Charles Melton is Redefining the Himbo

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1:27Rated PG-13.

1:36Rebecca:Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. I'm Rebecca Ford. My guest today is Charles Melton, who stars in season two of the Netflix anthology series Beef, created by Lee Sung Jin, who goes by Sunny. Charles plays Austin, a former college football player turned personal trainer who works part-time at a ritzy country club. At the start of the show, Austin presents as your classic himbo. A good heart, but maybe not a lot going on upstairs. In one scene, he tries to save a bee he finds trapped in his house by offering it a drop of water from his fingertip.

2:13Rebecca:When the bee dies moments later, he's crestfallen and Texas fiancé Ashley, played by Kaylee Spaney, a bee died in the house. I cried. But by the final episode, Austin is transformed, hardened by the realities of a world where money, power, and social prowess determine your place in society. Charles and I caught up last month to talk about the ways he relates to Austin, what he learned about his time on the set of Riverdale, and the kinds of projects he's eager to take on next. Spoiler alert, we also discussed the controversial ending of Beef Season 2. But before that, I had to ask Charles about a very special and delicious gift I received from him a few years back.

2:57Rebecca:Hi, Charles. Hey, Rebecca. Thanks for joining me. I was a recipient of some of your kimchi during the May-December season. That was a really fun one. Can you tell me about that? Yeah. So I knew that Rebecca Ford would be one of the ones, yourself, receiving a jar of kimchi. And I just wanted to set myself up for the future. And now I'm so lucky to be on this Zoom with you. You play the long game. I play the long game. I play the long game. But my mom loves, she makes the best kimchi. I mean, We have four refrigerators at her house and winter kimchi, summer kimchi, spring kimchi, whatever kimchi.

3:42And like she was just making so much and we had so much extra. It's almost in a way expressing my identity. You know, it came natural for me where it's like, hey, like I love kimchi. I eat kimchi every day.

3:55Rebecca:My mom's love language is food too. It's an Asian mom thing. So I get it. Yes. All right. All right. So let's jump into beef here. Were you a fan of the first season? Did you watch it as it came out? What was your relationship with that first season? I was a massive fan. And I've been a fan of Steven Yeun and a follower of his art for a while. And I ended up meeting Sonny and Sonny pitched me the show after showing me a picture of myself that he said was hanging in the writer's room. And I just immediately know. I know even before reading anything, I just knew just based off of that interaction with him.

4:38I'm like, oh, the collaboration. Like I could just feel it and I could feel how open I became to him. And he just was like, you know, yeah, with Stephen, you know, Stephen's Korean American story. But like the half Korean, half American experience people don't ever talk about. And so I want to do something with that. And it was just like, you know, for me, exciting.

5:01Rebecca:So when you met him, though, he hadn't written the scripts. He just had the idea because from what I understand, you really helped shape this character with him. Yeah, he just had the idea. And he told me about Austin. And he talked about this guy who is so kind and sweet and empathetic. And all these things he was saying kind of translated and filtered in my mind. I was like, oh, whoa, this is like the deconstruction of like the male archetype, you know, where there's this immense vulnerability and introspective, you know, just this empathy. And then we talked about different styles and relationships.

5:45And he said Austin is, you know, he puts people on a pedestal. And I'm like, oh, codependent. I know a little bit about codependency in certain friendships and relationships when you're people pleasing at the expense of like for all these people. And it was, you know, we had a lot of conversations. It was very exciting and very funny. I would laugh a lot. And I think what was amazing with Austin and Sunny was that we got to collaborate and talk about so much about our own experiences living in Korea. What are experiences like growing up in the U.S. and being Korean American. And it just all informed and fed into Austin.

6:31And for me, I had to really kind of relinquish this sense of protectiveness that I have over Austin. Because he's the comic relief, he's not the comic relief. He's funny because he's so serious about these circumstances that he's in. And as an actor, that technically can be very difficult. But that's the kind of comedy I love where it's not the slapstick humor. It's actually everything you're experiencing. But I digress.

