The Parent Trap: Conversations About Parenting (w/ Drew Barrymore, Lisa Kudrow, Mark Cuban, Hilary Swank, and More)

20:55You can't open up an account. I'm not going to feature you on mine. I want you to be kids. I want you to be safe. I want you to be protected. I am so conservative compared to my upbringing. I showed up at like a baby mommy and me group when I first had Olive, my first daughter, who's turning 10. And everyone at the mommy and me group was a somebody. And I left knowing I would never go back. I was like, nope, I can't. I'm sorry. I went back to the gym class in a mini mall for the next four years. And not one person there did I know or recognize. And I was like, this is much more my speed.

21:41Rob Lowe:It's why I ended up moving out of L.A. when I was, you know, I'd just been sober, you know, three or four, I don't know, two or three, whatever it was, a few years, newly married to Cheryl. We were expecting our first baby. And I was talking to somebody about, like, education in L.A. and what you do and what it is. And they were saying, oh, preschools are there's a thing. I mean, you better get in line for a preschool now. And I remember thinking, that was my reaction. But it only got worse when they said, but to get into the right preschools, really, you should talk to Mike Ovitz. And I remember thinking, if I need to talk to one of my fucking agents about getting into a preschool, and I literally left L.A.

22:28Rob Lowe:over it because I had a vision. I'm really good at seeing the road ahead. Every once in a while I'll have like a snapshot. It doesn't happen all the time. but when it does it's crystal clear and it always is right and i had this vision of myself in la coaching little league which i did eventually and loved it in santa barbara though the fantasy but if i coached it in la i would be like there's the president of the studios kid and there's there's this writer that i'm interested in his next script kid yeah and then there's my coaster and there's like i just want to be with you i don't want that kind of pressure well it's also makes you feel like you're on, you know, like I don't want to talk shop.

23:10I don't want to, I don't want to deal with that. I'm in my sweatpants and I just, I guess I've never really felt that comfortable with people. I sometimes chalk it down to this term, a mover and shaker. Like there's movers and shakers and they kind of got business and they got goals and they're going to make deals and like there's an agenda there and like they're going to make it happen. And it's not wrong. Like movers and shakers get the job.

23:41Rob Lowe:Make the world go around in a way. Yeah. They get the job done. I sort of have an admiration. I'm not a schmoozer. I cannot live like that. And there's so much of our job that I want to be fully invested in that when When I'm in my downtime, I'm a lot about battery recharging and no bullshit. Totally. But it's so funny. I've always seen this counterpart of myself in you. We have been born and raised into this job. So when I had my kids, and having done this our whole lives, this job was always on the front burner. Because it was my life. It was my friendship. E.T. taught me that you could create a family if you didn't really have a family.

24:35It was me and my mom, very chaplain and the kids, single mom. She worked. I worked. She went and did Ron Howard's Night Shift in the evenings playing like hooker number 12 while I was doing E.T. during the day. Like we were buddies. We were not mother and daughter. And E.T. taught me that you could have a family. But then thank God for Steven Spielberg sticking around because it also taught me that once again families can go away. So I kind of had to find like how do I keep relationships going? How do I retain relationships with people? I don't want to just disappear into the ether. and I found a lot of my friends along the way and started a production company when I was 19 which was just a complete MacGuffin for a family.

25:29And Chris Miller, who I started, is my brother and Nancy Javonen is my sister and that's the facts today. I'm as close with them now as I was then.

25:47Rob Lowe:Natasha Leggero. Yeah, I think I really did lose some of my sense of humor when I had a kid. And that's what my book is about in a way is like getting back to this pre-motherhood personality. And it might be different for mothers than it is for fathers. You know, like I used to be someone who had so much joie de vivre. And I was always like going to Africa, going to Thailand at the drop of a hat, traveling here, traveling there, you know, white water rafting without a helmet. So I still looked cute, you know, like I would do whatever. And now I'm just like terrified. Like I, you know, I think the pandemic obviously didn't help having a young child in this like time in history.

