Summer Movie Preview, Plus: The Gilded Age’s Power Couple

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2:35Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. Later in today's show, we're handing over the mic to Chris Murphy, who got to sit down last week with two of the stars of The Gilded Age, Morgan Spector and Carrie Coon. But first, we are joined by our best friend in the world, Hilary Buses. Hi, Hilary. Me again. What's going on? I heard there was some conflict about you revealing that you're our best friend in the Tony episode, but Chris is a little hurt. I mean, look, Chris can dry his tears on Morgan Spector's lustrous beard.

3:09Yeah. I want to say for Chris, you know, this is his first time even being nominated. And there is a large runway. We have another season coming up. And if he campaigns correctly, I could see him getting the title. I could. I think it'll be like an Emmy area award where there can be two winners. I love that. Chris can win Best Comedy or Musical and I can win Best Drama. There you go. All right. We have quite a few things to catch up on. John, did you finally see Backrooms? I did. I saw Backrooms. I'm going to say three things. One, my biggest takeaway from it, aside from the filmmaking and everything, was that A24 has created their own Insidious, and they will have the ability to make sequels with this film for some time.

4:05Two, I think that it has a wildly different aesthetic than the recent horror films that we've seen in the last 10 years. Backrooms is all this fluorescent lighting, and it has an eerie aesthetic that is very different from what we've seen. And then three, he's very lucky that Chiwetel Ejiofor and Renata Reinsva are his two lead characters. There's a lot more acting in this than I thought. You talked, Rebecca, about like the level of producers they had on this project. Well, these producers then also obtained two very high-end actors to take you through this experimental film. And the audience was very into it.

4:55Somebody brought a sketchbook with them because I think they were like sketching stuff. Some people sort of knew the internet lore. Some people were just like me there to like gawk. Like the people next to me were just like, we don't know nothing about these back rooms. What do you know? And I was like, nothing. And my seat is broken. Would you say it was an age divide? It was like 30 and younger. It was all young. It was all young. I mean, I might have been the oldest person. Or maybe somebody with their teenage kid. I think this and Obsession is like going to be one of the biggest entertainment stories of the year.

5:30And I think it's really cool because it's fun to see something new break through in such a big way. And I don't know what the backrooms are. They're everything. And they're nothing. And they're inside of us. And maybe they're just below us. I don't know. But sometimes they're scary. Also, this past weekend was the Tony Awards. Hillary, how did you watch it? I watched it mostly in clips. I did not sit through the whole thing. Well, did you see the opening number? Did you see? I loved it. Thanks, opener. I, God bless, I loved it too. I had a great time when she said, get you, get you, Leslie Manville.

6:11I felt my soul separate from the cage of my body and ascend to the heavens. Yeah, I just watched it at home with a couple friends. It was a good time, as always, as I said last week on our Tony show. It's just a fun awards show to watch, even if you don't have any idea what's going on. They give some context for the musical numbers. Many of the musicals that perform choose their opening number, which is helpful in terms of context and means that you don't really have to understand much of what's going on. But yeah, I thought it was a good time. I was happy with most of the winners too. John, do you have a dog in the fight, Tony Wise?

6:48Did you? So this year, the only thing I saw was Oedipus. I'm sorry, Oedipus. You have to say it Britishly. Sorry, the only thing I saw was Oedipus. Starring Gitchy Gitchy Leslie Manville. I thought that the Cola Scola joke where they said women can have it all was so funny. I loved that joke. They are a national treasure. I hope that they can come to the Tonys somehow every year, even when there's no real reason. Yes. And it is true what you guys say. If you don't know the shows, if you don't know, like, all of the nominees, the Tony Awards are so much better than the Emmys. They're just entertaining because on some level, the point is not who wins.

7:32The point is getting people excited about Broadway. Yes, and they do it. Yeah, who could not enjoy that? The one thing that I will point out before we move on is Death of a Salesman won revival. Gitchy, Gitchy, Laurie Metcalf won featured actress. Joe Mantello won for directing that same show. But you know who none of them thanked in their speech and who did not show up on the stage at the end was? Scott Rudin. Yeah. Interesting. The question is, did he go to any of the parties afterwards? Well, for that, you're going to have to ask your second best friend, Chris Murphy, because he went to the parties.

8:04I went to sleep. I'm just sorry. I'm writing in my notebook of friends. Hold on one second. But overall, like, this wasn't the biggest year on Broadway. It didn't have the biggest musicals. They still put on a great show. And then it was fun to see Megan Thee Stallion come out. I think they did a great job. It was a good show. Yeah, no, the Megan Thee Stallion stuff felt good because, yeah, she had to leave her run of Moulin Rouge very early. She's had a personally traumatic year. It really felt like the theater community wants to, like, welcome her and made her better. That was nice. I liked that.