7:04Rebecca:Well, I think that's what this show, I mean, especially this season did so well. It's like, yeah, he's funny, but he's also so heartfelt and so genuine. And you care about him, you know. Yeah, you really do. It's, you know, someone was referencing Ryan Gosling and Brad Pitt. And what they do so well is they play these quote unquote himbo dumb characters. But the reality of what they're doing is injecting so much humanity. And that's what I had to do with Austin. And you see him slowly crack throughout the whole season. It's almost like he's trying to keep this mask on of who he thinks he is. but every sort of interaction with him confronting his identity to his relationship to the dream of having children then becoming a daunting reality you know to Eunice to his position in the workplace climbing the social ladder to all these different things like all these cracks his mask is crumbling simultaneously with his relationship so he's like kind of trying to put all the pieces together.

8:13That, to me, was very, it's fun, but difficult in the best way.

8:21Rebecca:We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, Charles and I give our takes on the Beef Season 2 finale. Stick around.

8:44Rebecca:Welcome back to Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair. Well, now that the show's been out for a while and this episode won't air till June, so I feel like it's safe for us to talk about the ending of the show. And I'm curious how you felt about Austin's choice to stay with Ashley and how did you come to understand it? Because it's controversial, I would say. I've talked to a lot of people who feel a lot of ways about it. Yeah, I'm more interested in the opinions of the audience watching. Like, what do you think? Did Austin make the right choice? I was very upset. And then I thought it was the right ending for this series and story.

9:27Yeah, I mean, I was in the car with James Laxton when we were filming that ending scene. And it was just him and I for like an hour and a half doing these extended takes.

9:38Rebecca:The cinematographer, yeah. The cinematographer. Yes. And I was getting some notes on the walkie talkie, but I knew this was like a very big moment for Austin. I wasn't thinking about the references that people have told me about where, you know, they describe the scene of The Graduate, where it's almost like this realization of like this choice you've made. and I think it paints a perfect picture on just like the reality of humanity like we have to make difficult decisions and there is no perfect decision and I think that's weighted with Austin maybe realizing if he went to Eunice in that moment it doesn't change the baggage that he carries.

10:22The fact is he chose his fiance that he was about to have a kid with opposed to this fantasy that kind of opened the door to his own identity and being Korean, you know, because he was more considered, Ashley's words, his fiance's words, Arizonian and in Korean. And he didn't even know what being Korean was. And so for me, I related to that too, because I kind of had this hunger when I moved out to LA, being a military kid, to pine for a Korean connection.

10:59Rebecca:If anyone was Korean or half, I was like, oh my gosh. I just wanted to soak it all up. So I did relate to Austin in that regard too. As someone who's also half, I'm half Chinese. And I feel like a lot of people have this experience where you reach an age where you sort of want to explore or the part of your heritage that was maybe less a part of your childhood. You know, I grew up in a very white area in California as well. Did you have like an epiphany moment where you, and I know you lived in Korea, so maybe it was a little different for you, but did you have a moment where you were really decided to search for that, I guess?

11:36It's interesting. I felt very Korean when I lived in Korea. And my mother, you know, her love language is food and Korean food, and she cooked every meal. and I thought that was enough but then when I moved out you know in different regions in the U.S. like living in Texas and Kansas everyone's like oh you're Asian but you don't look full Asian and then when I moved out to LA it was like oh you're HAPA so you're not Asian enough maybe you're just half of this and half of that and you're like what is my place which I think fed into like the work with Austin and just maybe what I could empathize with what he was feeling.

12:20But in my early 20s, when I left home and I was, you know, living in New York and in LA, I, I wanted to be more in touch with what it was to be Korean because I wasn't living with my mom anymore or my two younger sisters. So it's like, what is this identity that still lives within me? and you know obviously i'm maybe not too obvious to anyone unless they're half asian like ourselves we know another when we see them yeah it's an interesting thing to navigate identity but there's so many different forms of navigating identity right you get a new job or you get hired like your identity in a new workplace you know me being a former athlete and then pursuing acting, figuring out that identity in LA and New York and like Austin being a football player to figuring out his identity when he's not like the best football player anymore.

