Emmy Nominations: Snubs, Surprises, and Embracing the Weird

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2:00Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. Well, John, the Emmy nominations are out and we have some thoughts about them and about the recently announced host, Mariska Hargitay. But first, we've been on a bit of a break for a couple weeks, so I thought we should catch up on everything that's been happening in the industry. First off, we're back. We're well-rested. Where to start? I guess the biggest story, or one of the most intriguing stories, is Amazon dropping the Luca Guadagnino-Sam Altman movie called Artificial.

2:42It was supposed to come out not this year, but next year. Neon purchased it, and now it is coming out this year. And there is a lot of industry chatter about the reasons why it was dropped from the studio. Amazon did sort of like do right by like not trying to price the movie out of other buyers buying it. So like they kind of did release it in a clean-ish way. So I guess that was nice. And now it has a home with Neon, which it's funny, in the last two weeks, this movie has gotten a lot of press. Right. And now I think everyone really wants to see it, right? Yeah. I mean, Neon is going to really sit in the fall.

3:29So it's going to be an awards contender this year. So I think that's really smart because people are now aware of this movie and curious about it. And I mean, they have a whole narrative they can do here where if you're someone who wants to fight against the growing power of tech titans, like here's your chance to see a movie. So it reminds me a little bit of what happened with The Apprentice. when a project feels a little dangerous. And The Apprentice got nominations. So I think it's going to be something we're watching closely all season. I texted with a few buyers who had seen it, and the reactions were mixed.

4:08No one is screaming from the rafters about how incredible it was, but no one was saying it's bad. A source tied to the project told me that the test screenings went quite well, but they're tied to the project. So, you know, we'll just have to kind of wait and see it. But I think Neon's a great home for it. Like, I think they know how to release a movie like this. And it also is like encroaching on the social reckoning, which is the movie about Zuckerberg. That's like kind of a follow up to the social network. But now there's this other movie that feels like maybe a little fresher and maybe even more current than that because it's about AI.

4:45So very interesting. I mean, we haven't seen anything other than there were photos of them on set in Italy. So, like, we've seen some, like, you know, paparazzi shots. But, yeah, nothing official. Yeah, I have a first look on Social Reckoning up at VanityFair.com that, you know, I talked to the director, writer, Aaron Sorkin about it. And I'm very curious to see both. And we'll see where they sort of land if they do fall festivals in the next probably few weeks. Those announcements will start. We should also probably talk about some box office. There were some big hits. There were some big misses that have happened.

5:22So I'll start with The Invite because that, I think, is a real Sundance success story. The film is, like, people are just, like, clamoring to talk about how much they love this film. And I've seen some, like, Oscar mentions, but it also has done well in its limited release. And the box office is strong. So that's a real success story, I think, out of Sundance, especially. I agree. A great success. It seems like the platform releasing that A24 is doing for it is really smart, word of mouth, all the right things. And then Obsession, which has been our obsession for a while now because of its success, cracked 400 million worldwide at the box office, a massive number for this little movie.

6:11Spoiler alert, I still haven't seen it because it's too scary for me. But very happy for its success. Very happy for the future big careers to come out of this movie. It's a really incredible number. The word of mouth is incredible. I think people like, they're like, oh, it's still playing in theaters. Let's go see that. Yeah. And what they're definitely saying is let's go see that over Supergirl. Right. Or Masters of the Universe. So it's this trend that is kind of happening right now where like these original films are really overperforming. So yay. Supergirl really, really struggled. and I really like Millie Alcock.

6:57I think she's a really fun actress. I think she's cool. I don't know why they did a Supergirl movie before they had a Superman sequel. It feels like out of order to me, but I don't know. Yeah, it had a like 77 % decline in its second week. I mean, it's really bad for a superhero movie and also Minions and Monsters was like a franchise low debut. this past week. So you're right. These franchise movies are struggling. But I think, you know, we've got things coming up that I think will do pretty well. I mean, Spider-Man's going to be huge, I think, still. We have one really big thing coming up. Oh, yes.

7:41We will be talking about it very soon on this podcast. Yeah. And it's big. Yes, definitely tune in. Next week, we'll be talking all about The Odyssey. but let's get back to our main topic of the day, television. The Emmy nominations were announced this morning and I'm excited to dig in. And we're joined by two Little Gold Men favorites, our New York correspondent, Chris Murphy. Hi, Chris. Hi, hi. It's fun to be back. Thanks for having me. And special correspondent, Joy Press. Hi, Joy. Hi, good to be here. I love the chaos of trying to sum up a billion awards categories in one podcast, but we are gonna do it.

