Mailbag! Plus, Katie Dippold on the Making of “Widow’s Bay”

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1:32Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. Today, we're sharing a very fun interview with the creator of Widow's Bay, Katie Dippold. I got to talk to Katie about my favorite jokes on the show, how they balanced the horror and comedy, and some of the other big projects that she's written on over the years. We're also going to answer some of the great mailbag questions that you, our listeners, have sent in about film festivals, the Best Actress race, and much more. Okay, let's open up the mailbag. We got a lot of great questions, so thank you, everyone, for emailing us.

2:15Our first question comes from Kevin. It's very early in the year still, but with Best Actress looking semi-thin, and with the Michelle Williams movie pushing back to 2027, do you agree that, in retrospect, the Testament of Ann Lee should have waited a year to release instead of rushing it out to make 2025? seems like an actress nomination would have been much more likely at minimum. Can you think of other years or films where performance could have been more competitive for a nomination or win if they just delayed a year? Great question. I love this question. Yes, I agree that the testament of Anne Lee should have waited a year to release.

2:57I do think the best actress race is looking real thin right now. I feel like Julianne Moore for the debut, a movie I have not seen is just way out in front. I know, but we haven't seen it. It doesn't matter. Look at that trailer. It's Julianne Moore. Come on. She's playing an actress. Like, just give it to her. And then it's like pretty light, as mentioned. It's very early in the race. But I think that Amanda's performance was so incredible and the fact that it just got so overlooked. I think that is a great point if we could go back in time. I agree that it looks thin. I never believe in waiting a year for a release.

3:40Really? No. I think that— Even in this case, when it got bought so late? I think it would have lost some of its momentum of The Brutalist, which has the same filmmakers, Mona Fastfeld and Brady Corbet. And it also premiered in Venice to be sold. and so to wait a year after a Venice premiere I think would have been tricky. Not impossible, but tricky. And you also never know actors' shooting commitments, you know, they sort of had Amanda available to do press for this movie, whereas this year, you know, I don't know, she could be filming something. So I'm never a fan of waiting a year. But, you know, I hear both sides.

4:27I just think it maybe would have run up against the same problems. I mean, can you think of other films or performances? It's hard because of exactly what you're saying. There are so many different reasons a performance doesn't catch fire or does that it's really hard to go back and look at this. But I was looking at the Best Actor race in 2006 was a very light year. Forrest Whitaker won for The Last King of Scotland. But it was like Ryan Gosling for Half Nelson, Will Smith for The Pursuit of Happiness. It just wasn't a great year. I love Half Nelson. Like, go on. But in the Oscar race, I don't think that was ever considered, like, had a chance to beat Forrest Whitaker.

5:10But the year before had Heath Ledger with Brokeback Mountain and Joaquin Phoenix for Walk the Line. Like, it was a super strong year. That was the year Philip Seymour Hoffman won for Capote. So, like, in theory, I don't even know when all those movies came out. But that's an example of a year, a very strong year, followed by a very weak year. But I couldn't think of a ton of other examples that stick out as strongly as sort of the Ann Lee flub does to me. Yeah. It's almost like having a crystal ball, you know, and you can't, you don't have one. We can't predict the future, but we can try. It is sort of part of our job sometimes.

5:52All right. Next up, we have a question from Kim. My question, as someone not in the industry, but a frequent TIFF attendee, has two parts. One, what film do you think will win the Audience Award this year at TIFF? And two, do you think the possibility of the Best Picture Oscar winner coming from TIFF is a thing of the past? What do you think, John? You're doing TIFF this year. Is there a film or two that feels like could be the audience winner without having seen? It's such a long lineup. It's such a big lineup. Can I answer the second part first? Sure. Yes. I absolutely think that the TIFF Audience Award will lead to an Oscar winner eventually.

6:35I think things are cyclical. Like, you know, Can had a really good, like, one-two punch with Parasite and Enora. But there was, you know, however many years in between. And I think that the TIFF audience is very, very keyed in to what the Oscar voter is like. What I think could win the audience award, I mean, listen, Hamnet won last year. So I'm thinking, like, what makes you cry at the end? Club Kid has that emotional punch at the end. Right. The ending matters because you vote. You can vote immediately as you walk out of the theater. So you're like full of that surge of, you know, I love the movies.

