Emmys Nominations: 'The Studio,' 'Severance' Reign, Shocking Snubs, and Love for 'Somebody Somewhere'

0:04Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. I'm David Canfield. I'm Richard Lawson. And I'm Rebecca Ford. Welcome back, Rebecca. You are here just in time for Emmy nominations. It is Tuesday morning here in Los Angeles. They were announced by Brenda Song and Harvey Guillen. Some surprises, some snubs, a lot of what we were expecting. and we are ready to get into all of it. In addition to just talking about how we did on our predictions, I think pretty well, right guys? Yeah, we did pretty well. I think just the most extreme of surprises got us. Yeah, we didn't see Megan Fahey coming.

0:41No, who could? There were plenty of categories where it was exactly what was predicted. Yes, I'm going to be asking Rebecca about the Sirens nominations for about 10 minutes. Probably not the headline that Sirens got for nominations, but maybe it's our headline. Technically speaking, the headline is probably that Severance got 27 nominations for its second season. And when we think about just how much of a question mark that show was before it returned after such a long break with so much reporting of behind-the-scenes drama, it's a pretty remarkable turnaround. And then meanwhile, a show that did seem much more solid at one point as an Emmy player, Squid Game, which won a bunch of Emmys for its first season, got zero nominations in the drama races.

1:25So let's start there. That's quite a discrepancy, but I was pretty shocked by just how badly Squid Game performed. Yeah, considering what a phenomenon it was in its first season, though I will say that there was a big gap in time. But also, that second season is really half of one season. Season three picks up exactly where season two ends. And I wonder if maybe voters are waiting, but maybe that's going to be a little too late. Yeah, I really, really was shocked that it didn't at least perform below the line. I mean, the production design on that show is some of the most incredible stuff we've seen on TV.

2:03So for it not to land in some of those below the line categories, is really, really surprising. And I can't honestly explain it other than I just feel like people were not talking about this second season. I mean, the first season was such a sort of discovery for everyone. And I think that was a big part of its success. But I mean, it won six Emmys last time. So to not even be nominated is quite surprising. Yeah, I think the second season fell into that category of Netflix show where you see how many millions, billions of minutes were watched and you're like, huh? Because while obviously the first season was a phenomenon and the second season, you know, I know some people who watched it, it really was not a talking point culturally.

2:50It did fall into the category of like the Night Agent or these shows that perform very well in the streamer but are not really campaigned or taken seriously in awards context. It did feel like it just made that shift into commercial hit and maybe because it was such an Emmys player previously, we didn't quite, you know, acknowledge that to the extent that we needed to accurately predict how badly it would do. I just, I guess I wasn't surprised it missed out in any particular category. I was just surprised that it missed out in all of them. I wonder if maybe there's a little, yeah, like you said, David, that it became this populist hit rather than a critical hit.

3:25There was a reality show, you know, they really did kind of flood the market with Squid Game stuff for a while there. So maybe, yeah, people just are viewing that show differently. Although, you know, the third season does, you know, tie up a lot of loose ends, not all, but it does feel like a conclusion and there is some really strong stuff in there. So maybe its story isn't quite over yet. I do think with the first season, we maybe sort of took for granted how much success they had because on paper, a Korean language television show with no actors that any American audience, most of the American audience didn't know, should not have done as well as it did.

4:02So, you know, obviously Netflix put a lot of money and a lot of effort behind that. So I think, you know, then they set such a high bar for themselves for this second season. So I do want to acknowledge that it's pretty amazing what they were able to do with the first season. But yeah, it's quite a fall. And not to like put this in sort of cynical or crass terms, but I also think the first season of Squid Game was just that much closer to the Parasite phenomenon. And I think the Emmys kind of wanted their version of that, you know. and once that's been satisfied, like, are they actually still interested or was it just a passing trend?

4:34It shouldn't be because Korean content is popular the world over and it's just as, you know, sort of beloved as anything coming out of the States. But I don't know, it maybe was sort of just like a flash in the pan moment for the Emmys. And then I guess, again, they got other shows that just distracted them away from something they'd seen before. In comedy series, the studio led all nominees with 23 nominations, and Hax was right behind with 14. The limited series races were led by the Penguin and Adolescents. We pretty much expected all of that. But let's stick with drama for a moment. The rest of the nominees for Best Drama Series, in addition to Severance, were Andor, The Diplomat, The Last of Us, Paradise, The Pit, Slow Horses, and The White Lotus.