13:21And he's trying to be this trainer. There's just so many parallels that I find. That's what I love about Sonny too. It's because how amazing it is. I tell myself how amazing is it to just be a part of stories that are three-dimensional, complex, that is not limited by identity, but touches on it innately just by the mundane humanity and the complexity of humanity.

13:44Rebecca:Speaking of identity shifts, you became a dad pretty recently. I did. What's that been like for you? I have two kids, so I know how it goes, but tell me. Yeah, it's changed my life. My daughter's like three months. Wow. Congrats. You made it through the first three months. Thank you. Thank you. Just like watching my partner be the mother that she is, it's the most incredible, beautiful thing. I'm so just inspired and moved. My heart's completely opened up, you know? I understand time a little bit better now. The structure of time. That's a good way to put it. You've mentioned your mom a few times.

14:24Rebecca:It's very clear you guys have a special relationship. You brought her to her awards show. She has a little voice cameo in Beef. What did she teach you about being a parent? I mean, the way she raised me. You know, my mom loves, like, she was just always there. And I don't mean, like, there 24-7, but when she was there, she was there. And I know in my industry, in our industry, I mean, it's tough. like in the beginning, like leaving your kids, you know, to go get coffee or to go work out. But if anything, I think for my mom and my dad, especially my mom, just like learning the example of someone who's passionate and has so much love and richness in their life is like the great example to me as the father I hope to be, where my daughter can see me and her mom just pursuing our dreams and doing art and just so happy where she's like, oh, I can do that too.

15:22That's really beautiful.

15:23Rebecca:I'm going to make you sort of widen out to your career. And, you know, I know Riverdale was like a big jumping off point for you. And I'm curious how you describe the Riverdale fandom, because fandom is having sort of a moment where it can be very intense. But I feel like overall, the Riverdale fandom seems not as intense in a way and not in a negative way but I'm curious what the experience was like for you amazing Riverdale was amazing to me the fandom was amazing it brought in a certain notoriety of celebrity I still have Riverdale fans come up to me and I'm like oh we're like the same age now we're getting older I'm not a 32 year old playing a 16 year old in high school anymore and you know it was such a blessing I know for me because I was on that show for seven years and I was working 10 months out of the year in Vancouver and I was able to just refine my craft and we did 22 episodes every year.

16:29I don't think they shoot TV like that anymore. And then, you know, I think for me, I remember having a conversation with my dad where it's like, everything is a stepping stone. Like you could have all these dreams and these aspirations, but like, what are the things that are like being revealed to you in the work? And Riverdale revealed so much to me. And that led to me, you know, doing May, December.

16:55Rebecca:Well, May, December was such a huge moment. I love that movie, but I assume it probably opened up, you know, more adult roles, really interesting projects for you. How did you approach what you did next. Yeah, I mean, I'm filmmaker driven. So my experience with Todd Haynes, he's one of the greatest filmmakers of all time. He's a pioneer. And just the way that process was like, it just, I kind of felt like I discovered, you know, that experience, that role, just the kind of work that I wanted to do. It's always great to think about being a lead in something, but I'd rather be a part of something great than just have like a great performance in something that's maybe not so good but I think that's a risk that every actor takes every artist takes you know you're not really thinking about the final product I mean for me it's just a feeling I get like when I read something I'm like oh I read this script the other day that I was sobbing for 20 minutes after I finished the script and I was just like oh it's like a fresh breath of air because you're like, ooh, this part of my soul, it's like ready now at 35 years old for me to explore.

18:10I mean, I think the idea of wanting to do serious roles and all these things, I just think whatever speaks to you, if it speaks to a part of your soul, then do it.

18:21Rebecca:Coming up, Charles reflects on life post-May-December and the filmmaker shaping the next chapter of his career. Stick around.