8:23I guess I'd start with the big headline is The Pit and Hacks led the day. The Pit had 25 nominations. Hacks had 24. I don't think that was surprising to anyone. From there, I think there are a lot of surprises. John, you want to start with something I think you were especially excited about? What was the only thing I got right?

8:46Yeah, so I was excited for it both personally and professionally. Widow's Bay really overperformed. It got 19 nominations. It got in for Best Comedy Series. Matthew Rhys is a double nominee for Widow's Bay and Comedy, and then The Beast in Me for Limited Series. And then it just got a host of other nominations. And the question was, did the show peak too late, or did it peak at the exact right time? And the answer was it peaked at the exact right time. The industry was watching Widow's Bay, the two weeks of voting. Yeah, I mean, that's certainly when I watched it. Right. I just heard great word of mouth and was like, okay, let me download Apple TV Plus again and you get into it.

9:33And I definitely enjoyed it. Careful, Chris. I know. Everyone's watching Apple TV Plus according to the Emmy nominations. Well, yeah, I mean, that seems like the really big headline. I mean, Apple has just kind of shot up in these, I mean, between Widow's Bay and Pluribus and a couple of other shows, they've climbed up into the top of the nominations. Yeah. I mean, your friends and neighbors getting in. I know. Shocking. Shocking. And that is actually making me want to go watch that. So congrats to Jon Hamm for that. I think they were third behind HBO and Netflix. But, you know, I mean, they had Your Friends and Neighbors, Slow Horses, Margo's Got Money Troubles, which was a new show.

10:15Shrinking. Yeah, shrinking. It felt like really people are finally watching, or the voters at least, are really watching Apple TV+. I'm not totally surprised because they are kind of creating, you know, second to HBO, super high quality programming. Yeah, it's definitely evolved from being more than just the home of Ted Lasso. And it's kind of cool to see a new streamer sort of take some ground and make a case for themselves. And now there are definitely some Apple TV shows that I have slept on that I am going to check out now because of Emmy nominations. Well, yeah, I mean, Widows Bay and Pluribus are really unusual.

10:55I mean, in Pluribus' case, slightly challenging shows. and it takes a certain amount of nerve to put money behind those shows. We should talk a little bit about The Bear. I think in our predictions episode, we were predicting that it would fall quite a bit from its massive success in the early years. And I think we were right. Jeremy Allen White did not get nominated, which I think was a huge snub because obviously he'd been nominated every other season and had won before. Yeah, it was weird that Ayo got a nomination, but not Jeremy or Eben. Yeah, lead actress nomination, too. This last season was Ayo's season.

11:35Yeah, I mean, they got eight nominations, which is like such a change from, you know, in 2024, they won 11 awards. So it's quite a fall for them, but I think they actually did about what I sort of expected this year. They held on, though, to landing a comedy series nomination. So they kind of did, I think, a little better than I was predicting. So we'll see. Joy, any other like happy surprises that really stood out to you? Yeah, I mean, I'm a big Cluribus fan. I was really surprised to see two of the supporting actors. Because Ray Sehorne really, really carries the show. I mean, I think she's like 90 % of the show.

12:19So to see, you know, Carolina Weidra and Carlos Manuel Vesca get supporting actors, I mean, that was really nice. They were really good. And, I mean, I was surprised by Riz Ahmed for Bait. I just didn't know a lot of people watched that show. So, oh, and Night of the Seven Kingdoms, which I felt like was sort of, you know, under-talked about, even though it was a Game of Thrones universe show. But I was surprised to see Night of the Seven Kingdoms get a big nomination. Yeah, Night of the Seven Kingdoms surprised me. I had not put that on my predictions list because I just felt like people weren't talking about this show, but obviously it's an incredibly well-done show.

13:00I just wasn't aware of the audience being there to support it. Yeah, I don't understand audiences because if we're going to go to snubs now, my beloved, I should say, our beloved Joy industry completely blanked. And I feel like that was one of the only shows people we're watching and talking about in my circles, on my feeds, in my algorithm. So I guess I live in a bubble and that's okay. I'm happy to be in the bubble. The Academy got it wrong. Industry is younger and more beautiful than any of these nominees. And it should have been included Mahala, Marissa Abella, Kit Harington, incredible performances across the board.

