Tony Hawk: Got Your Bell Rang

0:00Particularly people in my business. But we live in the hub of that, of false promises and leaning you on or just getting shut down.

0:21Hey, everybody. Welcome to Literally. Excuse my voice. I'm doing a movie while I'm doing this. and I fried my vocal cords. So it's going to be annoying or sexy. I hope. I don't know. But anyway, you're going to have to deal with it like me. Anyway, my guest today is Tony Hawk, the amazing, iconic, revolutionary skateboarder. Just, you know, who hasn't played Tony Hawk's pro skater video game? at some point in their life, and just a super interesting dude. Let's talk skating.

1:13Well, I have one of those summer colds, and I've been doing this character where my voice is supposed to sound like Gavin Newsom. Wow. So this is my— That's rough. Just pretend you're being interviewed by the governor. What a perfect time to be doing a podcast. Right? I know. I didn't even think about it. I was like, fuck it. Oh, fuck it. We're going to do it. I'm so psyched to have you here. Oh, thank you. I've been a fan for a long time. I appreciate it. I think we met at, do you remember Stand Up to Cancer event? Yes, of course. Yeah. I think we met there briefly, but it was chaos. Those things are really, they're great because it's such a great cause and they're so well put on, but you see everybody, right?

1:55Yeah. Yeah. You're like, oh, hey, hi, hi, hi. Then you're like being led away. Yeah, exactly. It's the only way. Hey, hey, hi, hi, hi, yeah. You, you, hi, hi, you, you, e, e, gone. Yeah, I met Seth Rogen in recent years. And he said, we actually almost met at Stand Up to Cancer. You ollied off the stage and skated past me on your way out. That's kind of. That's kind of what it was, yeah. That's kind of dope. Was Skateboarder Magazine still a thing in your day? Yeah. It was. Yeah, that was my Bible. I mean, before I even went to a skate park, I had Skateboarder Magazine. Growing up, what was the neighborhood?

2:34Like, it was a street, it was a curb. Yeah, it's a suburb of San Diego. It's called Tierra Santa. Mostly military families. My dad was in the Navy. And it was, well, alleyways, streets, curbs. But when you think about skateboarding at that time, it was mostly just transportation. we we the ollie hadn't even been invented yet so we didn't know you know the possibilities right right um but i liked it because it was different than riding a bike and and um and my brother was into it so i had a hand-me-down skateboard that's how i started what'd you ride what was it do you remember it was a bane fiberglass board with um stoker wheels and amazing I believe, I'm not sure what kind of trucks they were actually.

3:23I used to have a G &S Fiberflex. Oh, yeah. Remember the Fiberflex? Of course. Yeah. Stacy Peralta. Yeah. Yeah. With tracker trucks. Yep. That's before mine. So you're more OG than I am. Yeah. I mean, dude, I grew up with a skateboarder named Paul Hackett. Do you remember that guy? Yeah, sure. Yep. That story? Yeah. Yeah. Bro. Yeah. It's awful. I mean. Dave Hackett's still around. No way. Yeah. still skating no way yeah yeah um it was and then the 90s the early 90s is that was it was like a dry period for skating right um say well for the industry it was uh you well it was it was hard for me i i i've heard people cringe when they say like skateboarding was when i say skateboarding was dead in the 90s they're like that was my time you know what i mean that was when the streets were alive was skating and it was so everything was new and fresh.

4:18And so I hesitate to say it died, but I was having a hard time making a living for sure because I had some success in the eighties and I'm young enough to think that's, that's how it's going to be going forward. It's invincible. And then all of a sudden it was like, see, he's not cool anymore. And you got to figure out what you're going to do. And you got a family on the way. And I had to hustle. What do you think is, makes sports ebb and flow? Well, in the case of skateboarding, it was never accepted as a, I don't know, as a traditional sport, as parents didn't embrace it. And so it was more akin to toys.

5:01It was like a, it was a Frisbee. It was a yo-yo. And so when I started, that was fine. Like I didn't, I wasn't trying to make a living. I just enjoyed doing it. You know, and no one, you couldn't aspire to be rich or famous because no one was, you were just doing this toy thing. And then when I was in my twenties, after a couple of, of cycles of popularity, but more in the way of a hula hoop where it was like, oh, it's big now. And now it's not, now it's kind of big. And so when that second downturn happened, I was an adult and it was super hard because I'm still skating as good as I ever was.