5:21I believe this is exactly what Vanity Fair predicted, so good job, us. I think that the sheer dominance of severance here is something that I remember when the second season ended and we talked about it and I was just fully, you know, this is going to be the winner of this race. This is done. I was on that train and the pit complicated that picture quite a bit, but I kind of am back there right now. The Pitt got 13 nominations, certainly a respectable showing, but in a lot of places where it could have been nominated, Severance just sort of blew it out of the water. I never left the Severance house.

5:59Me and my innie have been sitting in the Severance. I just, yeah, I felt so strongly that it is the front runner. And I think, yeah, these numbers really speak to that. There were a few, I think, the Pitt actors that, you know, some people were hoping would get nominations and didn't. So it feels like there just weren't any snubs for Severance. You know, they just did so well. Yeah, and it's an example yet again of the Television Academy really not honoring the fact that I haven't watched the second season of Severance, and therefore it doesn't really matter. But they don't really seem to care about that.

6:33No, but now I'm like, okay, I really do actually have to watch that season. Because there are so many actors from Severance who were nominated, you know, like leads, supporting, guests. It's just like, it's really wild, like how deep that show goes. The one thing that surprised me with that show, in terms of its showing was Patricia Arquette got nominated again, but Deachan Lachman, who had, between her and Patricia Arquette, the more well-received spotlight episode, let's say, was not nominated. So I guess you could call that a snub, maybe. But unfortunately for Deachan Lachman, there were many White Lotus actresses she had to navigate and could not ultimately overtake.

7:14This year, four supporting actresses were nominated from the White Lotus. Natasha Rothwell, Parker Posey, Amy Lou Wood, and I think it's safe to say the frontrunner Carrie Coon. Three supporting actors were nominated, Sam Rockwell, Jason Isaacs, and Walton Goggins, who I think is the frontrunner there. So The White Lotus continues to be the absolute favorite of the actors branch, and that is not even close to changing. Yeah, and I think that unfortunately, as good as those White Lotus actors are, they just really crowded the room. And, you know, I wrote a little, like, credicore for VF.com about, like, where are all the Andor actors?

7:49Like Forrest Whitaker got in, but no one else did. And there are so many great supporting performances on that show. It's just there was no room for them. I'm not sure what it is about the drama field, but this happened very recently with Succession and the White Lotus. I think they had like entire acting categories to themselves. And there are other dramas that they like that have a lot of great actors on them. I mean, Andor performed very well. It got 14 total nominations. It was nominated in writing and directing and all over the technical categories, the only actor nominated was Forrest Whitaker for guest actor.

8:24And as a fan of Forrest Whitaker, that is absolutely bizarre to me. I think it's one of the parts of the season that didn't really work. And generally speaking, anyone who watched that show, and we know a lot of people in the Television Academy who watched that show, would know just how worthy some of those performances are. I just wonder if with White Lotus, it's like other actors are watching that show and they're just like, I would kill for that part. I would kill for that part. I would love to do that part. I wish it could be Carrie Coon. I wish it could be Amy Lou. The writing and just what those actors get to do, it's hard.

8:58I just think as an actor, it'd be so hard to not vote for them because you almost have a jealousy factor of some of the best opportunity on television, I think. If I vote for the White Lotus actor this year, karma will reward me with the White Lotus role next time. That's definitely how it works. Richard, given that Andor did perform as well as it did, what do you make of the actors not getting in? What do you think happened there? I think it's a couple factors. I think there is, you know, obviously there's not a Star Wars bias at the Academy. They dominated Mandalorian. Like, those shows have done pretty well with the Emmys.

9:33There might still be a little lingering of that. I think it's partly that, aside from Stellan Skarsgård and maybe one or two others, these are not really names that people are intimately familiar with, in the U.S., at least. Denise Goff, Kyle Soller, an American actor who largely works at the UK, Genevieve O 'Reilly, a British actress. I think maybe there just wasn't the name recognition. And when you have like Parker Posey on that same ballot, it's just kind of, I think, easier. I also think that Andor is pretty dense. And so if you didn't make enough people clearly have watched both seasons to recognize the good work, but maybe if you're more of a dilettante and you're like, I don't know, that show plot wise, it's a little impenetrable.