8:38It gave me a warm feeling. Yeah, and it sort of is like the theater community is, like, everywhere. It's like in all walks of life, there are theater geeks, and that was kind of fun. Yeah. Well, I think we should jump back into film. It's officially summer, also known as the biggest season at the box office. So before we hand things off to Chris, we're going to do a little summer movie preview and talk about the movies we expect to do really well and maybe a few indies that could be pleasant summer surprises. Plus, does this season's slate make us feel good about the future of Hollywood? We've got some thoughts.

9:15All right, so a lot of trailers are out. Hilary, what do you feel like are going to be the biggest, most anticipated movies, at least on your radar? Well, the obvious answer is The Odyssey, the new Christopher Nolan. It's a big spectacle. Every actor in Hollywood is in it. I, you know, Oppenheimer made$9 billion, so it's going to be commercially successful. It's likely going to be an awards player as well. I mean, maybe not. Maybe this is more Tenet than Oppenheimer. But, yeah, that, I feel, has the biggest potential for a breakout. And it's also exciting because, you know, it's not a superhero movie.

9:48It's not a traditional blockbuster. I mean, it is so clear that The Odyssey is the biggest movie of the summer just based on when the tickets went on sale last week and the AMC site crashed. and the level of interest that people have in watching this movie in IMAX theaters. It's just, he has eventized his movies in a way where you feel like not only do you have to see them, but you have to see them on the most expensive screen on the best way possible. It just feels to me, I don't know any other movie this summer that has that level of determination by the fans to see it in such a big way. I think fans are definitely going to come out for the new Spider-Man just because that is the most popular movie franchise maybe of recent times.

10:45Feels like the most popular superhero thing currently. Like there's Supergirl as well. That's a Warner Brothers movie. And I'm sure that that will make a lot of money. The first Superman last summer did pretty well. Yeah, the buzz is a bit concerning. And obviously, I think female-led movies, unfortunately, just have such a harder road. All female-led movies, but female-led superhero movies have a harder road. So I think that one feels a little bit more like a gamble, especially like what is the narrative of success, but I hope it does well. yeah and then there's a a live action Moana which people feel mixed about it's time for a live action Moana but I still think it's gonna do really well it'll make money but I think anybody who goes is like children are going to want to but I think any adult who goes is going grudgingly there's not an adult who's excited about just seeing The Rock do the same thing that he did in the animated movie and speaking of Disney sequels there's also Toy Story 5 which is going to be huge I mean that will be something to watch for Oscars Like those movies have competed before in that.

11:49So if it is great, you know, this could be one of the summer movies that stretches out to Oscar season. But I think it's going to do a ton of money. If you were to predict now Odyssey getting a Best Picture nomination, yay or nay? I would say yes. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, agreed. That was easy. Maybe the more interesting question is whether Taylor Swift is getting a nomination or even a win for Best Original Song for the Toy Story song. that she likely wrote in order to get into the Oscar conversation. I think she's getting at least a nomination. Yes, absolutely. Should we talk about some of the smaller summer movies?

12:27Yeah, there's a bunch that I think have played at earlier festivals that I think could probably be like indie breakouts. You guys both saw the invite? Yes, we saw the invite, I believe, together at Sundance. And you liked it? I liked it. I think it's really funny. I think that it has a lot of potential to be kind of a word of mouth, slow burn kind of thing. And then I Want Your Sex is coming out this summer. That was also a Sundance film. Olivia Wilde had a big January. Yeah. That comes out July 31st. And then Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, which was a canned film that played quite well, comes out in August.

13:02So I feel like all three of those could possibly overperform as indies. I'll throw in one more, which is John Early's movie Maddie's Secret out in June. and that was at TIFF, I think, last year. Yeah, I hear great reviews. Yes, it's got a lot of great buzz. I have not seen it myself yet. But from what I hear, it's basically a Lifetime movie played very straight, which sounds very funny. I really want to see that one too. I think I'm optimistic for the Indies this summer. There's also Gail Daughtry and the Celebrity Sex Pass, which we saw in Sundance. It's the Wet Hot American Summer people doing a new film.

13:41It's really funny. It's like 15 jokes a minute. It's coming out in July. And it's like, if you want to go to the theater, get some popcorn and turn your brain off completely. It's aggressively dumb in a great way. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's interesting. The box office is, you know, going to be up, I think, this year, finally, which, you know, they desperately needed. But it is due to some smaller films just wildly overperforming and then what is going to be the success of Odyssey, Toy Story, Moana and some of these franchise films and also the Spider-Man movie. So is the State of the Union strong?

