Ariana Grande Has Been Forever Changed by Wicked (and Wicked: For Good)

0:01Hey, Little Gold Men listeners, especially the ones across the pond. We're recording a Little Gold Men episode live in London on the evening of February 19th with the cast of Sentimental Value. We've got a select number of tickets to give out to our listeners. So if you'd like to join the fun, email us at littlegoldmen at vf.com. We hope to see you there. Hi, I'm Arden Fanning-Andrews, Vogue's beauty editor at large. My husband and I talk a lot of eBay strategy together because it is something that we have bonded over since the beginning of our relationship. We've known each other for 20 years, and we've been using eBay for even longer than that, both of us.

0:41He's very proud of his five-star review, which I have the same. We're pretty popular. We have a really good reputation on eBay.

0:53Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men, Fannie Ferris podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. I'm Rebecca Ford. During our holiday break, we're opening up the Little Goldman archives to share some interviews from last year with the stars of this year's films. My guest today is Ariana Grande, who was Oscar-nominated for her turn as Galinda in the first Wicked film and is once again gaining some awards buzz for her performance in the follow-up Wicked for Good. Just like in the first movie, I came away from the sequel incredibly impressed by not only her singing but her acting. from the comedic bits to the more dramatic moments in the film.

1:30We talked about how this role has permanently transformed her voice, the similarities she sees between herself and Galinda, and what was especially fun about being a part of awards season last year. I also got to learn her most overused phrase in a round of Bruce Roulette, although you might be able to guess it before we get to the end.

1:52I'm so excited to welcome Oscar-nominated actor Ariana Grande to the podcast. Thank you for joining me. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. This is such a crazy time. I can imagine. I was sort of looking at what you've been doing recently, and it seems like a lot. You did a panel with Billie Eilish just yesterday. I did. It was really, really sweet. She's just incredible, and she's so supportive. And yeah, it was really fun to be able to see her and celebrate what we've both been up to and hug and also feel her support in this moment. It's just like really nice to have a friend.

2:29And it's been really beautiful and lovely. And we've been doing so much work and it has just felt so celebratory of Wicked and of the work that we were so grateful to do. And it's been nice. I introduced you as Oscar nominated actor does that label are you comfortable with that now? it's been a couple weeks since that happened it's so surreal I will never get used to that that is just quite a surreal thing yeah it's something I'll cherish forever it's a very crazy thing to hear and of course nothing that would ever even cross your mind just so grateful to be doing the work It's not something that you even let yourself dream about, you know, you're just present in the moment.

3:15And the gift of playing Glinda was just so much more than enough to begin with. So to see it be celebrated in this way and have that acknowledgement is so deeply special, you know. It's a special movie, I think. So I think a lot of people sort of feel that about it. Thank you. I interview a lot of actors. There's a lot of sort of conversation about we're all family in a movie. But I do think with this movie, you and Cynthia have this sort of incredible support system for each other that is genuine and you don't see a lot. And I know that was something you talked about early on. But I'm curious if you could take me back to how that conversation first came up between the two of you.

3:58Was it like right after you were cast? Yeah, so we hadn't chemistry read together or anything. We didn't test together. We hadn't met each other in person, which is funny because we had been to events in the same night, but we never crossed paths. We just hadn't met. But I was such a fan of hers, and I love her voice and her work so much. I had so much respect for her. And I think just upon being cast and immediately being able to connect and decide that we were going to protect this experience and each other, Uh, it was a mutual and enthusiastic commitment. You know, I really wanted to get granular with it, you know, going through our contracts together, making sure she was getting what she needed.

4:44And we were both taking care of in the way that we need to be. And just starting off on a really honest page, you know, there's nothing you can't say to me. There's nothing you can't talk to me about. We're both very different and there's so much we have in common, but also we're We're very different. And I never wanted her to feel like there was anything she couldn't share with me or couldn't say to me. You know, it was never going to be anything but us against anything that would arise together as a team. Us united against anything that would come up. I feel like in this world, people are so eager to pit women against each other.

5:22And it just was not an option. And it's never an option. And I think that's something that I've learned through meeting so many kind and generous artists is that that's our response to that. It's this thing that the world can try to do to performers, but that's the medicine. That's the answer. That's the response to it is creating an even more safe space every time we meet someone new or making people feel like they can be their fullest selves so that we can perform well and also have a beautiful time together and make something real. It makes you quite vulnerable to do that though Yeah Yeah, but also that's so beautiful I feel like Vulnerability is such a gift And it's how we really get to know people And also How we get to know the characters we're playing And how we get to a point Where we can just simply be Listening to each other and responding And we can honor the work better that way We can honor each other that way and ultimately serve the peace more effectively if we all lead with the knowledge that none of us are bigger than this thing.