10:13The White Lotus is much more accessible because because each season's a new story. So, yeah, I think there are a lot of complicating factors, but I'm glad that the show was recognized where it was. I just think, you know, there are a lot of great performances that, in a perfect world, would also get their due. The acting branch clearly elevated Paradise, which was nominated for Best Drama. All of its other nominations were for performances. Sterling K. Brown got in most expectedly. I was delighted to see double nominee Julian Nicholson for both this and Hacks as a guest actress. And James Marsden also got in.

10:49So that's one case where I do wonder how that happens over a show like Andor. As good as James Marsden is on the show, it's not a performance that I think got talked about all that much. So it also just depends on where specific branches are focusing their attention. Although again, he does have the name recognition. Yeah, and I think like, look, Britt Lauer didn't get nominated for the first season of Severance did. it takes people a little bit of time. And like Andor had two seasons too, but I think still people are, when you watch Andor, you're watching those characters. You're just less familiar with the actor.

11:22Rebecca, what do you make of the showing for The Last of Us? It got 16 nominations, which in any other world would be considered a strong showing. But I think it's safe to say that where it showed up and where it didn't is perhaps reflective of a slightly muted reception to its second season. Yeah, I do agree. It felt like it did well on paper, but it's just because we're very aware of how this season didn't exactly perform. I mean, if someone like Bella Ramsey or Pedro Pascal had not been nominated, that would have been a huge snub and a huge shock. But I think it didn't sort of have the big performance we maybe would have expected as well as it did with the first season.

12:07So, you know, some of the, at least one of those nominations is more of a thank you and goodbye. But I know we're not spoiling anything about that show forever. But I think, you know, there were other actors that could have been nominated if the show had sort of had the breakout it did in the first season. Yeah, like Isabella Merced, had she been on the first season, she would have been nominated. Yeah, she's very good on it. But the show just didn't quite have as much love this time around. To me, the real tell in that tally for the show is it didn't get into writing or directing. And for both of those branches, which are kind of the tastemaking branches of the Academy in many ways, To Ignore the Show says that they had quite clearly moved on from it.

12:51You know, they gave the pit two directing nominations. Slow Horses even made it back into directing despite losing a lot of steam. That, to me, felt like a bit of a rejection. Yeah, well, there was no Barry Bartlett, Nick Offerman episode, you know. Yep, exactly. I was kind of shocked to see The Diplomat get into drama series. And I say that having predicted it only because it only got one other nomination for Keri Russell. Allison Janney didn't even make it into supporting actress. Again, that's mostly due to the White Lotus title wave. But when you think about, like, just how much bigger the Squid Game is as a show, Squid Game got just as much of a campaign, it's kind of amazing that it made it through in that mix.

13:38See, I would have been kind of, I mean, I love Allison Janney and I would have understood, but she is not in that season. It's like... You are totally right. And I think that was actually a bit of a quality control moment for these voters because she's in two episodes, but she got what's essentially a lead acting nomination at the SAG Awards because they don't differentiate lead and supporting for TV, and I assume that gave Netflix a lot of confidence that she would be able to make it through here, also given that she's, you know, such an Emmy darling. But the fact is that you have so many rich supporting performances jockeying for slots in that category, it did feel a little silly that she would get one of them, good as she is on the show.

14:17Yeah, voters did the right thing there, at least for me. They're just priming the pump for season three, you know, where she will be a main character, and that'll be that. So for all of those White Lotus acting nominations, I was bummed to see Patrick Schwarzenegger not among them. I thought he gave one of the best performances on the show. They have nominated the kind of hunky dude breakout in the past for the White Lotus, like a Jake Lacey or a Theo James. But clearly, he did not have what it takes to overtake Sam Rockwell. I know when we were writing our Snubs and Surprises piece, which is up on the site now, I wrote about Patrick and I just like couldn't get that little moment where he, you know, his character is looking at Amy Liu's character run up to Walton Goggins and he has that look of longing.

15:06And I'm like, that must be exactly what Patrick's face looked like this morning when the nominations were made. And I felt sad for him because it's such an incredible performance. I think we're just talking about a very crowded field here. and as we've mentioned, they really dominated in these supporting actor characters. Like, what are you going to do? Not pick Walton Goggins? You know, not pick Sam Rockwell? Like, Jason Isaacs? Like, unfortunately, these more established actors, I think, probably just got ahead of him on that front. But I think he's going to be okay. But yeah, he, I think, was very deserving.