7:18And then you can just write your choice right then. So as you were leaving Hamnet last year covered in your own snot from crying, you clicked on that and was like that one. Exactly. We don't know about the debut, but it feels like a movie that is primed for TIFF audiences. Interestingly enough, I actually think that their opening night film, Being Human, is a little bit stronger than normal. This is the Sean Keeter follow-up to Coda, which won the Oscar. What are some of your picks? Well, I think the thing we've noticed or I've noticed with TIFF is that your placement in the schedule really matters.

8:03And I haven't done a deep dive, but they put films that premiered at Venice later in the schedule. And because this award is voted on by the people, the viewers, the audiences, it matters how many times your movie screens and at what point during the festival, because if it's seen more, it can be voted on more. And there is a lot about this that is about buzz on the ground. So I'm basically saying it's very difficult to predict this. I'm really excited about Misty Green, which is Chris Rock's directorial movie. I feel like people like his movies. And so that might be, but again, we haven't seen so many of these.

8:41So it's really hard to pick. I think you're right. It either has to be something where the ending is just like incredible or it's something that is very emotional or very crowd-pleasing. I assume La Bola Negra is going, right? That one has an ending that I think really, really works and I wonder if that might be a player. Also Wild Horse 9, not an ending that is necessarily pulling at your heartstrings, but that's going to play really well. in that room. Right. That's a good point. The next one is from Adam. First time attending Telluride Film Festival. Any tips and tricks you can provide will be greatly appreciated.

9:25Me too, Rebecca. Me too. Okay. I thought of a bunch of tips. Some of these apply to all festivals and some don't. But I think because Telluride is a lot smaller, it is very key to talk to strangers in line because they will have seen things you haven't seen or they'll know like, oh, the line for this one might not be as long because it's the second screening. Like it's just, it helps you strategize where to go and what to see and what movies are working on the ground. And people are so friendly there. So I always talk to people when I'm in line and try to get that kind of information. The second thing I would say is ride the gondola, even if you don't have a movie to go see up the hill, because it is so beautiful and it's also fun and spooky at night.

10:14So do it at least once, if not more than once. And, you know, John and I are there to see a very select list of movies that we need to cover. But if I was there as someone just having fun at the festival, I would seek out some of the lesser known films. You know, they curate this festival really well. So anything there is going to be good. They have some great docs. They'll have some, I think, really interesting surprises with this lineup that we don't know about yet. So don't feel pressure to just see the big ones that you will probably be able to see in theaters later. The feeling of discovery is so wonderful if you find something that you maybe hadn't planned to see.

10:57And then my mom tips are bring snacks because you're going to be standing in lines and wear layers because it can be cold at night. And then I guess my last thing is find me. I'm moderating something Friday night and I'm moderating something Sunday afternoon. So, you know, I'd love to see listeners if they're out there, come say hi. And you're not going to mention anything about the altitude that I've heard so much about? Oh, I'm not that affected by the altitude there. I mean, you don't sleep great, but people have these cans of oxygen that they carry around with them. If you feel like that's something you're going to be sensitive to, just drink a lot of water and maybe go easy on the alcohol.

11:35And then there is a local bear. I have never seen him myself. He's not scary. I mean, there's only one that walks around town in the nights. But I use my flashlight on my phone when I'm walking in the dark because I don't want to see the bear. But there is one, so don't be surprised if you do see him. Okay. All right. I'll do the next one. Here's another festival question from Mona. Can you please offer additional insights about the regional festivals, including which ones are the most prominent, well-known, and why, especially in the fall, do regional festivals ever feature world or North American premieres?

12:11What do regional festivals offer that the more well-known festivals do not? They don't really have world or North American premieres of the major films, but who cares? because if it's a premiere to you, what does it matter if it screens someplace else? Yeah. There's a lot of festivals throughout awards season that attract quite a bit of talent to attend because they give out performance awards or they have a contingency of voters. One of them is SCAD, which is the Savannah Film Festival. There's Middleburg in Virginia. There's Mill Valley. in the Bay Area. There's Denver Film Festival. What else?

13:05I mean, there's a bunch. You named the big ones that I feel like. Oh, there's Newport Beach, too. Oh, yes. And then, like, I mean, San Francisco has one. Like, there's lots of little ones. So, I mean, definitely wherever you are, you know, check, because there's probably one sort of near you. And, you know, the thing with these is the studios bring their films to these because they have access to voters who aren't in LA and New York, obviously, who can make an easy trip from, say, like DC to Middleburg or wherever. And these festivals are great. I've been to a couple of them. I've been to Denver.

