39. It's just like, it's just time to not, like, I don't want to be a, I don't want to be an adult who like depends on a substance to like function. But I also think that something that has really helped me with my pot consumption, if there's anyone listening who struggles in a similar way I do, whether it's like vaping or whatever you do, whenever I am like ashamed of what I'm doing while I'm doing it, like if I reach for that joint and I haven't had one for two weeks, but I reach for it and I'm like, oh, you fucking idiot.

55:44You're a loser. Like I'm going to smoke the whole joint. But if I just go, looks like someone needs a little something. Like you're struggling right now. You don't have, it's not that you're weak, but like this is something you need and you can't help it and it's not your fault. I tend to just take a puff or two. You know, I think the anxiety added on of hating myself for doing the thing makes me do it that much more. 100%. So I try to be a little, I try to enjoy it. Like I always tell the people that are still drinking that still go like, oh, I gotta quit. I go, just enjoy it while you're doing it because it is, there's a, it is kind of awesome.

56:19Like I, it'll ruin your life. But while you're, if you're still doing it, if you're not quitting yet, don't beat yourself up every time you do it. Fucking enjoy it. Try to have, because you're going to quit eventually. You'll never do it again. And so like, yeah, enjoy it while you can.

56:33Rob Lowe:I feel that way. It's funny. I find the same phenomenon. Like I'm trying to cut sugar. And which really is the real heroin of life. Absolutely. And if, and my Achilles is ice cream. So if I hit the Haagen-Dazs and feel bad about it, I'm eating, I find I'm eating all of that serving. Yeah, because the only thing to calm yourself is the ice cream. Yeah, if I go, you know what? I'm gonna have a little bit of this. I kind of, if I go with it, and then I can put it down. I can kind of begin to take it or leave it. But there's like, when the shame button gets hit. Yep. I think there's something about that that kind of supercharges the desire.

57:21Rob Lowe:For sure. Well, because it's, it's, yeah, I got this whole theory actually from, I was going for a while to meetings for food addictions type stuff. And this one woman shared a story of, you know, wanting to avoid sugar. She had the Oreos in the car. It was for her family. And she goes, I'll just have one, you know, she's at a stoplight. And then she just feels so bad about the one that she's, now she's like beating herself up. and now the stress comes down, the anxiety, that feeling that you try to suppress with your addiction. And the only thing she has in the car to soothe herself is that. She can't go for a walk.

57:54She can't take, like, that was, so don't, when you have shame about the thing that you're using, that you already have shame about, you're going to do, and then she finishes the whole sleeve, you know, or the whole thing of Oreos, when really she could have just said, oh, it's bad that I had one or two. Or like, you know what, I needed that. Just be nice to yourself, and then you won't hit the bottom of the carton with the spoon. Well, the other thing is it triggers.

58:21Rob Lowe:But the reoccurring theme on this podcast is clearly the use of the word fuck, so I apologize, too. There's a lot of people who listen that don't like it when I swear. I'm very, very sorry. I'm trying to avoid it as well, too, so I do apologize because it is so harsh. And I watch some of my stand-up clips that they send me to post on my socials, and I'm like, can you believe me? I'm foul-mouthed. Like I'm starting to get a little prudish in my older age of like, you can say bang instead of F, you know? Like I don't always have to go for that harsh word. And it means so much more when you use it less.

58:54Rob Lowe:The problem is, is like what I was saying about going back to the sugar is once you have that one, it also not only does it trigger the shame, but it triggers a case of the fuckets. And that, do you know what I mean? I mean, there's no other way to say it. The efforts doesn't really work. The bang it. Bang it does not work. No, it doesn't work. It just doesn't work. So once I get a case that I'm very, not anymore. I've done a lot of work. I've done all the things that you do. Yeah, yeah. I've done a lot of work. But in the day and when I'm not at my best, I can absolutely be triggered into the fuck it's.

59:32Rob Lowe:And that is a super dangerous place to be. It really is. I go there a lot when I get depressed and I know all the tools to get me out of my depression, but sometimes I just want to lean into it. Do you ever take the meds? That'll make me feel better because I go, the meds are just lying to me. They're making me just see the world through rose colored glasses. I see it for what it is. I don't want to be deluded into thinking that life is worth living. I know the truth and it's all bullshit. You know, like I like feeling depressed sometimes and I don't want to do the right thing. And so that's a dangerous thing too.

1:00:09I have the efforts about depression.

