How Apple TV (Ted) Lassoed a Record Number of Emmy Nominations

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1:32Hello, and welcome to Little Gold Men, a vanity affairs podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. A couple weeks ago, when we were talking about this year's Emmy nominations, we mentioned that Apple was punching way above its weight. Three of the eight nominees for Outstanding Drama Series are Apple Shows, Pluribus, Slow horses and your friends and neighbors. And so are three of the eight nominees for Outstanding Comedy Series, Margo's Got Money Troubles, Shrinking, and Widow's Bay. Since Apple TV launched in 2019, the platforms put on a bunch of hit shows and a bunch of shows that no one's ever heard of.

2:13They also do put out films, and they're actually the first streamer to ever win Best Picture with Coda. But today, we're not talking about the films. We're going to focus only on their TV. And we're going to dig in to how Apple TV started, where it's headed, and what others can learn from the platform's playbook. But before we bite into the Apple, I wanted to do a quick check-in on how the Odyssey performed over its opening weekend. John, what's the verdict? Like they say in Babe, that'll do, pig. That'll do. I mean, it performed huge. $264 million globally. It's Nolan's biggest global debut since The Dark Knight Rises.

2:57The third largest of the year. And like we said, this is just the beginning. Like, this is not a movie that's going to have like a 70 % drop off in Weekend 2. Yeah. There's so many people I know who haven't even seen it this weekend who have tickets for Weekend 3 or 4, you know, like. Right, because in L.A. they want to go to the IMAX, so they're waiting for seats, essentially. I just think there's so many people like that, that they're building a weekend around it. I mean, it was also, it was the World Cup final. You would think that would, like, dip into a movie like The Odyssey, which is pretty global.

3:34But no, it didn't. So, it's a hit. And people who maybe were on the fence about, you know, paying for it or seeing it are going to go now because it was so successful. and I feel like it's really a conversation starter. Yeah. Everyone I know is either asking me what they think about or what I think about it. So it's, I think it's just going to continue as a success story for the next few weeks at least, but I think much further into that. So we'll be talking about the Odyssey a lot is what I would say. I have a feeling we're just, it's going to be like our own Odyssey. The Odyssey of Little Gold Men covering the Odyssey.

4:09And we may never go home. And there's a couple of great pieces up on vanityfair.com. Herald Abuses, our colleague, discussed, you know, it's a box office success in a piece. I talked to Samantha Morton about my favorite scene in the movie. She plays Circe and has a great scene with pigs. So be sure to check those out once you've seen the film. All right, and speaking of odysseys, we have news in the Paramount Warner Brothers Discovery merger. Just on Monday, a federal judge moved to pause the merger after the filing by 12 state attorneys general and the Writers Guild who, you know, sued to stop the deal based on it violating antitrust laws.

4:55So the pause is for 14 days as the judge can, like, take a closer look at this issue. But this seems like a big deal. I mean, I don't know, John, what are you feeling about this? This finally has broken. I'm finally broken. I understand the antitrust. I understand how they can delay this. But it does kind of seem like really all they can do is delay. And then by delay, it causes Paramount to have to pay Warner Brothers additional fees because in the original deal, they said that this would all be wrapped up by September. but what they're arguing I thought was kind of like decided by the federal government.

5:46I mean, I thought that they sort of had allowed this merger to go through. Yeah. It doesn't seem surprising, I guess, that this pause, that seemed inevitable that that was going to happen, I guess, after the state attorneys general filed this. But how much money is it going to cost? Because, yeah, if it's not closed by September 30th, Paramount has to pay$7 million a day. And I understand that's not a lot of money compared to the billions going into this deal, but$7 million a day is just like, it's hard for me to even think about the money that is being exchanged and wasted on this deal. And then I'm going to try to keep this conversation on the tracks.

6:25But it is wild. But I think the federal government has signed off. This just feels like it's going to happen. this is just going to be maybe a more expensive way for it to happen at this point. I think the major thing is that this is showcasing people's extreme displeasure with this merger. Things merge all the time. And generally, there's like hemming and hawing. But I have not seen anything quite like this. Like the industry is not happy about this. They are not happy that Ellison is getting a hold of CNN. They're not happy about what this will mean for a lot of television production. Film is up in the air, what it means for like studios like HBO.

