Jason Bateman on His Most Un-Bateman Roles Yet

0:01Rebecca:I'm not giving up. I am selling the building. The final season of FX is the bear. The restaurant is flooded. Everything's either going to be okay. Or not. We are outgunned and we are outmanned. We have each other. FX is the bear. The final season. All episodes now streaming on Disney+.

0:34Rebecca:Hello, and welcome to Little Golden Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. I'm Rebecca Ford. My guest today is actor, producer, and director Jason Bateman, who's having one of the biggest years of his career. He's nominated for four Emmy Awards across two limited series, Black Rabbit, in which he stars alongside Jude Law. He also directed the opening episodes, and DTF St. Louis, a crime drama about a messy middle-aged love triangle. After decades of playing the buttoned-up voice of reason, like he first did in Arrested Development and later in Ozark, Jason is now playing men who are messy and chaotic and emotionally raw, characters who are very different from the ones audiences have come to expect from him.

1:18Rebecca:Jason and I caught up last week after he'd just gotten back from a vacation with his very good friends, Jennifer Aniston and Courtney Cox. We talked about what it's like balancing acting, directing, and producing all at the same time, and what he's learned from spending the last few years on the other side of the mic as the co-host of a very popular podcast. Let's dive in.

1:42Rebecca:I'm so excited to welcome Jason Bateman today. Hi, thank you for joining me. Hi, happy to be here. Thanks for having me. I was Googling you and I see you just got back from vacation. Yes. You have a good trip? It was a good trip, but it was right in the middle. Well, not in the middle, but I've still got another week to go on this film that I'm directing. So I'm leaving day after tomorrow to go to Iceland to finish up the last week on this thing. So I wasn't really able to fully relax knowing that there's more to come. Yeah. And we're going to talk about that project because I am excited to see you direct a feature again.

2:17Rebecca:Well, thank you. But is it weird that I know you're on vacation? Like, do you ever get used to that part that when you go on vacation with your friends that are very familiar to us, it's out there in the world? Yeah. I mean, I guess it's part of the job. You kind of sound silly complaining about it. And fortunately for me, I don't have a lot of secrets or things I want to hide, nor am I particularly vain. So, you know, it's good if I just sort of keep my head down and I don't look for any of the cameras because then once you know they're there, then you kind of get self-conscious. But if I just sort of keep my head down and pretend there's no such thing as paparazzi, you can live a pretty normal life.

2:57Rebecca:Well, you're up for a bunch of Emmys this year for two different shows, acting, directing, producing. Congrats. Thanks. I am such a fan of both the shows, so I'm glad to see you get that love. Was there one nomination for either that felt especially big to you? Not really. I mean, it was just such a really exciting morning, you know, having those four nominations come in was pretty crazy. You know, I knew there was a chance of an exciting morning way back when, when these two jobs presented themselves to me. and then sort of based on when they both got going and when they both got released, knowing that, oh, wait, those could fall in the same Emmy year qualifying-wise.

3:46And so I thought, oh, that could potentially be super fun. And then there it was. It's always very, very fortunate when you get a part of the conversation. There's so many really good things that, whether it's television or film, that just don't, for some reason, get talked about or mentioned or included in the conversation or consideration. And the fact that I was in two this year that are being talked about is the cherry on top of the process and the product. It's a whole other thing to get well-received and to have the public at large take it in. That's just a part of it we just have no control over.

4:32Rebecca:Did the two of these shows film close together for you? Or did you have some time? I want to say there was maybe six months in between. Okay. God, I could be totally wrong with that. But I do remember that on the heels of Black Rabbit, since it was such a long shoot, and I was there for a few months before we even started shooting, just prepping those episodes that I directed up front, I was gone for a lot. And it was my eldest daughter's final year in school. And so I had promised her that when I was done with Black Rabbit that I would spend her remaining, I don't know, six months while still living at home, I would spend those at home and with her.