1:00:12Rob Lowe:You don't have to answer this. It's personal. Are you on an SSRI or a med? No, I'm on ADD meds, but I take them. I think my depression, I've consulted many a specialist and I think it's, SSRIs have never really helped me with my depression, but ADD meds have. But it's legit speed, man. Like it's, there's no different. It makes me feel so good and like everything's going to be okay that I question it and I don't like it. And I feel like I'm doping. Like I feel like I'm Lance Armstrong in life. I feel like I'll be stripped of my medals. I don't want, cause when I take an ADD med, I can get everything done.

1:00:53All my emails answered. I love myself. I'm accepting of all the things that I thought I was, that made me so worthless early on in the day. I'm excited to get out of bed. It feels, it feels like I'm cheating. And I think a lot of people that have ADD struggle with taking meds because they feel so amazing and they, but it feels a little euphoric to me. So I have that kind of, I have guilt about how good it makes me feel because I'm so used to not feeling that way. And yeah, I struggle taking it, even though it makes me really productive and really happy.

1:01:26Rob Lowe:Well, I know that if somebody comes and finds out that I've been taking SSRIs and doping my life and they take away my medals, they take away my E-Channel Golden Hanger Award for Best Outfit on the Red Carpet, I will be mad. I will. I'll be mad. I'm just going to say I'll be mad. You're right. It's like, first of all, I have no medals to be stripped of. I think I won Most Dedicated Performer in eighth grade, which is just such a low blow. Amazing. We have to give her something. She worked really hard, which is kind of my MO. But yeah, it just feels, so that's what I'm on. And I take them as needed on those really like low, low, low days where I, you know, I'm thinking of horrible thoughts and then I just have to take them.

1:02:12But yeah, it's good. I'm looking into doing psychedelics, something to -

1:02:16Rob Lowe:Yeah, okay, so let's talk about ayahuasca. I always talk about - Have you done it? I have not. Me neither. You know why? I'm not, I don't feel, look, listen, to be clear, you do the California sober. I do the traditional. I don't, I do nothing. Nothing. Mind or mood altering. Nothing. Yeah, so that's psychedelics too. Right, so it's psychedelics. But there is a movement of how that really is, can help, particularly with trauma. Yeah. We know that that is a big thing with people who are suffering from PTSD and trauma. The other thing is microdosing, which everybody is doing. And everybody is swearing by that.

1:02:57Rob Lowe:Like, I'm on mushrooms. Yeah, all day long. I've did that for a little bit. And it does make, it makes trees look prettier. Like, you'll just start staring at a tree and being like, that is so beautiful. Oh, wait, but that's actual mushrooms. That's like mushroom mushrooms. But it's just slight. Like, you don't even remember that you took it. And it's not like it's like starting to drip or, you know, there's not like movement with pulsate. Yeah, it's just, it just is like, wow, you just appreciate, you feel like closer to God, which is sometimes I don't even think that there is one. And so it's, there's got to be something to it.

1:03:31So I plan on doing ayahuasca and puking my trauma into a bucket at some point, but I just never have time to do it. It's like, I got to schedule a facelift. I got to schedule an ayahuasca trip. Like, I wonder if I can do them on the same journey.

1:03:45Rob Lowe:I think you could. I think there's a great plastic surgeon in the rainforest. You go down there and get it all. Yeah, I'd love to get, yeah, a facelift in a yurt. I think that's the way to do it. Facelift in a yurt should be maybe the title of this episode. I like it. Let's do it. Facelift in a yurt. Yeah, it's all upcoming for me.

1:04:14You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Sean Doherty, with help from associate producer, Sean Calvano. Research by Jeff Fox. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel. Our executive producers are Rob Lowe for Low Profile and Nick Liao, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross for Team Coco. Booking by Catherine Cook. Music by Devin Bryant. Special thanks to Hidden City Studios. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally.

1:05:15We'll be right back. to learn more. Traditional home security only alerts you after a break-in, and that's too late. SimpliSafe is changing that.

1:05:25Josh Brolin:Stop. This is SimpliSafe. Police are on the way. We don't just alert. We stop crime before it starts. SimpliSafe. Plan starting around a dollar a day. Save 60 % on a new system with professional monitoring during our 20th anniversary sale at simplisafe.com slash sxm. Outdoor deterrence requires a SimpliSafe Active Guard outdoor protection plan starting at$49.99 a month. Visit SimpliSafe.com slash licenses for alarm license information. Tennessee 2012.