5:42But every once in a while, I'd get a call from some Hollywood production. We need a skateboarder, but they need to be young. And it was like, I could do it. So I became a, um, I, I, I became like a consultant to, but that was, that was a job, right? So I would go the day before the shoot, show them what to frame up, how to do it. I would perform it, you know? And they're like, all right, cool. We'll have the kid come in tomorrow and do it right. Wow. Yep. There is something just about somebody carrying a skateboard down the street or on one of the long ones that like the older they are, you go, wait, what's going on?

6:25Yeah. I get those looks. You're immune. I mean, you're the made man. And you're inoculated from all of it. Well, I will tell you, like, there's a whole new generation of skaters, right? I mean, it's prolific now. There are skate parks everywhere. Parents encourage their kids. Parents skate with their kids. And so sometimes I'll show up to a skate park and the dad or somebody will be like, hey, that's Tony Hawk. And the little kid's like, that old guy? Oh, no. No way. But, I mean, that's fine. I think that's how it should be. Dude, I can't even imagine what it'd be like showing up at a skate park and seeing you there.

7:00I mean, is it like, do the people just like flip? Yeah, sometimes it causes a buzz. I think for me, there's a more selfish pride that I know they expect me to perform magic. Right. And it's like, I've never been here. I don't know the route. And, you know, I'm not skating like I used to. So I'm just going to cruise and check it out and have fun. So I usually show up in the mornings and that's, we call that the adult swim hour because that's when people more closer to my age are skating. before work or little kids are trying to learn how to skate without people flying around. So that's usually like, that's the golden hour.

7:38What's the best way to learn to skate? What would you recommend for a little kid and then for somebody who's not little? Well, I recommend pads either way, right? Because you just don't know what's going to happen, especially helmet. And I think it's more, you got to get comfortable with the motion of it. A lot of kids get into it and they want to do kickflips and they want to do big rails and jumps and they don't have any foundational skills to get there. And that's when you start getting hurt. So I think it's more getting really comfortable on the board, being stable, learning how to turn, learning how to push properly, learning the cadence of skate parks because if you've never been to a skate park, you end up becoming an obstacle and you got to stand in the right places and realize what the flow is there because it can get dangerous.

8:28Um, but I think it's more just, just kind of finding a flat area and getting comfortable with the motion and the balance. What's the biggest, steepest thing you've ever shot? Oh, like a downhill? Yeah, like a downhill. Um, I'm not much of a, of a downhill. I like, I never went full speed. I, I'm not, there's a generation of skaters now that can overcome speed wobbles. I can't. like I have been ejected in the worst ways from my skateboard from wobbling. So I'm not trying to go fast. I would say the, why does that happen? What's the physics? I wish I knew that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Why?

9:10I just thought it was bad. I mean, it's kind of like it when you're, when you're experiencing it, you just set it off with one tiny little adjustment and then it's, it's wobbling and it's, it's out of control. Um, but what was I going to say? The, the, I think the fastest I've gone is, you know, those big air ramps with the jump, with like the 50 foot jumps. Jumping that is the fastest I've gone. And I've actually done the bigger quarter pipe, like vert ramp thing after it. And going up that wall and feeling my board start to wobble was terrifying. But it didn't go beyond control before I got in the air.

9:52So it was kind of like, oh, I'm safe. I'm in the air.

10:09How do you train to be in the air? That's the other thing. It's just something you work on. It's weird. There's very distinct styles of skating. So I'm a vert half pipe skater. Pools. I grew up skating pools. Right. Yeah. That's where the air started. That's where the air started. Right. And so I got above the coping. That's it. Yeah. Oh, I have a photo of me. First time above the coping. Dude. Amazing. First time above the coping. Yeah. Yeah. My brother just happened to be there. That's amazing. But that style of jumping is completely different than how you ollie off the ground on the street.

10:48So you can tell people's styles just by giving them any kind of terrain. And like my kind of ollies off the flat are very clunky because I'm used to shooting from a vertical plane. So that's just a whole different way of approaching skating and doing it. And so when people, it really depends on kids. Like, what is their motivation? Do they want to fly? Or do they want to do big stunts, down stuff? And they're just different approaches. The aerial, do they even call them aerials anymore? Airs, yeah. They were full. It was just one. Nobody had made the word concise when I was little. No. Well, yeah, so the folklore is that Tony Alba was the first one to do an air.

