Catching Up On This Season of TV

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2:04Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. John, we're recording this the morning after the Euphoria premiere. We got to go to that together. You know, nice big Hollywood premiere. How would you describe it? I would describe it like attending your high school reunion where everybody hates one another. What are you talking about? It was the cast didn't come up on stage. Very unusual for a premiere. Yeah. So the way it was set up was Casey Bloys, the president of HBO, made some announcements. He introduced Sam Levinson, the creator of Euphoria.

2:49He spoke, he gave a very nice speech. He mentioned that this season is a tribute to Angus Cloud, who played Fez on the show, but died of an accidental overdose a couple of years ago. And he got emotional, especially at the end. And he touched on themes that I think will be themes in this season. But then normally what happens after that is the creator-director introduces the cast up onto the stage, and, like, they stand there and wave, and everyone gets to take out their phones and see them all together as a group. That did not happen. Premiere started very late. About an hour late. However, excitement was high, and, like, just seeing them all together again, although not physically seated together or in any way, shape, or form, grouped together, you are reminded this show made so many stars.

3:50Yeah. I mean, it's incredible. And you felt that energy there. And I think seeing the first episode on the big screen, you really reminded me about how cinematic that show is. It's as big as a movie, I think. And they showed a sizzle reel of the last two seasons before it started. And we both turned to each other and were just like, man, I love this show. It's really well done and the performances are great. So there was, despite the little, you know, drama, I guess, I feel like you were reminded about what made that show so good. Yeah, we're going to do an episode all on Euphoria as the show airs so that people can watch it.

4:32And then I'm sure our listeners are going to have lots of opinions as well, because is this is a pretty big departure from the first two seasons, not just that it's five years later and they're no longer in high school, but tonally it's different. The characters are in very different places, and maybe they're not exactly aligned with how they are in the first two seasons. It's hard to imagine some of these characters change that much in five years, But you can tell Sam Levinson is trying to sort of make a different type of movie, essentially. And, you know, he mentioned some of his inspirations, a lot of westerns, action-adventure kind of filmmakers.

5:18So I think you'll feel that. But I can't wait to hear what people think about it. Because if there's one thing we know, this show creates discourse. So we're ready for it. Somebody who's been at the center of discourse for this past month is Zendaya, who stars in another movie that is being talked about a lot online, The Drama, which had a very, very solid opening for A24. and I think really solidifies her as like a true movie star who can open adult movies that are not based on, you know, IP that is Marvel or Dune. The movie hinges on this big twist. If you've seen the trailer, it's the scene where they're all at the dinner table and they say, what's the worst thing you ever did?

6:12You'll never guess it. So don't worry. but what's the thing that Zendaya's character did can't be spoken about until after you see the movie. Yeah. It had a solid opening. It wasn't like spectacular but I think it'll do well over the next couple of weeks because people who didn't see it are like, oh, everyone's talking about this movie and this twist and will, like the word of mouth I think is strong and people don't want to be left out from this conversation. So I think it'll hold and eventually make money. and the movie's good. I think it's a really fun movie to see in theater because, you know, you're kind of along for the ride with the audience in a way that makes it really fun to sort of be in that kind of space.

6:56So I recommend people go see it for sure. Yeah, you'll definitely talk about it afterwards, whether you like it or not. I wasn't quite as much of a fan as some other people were, but I appreciated it. And I go further. I think it was more than just solid. I think it was a really good opening, considering how difficult it was to market because you can't reveal a huge chunk of it. So they had to do a lot of tricks to get people to understand that what you're going in to see, there's going to be a twist, but we can't tell you the twist. And I think it's exciting for A24 especially because it's proving that these types of movies, like with this and the materialists work for them.

7:45Yeah, totally. All right, one last piece of big news I think we want to discuss that came out is the Oscars are moving, which I was pretty surprised by this news. You know, they've been at the Dolby Theater in Hollywood for a long time, but they're going to be moving after the 100th in two years. They're going to be moving to the LA Live, now called the Peacock Theater, but maybe not called the Peacock Theater by the time the Oscars happened there in downtown Los Angeles, which I'm not super jazzed about, to be honest. And neither is anyone else. No one wants to go downtown. And the thing is, other shows have been there, like the Emmys and the, what else, the Grammys.