6:34We're all holding hands and playing and learning together. And this is high stakes for everyone. Everyone is leading with the same amount of care and positive nervousness and excitement about this opportunity. And I just feel like when you recognize that in everyone you're sharing a space with, Literally everyone cares the same way. That's why we're here. It leads to a more positive experience. It's not just us. It's everyone, you know? Yeah, I think that's true. One thing I, there's lots of things I love about your performance, but one thing I really notice is the physicality of this role. Not just her hair flip, but sort of the way you carry your body as your Glinda is very specific, I think.

7:17Can you tell me about sort of developing that? Yeah, thank you so much for noticing it. I loved finding her body. I loved finding how she walks, how she holds her shoulders and her head and her whole body. It was just, it was an alien. You know, it was quite different from how I am. And I think I wanted it to stem from her insecurities and her want to seem so graceful and elegant like a swan. And yet she's this very stiff, uptight, awkward thing. You know, she's not really what she thinks she is, I think. But, you know, it was a combination of just kind of getting to know underneath the surface what makes her so like desperate for external validation and getting to know why the need to be perfect and popular is so important to her.

8:11sort of doing that work on like a person level but then also getting into on our first day of rehearsal paul taswell's office and saying may i please have a pair of her her shoes even if it's just a rehearsal pair not the real pair so that i have the right height of the heel and can i have my corset as soon as possible so that i have that support so that i can know what her body language is going to be and so that even though we're so far from shooting I can find what that is that was just such a fun and beautiful piece of the puzzle was getting into those training corsets and those training character shoes and it's quite strange to see it back I wasn't looking at much of the playback or the dailies and stuff and I didn't realize how far it had gotten.

9:05And it's nice to kind of just hear that it's noticed. Thank you for acknowledging it. It's fun. It's a fun piece of it. Yeah. And talk to me a little bit more about the emotional work, the background work. What was easiest for you to relate to Glinda about her insecurities, where her head's at, and what did you find sort of most difficult to understand about her? I think something that we share is this like adjacent relationship to grief. You know, I think grief can be so many things at once. And I think in No One Warns the Wicked, she's experiencing a lot of them at once. It's devastation, heartbreak, also disappointment, also guilt.

9:48also I wish I could share with the munchkins the truth of what's happening in my heart while also realizing that you have to maintain that boundary because you know sometimes things just have to remain in our hearts for us and you know the grief and sort of like that tightrope that she walks felt like one of the reasons I think I was meant to play this role you know the comedy of course is such an important piece of the puzzle and I love comedy of course but that's I don't think why I was called to do this I think it was kind of more about what's underneath the surface so I think there was a lot there where I could relate to her um I think the hardest part was allowing her to have a little touch of that mean girl at the beginning because I wanted to protect her and it's really hard because I don't think she's a bad person.

10:51I think she's a really good person. I know in fact that she's a really good person. She's just been blinded by her privilege. So I think I was doing a lot of coming up with excuses and finding out why she's able to engage with the meanness at the beginning or that side of her that's simply so unaware and that was tough to kind of search for why she might have those moments but it was beautiful to find those reasons because I was able to love her even at her worst because we did that search and found those reasons. So yeah, that part was tough. I'm very protective over her. Like every choice she makes, I have like a really good reason why.

11:50And I feel like I'm constantly, even to this day in Galinda protection mode because so many people have so many feelings about why she didn't get on the broom and is that a result of her privilege and, you know, she's not brave enough to defy this system that has always benefited her and blah, blah, blah. But she is brave in her own way. She is. Staying is brave in her own way because, oh, and of course, you know, accepting this decision that Elphaba is making, even though she doesn't agree with it or approve of it, and she's terrified for this person she loves, is brave as well. That acceptance is bravery as well.

12:30but staying with the awareness that I will not be able to contribute to a positive change if I get on that broom with you and go anywhere. Like, yes, there's safety for her in staying, but also she knows that if Elphaba actually had stayed, she would have been able to make a difference by leveraging her powers and holding them over the wizard's head and Marble's head. But we would have been able to make progress quicker, faster, if that were an option to her. but of course she's never going to see that and she's never going to make that decision so then the acceptance and that love that unconditional love of saying I love you I get it I'm going to say goodbye even though I can't I'll tie this little cape around you and tell you I love you with my eyes because it's too much is another act of her bravery so I feel this really strong on the urge to protect her because I know that Glinda the Good is beneath it all.