7:13And so I think that we're just going to see like people trying to create as many roadblocks as possible. I don't know if it'll be successful, but it's a way to air your frustration. Yeah, there's so much emotion with this. Yeah. Especially, you know, with the loss of jobs that will come from it. I think that you're right. There's a lot of anger and hurt and all of that, you know, and you think we're talking about like dry legal proceedings, but we're not. We're talking about something that's very emotional for a lot of people. So I think you're right. We're seeing this isn't an ordinary M &A situation here.

7:49Yeah. And so our last bit of news is both TIFF and Venice have started releasing their lineups. And New York Film Festival also announced their opening night film, which is James Gray's Paper Tiger. So there's going to be a lot to dig in, but we're going to wait and talk about that on our next episode. So please come back to hear more about our thoughts on all of that. But for today, let's get back into the world of television. Here to help us out is Vanity Fair special correspondent Joy Press. Hi, Joy. Welcome back. Hi, thanks. So, we have some Emmy headlines to discuss. Last week, the TV Academy announced that they were going to pare down the number of televised primetime Emmy Awards that they were going to present this year.

8:38They cut five categories from the ceremony, and they were big ones. writing for a variety series, supporting actor and actress in a limited anthology series or movie, directing for limited series or anthology, and writing for limited series anthology. What the hell's going on? What do you guys think? We get that everybody's got to make a shorter show. Like, I get that that is the driving force behind a lot of these award shows, but this is so strange. It's such a random hodgepodge of groups, And I don't understand a world where moving actors and actress awards off the broadcast will help ratings in any way.

9:22I don't know. How do you guys feel? Yeah, I mean, usually it's, you know, behind the scenes makeup and, you know, costuming or special effects. So this does seem very random. Well, the Academy tried to do this, but they did it with like the categories that were way more below the line. Yeah. Like you said, Joy. But these are major categories, especially the actor categories. And they want to make room for other stuff to put in the show, like performances, I suppose. But my question is what? Like more like retrospectives on old TV shows. Like the way the Emmys are now, the boring part is never the winners.

10:14It's when they like are like, here's two people from a TV show you kind of don't remember. Or like maybe wasn't that important. You know what I mean? Like, that seems like the least sticky part of the Emmys is the random reunions, unless they get, like, the original cast of Essence, you know, like, something really crazy. And I can't really think of one from the last couple years that I've been like, wow, what an amazing historic reunion, you know? I mean, they're cute, but I don't think they're blowing anyone's mind. Yeah, I don't know that people are watching just to see these special reunions.

10:56It does feel like an attempt to tap into the nostalgia of when TV was really central and everybody was watching the same shows. But it seems not terribly fair to the people who are nominated at this point. Yeah, I wonder if they're going to reverse this. I mean, they have time. It's July. So that's what I said in the Slack channel. Yeah. Don't you think this is like a pretty like what? I'm actually for cutting at times, but this is one where I was like, I don't understand. They should reverse it. I mean, if they have an incredibly entertaining number that, you know, wows everyone and is the absolute talking point the next day, then sure.

11:45You know, then I was wrong. But yeah, I mean, does, you know, does Mariska Hargitay get up there and, you know, sing a show tune that blows everyone away and next day everyone's talking about it? I don't know. But that's in the opening monologue then. It's going to be two hours long. Yeah. Or is that what it is? is are they just aiming to make a significantly shorter show and they're just not saying that? I don't know. I mean, because the Creative Arts Emmys are over two nights, right? They're not... Well, those are never-ending. I mean... Yeah, but that's what these ones are moving to, right?

12:21So it's like... I mean, there are guest nominees who already their wins get announced at that show, but I just think putting these supporting actor nominees, Like, it would be amazing to see David Harbour or Charles Munson, whoever's going to win supporting Actor in the Limited up there giving a speech. And I feel like you're really just shooting yourself in the foot, cutting some of these categories. Yeah, and I think that some of them, wouldn't you just sort of be like, well, why am I coming to the Emmys? Yeah. I mean, maybe they will. But if they think these actors are going to show up to the Emmys to stand up and say they received an award a week earlier at the Creative Arts.

13:00I think they are underestimating after Z goes. Yeah, I'm very curious how the actors and writers and directors in these categories are taking this in. All right, I think we should jump into our main topic here. So like we talked about a few weeks ago, Apple TV had a huge Emmy nominations day. It's best ever. But the streaming platform hasn't always been as successful as it is now. So I wanted to sort of look at Apple's trajectory in this space. And maybe we could start with talking about what we think. How would you describe Apple TV's vibe? Like, if it were a high school student, what table would it sit at?