11:37and he did it frontside. So when you do an aerial in the frontside direction, grabbing like he did, it's just a frontside air. Right. Like that's the only one that has a generic label because it was like, that's all they knew. That's amazing. Yeah. He also had one of the great autographs. Yeah. Yeah. I tried to copy it on my notebooks. It's cool. How great is that? Yeah, it's so cool. So sick. Yeah. He's around, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's still skating. Amazing. Yeah. and um yeah the guys i idolized were like stacy peralta um gosh yeah and then dog town i went to sam oh hi oh yep so i'm right there right in the thick of it in the thick of it i mean it was it was happening it was that did you ever skate kenter banks yeah for sure yeah i got i got a photo that like that was the end of the era of kenter banks but i got to go with Stacy when I first got on the Bones Brigade.

12:36And so I have a photo. I have a photo doing a layback on Kenter Banks. It's like, it's one of my favorite things. What was the first piece of equipment you coveted? Oh, wow. I got a Sims Andrecht model. My God, a Sims. And Dave Andrecht was the local hero of San Diego, of Oasis Skate Park. and it was the first brand name board that I ever got because all the other boards I got were from swap meets or garage sales or whatever and that one was like I got a pro level skateboard in fact when I got older I missed it and so someone actually rebuilt one for me with the same specs, same gull wings, same sim snakes it's hanging in my office I just remember the when new wheels would come out yeah like it was like so you and we're getting this deep cut but yeah I know you you were in the era of road riders yes right so I never got road rider fours because they were too hard to get they were too expensive um and just last year I bought a set of road rider fours no way because it's like I have to like I finally got some yeah on eBay.

13:56Are they red? Yeah. They're red, right? My Fiberflex, Road Riders, Tracker Trucks. That's amazing. That's a good setup, right? That's a good setup, yeah. But looking back at it, it's tiny. Oh, yeah, yeah. All that stuff was tiny. We didn't know any better. Right. But then it got tiny and then huge immediately. Yes. So my Andrake board was like 10 or 11 inches wide. I was 10 years old. How do you even, how do you. You see the photos of me, like my feet are drowning on the grip tape. So, so I remember they opened a skate park off of Canaan Doom Road and they had the whale bowl was like the, that was the shit that everybody tried to do.

14:41But it was so huge when I grew up. I mean, everything seemed gigantic. Everything. And we would all build ramps out of plywood and it would be off the street and up a telephone hole and all that. Oh yeah. Well my, my, I tried to build one when I was like 10 and my dad came out and he's just like, what is this? This is a danger to everyone. And then he, he built me a proper, uh, quarter pipe four feet wide, about five feet tall, almost to vert. It was amazing. Jesus. He put, he put, he put linoleum tile on the top so I could feel like I had, I was hitting tile before the coping. Above the coping.

15:23I remember for a hot second, there was a piece of equipment you could get where you could Velcro your feet to the board. Oh, yeah. Do you remember those? Yeah. Or skyhooks. They had sort of these hook, red hooks. Skyhooks is a good name. Yeah. And then you just sort of put your feet under them and lock them in. Yeah. I did that a couple of times, but at some point realized you can't bail when you're doing that. No. You know, and it's just dangerous. Worst fall, you broke your femur, right? I broke my femur about three years ago, yeah. Wait a minute. Your worst fall was only three years ago? Well, I mean, I can't say it's the worst fall.

16:03One of my worst falls was from a 14-foot loop and got a concussion, fractured my skull, my pelvis, my thumb. That was the worst fall. You know what I mean? Yeah. The thing that I did when I broke my femur, I just had a bad landing and I just was trying to recover. And in that, I got tangled and my leg just snapped. Yeah, it was very, when your femur bone breaks, you know it immediately because it feels like your limb is detached. It's gone. So I was sliding across the bottom and I looked up at my friend. I broke my leg and he looked down and he saw it pointing the way. He's like, I think you're right.

16:46Oh, man. how old are you at this point? Uh, wow. I was 54. Oh no. Yeah. That was a rough recovery. Just the notion of 54. I know. But you know what? I was still in denial of, of my age at that point or my limitations. So I kept thinking, I'm going to get back right away. Like I'm going to, I'm going to beat all the doctor's orders in it. And because I did that, I actually sabotaged the recovery and my bone never healed back to itself. like it just stayed separated so I had to have a reset how did you what was it like when Activision came to you for for Pro Skater 1 Pro Skater 1 it was always called Pro Skater right yeah it was it was exciting I was actually pitching a game idea to a few publishers and console manufacturers just about a year prior to that and no takers.