5:14And then these damn Steve Conrad scripts showed up. And, you know, Steve Conrad is someone who I've been a massive creepy fan of for about 20 years. And we've been trying to do something together. You know, he and I first met each other when he was directing a film called The Promotion. And I did a small part on that. And at the end, when he was saying goodbye to me, he sort of said, you know, perfunctorily, you know, if I can ever do anything for you, just let me know. you know, kind of thing, because I just came in and did this one little scene at the end. And then a friend of mine gave me this script that a school teacher in Florida had written.

5:57She had never written anything before in her life. And it was this script about this guy who stole this other guy's identity. And so I thought, well, this is a great concept. And I talked to Scott Stuber, who's the producer of it. I said, boy, if we could get this really kind of simplistic concept done with a real sophisticated writer, I think we'd really have something. What do you think? He said, well, who do you have in mind? Well, somebody like Steve Conrad, he's like, oh my God, that would be incredible. I don't know. Could you ever get him? I said, well, as a matter of fact, he just finished this thing.

6:30And so Steve and I, you know, he did a draft of that script that was just incredible. And anyway, so we were wanting to do something together for a long, long time. And so these scripts show up and I make my daughter read them, I say, baby, I know that I said I was going to be home, but what do you think about these things? Because she's studying film herself. And so she understands what a great script looks like. And she was like, oh my God, that sounds incredible. And you totally should. And the plan was for her to be on set with me and kind of study because she's learning to be a director. And so I thought maybe some on-set experience would be really cool for her.

7:09And she agreed. turned out she got too busy with her second half her senior year she couldn't go but she was very much on board with me doing this and I'm glad it turned out so well and I wasn't just wasting my time you know Jason Bateman is up for Emmy Awards for two very different performances

7:27Rebecca:this year after the break we'll get into DTF St. Louis why the script was impossible to pass up and how the role he played was unlike anything he'd done before stick around

7:48Rebecca:I'm not giving up. I am selling the building. The final season of FX's The Bear. The restaurant is flooded. Everything's either going to be okay. No, stop. Or not. We are outgunned and we are outmanned. We have each other. FX's The Bear, the final season. All episodes now streaming on Disney+.

8:21Rebecca:Welcome back to Little Gold Men. Well, let's talk a little bit about DTF St. Louis because I think it's such a unique show. I felt like I was surprised at every turn by the characters and the story. And the dialogue is sort of intentionally stilted, maybe I would describe it. and these characters are so odd. Was that on the page or was that something you guys found more, you know, while you were making it? It was very much on the page and so much so that David and I had some private conversations about, you know, how do we approach Steve about, you know, how much he's going to want us to play every ellipses and every um versus uh and all of that because I'm kind of loose with my dialogue and David as well.

9:09And we were wondering how much of a stickler Steve was going to be because he is so deliberate with the way that he writes dialogue in the best way. And Steve, almost before we could even get the sentence out of our mouths, he was like, don't worry about any of that stuff. Like, I want you guys to just feel natural. So the fact that he kind of gave us so much latitude actually made David and I learn it verbatim. It was super duper challenging though. It was, David, I think, would say the same, that it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to learn. I mean, not only are the speeches very long and the scenes are very long, but the way the dialogue is constructed.

9:49He just, he writes like people talk, where you sort of finish a sentence halfway through and then move on to another thought and then come back to that uncompleted sentence. And it's a very difficult thing to learn and to make it look like you're coming up with it on the spot. Good first day. That was your first day signing? No, no, it's my first day at the station, though.

10:11Rebecca:I've been signing for like a year plus. Oh, so you're not like hard of hearing? No, no, no. How did you get into, uh... Uh, I have Peroni's disease.

10:29That's, um... I don't know if... Um, it's, I have a curve in my penis greater than 30 degrees, So that's Peronies. So...

10:42You know what? It was just, you know, it was a great field report, man. Way to be. Way to be. Hey, way to be, you too.