14:27Do you guys feel like this summer seems like a healthy summer for Hollywood? I think there's a lot of optimism because the first part of the year has been quite strong already. So I think people are really hopeful for sure. Yeah. Having a new Christopher Nolan, having a new Steven Spielberg, like these are proven quantities. And then like big kid properties as well. I think it's a strong combination. That's the only thing, though, is that it's the kids' movies that are going to really get there. Disclosure Day on tracking, it's hard to say what this movie is going to do yet. Well, I'm in the small minority of people who did not like Disclosure Day.

15:05Generally, I think the critical response has been pretty strong. So make of that what you will. Maybe I'm just talking to real film geek Spielberg freaks. It's interesting. There's definitely more of a divide than what the reviews have been. So I'm excited to either agree or disagree with you. Okay. Well, we'll check in after you guys see it. Well, Hillary, thank you for joining us today to talk about all this. And I can't wait to have you back. Of course, anytime. After a quick break, VF staff writer Chris Murphy sits down with the stars of the Gilded Age. Don't go away.

15:52Welcome back to Little Gold Men. And we're now going to hand the mic off to our colleague and friend, Vanity Fair staff writer Chris Murphy. Chris recently caught up with Morgan Spector and Carrie Coon, who play husband and wife power couple George and Bertha Russell on the HBO period drama The Gilded Age. George and Bertha are new money elites who are desperately trying to break into New York high society. For the first two seasons of the show, they were a united front. But last season, the Russells' marriage hit some serious turbulence, which left viewers wondering whether one of television's most iconic couples could survive.

16:28Chris, take it away. I'm so excited to be chatting with Morgan Spector and Carrie Coon, who play husband and wife George and Bertha Russell in the HBO period drama The Gilded Age. Thanks for joining me, you guys. Thank you. It's a pleasure. Nice to see you again. Yeah, I know. I just mentioned that I know you both are back in the saddle filming shooting season four of The Gilded Age. How does it feel to be stepping back in the corsets and the waistcoats of George and Bertha? Well, I use the corset as an appetite suppressant, so it's actually a very good weight loss journey. Works for me. But yeah, no, it's great.

17:04Four seasons is the most of any one thing I've ever done. So it's really fun to get to just play with the permutations of who these people can be at this point and see how far we can push. Same. Same for me. Though I have to say my stamina was really low this year. Oh. I found acclimatizing to the corsets and high heels and hairstyles particularly hard. Oh my gosh. I will say it was so amazing to see the sausage get made at Gold Coast Studios and watch you guys rehearse on set. And I was, it's remarkable. The scale of the show is something that I think gets talked about a lot. It's big, it's real, it's huge for this day and age.

17:39But seeing it in person, all, you know, their production building sets like right around here. There's, you know, Louisa Jacobson and people shooting over here. And then you guys surrounded by these bigger than life production sets. How do you like lock in and like do the work surrounded by like all these people running around making things? All the work is done for us. Yes, that's right. I mean, we walk in and you're like, they're better than me at their job. So I better show up. And my foyer, I mean, our foyer is incredible. It looks like Grand Central. And when I walk into the foyers in Newport, I'm like, my foyer is better than this.

18:17My chandelier is bigger than yours. Ours is certainly in better taste, I think. I think some of the Newport cottages, they're a little OTT for sure. Okay, well, we can't only talk about season four, obviously, because we're shooting it right now. So let's go back and look a little bit back at season three, which I've been a fan, I think you both know this, since day one of The Gilded Age. But it really feels like season three is when the show sort of like broke containment from, you know, theater loving, story loving person to mass society. What do you think it was about this most recent season that really struck a chord with, you know, a larger audience?

18:54I think, to be honest, you have to commit to shows these days in order to find an audience. I think that is just part of it, that there is so much stuff that people sort of say to themselves, I'll get to that eventually. And by the time they get to it, it's gone. It's been canceled because they didn't get to it. Or if it's a movie, it's not in the theater anymore. And their office wasn't good enough because you didn't go. And for studios and networks, they really have to give things some breathing space to find an audience. So that's one thing. But also I think season three was exciting. Season three was really – there was a lot happening.

19:28You know, season three narratively had a lot going on. So it was like, yes, you're getting your snide remarks. And yes, you're getting your like micro moments that, you know, resonate in a way that they wouldn't necessarily in our contemporary lives. But you're also getting actual big time drama. And I think that combination was was fun. And that brought in, you know, it brought in more people. I will say, too, it's a cross generational show. I meet so many like moms and daughters who watch it together, people who watch it with their grandparents. You know, if you want to engage with the seeds of where we are now, you can.

20:01And if you just want to not think about that part and just look at costumes, you can. You can do that, too. It can either inspire you to get curious about New York and the history behind the Gilded Age, or you can just really enjoy some costumes in Melaroma. Yeah, I love that. It's like the world is so sumptuous and so beautiful, as we've already discussed. But then it's like, oh, there are real seeds of things that are happening. You know, we're seeing history repeat itself. I mean, the conversations that I have with my friends, it's like, oh, it's like we're sort of in a second Gilded Age period now.