13:44Yikes. Rich kids who like to name drop but are also obsessed with murder in outer space. You did it. That was perfect, Joy. You got it. Yeah. They're a little goody two-shoes, too. But they do have money. But they definitely have money. I mean, we're at Harvard-Westlake regardless. Like, the lunch table is Horace Mann, Harvard-Westlake. Well, Apple TV, and a quick note, the plus was dropped from the name last year, in case you weren't paying attention. The service launched back in the fall of 2019. And, Joy, at the time, you were reporting on Apple and sort of the way it was introducing this new streaming service to the public.

14:24Can you remind us about how it launched and also, you know, what the state of streaming was back then? Yeah, I mean, it seems like a million years ago. I mean, it launched in November 2019. The streaming wars, as we called it, was just like in full swing. All the studios were absolutely desperate to try to catch up to Netflix and Amazon. And Apple was one of the first. I mean, they launched two weeks before Disney Plus, but Disney's launch was loud. and like it had a very clear mission. I mean, we all knew it was coming and Apple's was a little bit cloudier and maybe still remains, you know, a little bit unclear.

15:05I mean, like Disney launched with this huge archive of TV and movies and all the other streamers that came after HBO Max and Peacock and Paramount, like they all did the same. And Apple just launched. So they came to the Television Critics Association meeting Before COVID, we would twice a year, you know, all the TV people would go and the networks would present their slate for the coming year. And usually, you know, they'd spend all day. The network heads would kind of put forth their perspective and take questions. And Apple just sort of like dropped this really weird slate of eight shows. That's all they had.

15:45There was no back catalog, nothing else. And, you know, the top execs didn't show up. And still don't. And still don't. And they still have remained under the radar. You know, they don't release data. So, you know, they announced a ton of big names. And that's been their MO is they love Star Power. You know, so from the very start, they launched, you know, with all of these big names attached. But, you know, it was then and remains now a little bit of a confusing streamer. Yeah, I think, I'm trying to remember like what, other than these names, you know, they had like Jennifer Aniston, Chris Evans, Oprah, all these huge, I remember all these huge names, but was that basically what they were banking on for people to be subscribers at the time?

16:31Was just like, look at all the talent. Yeah, I mean, it was The Morning Show, which was Jennifer Aniston's, you know, return to television. And it was based off of this popular book about the behind the scenes of the Today Show. And Steve Carell was going to play a villain and all of those things. and I also think they have a very strong sci-fi presence more so than any other streamer and that is definitely a part of their identity with shows like For All Mankind, Silo, Monarch. There's just a bunch. Maybe those shows don't like make a huge splash in Hollywood but I think that they do well with the sci-fi viewer.

17:20Which is not my lane, but I think you're right. There are a lot of fans of those types of shows. Well, and they have the, again, it comes back to money. They have the money to put behind them. I mean, if you look at something like Silo, it's like, how much money is in each scene? You know, it's very hard to make some of those shows really well. So, you know, but I think they had a little bit of each genre. You know, they certainly do plenty of mysteries and all those kinds of things. So, you know, they have figured out ways to create loyalty in certain communities, viewing communities. And Joy, what do you remember about how it did compared to like Disney Plus and all these competitors at the time when all of it felt like the entire universe was trying to scramble and make its own streaming network?

18:06Well, I mean, as I said, like, I think Disney, I mean, it was all these, you know, Star Wars shows, they had all of this IP Disney. And so they immediately just made a massive splash and everyone was talking about Disney. But I think, you know, comparing Disney to Apple was, I don't know, it's like apples to oranges. I mean, they, you know, I think Apple was not looking to build an audience solely for the streamer, right? It was sort of almost a branding exercise. But I would say as a branding exercise, it didn't really work because Disney made so much noise and got so much affection. And a lot of the Apple content, I mean, other than maybe Dickinson, which was one of their first shows that was really fun and different than anything else that was on TV, I feel like a lot of their other shows got panned, got ignored.