13:26And you'll see, of course, how that evolves later. Part two is coming. Yes, yes, yes. You've talked a lot about how much you've loved the story and this character for a long time, which made me wonder what it was like. And I know you had lots of rehearsals and costume fittings, but what was it like your very first day on set? What was the scene? What was it like really stepping into her for the real time. It was quite surreal. You know, we had such a long lead up. We had such a long pre-production rehearsal period. And like you said, just time to kind of dig in. But when you get in the room and you're in that set, that Nathan Crowley set, and you hear John's voice say this beautiful speech, we're all holding hands, the whole crew.

14:16and he says welcome to wicked and he you know welcomed us all so warmly it's like there is an element of magic that kind of was present and it was very emotional and very we just were gone from that moment out till we wrapped and um it was very special we started in the dorm room with a scene where she's at the door and you go come in jay kong's in the weird scene with the air and and the bed and you know we were so lucky that that was the first scene because it was kind of parallel it was our first day as those characters in the costumes all of the picture coming together and that scene is just about getting to know each other and that felt like a scene where we were still kind of getting to know each other as glinda and alphaba so that was beautiful but you know our first week was that scene and popular and what is it feeling so it was quite it was quite the way to rip off the band-aid so was popular the first song you had to perform what was it like that first day i mean obviously you're so experienced with singing but this must feel a little bit different yeah i mean it was so exciting and of course just so insane.

15:35Like what a way to start, you know, start with a, with a bang. But, uh, I was also recovering from having COVID. So I literally learned, okay, so this is a fun story. The hallway ending, that big, long one take down the hallway coming back while the modulations are happening at the end of the song during the la-las, that was a last minute decision that was put in like two days before cameras were up we weren't sure if we were going to use the classic ending of popular or this new version with all of the key changes at the end and it wasn't until john chu and alice brooks our incredible dp saw the hallway at shiz and they said we have to do something special here like imagine if it's just filled up with pink at the end of popular and And Chris Scott, our choreographer, choreographed that outro last minute, learned it two days before and got it up on its feet.

16:31And that was just so thrilling and exciting. That's what I love most is that like live element, the live theater element. I love rehearsing and getting to know my character, of course, and then kind of forgetting everything and leaving it outside of the room. Because it's like, we've done the work. We know these women. And let's just kind of let it be as free and spontaneous and honest as possible. And that's just what that felt like, you know. It's like everything comes to life in a new way, no matter how much time you've had to prep and learn the choreography. It all is different when you get to that moment, you know.

17:11Yeah, yeah. I think when I walked out of the first screening, I was talking with my colleagues who had seen it with about your comedy chops are so incredible. And I know you're a self-proclaimed comedy nerd. And in our cover story, Bowen Yang said she talks and thinks like a comedian, which I thought was a really cool thing of him to say. That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said. So what is it about comedy that you find so exciting and interesting to do? I don't know. I mean, I think it just totally scratches a different itch. I think it makes people feel so comfortable and safe. I think like there's a safety in it.

17:54There's an ice that's broken. You know, when you can make someone laugh, it's like a guard is down. And I've always sort of found that to be really healing in a way. Humor has always just been something that brought so much like light to my life. When I was a little girl, it was a source of safety for me and just like a fun escape. You know, I loved watching the Jim Carrey movies. I loved watching Christopher for guest movies and, you know, First Wives Club with Goldie and, you know, the comedy queens kind of that raised me. And I don't know, it was always just something that felt so rewarding to me, like being able to make someone laugh.

18:48More with Ariana Grande after a quick break.

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20:57Welcome back to Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair. Here's more of my interview with Ariana Grande, star of Wicked and Wicked for Good. I have a three-part question for you. Oh, fun. The first part is, how did playing Glinda make you a better actor? I think the challenge of playing Glinda taught me so, so, so much. She's a once-in-a-lifetime gift of a character, really, because you get to tap into so many different things. And I think that was kind of what made it most rewarding, most challenging, was all of the different things that she requires. There's a physical training that went into the physical comedy side, but also the truth that has to live underneath the surface in order for any of the jokes to land, in order for any of her to be believable at all.

21:46There has to just be a real person and a truthful heartbeat that's living underneath all of it in order for any of it to play. and the challenge I think and the thing that I'm most grateful for was that it's a role that really gets to have a very deep arc you know we see a lot of her softness but I think she opens up emotionally just a little bit in the first film I think she still has a lot that she keeps inside in the first film and of course we shot both films and you know I can speak a little bit about the second movie and you get to see her open up a lot more and you get to know a lot more of her pain and her emotional side the side that she doesn't let the munchkins in on that she doesn't let honestly even Elphaba in on that's why she runs to go tie the cape you know because she can't say what she's thinking and getting to have that experience with her and getting to explore those depths as well as her light.