26:24And, you know, might have fucked with my head a little bit, but I definitely have lost some of my sense of humor. and it sucks and it's hard on my marriage. And, you know, cause that's not who my husband married necessarily. And, you know, it's, it's definitely a process and I'm working on it and, you know, it's a challenge. But yeah, I want to get that back.

26:46Rob Lowe:It happens. Look, you are, you are literally physically changed. Like guys don't go through that. We don't physically change when, when kids come into the world. We, we, we mentally and emotionally change, But you're chemically, it's a whole different thing for women. And you see it all the time. You see. And I think it's super appropriate and the way nature intended it to be. You know, maternal instincts are probably not comedic instincts. They're probably very at odds with each other. Right. And I think also like a challenge for women is like my like making time for yourself. Like my husband, he just instinctively follows his passions.

27:28He's like always surfing. You know, he gets into like electric bikes. He gets into like kickboxing. He he's he's camping. He's always like following his DJing. He's like always following his passions. Whereas like my free time is usually spent like picking up the slack in a way. And I and I think it's I probably in a martyr sense, you know, agree that I will do it like, you know, the woman's in charge of the scheduling. And then I'm also happen to be packing her lunches and buying the food. And, you know, all of a sudden it's like my time is spent doing all of this prep. Invisible labor, it's called, you know, and it's it's but he's but he's so cool.

28:11He's always like, do your own thing. It's just getting out of the mindset that I, you know, yeah, I should do my own thing and let the other things just fall where they where they go and everything will be fine.

28:21Rob Lowe:It makes perfect sense to me. I mean, you know, the it's also the thing that you people struggle with where there's the now the kids are in the life is like keeping the romance and the marriage alive and putting you yourself as a couple, you know, first, because without it's like it's like the old thing of the airplane where the oxygen mask comes on. They say, put it on yourself. They don't go look around the cabin, see if you see someone in need and put it on them. They don't say that. They say put it on you. Because if you aren't taking care of you, then you're no good to anybody. Got to put those masks on.

28:58I like to hear how you parent. I wouldn't have pegged you as a strict dad. I would have pegged you more as like a Malibu fun, give the kid some cocaine dad.

29:07Rob Lowe:Yo, they were there. Oh, my God. It's a wonder. What I witnessed as a kid in Malibu, it is, I think everybody in them has their, the story they were truly meant to tell. And I've kicked around in different iterations and I wrote a little bit about it in my books. But the real story, it's kind of like, I mean, like Boogie Nights meets Euphoria of Malibu in 1975 and what it was like to be a teenager is it's not what anybody thinks. It was mental. hole. That's the thing. I didn't grow up in that kind of I grew up in the Midwest and was straight edge and sober until I was like 30. So I actually feel like I afforded myself more time.

29:56Like I never had that thing where like I went too far and I woke up and it was rock bottom. And, you know, it was like it never really accelerated. Yeah. Yeah. So I feel very lucky in a way. I almost want to tell my daughter, like, you know, your dad did this and he was a drug addict by the time he was 16, he was in rehab because he went crazy on acid and, you know, and now he can't do drugs for the rest of his life. As opposed to me, I waited till I was like 30 to even drink or try pot or whatever. And I feel like I've been able to, maybe it's also brain chemistry and who I am, but I've been able to, you know, do it my whole life.

30:32And it's never like affected me dramatically or traumatically or negatively. I don't think.

30:37Rob Lowe:I mean, by the way, that is the other big thing about parenting, obviously, is helping them. And we could do a whole podcast episode or series on this is helping them figure out what their relationship is going to be to drugs and alcohol. I mean, it's a big, big. And I was I never understand the parents that go, oh, I don't I abused everything in college. God, I was a mess, you know, so I don't really have a leg to stand on when I bullshit. It's like you just be honest with them. Tell them what you did. This is what you know I'm saying. It's I think that's a very bad take. The take of I don't want them to know what I did.