13:37I do think it is like wild and sort of gives it more street cred that it continually gets ignored, but I cannot wrap my head around it. Chris, I want to live with you in your industry bubble. I mean, I don't understand it. But I mean, there are many great shows in television history who got completely blanked. So, I mean, they join, you know, quite a nice crowd of great shows that have just been completely ignored. Do we think the show is just like has too young of an audience? The Emmys to me are always so hard to predict because like Widow's Bay is, maybe it's not young, but it's weird. It's doing something pretty strange.

14:14And so I don't think that Emmy voters are like so straight and narrow that they don't like things that are edgy. I mean, industry is really edgy. Industry is really edgy. Euphoria, which was bad this season, didn't get any nominations except Zendaya, which is well-deserved, even though I thought maybe Sidney Sweeney could sneak in there because she got a lot of great reviews. I thought she was going to, too. Yeah, so that's kind of another snub, I would say. Everyone else, not a snub at all because this season was bad. Well, Rebecca, for you, yeah, what was a big surprise or snub for you? I was really surprised about Paul Anthony Kelly for Love Story.

14:49I mean, I knew Sarah Pidgeon was a lock, but I felt like they kind of went as a pair. Obviously, the whole story is about them as partners and they've been doing a lot of their, you know, promotion together. I thought that was really surprising. I know he didn't get quite as much critical acclaim for his role, But I think he really delivered playing this like iconic person. And, you know, he was such a discovery. So that surprised me quite a bit. I'm not sure how to explain it. I was sad not to see, you know, Paul Anthony Kelly get in there, golden retriever of a guy, just a really good guy who does a really good job.

15:24I think with a really hard, arguably harder part to pull off just because he was so much more well known and there's so much more footage and tape of him. So you could say that was a higher bar. I mean, Sarah Pidgeon was incredible, knocked it out of the park, and I do think ran away with the series. But it would have been nice to see him there. I think he'll be fine. I also think the Emmys were a little bit lighter on Love Story than I would have expected. Grace Gummer, who I thought gave a wonderful supporting performance, especially in the last episode, didn't make it in. However, Constance Simmer did, who played Carolyn Bessette's mother.

15:58So I don't know. I think I thought just given the hype and how many people watched it. And again, my industry love story bubble, I got to look at my bubbles. What your bubbles say about you. What my bubbles say about me. I thought it would get more love. But I'm really happy to see Sarah Pidgeon in there because it's really well-deserved and just like a true star-making television performance. I think that it's the same with the Oscars. Young, hot actors sometimes have a little bit of a difficulty breaking through with these voting. Yeah, male actors. Male actors. Now, that's not always the case.

16:31I mean, you know, Jeremy Allen White for the Bear, nominated one twice. But I think with Paul Anthony Kelly, it may have been more like, well, he looks like him. So they kind of like didn't give him his due. I agree with you, Chris. He had a tricky role because when you see him in person and you meet him in person, he doesn't share any really of the mannerisms of JFK Jr. And certainly not the voice. and then he embodied it so well in the show. But when you see like a photo of him, you are like, oh, that man, like that person could do JFK Jr. for Halloween real easy. And so that is a kind of bias.

17:16I agree also the show sort of didn't get the full love of like when you can tell the full voting body is totally embracing something. I wonder if that's a little bit of like the popularity effect and it's like you know it was the most popular girl at the school this year you know everyone was talking about love story I have a feeling both stars will be fine yeah me too The other thing I noticed is, you know, Taylor Sheridan, every season people say, is this the year Taylor Sheridan shows breakthrough? And this is not the year. It did not happen. And I think they had a lot of hopes for the Madison.

17:58You know, I had heard, I'd been pitched the show as sort of like this could be the Emmy contender. And the TV Academy just doesn't go for it. But I guess he said in a recent interview that he doesn't care about awards. So maybe he's fine with it. But it did not break through once again. And so I think that's, I guess, just going to be the way with those shows that are very successful otherwise with audiences. Yeah, I'm sure all the money helps. Yeah, they're fine. They're also fine. The money does help. No, the only last thing we'll say is that Connor Story did get a nomination, not for Heated Rivalry, but for guest star in SNL.

18:33And by the way, the only guest host this year to get a nomination for SNL, which is, yeah, not nothing. Good for Connor. They got to figure out a way to get him to the Emmys. We're going to take a break. You can check out all of the snubs and surprises, as well as the full nominations list on VanityFair.com. And when we get back, let's dig into the rest of the categories.