18:58It really wasn't until Ted Lasso that people even kind of knew that Apple existed for the most part. Yeah, I think that Apple TV being a branding exercise is evident by what they charged for an Apple TV subscription. It started at$4.99 a month. And it was also like, if you had an Apple Music account, you could get, I think, the first year for free. And it just, in discussions about Apple, even all the way up to now, like, the idea of churning a profit is, like, not even brought up. Now, in the beginning, I mean, at the height of the streaming wars, nothing was about churning a profit. It was all about subscriber growth, subscriber growth.

19:51But in time, then people were like, but are you going to make any money off of this? And I feel Apple is going to be one of the last to still not answer that question and maybe never will. But they definitely sort of have snuck in under the radar in terms of, like, you probably have an Apple TV account and maybe you don't even know it. Because of all the different ways in which the first couple of years you could sign up. I think there's a point where my husband and I both had an Apple TV account in our same household. Well, and whenever you got a new phone or a new Apple device, you would get free a year, six months, whatever, of Apple TV.

20:33So there was just a built-in way of getting you into their ecosystem. Yeah. I mean, it kind of makes sense that they started this in the first place because the television was like the only screen we looked at that didn't have Apple content coming in on it. So it makes sense why they did it. I think we should take a quick break. And when we get back, we'll take a look at the bulk of Apple TV's content, its original programming. Stick around.

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23:29Welcome back to Little Gold Men. When Apple TV launched in 2019, it offered eight original series. We talked a little bit about The Morning Show and Dickinson. can any of you name another one? Yes. The M. Night Shyamalan one was called Servant. Was that one of their original ones? It was, yeah. Oh, man. I had that mixed up in my... Don't forget the Jason Momoa show, See, the only notable thing being that Jason Momoa was in it. I remember the posters for that or the advertisements at the time. I watched the first couple seasons of The Morning Show, but I will admit I have fallen off of it now. But I think that was, I guess, their biggest success, right?

24:14At that time. Not critically. No. I mean, audience-wise, I think The Morning Show is relatively successful and has shown up on the Nielsen ratings charts on and off, which is really the only way we can chart Apple TV's success because they don't really share data. Yeah, and I am a loyal morning show watcher. I will be watching this show to the end the way I did My Rose Place. It was crazy from the jump, right, Joy? Both on screen and behind the scenes. Yes, it was crazy. But in some ways in the last couple of years, I would say it's found its groove in its crazy. It's like fully embraced being a nighttime soap opera that is pretty nutty, that a lot of stuff happens.

25:08Well, I think it always had that. I think from the beginning, it was a nighttime soap, but I think people were confused about what it was. I think critics didn't, you know, overall didn't love it, thought it was going to be this prestige show with these great actors, and actually it was like this juicy, you know, like knock-em-down, you know, old-style nighttime soap. I think maybe, though, in the first season, Joy, they thought it was going to be prestige. I think they were writing it as prestige. No, exactly. That's what they thought it was, and the critics disagreed. I mean, of their original shows, I think only Dickinson and Servant got good reviews.

25:47The rest of them pretty much critically disappeared without a trace. Right. Interesting. I think, for me, what, looking back on it, seems like such a turning point was when Ted Lasso premiered. It was August 2020. We were all deep in COVID and morale was low, to put it lightly. And I think this show came along at a very specific time and really was what a lot of audiences needed. And I do think that, to me, seems like it was a major turning point for this network. Well, what do you think are the lessons that they learned from Ted Lasso? Because I agree. I think Apple TV is pre-Ted, it's like before Christ after, like pre-Ted Lasso after.

26:32I think that Ted Lasso taught them some things about like television and how people consume it that we're now seeing in the last two years them really embrace in a way that has made them what I think is one of the most successful streamers content-wise. But what do you think, I have an answer, but what do you think they learned? Well, I think getting in the business of Bill Lawrence was a huge good move for them. You know, he now has brought them shrinking, which has been another huge hit for them. So I think it's probably the value of like showrunners and writers. And I think having these sort of, it's not auteur driven, I guess showrunner driven or creative driven series.

27:22You know, when we look at what they did after that, I think is probably the biggest change they've done rather than star driven. Well, I mean, I'd also say, you know, that people often complain in television about heavy handed executives. It's clearly not easy to make good TV, even if you have a ton of money and big stars, right? So you need to have a strong sense of like, what your mission is, what your aesthetic is, and like, what your trust level of trust is in, in your creators, like you need to have those relationships. and, you know, I think it took them a while to build that. I also will point out that, I mean, Ted Lasso came from Warner Brothers Studios.