31:18Rob Lowe:Right. I think it's a super bad take. I think I think it's a very self-serving take. That's more about like, you know, keeping up some sort of image you think you have as a parent to your kid, as opposed to educating them, which is really your job. Right. But also, I think like my daughter worships me and I drink wine all the time and I'm like, oh, is she going to want to just like she wants to do everything like me? You know, guess what? She's going to drink wine. Right, but maybe she'll be one of those people who, like, I don't know. You know, it's just like, how do I, but I don't want to hide it because it's, you know, I don't want to.

31:57Rob Lowe:Imagine you're in your pantry. Just a minute. Mommy needs a minute. Mommy's very dehydrated. I don't know. Yeah, I just, you know, you just want the best thing to happen for them until AI takes over. Oh, yeah, then we don't, we won't have to do anything.

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33:48Rob Lowe:Jerry O 'Connell. How many kids do you have? We have two kids. We have a set of twin girls. They're 14. Oh, my gosh. They're right in it. It's really crazy. What are they into? You know, um... They're big Taylor Swifties, for sure. Gotta be. Rob, I don't want to start any fights here. They are not Swifties. Wait a minute. Yes. My children are not Swifties. How can that possibly even be? You know, there are some kids out there, I know because my daughters and their friends are not Swifties. They all went to the SZA concert the other night. Okay. They're SZA fans. They like Frank Ocean. They like Childish Gambino.

34:25Oh, yeah. Who doesn't? You know, I don't want to offend any fan groups. I especially don't want any I Are Coming Your Way. I know your podcast is very popular. But my children have no interest in Swifties at all. I said when, you know, it was an event when Taylor came to town and all that stuff. And I said, you know, should I be saving up for tickets? And they went, we're not interested. We don't want to go. We're not into that. I don't know if it's because they're 14 and a little mature. No, they're 14 and they're iconoclasts.

34:57Rob Lowe:I get already, they're like, you know, that's for everybody else. That's what you want. I mean, when you're 14 and when something's, things can be too popular. Yeah, maybe it's that. But, you know, I do find if I see any teenage girl these days walking anywhere, I immediately think it's my children. They have this look now where they let their hair air dry. They wear baggy pants, very loose fitted jeans and crop tops. And they wear chunky sneakers, big chunky sneakers or Adidas Sambas. That's the look. And they don't wear belts, but they will use a shoelace as a belt. I'm not kidding. This is what the kids are doing now.

35:35I'm trying to keep you up to date here. A shoelace. I swear to you. Someone give me, has anyone seen a shoelace as a belt? Oh, yeah.

35:43Rob Lowe:There's a lot of hands going up in the booth. That's what they do. It's insane. I've offered to buy my shoes. It's not like I'm not allowing them to use belts. I offer to buy them belts. When we go out and they buy jeans, I say they're very loose fitted. Would you like a belt to go with that? And they go, dad, no one wears belts. I'll just borrow a shoelace. Everyone knows that. not to make everything serious here. My children are also, and you're very open about everything. My children are also at the age where they're starting to go to parties and drink a little bit, Rob. And it's really, it's funny.

36:16That's a new chapter for my wife and I. And it's funny at just this weekend, I dropped them off at a party and I was like beforehand, I have to say like, hey guys you know I can't tell you what to do and what not to do you know but like try not to get like wasted and I see a lot of their friends getting really wasted my one of my kids got really wasted once and I was like hey guys you know it runs in the family and we all have issues and you know just know you're doing it because you don't feel comfortable in a situation try to be who you are and know it's going to be nervous walking into any situation if you see new people try to introduce yourselves don't use alcohol as a crutch i realized like you know because i we all remember when we were young and we felt uncomfortable as everyone does and then you had a drink and you were like oh this is who i am okay for sure this is yeah oh my gosh this is the real me this is the real me i wasn't i can't believe i never did this before i tapped into who i am And finally, hey, everybody, I'm here.