8:32The Grammys are there, right? Yeah, it doesn't feel special because the thing about the Dolby is that was the Oscars' home. It was designed and built for the Oscars. The names of every Best Picture winner are listed on these big columns outside the theater. People go to those stairs to take pictures when they come to Los Angeles. Like, it's become iconic because of the Oscars. Well, the Hollywood Walk of Fame is right outside. Yeah. The Grammys are in L.A. Live, but I think they're in another venue than Peacock. It's just, it's not special. I mean, there's just no other way to say it. They used to do a lot more premieres down there.

9:10And even movie studios were like, ugh, it's just too dumpy. It's too difficult. The parking is a nightmare. Not to sound like we're in the Californians, the SNL sketch, but you got to take the 110 to the 10 and then get off. If you had heard me ranting last night trying to get out of Hollywood and Highland, I was the most L.A. version of myself. But, you know, it's a part of living here. It's just what it is. And then they also announced the dates for the Oscars and they're keeping it mid-March. I was wrong. I thought that they were going to move it up earlier, but they're keeping it mid-March and people are kind of grumbling about that too because it means that we have that super extended phase two, which felt too long this year.

10:06they have their reasons. I think it has to do with like television rights and sports. And, you know, we don't know nothing about sports, but I mean, moving it to downtown, it's like, okay, whatever, like you have to do what you have to do. Like, I think they plan on building up that theater and doing something special, but I had hoped that they moved it earlier in the season. I know. It's very surprising to me they didn't move it earlier because everyone I talked to in town who works or is involved with awards season was like, please, this has to be earlier. And we all kind of thought it was because of the Olympics that it was so late this year, but it's the exact same timing next year.

10:47And then 2028 will be March 5th, which is like a week earlier. But I think people were hoping for a little bit more. And then I think the last thing we should say before we jump into today's episode is that the Cannes lineup announcement comes out today, but we're going to dive deep into that next week to talk much more about that because we're getting pretty excited for Can. It's coming. Today on the show, we're leaving the movies behind and we're embracing our old friend television. And while it feels too early to be talking about the Emmys, which aren't until September, we're going to do a little bit of talking about the Emmys.

11:27Yeah, we're going to give sort of the big TV preview and talk about what we've been watching and loving and what you should probably catch up on before September rolls around. But we can't do it alone, so we are joined today by Vanity Fair special correspondent Joy Press. Hi, Joy. Hi, everybody. Thanks for joining us, Joy. I feel like it's nice to have you to come in just because there's always so much TV to cover. There's no way we could do it alone, and it's a hard job we've got. Someone's got to do it. Never ends. Don't you feel sorry for us? So, Joy, you know, we're just starting to get the lay of the land here, but is there anything you've noticed when it comes to sort of the narrative of TV this year so far based on the shows that have been popping or not working?

12:11It feels like a lot of genre shows have been popping. And, you know, I mean, I think if you like mysteries, if you like thrillers, if you like very intense melodrama, it's probably a good time to be watching TV. Those shows are so hard for me, I feel like, when the world is a little challenging right now. Are there ones you feel like are good examples of what have been working really well? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, everybody I know is talking about love story, which in a way combines romance and also an escape from the present moment, right? We're escaping back to the 1990s. And honestly, I feel like The Pit, in some ways, is like an escape to the 1990s, you know?

12:56It's like a return to really good network television. And that, I think, is another thing that, you know, we're really seeing right now is that kind of embrace of comfort food with maybe, in the case of The Pit, like comfort food with some gore on top. Yeah. Can you talk a little about the success of The Pit season one into season two? I feel like it is the show of the moment, right? It is the soup du jour, you know, like, because of how it's made and then the audience reception. Yeah, I think the first season of The Pit really swept the audience off its feet. And for a while, people in the industry have been talking about this idea of like, you know, elevated network programming, like going back to this sort of TV that spoke to a huge, broad audience and really captivated people and, you know, bringing it up to kind of prestige TV level.

13:56And it feels like The Pit really does that. It has created this core of characters, has running storylines, but also, you know, you could sort of tune in and just get swept up in it. And I think season two really picked up where it left off and, you know, served, unless you really don't like gore, and I have heard some people who've said, I can't watch The Pit. I do not want to see surgery. I do not want to see body parts. Was it me, Joy? Was it me you were talking to? You might have been one of them, Rebecca. I mean, I'm a little squeamish, but I feel like The Pit makes it worth it. There is enough going on between the characters.