17:48In fact, just no interest. It was more like skating isn't even popular. Why would we make a video game with skating? And so I just kind of gave up. I was working with a PC programmer that was kind of leading the cause. He gave up because he's like, I got to make a living. And then Activision called me and said, we heard you're trying to make a skate game. I was, but I don't have the resources and I'd have no interest. And they said, we are making a skate game. And we would like you to be part of it in however capacity you want. If you could just come up and see what we're working on. And I went up to Activision and they had a PlayStation.

18:33They had just done a game called Apocalypse featuring Bruce Willis. Like first time they ever did a celebrity likeness in a game. So his voice, his character. Wow, I didn't realize that. Yeah, but it didn't do well. It just kind of, I'm not sure why. And someone at Neversoft who made the game said, hey, this engine works better for skating than running or just for wheels. And so the first time I ever played what became Tony Hawk's Pro Skater was Bruce Willis on a skateboard. Wow. With a gun on his Mac, doing ollies and kickflips through a desert landscape. And it was immediately, I just felt it.

19:15I immediately was doing tricks. Like the controls were intuitive. It was so fun. Just that small sample of it. And I signed on right away. That's unbelievable. What an amazing, there's so much in that story that I find fascinating, not the least of which is you had the idea, you had the wherewithal, you were out there banging the pavement with pros. Yeah. And no takers. No. I mean, it was really humiliating, honestly. The meetings we took. Some were somewhat interested. I mean, we even went to Nintendo, like Nintendo Corp. And luckily, one of the guys that was in charge knew who I was and was somewhat excited about the idea, but just couldn't push it through the rest of the company.

20:01Oh, my God. That happens. I hear it with people, entrepreneurs, particularly people in my business. But we live in the hub of that. Right. Of false promises and - Yeah, right. Yeah, leaning you on and, or just getting shut down. After, you know, a certain amount of, you're like, oh, this feels like I had some traction. Oh, I mean, up to a year ago, we were doing a Bones Brigade episodic show. A year ago. Yeah, it was definitely happening. And then - And it's not happening. Yeah. And that does not happen. God, that's so - Wait, a Bones Brigade show? Well, like a scripted show. Let's go. It would be really fun.

20:42It would be really cool. I mean, it still has potential for sure, but we lost the writer attached to it and it just kind of fizzled. It never is. That's why you have to have about a billion things going. Right? Oh, absolutely. Yes. A lot of balls in the air, as the people in my office like to say. We've got a lot of stuff happening, maybe. A lot of maybes. Yeah. A lot of maybes turns into one yes. Yeah, that's what it takes. I mean, I feel like that's something I try to impart on my kids too. Like just say yes. Try everything. That's what I say. I don't know what's going to land. I literally say say yes.

21:20Yeah. That's what I say. Because you don't know. Yeah, or that will just lead to something else. Or maybe you discover something you really enjoy in that process and that leads you another direction with what you want to do for a living. you're one of the lucky ones like like me that i get to make a living doing what i love yeah i mean did you have that with your kids you're like oh my god i was so lucky to never work a day of my life because i loved what i was doing but what if they have to grow up and work for the man punch yeah i don't i i i don't even it's not that's that's a tough one yeah right yeah i did Yes, I do what I love, but I definitely hustled when times were tough and just sort of forced myself into whatever situation I could to pay my mortgage.

22:12And it wasn't all fun. It wasn't pretty. It was a struggle for sure. I embrace it because I was willing to do the hard work. But I feel like with my kids especially, I just want them to enjoy what they're doing. even if they're working for a man that's okay if they're enjoying it I guess that's really what I meant the enjoyment because there are plenty of people who don't enjoy what they do or the sort of fantastical version of what you think it is where it's like I have one son that really wants to get in the film industry and he's doing it, he's doing the work and stuff but then he did end up on a couple sets where it wasn't all fun and games but he embraced it Yes.

22:55I mean, there's always that thing behind the curtain. Injuries, right? Like any athlete that I talk to, I'm always fascinated because we probably, there's no way as a fan of any sport you can ever know what they're dealing with on a daily basis. Right. There's living with injuries and chronic pain. I agree. Right? Yes. Yeah. Hey, he's been dealing with a toe issue for a long. You're like, what? what? Yeah. Huh? But I'm, I like, I'm a huge baseball guy and I, and we're at that point in the season where guys are so hurt. Yeah. And now it's getting to where it matters and they've never felt worse.