18:44Rebecca:Welcome back to Little Gold Men. So your next projects are with Nicholas Wining Refn and then Greg Cuidar and Clint Bentley, the pair who did Train Dreams. And Sing Sing. And Sing Sing, yeah. That's quite a group of auteurs, essentially. And Refn hasn't made a film in 10 years. So what was it about Refn that made you want to be a part of that project? Refn. It was Refn. You know, his work, he's a beautiful painter and he paints with colors and the cinematography. And this unreality that he kind of creates for you to exist in as the artist is the best. We made that movie with very little money.

19:27But I mean, that experience was some of the best 56 days of my life. And I got to do action. There's a lot of action. Cool. And he was like, you're going to be a superhero. So I did my superhero movie with Nick Winding Rabbit.

19:42Rebecca:I think that's the way to do it. Yeah. Yeah. And then Greg. Yeah. I love him so much. I was just talking to him before I hopped on with you. That was a very magical experience. Filming Saturday in return. And I got to film with my best friend, Will Poulter. so that was just kind of like the soup i say soup a lot you know i kind of feel like the whole making of a movie and the creative process is this soup it's just the best greg and i are going to do many films together yeah we got that plan yeah they're both like such visual visionaries i think i see what you gravitate towards looking at the filmmakers you've worked with i love when Even filmmakers are like, they have this vision.

20:25They have this North Star. They don't quite know how to get there. They don't know the process to get there quite yet, and they're discovering it in collaboration with you. I love that, where it's like, okay, it's not so rigid in the sense of we're going to do it like this. This is it. This is how it's written. It's like, no, there's a constant evolution. And it's exciting for me, and I'm just like, I don't know what to expect.

20:51Rebecca:Do you know that upon like your first conversation with a filmmaker, if they're going to have the right vibe for you? I get a good sense. Yeah. I get a good sense. Because I think a lot of it's like subconscious. You know, it's like good vibes. If you feel a vibe, you're like, oh, I really like this person. I like how they're talking about certain things. Like, for example, Refn, it was like a Q &A. He was asking me, like, what do you think about this? He was, I knew what he was doing. he wanted to see like how I saw the world how I thought about certain things which I thought was very interesting I think every filmmaker kind of does that in a way and I think you know first-time filmmakers whoever it is like I think you just get a feeling like oh I'm willing to go into the unknown with you because I trust you I don't know why I trust you but let's see how it comes through in the work you know yeah and like i think that cherry on top is you know if you're working with a filmmaker that has incredible credits but like i don't really look at that i try not to but like you know i'm always like oh todd haynes did far from heaven you know right or you know velvet goldmine or like alex garland did ex machina sunny did season one refin did the pusher trilogy you know, Drive, Neon Demon.

22:18I feel like I'm kind of like boasting a little bit. I'm just very lucky to be working with these filmmakers.

22:23Rebecca:It's quite a list that you've worked with lately. Yeah, and no one was ever like, oh, we're just coming to talk to you because you're Korean. You know, it was because of the work, which was so cool. Right. You know, I'm like, oh, like, yeah. All right, you ready? Lightning round. Okay. They're sort of beef themed, as you'll see. what's the silliest thing you've ever gotten into a fight about oh my gosh there's so many different things I like scoffed at my sister we're just like watching tv I'm probably half of this is probably gonna be made up but the essence is gonna be there we're just like next to each other and I just scoffed at her and then she got an attitude and was like I'm leaving uh then I scoffed at that I was like why are you leaving and she was like because of your face like you scoffed at me and I was like what but i didn't want her to leave it was just so stupid siblings siblings yeah all right what's the best form of revenge kindness i knew you're gonna say that kindness but i'm telling you i can live that revenge and beef in films in the work but kindness in reality it's kindness you know there's no time to be petty even though a lot of people are petty and it may feel nice for a second, but if you want to experience revenge, watch I Saw the Devil by Kim Ji-Woon.

23:49The Korean film that is intense revenge.

23:52Rebecca:We'll jump to this one since you just said that. I've read that you're pretty well versed in Korean cinema. If you had to only pick one movie to be your favorite from the library of Korean cinema, what would you pick? I'm not going to say Parasite. Yeah. Because that's a no-brainer. Mm-hmm. Old boy. what is it about that movie that you love