14:39And, you know, honestly, there's also a little bit of social commentary in there. It feels like The Pit kind of has something for everyone. It's aimed at exactly that sweet spot that can just bring in a huge array of different viewers. Yeah. So the Pit is a huge hit and a huge success for HBO, HBO Max, whatever that is. I do not know now what's going on. I don't understand. And I, at this point, refuse to learn. What do we think, though, has not been working? I feel like Pit, Love Story, big successes in the past couple of months. But I've found that there's been a bunch of stuff that's aired that's been pretty quiet, too.

15:26I personally think it's a quieter TV season than in some years past. It feels like there's less shows that everyone was talking about. Like, the studio was such a big thing last year that everyone was talking. I know what you mean. I have a hard time thinking of things that have, like, bombed. But I think it's what you're saying. like things like the paper I thought would have a little more discourse around them, and it didn't. Well, you do have Alien Earth. Did that bomb? I would say that considering the huge budget and the enormous anticipation, I mean, it was this beloved IP. It was being done by, you know, Noah Hawley, who had done so well with Fargo.

16:07I would say that it was disappointing in terms of its reach. I don't know that I heard people talking about Alien Earth the way that you hear people talking about the pit. And maybe, you know, Night of the Seven Kingdoms, similarly. I mean, it's a much smaller show than Game of Thrones. It's a prequel. I think it was quieter by design. But, you know, it's a very different scenario in terms of people, you know, discussing Night of the Seven Kingdoms, you know, compared to Game of Thrones. It's a very odd show because it starts off feeling like it's going to be a buddy comedy. And then it completely flips the script.

16:46And, you know, it may be that by the second season, it'll pick up speed. But it was a quirky prequel. Let's put it that way. Yeah. When I walk out into the world and I talk to my regular friends who are not in this industry and not eating and breathing this every day, they watch The Pit. Like, they are all in on the pit. They love it. I went to my friend's kid's first birthday party was pit-themed. It was a joke. It was a joke. You know what I mean? But that's when I think television permeates the culture in a certain way. And that's when you know you've got something. Similarly for Love Story, the way the kids now are just like trying to recreate the 90s look.

17:36That's when you know, like you've hit something. Yeah, I think even like critically acclaimed shows like Pluribus is great, but it never, you know, beyond I think talking to my other friends who are in the business, Like, I don't think it really hit that level of conversation that you're talking about. So even the ones that I think are really well done, I don't know. There just haven't been as many moments. Obviously, I think the biggest moment we should talk about and just mention is, you know, heated rivalry was, I mean, we haven't seen something like that. Sorry, what is that? In a long time.

18:11But sadly for us, it's not Emmy eligible. So a real plumber. Which you know my feel. Yeah. You know, I feel like just change the rules. There's still time. Just be like, whatever. Break everything down for heated rivalry. Come on. It was the worst. What are we doing? I mean, we're not break everything down. All we're just going to say is like, yeah, this one time we just said, okay. What could we do? I mean, this is what you guys want. We're trying to make a TV show here. But Joy, let's talk a little bit about the television business. We're past peak TV, right? Quote unquote. Oh, that's so sad to use the past tense.

18:50But I mean, you know, Peak TV was the moment when all of the streamers were competing for an audience and throwing enormous amounts of money and talent at the wall. And the result of that was that we were drowning in great TV. And now we are lucky if we can scrape, you know, one or two good shows a month. And I think beyond just there being less TV, and there is much less TV than there was, I think the TV is much less adventurous. And I think that rather than trying to find something new and different that will, you know, make people subscribe to a streaming service, I think now people want to find something much like old broadcast TV that will attract a broader audience that will be sticky.

19:47You know, people will watch the whole thing. And so it's a much, much quieter time in television right now.

19:58We're going to take a quick break. When we get back, the comedies and dramas will be keeping an eye on this season.

20:14Hey, y 'all, Sam Sanders here. It's finally awards season. But year-round, we celebrate the best in film, TV, and pop culture and share the real stories behind all of it, Like the legendary costume designer Ruth E. Carter, who helped bring sinners to life. Or the wonderful actor and newly crowned Emmy winner Jeff Hiller. Plus the songwriter behind K-pop Demon Hunters, Mark Sonnenblick. Catch up on your award season faves every week on The Sam Sanders Show. Listen in the KCRW app, wherever you get your podcasts, and on YouTube. Mark your calendars. It's Way Day at Wayfair. From April 25th through the 27th, you can score the best deals in home.