23:36Right. And you're like, how, what kind of, that is the pain management, the, the taking care of your body. Did you, did you miss that era of like infrared saws and cold plunges and all that? And in some ways shunned it. That's what I'm thinking because we're sort of the same era. Yeah. That stuff wasn't around. That's right. Walk it off. Suck it up. Yeah, right? That's what I tell my kids. Like, that's what, you know, or you're like, oh, you got your bell rang. Sit this one out. You got your bell rang. Yeah. You want to like, you know, I got a concussion. Like, I woke up in a different place. Yeah.

24:16You know, but back then it was just like, yeah, you'll be fine tomorrow. Right? And so, and I guess that was instilled in me. It was just like, don't complain. Just work it out. Go, you know, push through the pain. And I still carry that for sure. But I've learned to embrace, especially at this age, I've learned to embrace the help. Right. Because like, I can't do what I do at this level unless I'm really working hard at it on the outside time. Chiropractors, stretching. Yeah. Body work. Body work and working out. Like that wasn't part of skateboarding. No, that was the antithesis of skateboarding.

25:12How much of surfing was, because obviously they're intertwined. Sure. But they also felt very, I have friends who realize, but a lot of them don't skate. But in the day, they did. Do you think that's a thing? Well, I think skateboarding was, of course, an offspring of surfing. It was sidewalk surfing, as we called it back in the day. And they were intertwined. My brother was a surfer. Actually, he was the editor of Surfer Magazine for a long time. Oh, wow. Um, and so I couldn't get by without serving just from peer pressure from him. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. Even when he's in town now, he's turning 70.

25:55Um, and even when he's in town now, he's like, how are the waves? Are we going surfing? I'm like, I don't even know if I have a board set up, but, um, but it was much more intertwined in the seventies. Yes. And then as, as skating progressed and obviously sort of the, the style and the tricks went beyond what was happening in the waves, it became its own thing in the 80s. And now I feel like surfing is borrowing from skating. Absolutely. 100%. Yeah, do the errors and stuff. But I don't think there are a lot of people that do the crossover. Yeah, it's weird. You'd think that there would be. I got to say, just from personal experience, like I, you know, when people say, aren't you, I'm terrified of huge waves.

26:39Wow. And then people are like, but you'll ride a 30-foot ramp. Like that ramp is not going to come after me if I fall. it's not gonna hold you down and bury me and then another one's coming after it but it's but that's it's like it's made of metal and wood sure but i know i just know how to fall you know so i'm not i'm not that scared of it and it's been decades of experience doing that but but yeah i've done and i've had hold downs like i know i know the fear it's real it's yeah it's super scary. Um, what's, what's the thing anybody can do to, if they're falling, it's just make yourself relaxed, right?

27:16Um, yeah. Well, if you're skating ramps, knee sliding is the key to safely falling. And that is definitely an acquired skill that you, you know, if you're planning to skate any kind of ramps, you just figure it out. And then you realize like, Oh, I can, if you just, You take one step to lessen the impact and then drop to that knee and then slide safely. I mean, I've been doing that for my whole life. If you're in the streets, it's more about how do you run out of stuff? How do you kind of roll stuff? Yes, relax in a way, but just kind of be ready. Ready for any moment it's going to go wrong. You can't just plan for, well, if I don't make it, I'll be okay, I'll step off.

28:00it's more like you might hit a rock on the way up you gotta be ready for anything ugh the dreaded rock yeah we call it rock fart and then you're I did yesterday no way you were skating yesterday I was skating I was skating we are opening a a hot chicken sandwich place in Encinitas and I've kind of I helped design it so the patio is patterned after a pool I grew up skating amazing and it's kind of skatable. So yesterday we were trying to shoot some photos before the furniture gets in and I hit a rock going up to the wall. It just fell into the wall. How fun was it to find a pool that you had to jump the fence?

28:42I got to say, I got lucky in that I grew up in the era of pools built for skate parks. Yeah. So pools that were relatively smooth. I mean, in comparison, not at all. Right, right, right. You know, they had their flaws, but they were made to skate. And so when I would be faced with, hey, we're going to skate this backyard pool, I'm like, cool. But no one had skating in mind when they built it. And so we're going to have to deal with kinks. And yeah, there's a fun challenge to that. And I've definitely, you know, I've been kicked out of places, gotten tickets, got arrested. But it was, to me, I was just like, I want to go skate the pool that they built for us.