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20:56Welcome back to Little Gold Men. So let's run through the major categories and talk about the nominees. I thought we could start with drama series because I had to predict this category and I actually got it pretty wrong. But I'll just read off the nominees really quick. The Diplomat, The Gilded Age, A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, Paradise, The Pit, Pluribus, Slow Horses, and Your Friends and Neighbors. No one could have predicted that one, though. I know. It's wild. I mean, it does feel like The Pit. I should say a surprise here is, you know, everyone knew in the industry The Pit was going to walk away with a lot of nominations, if not the most.

21:35But I feel like maybe some of The Pit fans are upset given their response to the season. and some of the discourse that that show generated from people who claim to be really big fans of the series. So it does feel like it's still beloved by the industry, but it just, you know, there's some toxic fans. And please read my article on VanityFair.com about that. The Pit was an underdog last year against Severance, but now is no longer. So it'll be interesting narrative-wise how they can position it because it's now the most popular show on television. Should we do best lead actor in a drama series?

22:15Sterling, Kay Brown, Paradise, Gary Oldman, Slow Horses, Mark Ruffalo, Task, Rufus Sewell, The Diplomat, and of course, Noah Wiley, The Pit. Any big surprises? Those seem like exactly what I would have imagined. Yeah, I was surprised Task didn't make it into drama series so I was relieved to see that the actors did. But yeah, I think this list was pretty much what we expected it to be. On to lead actress in a drama series. We've got Carrie Coon for The Gilded Age, Chase Infinity for The Testaments, Carrie Russell for The Diplomat, Rhea Sehorne for Pluribus, and Zendaya for Euphoria. I thought Chase Infinity was so cool that she got in here.

22:57Me too. I brought her up, I think, in our predictions episode because I felt like she, you know, people know her, obviously, from one battle after another, and being in the Oscar season, even though she didn't get nominated. So to see her get this nomination, the only nomination for The Testaments was really cool because I think she really deserved it and really, you know, pounded the pavement the last few months to make sure the show got attention. Yeah, not that she's ever in danger of being like a one-hit wonder, but, you know, having such a big debut in the Oscar-winning Best Picture, leading, you know, a film with Leonardo DiCaprio that wins the Best Picture.

23:29At the Oscars, you could wonder, like, okay, how do you follow that up? What would that look like? And of course, this was already in the works before that, but it's really nice to see that it wasn't a fluke. She's got the chops. People are paying attention to her. And the next generation of Hollywood starlets is alive and well. And what do we think about Zendaya being on this list again? Good for her. I mean, she's incredible in that show. I predicted that they would nominate her again. I think they just do it sight unseen. And she put in the work. And they did. She's great in the show. She's great in the show.

24:00She is great in the show. She's the whole show, regardless of what people think of this season. The character Rue is like, will go down as one of the more influential characters in television in the past 50 years. And so she's going to get nominated, even if maybe they didn't watch this season. But here's my question. Does she go to the Emmys? She hasn't done a lot for this show. Oh, that's such a great question. Oof. I mean, she loves her red carpet. She does that part of it. Yeah, I know. If I were to place a calci bed, I'm betting no. You don't think so, Chris? I don't think so. I think she's got the Odyssey.

24:38She's doing that. I don't think she comes to this. That's wild. I mean, that would be a star move. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. I would say no, but she's such a savvy, professional actress. So it's like the answer is no as it relates to she doesn't want to be associated with euphoria anymore. We understand that. However, in terms of like the Emmys overall as an organization, is that a big enough organization that she doesn't want to sort of piss them off by not showing up? That's the question. That's the question. I feel like Ray Sehorne is definitely going to win this. So I don't think Sunday has to worry about having to win and not be there.

25:20So I guess we'll see. Oh, and quickly before we leave, happy to see Carrie Coon for The Gilded Age in there. Great. Yeah, of course. Great actress, great person. beautiful gowns happy for them she's so good on this show I love her on this show I love this show I don't care what people say I'm right there with you in that bubble yeah she's television royalty now Carrie Coon yeah definitely and now we're going to talk about outstanding supporting actor in a drama series the nominees are Patrick Ball in The Pit Billy Crudup The Morning Show Sean Haddesey The Pit Garen Howell The Pit Jack Loudon Slow Horses Tom Pelfrey, Task, and Carlos Manuel Vesca for Pluribus.