37:25I'm me. And I try to explain that to my teenage daughters as much as possible because, you know, my kids are, you know, there are no saints. But they have a couple friends who just hit it hard a lot, you know. And I try to explain like, hey, guys, this is like straight up being uncomfortable in situations. I know exactly this feeling. and if you can figure out how to get through that uncomfortable feeling without a substance. By the way, it ain't just alcohol these days. It's so funny. I'm going to sound like a real geezer now, but because marijuana is now legal, which is still new to an old man like me.

38:08Rob Lowe:I still have to remind myself that the reason the traffic is so slow is that marijuana is legal. But by the way, I don't want to be a nerd with anybody. I don't smoke. Sorry, everybody. But like I have like such a keen smell. I can smell it. If I'm doing 70 on the highway, I can smell the cars that it's coming from on the highway. Like I said, every car. I'm like. Every car is like a Cheech and Chong sequel. But, you know, there's a lot of that with the kids because it's legal. So they get it in gummies and all that stuff. And I can just. I can't tell them what to do. I can't stop them from going to parties.

38:49but I can tell them about my insecurities when I was their age. That's all I can do.

38:54Rob Lowe:Yeah. The kids figuring out their relationship. I talk about a lot on the show. Yeah. Their relationship with drugs and alcohol is such a big, big, big, big part. And it's such a big part of parenting. And, you know, it isn't one size fits all. Everybody's different. Every kid is different. You know, some are just naturally going to not have an issue. Others are born to have an issue. You know, and it's so great that we live in this time because in my time, you know, my parents, you know, I love you guys if you're listening, but they partied pretty hard. And when I started partying, no one, no parent pulled me aside and said like, you know, I mean, it would have been like, hey, what are you doing?

39:43Like, stop that. Cut that out. You know, it was, um, I'm trying to be insightful. You know what I'm saying as a parent without having any guidance whatsoever.

39:52Rob Lowe:Yeah. It's, and it's also the, like you said, the, um, uh, the peer group, you know, I mean, I'll never forget rolling into Malibu from Dayton, Ohio as a teenager in the eighth grade cool girl birthday party. And her, her big birthday gift was like two grams of Coke. and I was like, what the living hell is going on here? Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. Is it, I mean, is it, I guess it's different than Ohio. I mean, I think it's the same. I think these are problems that everybody runs into though. I don't think it's just - Oh, for sure. I think teenagers are teenagers anywhere you go, you know?

40:31Rob Lowe:But it's all a function of what you can get your hands on. Believe me, if people could have gotten their hands on, you know, Mick Fleetwood's bag of Coke in Ohio, they would have, by the way, no disrespect. I, Mickleywood just got taken down on this podcast for no good reason at all just now. He has nothing to do with anything. But you know what I mean. But in Ohio, it was, what are you going to get? Johnny Bench's, you know, Bindle. Johnny Bench's Bindle. So that's a novel right there. I mean, that's a series of books. That's like Daisy, Daisy's whatever in the six. Daisy Jones in the six. I like it.

41:15Rob Lowe:Here's Lisa Kudrow. I listened to one of your books. I thought you were in Malibu. I was in Malibu when I was 13. Oh, 13. The dangerous time to be in Malibu. Oh, it was great to live in Malibu at 13. It was all, there were no parents. The parents were all doing est, you know, letting the kids, you know, raid not only the Coke vial and the cookie drawer. It was fantastic. But that's what I mean. Can you imagine? I mean, you didn't raise your kids like that. I went the total opposite way. Total disciplinarian, big time, like academic, you know, police, and tried to beat every living creative instinct out of them.

42:05You did? Hmm. All right. I remember - Why? Because it didn't work out for you?