10:51Rebecca:The show, you know, it's a lot about midlife and the way you can sort of feel stuck and uninspired. And did you have to pull anything from life for this, or was it just all there on the page? Well, I think we all sort of battle with degrees of honesty. I mean, I happen to be a professional liar, being an actor. That's kind of our job is to pretend we're somebody else. But I think just anybody in their just normal everyday life, you've got a conversation that's going on internally versus the one you're having externally. and the degree to which you can have those two get along kind of dictates your level of happiness each day, you know.

11:34And I think that you and I are in a business that is not famous for rewarding deep honesty and thorough transparency. You know, there's sort of a fine art of lying in this business, both in front of the camera and behind the camera. Yeah. And so it was really nice to play a character that is not in an overly savvy world. You know, he's a very decent and meek middle America weatherman on a local news station. And he has not had a super dynamic or challenging life thus far. And that's why he's kind of feeling the urge to mix things up a little bit. Unfortunately, he doesn't really have the coping skills to manage some of those decisions.

12:19And that's why it's, you know, seven episodes long and not one episode long. He takes some time to figure stuff out. So it was really nice to be in that world of sort of this adult virgin, basically. Yeah, yeah.

12:35Rebecca:Well, I guess it's sort of the other end of the spectrum, maybe. In Black Rabbit, you're playing the brother who's the chaos agent, the screw-up. And I read an interview where you said you intentionally wanted to play that kind of character that maybe you're not so known for. Did you learn something from getting to dive into playing him? I mean, I learned that it's a lot of fun to play a character like that because I just have not done a bunch where, you know, I'm usually playing the character that Jude played. And that was a conversation that Jude and I had early on. It may have even been our first conversation about, you know, which character do you want to play?

13:21And I had a real good take on the character I did play, this guy Vince, based on a bunch of people that I've known in my life. And I'm sure you've known and some of your listeners have known people that are just kind of heartbreakingly incapable of managing their life well. and they're not bad people. They're well-intentioned, but they're dangerous to hang out with emotionally and physically. You know, he's a tough character to love in the beginning. And then hopefully as the episodes play out, you start to learn that this guy's just kind of doing the best he can with what he's got and ultimately finds a level of accountability and we get the ending that we get.

14:08Rebecca:Do you feel like, you know, I mean, I'm pairing these projects because you're nominated for Emmys for both of them, but do you feel like there is something in common about these roles that you're being drawn to or that you're exploring right now? Yeah, I mean, both of these characters are men that are really raw, and there's not a lot of artifice to either one of them. I'm usually playing a guy that really knows how to bullshit. Both of these characters are almost incapable and maybe even unknowing about what that is, how to sort of, you know, feign swagger, feign confidence. And I really enjoyed playing that with both these guys and, you know, both drastically different in their inability to fake it.

15:02You know, one's just a dirtbag and the other one's just incredibly decent. So it was really fortunate that they came in the same year and I was able to do both of those things. Just, you know, pardon the term, you know, artistically, it was really, really fun.

15:20Rebecca:You're nominated for directing on Black Rabbit. How do you decide when you want to take on that additional role? You know, I know you can only do the first episodes so you can have time to prep. But when do you feel like it's a challenge you want to take on? Well, all the time. I would love to direct constantly. I just find such an incredible joy in the workload of it. And maybe that's just me being a masochist. I know, the very intense workload of it. Yeah, you know, or maybe it's just me trying to channel my addiction issues into something that's productive and healthy. I just love it so much.

16:05It's just a real honor and privilege to be able to create something for the audience to climb into. And it's a real responsibility that I love taking on with a group of actors and a crew that are all rowing in the same direction. So I would direct everything that I act in if it were appropriate just because I love the job. as much as I love the acting job. So again, with the addiction issues, doing both at the same time is a 20 instead of a 10. But working for someone like Steve or any other incredibly gifted director is something that really excites me a lot too. Knowing what a director goes through, to just be an actor, being a soldier for a director and being the person that they're hoping makes it all come together in between action and cut when the director can't get in there and can't do anything.