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23:12Welcome back to Little Gold Men. All right, I think we should dive in and focus specifically on the shows that will be competing in the drama category. We've already talked a lot about The Pit. it's hard not to because it has been dominating basically since it debuted on television and season two is eligible this time and has been airing so I think we can all agree that's probably a real strong front runner here right yes absolutely okay so I think we should jump into other shows that we feel like have been working or seem promising if they haven't debuted yet because we do have a lot that's still upcoming but I think one we should talk about that was on a while ago is Pluribus.

23:56It did well at the Globes with Ray Sehorne's win. I feel like she does such an incredible performance. So I feel like that's a pretty strong contender. Are there other shows that you feel like could give the pit a run for its money? Give a run for its money? Or at least we'll be nominated. Challenge. Or exist alongside. I mean, I think, you know, in theory, Pluribus is this year's severance. You know, it is a kind kind of structurally daring show. I don't know that it had quite the level of excitement surrounding it as Severance did. I mean, I did really like Pluribus. I mean, it seems to me Euphoria, which I have not seen.

24:40The upcoming season certainly will be fresh in voters' minds. True, true. It is fresh. It'll be fresh. And it is technically called Euphoria. it's not euphoria but it retains the name of the original show and the characters names we're gonna do a lot of euphoria listen i can't get enough of sam levinson the discourse the discourse i eat it up i'm one of those people i'm i'm badly behaved that way i mean there's a show that I think had its strongest season in some ways, and I wonder if the Emmys will ever recognize it, and that's Industry. Yes. Which is Succession meets Gossip Girl meets... I don't even know.

25:33Skins, I think. Skins-ish, you know. But it's actually this season, they are now all adults living in this world. And I have to say the final two episodes of this season of Industry were probably the best thing I've seen on television all year, in my opinion, or at least on the drama side. But that show has never gotten love from the Emmys. And it's on its fourth season, and it is a show that you can't really jump into without having seen the previous seasons. So it'll be interesting to see if they're able to break that glass ceiling. I've been standing for industry for four years. I just went back to look.

26:19My season one review described it as a cross between euphoria and succession. So classic, you know, prestige TV. I do not really understand why industry didn't break through. That's not true. I do understand. I mean, the initial seasons of industry are very hard to watch. They speak a lot of finance jargon that is very difficult to penetrate. It is absolutely mesmerizing, and every season changes. And this season, I think, as you said, John, was kind of the most accessible yet. Certainly taps into a lot of contemporary scandals, shall we say, that make it fascinating. but I do wonder if in the fourth season, it has really picked up enough speed that Emmy voters are going to jump on it.

27:13I mean, I always have my fingers crossed, but I'm sort of, you know, tired of having my heart broken with industry. It's funny because I did not watch the show and then I felt like this season, outside of the walls of Vanity Fair, where Joy, you and Chris Murphy and lots of other people have been singing its praises, but I felt like more people were talking to me about it in a way that made me feel like I finally have to watch it. So I watched all four seasons. Oh, you did? I did. And I thought it was incredible. I will say I kind of liked the first two, like, grittier seasons better than this last season.

27:50But I do feel like there is more momentum behind this show than there has been for the last three and more awareness. So I think there's a chance, especially because it's sort of a weak year. So I think there might be room for it. I think because there's less television and HBO has stuck by this show, and the acting is top, top notch. Those two actresses, the leads, are incredible in it. Well, and Marissa Abella and Mahala Harrell, I mean, they're both better known now than they were when the show started. Certainly Kit Harington, you know, the Game of Thrones refugee, brought his name recognition to it.

28:32So, yeah, I mean, there's definitely... He's great on the show. He's fantastic. There are so many more famous people in this season. It's like they pulled in, I feel like, a lot of names. I guess with the show being such a success, that was easier to do. But I wanted to bring up Task, which is a show that feels like it debuted a while ago, but I thought it's just like a really captivating drama about Mark Ruffalo playing this FBI agent who sets up this task group to sort of find out who's robbing these drug houses. And it's just really well acted. I found it really gripping until the end and I think did really well with critics.