20:27where the robber barons of yesteryear, the Georgian Berthas, have sort of become these like tech autocrats and whatnot. So do you think that's part of the reason that the show is sort of like really struck a chord with viewers? And what would you say to that, I guess, read of the show that we're sort of in a Gilded Age period at the structure? I mean, I think it's just structural resonance, right? Like it is two periods of alarming inequality. and I don't think the show is necessarily setting out to investigate that. You know, this is the era of Jacob Rees and how the other half lives. This is the era of like people really waking up to what tenement life was like.

21:04You know, we've dipped into that a tiny bit, but that's not really where this show's interests lie. But just the resonance between today and then is so exact that it's unavoidable. And so the show ends up having this sort of, I think, subversive, trenchant wit about it in the way that it sort of juxtaposes these two time periods. Right. That's what art can do when it's reflecting the world back to you in that way, but with some artful distance. Yeah. Obviously, it's historical fiction, but there's a lot of real stuff in there, right? I would love to know, now that you're on your fourth season, are you still learning things about the time period and about, you know, the Gilded Age?

21:43I mean, for me, it's the business stuff and will turn towards some other aspect of, you know, how these guys were making money and how they were, you know, trying to get over on one another. And that part of it is always fascinating because these guys were innovating in completely unregulated areas. It's much like AI, right? I'm sure in 50 years, we're going to look back and think, how did we ever allow them to be unregulated given all the harms that they could do, right? And that was this era where you could just kind of, you know, there's a tremendous amount of financial chicanery that goes on in 2026.

22:18But back then there were just no guardrails. So these guys could be wildly inventive. And, you know, they succeeded in crashing the economy several times sort of single-handedly. You know what I mean? It was a wild time. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting to go specifically to your characters of, you know, Bertha and George. You're sort of at the forefront of that as these sort of disruptors into the established New York scene. And the whole entire time, basically, for the vast majority of the three seasons that we've seen, they're like peas in a pod. They're doing this together. They've got each other's back.

22:54You know, we're rooting for them. And then we see in season three, cracks begin to show. And, you know, our favorite couple begins to fray and fissure. I would love to talk about playing that arc last season and both of your experiences. Kind of, you know, we end on a really kind of tough note for George and Bertha. He kind of walks out on her at the end of season three. Yeah. We were sad. We were sad. We like their marriage, too. We like the respect and the mutual ambition and all that sexiness. But it was hard. As actors, it was hard to do that because we really like each other. We like working together.

23:30Yeah. Morgan, is that true? Do you like working with Carrie Coon? Yes. You know what I was thinking of too, is that I think both Carrie and I, we're both a little proud of our marriages. You know what I mean? We're both a little proud of our partnerships and the way we each nurture each other's lives and allow and try to create that possibility for your partner's fulfillment. So getting to bring what we know in our own lives into these characters and try to sort of bring that into this fictional marriage was really satisfying for both of us because, you know, it just felt really authentic. And then to sort of, you know, it was like as it began to go bad, we wanted to make sure we were staying true to the essence of the thing, even as it starts to become complicated and fall apart.

24:09And I think we managed to do that. And, you know, we leave them in a place where, yes, it's fraught. They're not seeing eye to eye. They're not together. but I don't think all hope is lost. And also I found it, I still found it really supremely relatable. I'm entering into my, I think I celebrate 13 years of marriage this year. I have two kids. Marriage over the longterm. Thank you. It's not easy. And there are moments, you know, my husband in real life is 15 years older than me. And he is going through different things. He's 60 and I'm 45. And those are really different places to be in life. And so when, when George has his near death experience, and is in spiritual crisis, that experience is not accessible to Bertha.

24:53And so they have this gulf between them that feels very real, like something that really does occur in marriages when your partners may be going through some big paradigm shift, as we all do, and you can't quite catch up to them there yet, or they're not ready to reveal the full scope of that experience for themselves, or they can't articulate it to themselves yet, let alone to you. And so you're waiting for an opportunity to understand better where they are. And that to me was something I could relate to in the season at least. I could really get my hooks into this idea that Bertha's just feeling really left behind where George is psychologically and spiritually.

25:31But it has been confirmed for her that she's in the right relationship and the right marriage and that she almost lost him and that she will do anything to make sure she never loses him again. And he's not there yet. And he's still working through things. Yeah. Hey, yeah, Morgan, I'd love to hear if you draw anything from your own experience. I definitely have had the experience of, you know, I'm also 45 and getting to this point where you're not young anymore, right? You're not like a young, you know, let's say it's you're in the prime of your life, right? But like, you know, you're, I think, generously halfway through and you have to kind of think, I've done it a certain way thus far.