42:12Rob Lowe:Well, yeah, because it's been being creative has been so detrimental to my life. I know. Huh? Look, but you also know that it's that weird thing of what we do. I is. Listen, Henry Fonda thought he was not going to work again to the day he died. OK. And that's just like some therapy could help out with that. Well, I've done that, too, and continue to do so. Right. I've thought that too we all think that and I was like wouldn't it be great to have I don't want my kids to grow up with this insecurity and I'd like to have some stability and not all the kooky crazy pitfalls and and and I remember like going to like different schools to put them in or not put them in and like we're very creative here we put on the school play every year I'm like I don't need that they see that all the fucking time in my life I need you to teach them how to multiply right Right.

43:09Rob Lowe:How about some long division? Yeah. How about that as an opening gambit? Well, most schools cover it. So that's what I did with my boys. I don't know what my point is. It sounds like I'm trying to say, well, you've made a mistake. Like, I don't know why I'm arguing with you. No, you're not arguing. Because you're right. I mean, we did too. We had our son in a very traditional school. And, you know, it wasn't a great fit, it turns out, because he was more creative. Well, creative, but that's a good thing. If you really truly are creative, right, it's going to come out no matter what you do. Right.

43:47Rob Lowe:And that's when you're good to go. Right, got it. I had somebody on the show who told me some great old-time actor said to a young actor, quit if you can. Yeah. And that's really what it's about. I didn't want to lead with the creative. I wanted to lead with the other because knowing the creative will get through no matter what. And indeed, my oldest son, sorry, my youngest son, John Owen, who this reminded me of you reading about you. He was he's a published author in a research paper on stem cell biology, as you are with headaches, as it turns out. Right. A lot of people know that. Ms. Kudrow, very smart cookie.

44:34Rob Lowe:And you went into a traditional, you know, route of medicine and research and the creative. You can't. It's like that opening shot of the Beverly Hillbillies where the oil comes out of the water. You just can't stop it. Yeah. You know, also, I feel like these younger people have a different kind of self-esteem. It's a lot. There's something. It's stronger than ours. Why is that? I agree. Why is that? Well, I think partly because of a combination of the way they were parented and then at school, the level of respect they were shown, you know, at school by not their peers. That's never changed. But even amongst their peers, it's a little better.

45:23I feel like, you know, the crazy meanness, you know, is that used to just be allowed because that's what kids do. They'll figure it out. You know, that stuff. Um, it's just, it's better. And, and they just seem a little more centered. Well, that's what I'm seeing. I'm sorry. That's what I'm seeing in the people who are actors or, or in the arts, you know, um, that's what I'm seeing.

45:51Rob Lowe:I, I, I'm very, uh, optimistic looking at, at the kids. Me too. Really super optimistic. It's so different, just the way they treat each other. And also just, it does seem like there's just like this underlying, what is it? It's just like an improved level of respect for each other.

46:23Rob Lowe:Titus Williver. A bunch of my kids are actors and I look at the... How is that for you? You know, look, you and I both know that it's a very irresponsible choice to pursue a career in the arts. But, you know, we don't want to do anything else. And it's navigating a sea of heartbreak. And, you know, when your kids express interest in that, you know, my only advice to them has been you do it because you have to. If you don't have to do this, don't do it because it just has to be a no-choice scenario. And nowadays, they're dealing with variables that we didn't have to deal with. If you went in and tested for a pilot back in the day or between you and a couple of other guys for a role, they weren't looking at each actor's social media numbers to make a decision.

47:22And, you know, it was based on whether you were good or even if you were green and you weren't, you know, quite there yet or great, that a director recognized that there was an organic rawness or a power that was there that they could move along, that they could nurture and really get something out of it. And now it's kind of terrifying. Okay.

47:50Rob Lowe:But do you have people, do you have people come up to you and say, I'm sure you do. My, my, my son or my daughter really wants to be an actor. What, what would you say to them? And I get that all the time. And I say exactly what you just said is they should only be doing it if they have no other choice in that. It's like they would do it for free. Right. They would do it for free. They would do it on their days off. It's all they want to do. it's the only way to combat the parade of indignities. Yeah. That, by the way, never ends. No, it never ends. No, it never ends. People think it ends. It doesn't end.