15:43So that was the one snub for that group that I thought was a little sad. a tech savvy listener should you know splice in the Emmy statuette running up the beach to Walton Goggins somebody do it while Patrick watches yeah I think also it's a matter on White Lotus sometimes of arcs I think that Schwarzenegger's character's arc was a bit more subtle you know whereas Jason Isaacs had such big things to play Walton Goggins you know has obviously a huge arc it felt like while there was a lot of power in those quieter moments with Schwarzenegger at the end of the season. It maybe just didn't stick in people's heads in quite the same way.

16:20The last show I wanted to mention on the drama side that did not make it through was The Handmaid's Tale. Like Squid Game, it broke out as such a favorite with voters. It won Best Drama, Actress for Elizabeth Moss. It did not get any nominations for its final season, which was very popular. Nielsen had it in the top 10 originals of the year so far. Except for Cherry Jones, who did come back after a long break. She plays Elizabeth Moth's mother. She's very good on the show. In the way that Forrest Whitaker stands out as the only Andor nominee, I do think it stands out as the only Handmaid's Tale nominee.

16:58But it's got to be a disappointing result for that show. They did do a huge campaign for the final season. And again, it just kind of feels like a rejection. Yeah, I mean, nothing about that show is relevant anymore, so. Yeah. Clearly, the world is better now and it just feels like a faraway dystopia that we can forget about and not think about. And yeah, now it's over. We're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll talk more Emmy categories and more snubs and surprises. Stay with us.

17:39Welcome back to Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair. We are talking the Emmy nominations, which were just announced here in Los Angeles. A couple of the categories were actually announced before any of us were awake, except maybe Richard, because Richard's in New York. For some reason, they announced the reality competition category and the variety talk series category on CBS This Morning, separate from the overall announcement. And then Brenda Song had to sort of gesture to a screen as the official announcement happened, just reminding people who they were. The variety talk series only had three nominees because there are not enough submissions.

18:18And so that edged out the likes of Seth Meyers. John Mulaney couldn't make it in. and over in reality competition for the first time in over a decade The Voice was not nominated it made room for Survivor to come back which made me happy so that category is now pretty stacked it's got RuPaul's Drag Race, The Traitors The Amazing Race, All Former Winners Top Chef Richard that feels like a good representation of the competition landscape right now Yeah it's hard for me to be excited about Survivor getting back in a show that I do love because I don't love why I think it got back in which is that they've really leaned on these big human interest angles rather than really nasty strategic gameplay.

19:05And there were a lot of big emotional moments on this season that was just nominated. And so, yay for them. Good momentum as they head into seasons 49 and the big 50 this season. But I don't like all the getting rewards for being sappy on that show. I know. I'm so biased because I watch Survivor and I don't watch a lot of these other shows that it's really hard for me to predict who might win. Like, will we see another Traders, you know, win, even though I feel like I don't hear people talking about that show as much as I did the first time around. But it's definitely a stacked group, but it feels, I don't know, it would feel weird if Survivor just came up and won again, but I do think it has a lot more heat behind it again.

19:51It does feel like a perfect appetizer to what I imagine will be another nomination for its 50th season, which is filled with beloved returning contestants, newly relevant returning contestants who were, say, on the traders and won the traders like Sari Fields. So it's a good time for the show to be back. And Jeff Probst, who'd also been nominated last year, is back in the host category. It does feel like if not this year, we'll start giving Traders and Drag Race a run for its money in the next little while. Let's move over to the comedy categories. In the same way that I knew Severance would do well, I just didn't know it would do that well, the studio did really, really, really well.

20:33It got 23 nominations, pretty much blowing all the other comedies out of the water, including The Bear and Hacks, which are the previous two winners. Let me just read you the nominees in Outstanding Guest Actor in a Comedy Series for reference on how these voters felt about the studio. John Bernthal for the bear, and then Brian Cranston for the studio, Dave Franco for the studio, Ron Howard for the studio, Anthony Mackie for the studio, and Martin Scorsese for the studio, four of whom are just playing themselves. That's a lot. That is a lot. I mean, it's just very, very funny to be, half Ron Howard and Martin Scorsese nominated for acting Emmys in the year 2025.