13:44I've been to SCAD. SCAD is one of my favorites because the audience is a ton of students who go to the college, and their energy is, like, so fun. But they do bring in voters, you know, to come watch the films there as well. I really like moderating at these things. And I feel like the talent, they just drop in for a day or two and they seem to have a good time doing it. So what they offer is they're accessible. When we're talking about Telluride and Venice, of course, but even Toronto, it costs a lot to get there and it's hard to see the movies. At Mill Valley, there are not lines. You just walk into whatever movies you want to see.

14:23So they're easier to navigate and you're still getting to see the movies, quite early and be around other people who are excited about movies. So I highly recommend them, especially if it's not a far journey for you to go. Yeah, I love regional festivals. And I think so does talent and so do the studios. They love them. They like to participate in them. There's something special about not being in Hollywood or New York all the time. and you can see a lot of movies at a regional festival and make that, you know, pass really worth your while. Yeah. Okay, and finally, we're going to do some rapid-fire questions from Cammie.

15:05She sent us a lot and they were fun. What's a book you are shocked hasn't been adapted yet and would love to see made either for the art or because it would make so much money? My answer is kind of a cheat here, But I closely follow the saga with a second Crazy Rich Asians movie being made based on the second book because that first movie was such a success. But here we are without a follow-up a decade later. And I think it would have made so much money, but I don't know if it's ever going to happen at this point. And I've read, you know, the books and there are plenty of movies to make out of them.

15:42So what's going on there, guys? John, you have one? I have two. You know I always cheat. A Little Life and Secret History. Oh, yeah. Secret History is, like, never, ever going to be made. Somebody's got the rights that they shouldn't. Something along those lines. And then A Little Life, I don't know. Like, you would think they would make that. It's like the book du jour of the last 15 years. Yeah. Okay, next question. After last month, is Timmy still the most bankable movie star under 35? I think so, actually. I know we're talking about Zendaya and Tom Holland. They're double whammy of success here with The Odyssey and Spider-Man.

16:27But when you really break it down, Tom Holland is a great Spider-Man, but that is the franchise he leads. Timmy can greenlight any movie he signs on to. Every producer wants to work with him. I assume every director wants to work with him because he is one of the few young stars who can green light a movie. It doesn't matter what the movie is. If he's in it, they will make that movie. Zendaya has had supporting roles in a lot of these bigger successes, but I think she is definitely on the way up there. I think we just need one more movie where she's the lead, and it really is her performance that is bringing in the audience, and I think that's going to happen.

17:12I mean, I guess I was reading something that maybe the Barry Jenkins movie is her next project, but that might be sort of more of an auteur or awards-y movie, so I don't know if it's going to be that, but I feel like she just needs one more film that's really hers. What do you think, John? I think that Timmy and Zendaya are exactly equal. I think Timmy has more stats, like you're saying, but he has a little bit more baggage, too. I think that some people maybe are like, I don't know if I can deal with a Marty Supreme press tour. Whereas Zendaya is, you know, perfection on a press tour. Perfection, professional.

17:56I think she got the drama to open. Yes. I mean, what more can this young lady do to prove that she is a major movie star? So I would say Timmy and Zendaya are the most bankable stars under 35. I would say Tom Holland would be, except he just hasn't, he has not opened a movie on his own that isn't Spider-Man. Right. And so his next movie is that Fred Astaire movie. And if that is big, then, you know, he's golden. And so, yeah, I think we're in agreement, but I would put Zendaya in there. Last rapid fire. Can Marvel actually pull off the X-Men reset or is there just too much superhero fatigue. Well, I am a closet X-Men fan.

18:46I don't really like a lot of superhero stuff, but I really loved the X-Men growing up. What about you, John? Did you watch the old movies? The Halle Berry movies? Yeah, I watched those X-Men, and then they did all these various different versions that lost me on the way. I'm with you. X-Men to me is one of the best there is. There's just so much there. The characters are rich. Yeah. The female characters are incredible. Yeah. So I think the question is right. Sadie Sink, spoiler alert if you haven't seen Spider-Man yet, but Sadie Sink was revealed as Jean Grey. So she's sort of the first confirmed casting of the new X-Men.