23:00I think that's probably why she's helped me grow so much is just because she requires every tool in your box as an actor. Yeah. Part two. How did playing Glinda make you a better singer? not going to make me a better singer well just the amount of training i mean on the technical side training to sing blinda changed my voice permanently for the rest of my life you know to be super nerdy my chords even looked different when i started than when i finished you know i get my voice scoped often to see uh you know just to check in because vocal health is so important to me. And when you're coming off of a stretch of years where you're singing pop music and the style of singing is different and the placements that you're using are most often like, you know, my mix and my belt with a little bit of my whistle register and a little bit of falsetto.

24:00But Glinda lives in that kind of falsetto place, that operatic, like super light, floaty, that requires a lot of strengthening and also tweaking your vowels and your vibrato and your consonants and strengthening that part of the vocal cords was like quite a journey. You know, my chords at the beginning, they were sort of like ever, ever, ever so slightly, only I would probably notice this, but slightly, slightly, slightly thicker in certain parts. and then getting the time to work on Glinda sort of like changed the way that they're shaped slightly. It almost smoothed them a little bit just because it strengthened that area that I wasn't spending as much time in.

24:47And I started three months before my first audition just because I wanted it to be as legit and healthy as possible by the time I got there in the room. But from then, we didn't have to worry about it anymore. So I could be just as emotionally focused and honest in what's happening in the scene so that it wasn't even a thing. So my voice became so much healthier and that's how. And I'm really grateful for that because even when I sing pop music now, it's drastically different. My relationship to my voice has forever changed. Thanks to Glinda. Wow. Okay. Last part. How did playing Glinda make you a better person?

25:24Oh my God, you can't ask me that. Oh my gosh. I don't know. I think she made me so much stronger. I think she made me so much stronger in certain ways. And I think she made me able to acknowledge certain parallels that we share that I'm proud that we share. one of the things that she does is she can take darkness and learn how to transmute it to something else you know and I think that's something that I've tried to do so many times in my life and um you know I just I feel like I've learned so much through the act of performing her when it comes to trust in self and strength and just tapping even more into that, you know, not being afraid of the things that make us similar.

26:26And it's been so healing. It's been so beautiful. I love her and I love Elphaba and I love Cynthia and all three have changed me for good. You had to do it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You guys have been on quite the promotional tour and now we're very, we're heading towards the end of awards season, but I'm curious what it's been like for you to be a part of the awards circus. And has there been anything sort of surreal or funny or surprising about this experience? I mean, every piece of it It has just been so insanely, like, just unfathomably wonderful and different and crazy. I never, like I said, you know, I put my blinders up and I kept my head down and I was so grateful to do the work.

27:19Playing Glinda was the greatest gift of my life. And all I wanted was to do that work every single day. So this was an unfathomable turn of events. I didn't expect to be a part of this conversation. I didn't think about it. You don't let your mind dream that far. You don't, you just, you know, I'm grateful to be here. I feel like I'm at sleepaway camp in a way. Like, I feel like I'm at a weird sleepaway camp where I see Ralph Fiennes every Thursday. And it's like the best thing in the world. Like, it's so lovely to see like my favorite actors and people who have inspired me for years and years.

27:55and to learn that they're lovely, warm people who just want to make art and see other great art and acknowledge their fellow artists and be a part of this community. And to discover that so many people I admire are just so nice and also just happy and grateful to be here. And again, you know, Ralph Fiennes. Why am I seeing him like three times a week? Like, it's the coolest thing. I love him so much. I love his work. I love, it's just so nice. It's true. It's true. We should all be so lucky to see Ralph Fiennes every Thursday. You know what I mean? It's just a silly example of how just, how insane it is.

28:39One of the things you guys did on your promotional tour was the Vanity Fair lie detector test, which I thought was such a fun video with you two. But you chose to sort of debunk all the like plastic surgery accusations. Oh, I chose. You, I mean, you were forced to. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I'll try that again. You were forced to debunk all the plastic surgery questions that have come your way and proved them false. But that was so fun. What was exciting about doing that kind of thing? Because you live such a public life. There's so many people who have opinions about you. I can't imagine what that life is like.

29:18You're still so open for a person that has lived through that, that I thought the way you approach it is really admirable, I think. Oh, that's so nice. This started funny and then it got really tender. I was giggling and now I'm kind of emotional. No, that's really kind. I mean, it was fun. It was so hilarious and I just, it caught me totally off guard, but it was really fun because that part of it all is so far from like reality in my brain and the realm of what my real, I don't know. It's just, it's just funny. So it was funny that it, that it came up and that we got to do that. And of course, put the BBL rumors to bed, you know, they've followed me for so many years.