48:27Rob Lowe:Believe me, they hand you an Oscar, you walk off stage, the indignities will begin. Yeah. Believe me. It's true. Yes, it never ends. But that's what, you know, but people say, well, I guess you have to have, you know, survival skills. And you go, no, it goes beyond that. You have to have a level of belief and self-confidence in order to do that because it's, you know. Didn't you almost quit? I read a quote that your dad was like got up in your grill when you said you wanted to quit once. Is that true? Yeah. He was really angry with me. He said, you know, why? And I said, well, I don't, you know, I'd had a bad semester in college.

49:12And it was because I was dating this girl who was working at the Goodman Theater in Chicago. And so I was flying to Chicago all the time to see her. I wasn't going to class. And my grades were piss poor. My father just said, what are you doing? And I said, I don't know. I don't know about this thing. I'm thinking about, you know, I had friends who were in the law school at NYU. you. And so I had a side hustle where I would kind of coach these guys when they were doing their fake trials, right? And they'd have to do their opening statements and their summations and all that stuff. And so I would kind of coach them through and I became sort of intrigued by it.

49:56And I said, I think I'm going to go to move to pre-law and I think I'll become a lawyer. And my father said, but anybody can do that. To be an artist, it's part of who you are. It's like your blood. It's like your oxygen. It's part of who you are. And that resonated with me. And he didn't mean it in a pretentious way of, you know, we're these exceptional beings. beings. And, but it, it, it resonated and I kind of thought, no, you know what? He's right. And this is what I'm, I'm meant to do. And it was kind of a good, one of the many kind of wake up call one liners that my old man hit me with.

50:48Rob Lowe:By the way, that's a great one. Anybody can do that. Put me right back on, on track. And actually it made me become a better student and also So made me reinvest in the passion, which hadn't waned. I think I was just a bit at sea. I hadn't really given up on it. I became disenchanted. It was probably, look, it was probably all the drugs I was taking and all the booze I was drinking and just being unmoored. I just was literally at sea. And that kind of straightened my ass out and I got back to work and kept my nose to the grindstone and then went to the next step of humiliation and rejection and agitation.

51:36And that's indignity.

51:38Rob Lowe:When your kids who are actors walk you through their daily lives, I just got off the phone yesterday with my son, Johnny, who's writing. He's mostly writing. I just sold a show to Netflix, another show to Netflix. Oh, congratulations. Yeah, Netflix and Amazon bidding war. Fantastic. I know. I mean, because I did say to him when he said I wanted to be an actor, I said, you have to be a content creator. You have to be, you're a writer. You need to be a writer. I just didn't want to have images of him, you know, walking down the street with a jamba juice in his hand, being paparazzi. Do you know what I'm saying?

52:17Rob Lowe:Yeah. I just couldn't bear it. but hearing his parade of indignities, it just did never, does it take you back? Cause it takes me back. Yeah, of course it does. Of course. like he's like, I didn't get a call back or yeah, I know I wanted to be on white Lotus, but they didn't do any of whatever, whatever it is. It's like, you just go, yeah, been there. Yeah. And that's all you can really say. There's nothing, there's no secret formula to it. And particularly, you know, you've had this, and continue to have this enormous career. And there's the component of tenacity that is always there and having that vision.

53:05But yeah, and as parents, it's like we want to get in front of all that stuff in the same way that the first time you see your kid get on a steel jungle gym, You're like, God almighty, but you don't want a helicopter parent. But then as they become older, it's, you know, and seeing them navigate that stuff, it's devastating because you really can't get in front of it. You know, they got to get on the jungle gym and it's a big jungle gym. And it's, you know, it's occupied by all the meanest kids on the schoolyard are there. And, you know, you just have to kind of hang back and let them get in there and roll their sleeves up and punch through.

54:11Booking by Katherine Cook. Music by Devin Bryant. Special thanks to Hidden City Studios. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally.

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