19:25And they're like casting it up really quickly now. I feel like there's announcements every day, but I don't know which ones are official. Yeah, I know. They're really going for like this exciting group of sort of, you know, rising stars like Sadie to reboot this. And the difference now is they're under the Marvel Cinematic Universe because Disney acquired Fox and all that. So will that help these movies? And I kind of think there's been enough time that there won't be fatigue. As long as they treat it separately from the rest of the, like, Avenger stuff and make it feel unique, you know, kind of in the way that, like, Black Panther feels unique, even though those characters cross over.

20:12Like, it has to have a point of view, I think, that makes it feel for this next generation and doesn't feel just like, you know, a cash grab. Yeah, I agree. However, it is director dependent, I think. For X-Men rebooting it for the third time, they need to be pretty ambitious. But that's just my opinion. Who knows? Yeah, I'm hopeful at this point seeing some of the casting. And the director is Jake Schreier, who did Thunderbolts. But Beef's creator, Lee Seung-jin, who obviously I love Beef and I think he's an incredible writer, is working on the script with the Bayer co-creator Joanna Kahlo. So that makes me optimistic at least.

20:57We really loved all these questions, so please keep them coming. You can send them in anytime as Oscar season continues to heat up. You can send them to littlegoldmen at vanityfair.com. We're going to take a quick break, and John, I'm handing the rest of this episode off to you. Thank you. I have so much power this week. When we get back, we're featuring my interview with writer and Widow's Bay creator Katie Dippold. Don't go away.

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23:39Welcome back to Little Gold Men. So if you've been listening to this show for the last couple of months, you already know that I loved Widow's Bay. It's a genre-blending horror comedy show on Apple TV that was nominated for a whopping 19 Emmys. And my guest today, Katie Dippold, is the creator and showrunner behind the series, which has already been renewed for a second season. If you haven't seen the show, here's the premise. Matthew Reese stars as Tom Loftus, the mayor of the titular Widow's Bay, which is an island town off the coast of Massachusetts. Tom's goal as mayor is to make Widow's Bay a top tourist destination.

24:18He wants to make it the next Martha's Vineyard. The trouble is the place is haunted, or maybe it's cursed. Each episode gives you a few more clues about what's really going on and lets you explore different weird corners of the island. the show is also truly scary and making sure that it was was really important to katie katie's a comedy writer but she's also a huge horror fan which we'll talk about and it's a through line in a lot of her work and that is where we started our conversation hi katie thank you so much for joining me thanks for having me okay so you're a big horror fan i assume correct yes what was the movie that made you fall in love with the genre I mean, I feel like there's three different answers, honestly, because there's the first horror movie I saw, I remember seeing.

25:11And then there's the horror movie I shouldn't have seen at a young age. And then there's the one I just loved the most. So I remember seeing Halloween, John Carpenter's Halloween. I loved it so much. I just think it's a masterpiece. I went to the movies. I think I was seeing Who Framed Roger Rabbit, but I slipped in to see Silence of the Lambs for like 10 minutes. Which 10 minutes? She was just talking to Lecter. Luckily, it wasn't what happened when she walks away from Lecter because that scene I remember seeing later, like a couple years later, still too young for it and to understand what that man was doing and what he threw at her face.

25:51I think this is a great way to start a podcast. Yes. is you bring up a scene. If you can bring up scene at anybody, yes. Yeah, if you can, you bring up bodily fluid within the first five minutes. That's the publicity rule. Yeah. The quicker you can get to that, you know, the sooner you poke them, yeah. I do think Sounds of Lambs is one of the greatest movies ever made. It's perfect, yeah. I also love Jaws. But the honest answer of the first horror movie I remember seeing was called Rawhead Rex, which was about this beast that went around and tearing people apart of a giant, like, spiked fist. It's the best I can remember about that.

26:28Do you find comedy in horror films? For example, Ari Aster thinks that Midsommar is a comedy, a dark comedy. I saw Midsommar and I laughed so hard. And it may not, I don't know if it's at the parts that he meant, but the parts of the movie where the boyfriend's gaslighting her was so just perfectly on the money. I was like, when something is just so well done and so specific and detailed, like I laughed out loud because I'm like, that's incredible. Like it's just so truthful. So I agree with him. I thought it was hilarious and terrifying though. Yeah, and then there's horror movies that are done by people I can tell just have a really good sense of humor.