17:09It's just you're making a bunch of other departments work, come together, coalesce, and make it all happen. So I love being a soldier for another director. That's a lot of fun too.

17:23Rebecca:Do you envision it all as being directing and acting and producing or do you feel like one of these is going to become more of the priority, like with the distribution of your efforts, I guess? I would think that it'll be where the better opportunities come. If I'm getting crappy opportunities as an actor, I'll do the directing opportunities if they're better and vice versa. You know, fortunately, Netflix is a great home for this company that I have where we get to do a lot of our own cooking. So the opportunity to direct and act in the same project and produce the same project is there. And I've got an incredible partner in Michael Costigan that we've got a bunch of stuff in the pipeline that can satiate my hunger to work really, really hard.

18:19I think one day I'll probably gas and say, that's enough. I just want to do nothing but, I don't know, fill in the blank. But right now, I've just got such a lot of energy to work as hard as I possibly can and take on the things that are right at the edge of what I think I can handle. I've got that kind of ambition and drive at this point in my career.

18:44Rebecca:We're going to take another break. When we get back, Jason and I get into his work behind the camera and what he's learned from hosting his own podcast. Don't go away.

19:04Rebecca:I'm not giving up. I am selling the building. The final season of FX's The Bear. The restaurant is flooded. Everything's either going to be okay. No, stop! Or not. We are outgunned and we are outmanned. We have each other. FX's The Bear, the final season. All episodes now streaming on Disney+.

19:38Rebecca:Welcome back to Little Gold Men. So with your next directorial effort, The Cackling of the Dodos, that's still the title, I assume. Okay. You said you've got a little bit more to go on there? Yeah, a week in Iceland to shoot the beginning and the end of it. It starts and finishes with a glacier. So I won't say more than that, but we've been there already once for a scout, and now we go back and we shoot. Ironically, it's supposed to be Alaska, but there's a tax rebate in Iceland. Right. Well, I don't know how this is possible that you also have an extremely popular podcast on top of all of this.

20:14Rebecca:I'm such a fan of SmartList and the way the three of you have developed this wonderful rapport and the way you are with guests. But how has that surprised you, taking on an experience? I mean, you know, where do I start? The three of us simply wanted to stay in contact during COVID and this notion of a podcast came about. And then we discovered people were listening. Like, it was just completely wild to me. It's still wild to me that as many people listen to us as they do. And I'm not being overly humble here. I just, I truly think that were it not for the really kind guests that come on our show, I'm sure the public would have been sick of our nonsense.

21:02So we're very fortunate that we get the kind of guests saying yes to us that we do.

21:08Rebecca:I will say the hard part of being on this side of the microphone, I guess, Is that like it can be easy to kind of put your foot in your mouth when you're doing interviews if you're totally on accident. But has the way you approach preparing for those things changed or is it just the way it is? Well, to be honest, the concept of only one of us knowing who the guest is is a workaround for the work. So only one person has to prepare and the other two can be the idiots that we are. So that part makes it a lot easier. And the fact that, you know, there's three of us. So, you know, like right now, you probably already have your next question in your head.

21:49And like you probably looked at it right after you finished asking the last one. So it's in your head, but it also frees you up to listen to my answer.

21:57Rebecca:Don't give away the magic, Jason. You know, you've got to stay ahead so that it doesn't fall apart and there's no awkward silence. The fact that there's three of us, again, it's so much easier. And you can just sit there and kind of freestyle a bit. So it's embarrassingly simple. It is a one-hour Zoom each week. And it's with two of my best friends. So I'm really fortunate that this has found its way to me. In all of these years, it is, I wouldn't say the easiest work, but maybe the most, Well, yeah, the easiest work in my career, yet the most lucrative. So it's just been such a gift, and I hope it never ends.