21:19But also between this and guest actress, no SNL hosts for the first time in a long time as far as I can remember. That's a good point. Yeah, I think it's like we got an email that noted it's Ron Howard's first acting nomination, which is pretty wild to hear. But it's just like they had to find themselves in order to get the nominations. It took them decades, but they got there. Congratulations. Am I allowed to shake my fist in fury that Sarah Pauly, who by far gave the best performance of any director who played themselves on that show, was not nominated while, much as I love Martin Scorsese and Ron Howard were, it just feels a little unfair to me.

22:02I know. At least Zoe Kravitz had to do multiple episodes, so she earned it. But yeah, the Scorsese thing is so short. It's like, he got it. He got it. Congratulations. And you guys, I've always said that someday Dave Franco and Martin Scorsese will be nominated in the same acting category. And I'm glad that that finally bore out. The question is, how close were we to Matt Bellany getting nominated? Because he was on the ballot. And he campaigned a little bit. I know. He sure did. They could have owned that whole category. Just one more slot. Yeah, John Bernthal looking at that and being like, huh, okay.

22:39but maybe they all cancel each other out and John Bernthal wins I kind of feel like that is going to happen I mean he is nominated for I think his best performance on the show to date which is the episode that Liza Colonsai kind of won her Emmy for a year early which is her spotlight episode but he has this beautiful two-hander with her in the back half of that episode and feels as worthy to me as anybody else in that category and he does have a lane to himself Mm-hmm. I was surprised that Hacks seemed to lose momentum. It had won in this thrilling upset last year. It seemed like it was primed to just dominate again.

23:19But Paul W. Downs actually fell out of Best Supporting Actor. Megan Stalter did not get nominated for Supporting Actress, as some read me did think she would this year. And the guest actresses, like some of them got in. I was, again, thrilled to see Julian Nicholson in there. I was thrilled to see Robbie Hoffman get in there. But it did feel like maybe this was not as well-received a season as the one prior, at least among these voters. Yeah, that sort of bore out, I think, from general audience reaction too, right? Yeah, I think it ended on a bit of a whimper. And I think that was maybe the taste that was left in too many people's mouths, even as it had a broadly well-received season.

23:59Yeah, because the end of the previous season was so good. Yeah, and it does feel like, I don't know, a lot of it might just be that the competition is so stiff and you do have something like the studio in comedy that is giving audiences a lot of that sort of insider industry stuff that they were getting from Hacks. And it just feels a little more crowded, I think, in general in those races. The thing that made me the happiest in all of these nominations was that Somebody Somewhere got two Emmy nominations. I did not expect them to not be for Bridget Everett in Best Actress but Jeff Hiller who is so so wonderful on that show somehow got into Best Supporting Actor I don't know how that happened and Bridget Everett did get a nomination for the show as a co-writer on the series finale which was nominated I honestly am not fully it doesn't quite make sense to me how this came together but I'm just so glad that it did nonetheless.

24:59I know. How could that have worked? Like, was there, and the show is so incredible, but, you know, they don't, that I've seen do, it's not like they did a ton of campaigning all of a sudden or something. It just feels like it must have just been love from people who love that show. I don't know. It's like, what a pleasant surprise. I sort of feel like, I think I talked about this a little bit in our predictions episode. something about these HBO small gems really resonates with a certain corner of the Academy and it tends to happen very gradually and over time. Nominations for shows like Enlightened and Getting On didn't come until later in their run and this I guess fits squarely into that.

25:44In those shows cases it was for the lead actresses I think it was probably just too competitive for her to get in in addition to Bridget Everett missing out Best Actress, both Natasha Leone and Selena Gomez missed out. They were nominated for their shows most recent seasons. But it just made me so happy to see one of the absolute best shows on TV that had been so unsung throughout its run get a nice send-off. And, you know, it joins its HBO brethren. It now has the exact same number of Emmy nominations as The Wire. Jesus. There is a long tradition of great HBO shows not getting Emmy nominations.

26:22as many as great HBO shows do get Emmy nominations. Maybe the upcoming third season of The Comeback will, you know, they'll get some love too. I'm expecting 15 minimum for that show, but that's a conversation for maybe a year from now. David, you mentioned Selena Gomez, but I think, which I am sure her fans are very upset because I remember the year she was nominated, it was like such a huge deal. But also, you know, Steve Martin didn't get in. I didn't predict him to get in and I felt like a jerk for doing that and was really worried I would be wrong. But that ended up being what happened. But Only Murders in the Building overall just really shrunk in its number of nominations, which I think is notable.