The Academy Nominations Have Gone Global

0:29Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men, for the class photo. Do you want to talk about it? Yeah, it's a really fun event. Every nominee is invited, so there's 200 and some odd nominees plus their guests in the room. And at the end of the lunch, they get called up for the official class photo, which is really beautifully done because each person is called up in sort of a random order. Like they call up a few big stars first, like Jacob Elordi and Rose Byrne and a few others, or the back row because they're tall. And then it goes on to names you're not as familiar with, sound mixers and editors or production designers you may not know.

1:06And then they come around and the last few names are often big names who end up right in the front. This year it was Guillermo del Toro, Ryan Coogler, and Timothee Chalamet. And I got to say, the love for Sinner, everyone got a nice applause. But when Ryan Coogler was called up, that room went nuts. And when most of the Sinner's team were called up, And part of me is like, is that because they had the most nominees, obviously, with 16 nominations? No, I don't think so. I think there's a lot of love for that movie and especially Ryan Coogler in those rooms. So it's hard not to get swayed by that.

1:40Obviously, it's a room of only a few hundred people, not 11 ,000 voters. But part of our job is reading those rooms, you know, as we're trying to figure out who's going to win. You think I'm just drinking the Kool-Aid, John? No, I don't. I think that I believe that that is one of the most telling ways to feel how things are going. And then, you know, like I've always said, you know, just going to a screening and talking to people at screenings because then you're really talking to the voters. But, you know, the Academy nominees lynching, you know, what, 70 % of those people are already Academy voters, right?

2:23Mm-hmm. So. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of branch leaders of the Academy voters there and all the leaders of the Academy. So it's not just the nominees. There's a lot of the leadership is there too who are all voters. And so I think if you're feeling that, that is definitely a sign that there could be what you were suggesting maybe a split in best picture and director. Yeah, I mean, the preferential ballot makes this even trickier to think about with picture. what film are they going to put one or will there be a lot of people putting the same film for two I just I don't know you know I think a lot about the Moonlight La La Land year Damien Chazelle won director obviously as we all remember Moonlight won picture and that split felt right to me honestly that year I think Damien directed the hell out of that movie and I think Moonlight is the movie that stands the test of time so I don't know it could be chill I could be just mentally trying to make this race interesting for me.

3:22But where would you do the split then? Where do you think the split's coming? I can tell you, I think that PTA will get director because he's never won before and he's, you know, but then the split would then go to Sinners for Best Picture. If there is one. If there is one, I think that's the more likely way it goes. I think you're right. People think PTA deserves it for the legacy of his career along with the fact that he's never won. and plus, I mean, One Battle is such an incredible film. Yeah, of course, of course, of course. Yeah, so we should just say, both these movies are incredible. We're not discussing the quality of the film.

3:59We're discussing the race, which is, that's the fun thing about that room. My secret sauce is that after the event is over, I stand at valet for a long time because all the talent comes through the valet line. All the awards strategists come through and that's where I gossip and try to feel how people are feeling in that room. And yeah, I mean, I think people are really acknowledging that the supporting races feel pretty up in the air, that Jesse Buckley should just get the Oscar now. That one's real locked for lead actress. And then, I don't know, I kept hearing the theories about maybe Ethan Hawke is a real contender for best actor.

4:37Which you shot me down. Which I shot you down. Was it on this podcast you said that? I can't remember if you said it publicly or just privately. Well, both. I actually think it was both. I think you gave me a sort of a side eye on this podcast and then verbally you were like, you're insane. Yeah, I mean, it's hard because I don't think the traditional way of like looking at who wins what leading into the Oscars isn't the whole picture anymore at all. You know, I mean, we look at Demi Moore. I mean, that's just, you can't go with that all the time. So the races are really up in the air is where I landed after that, which is so much fun for me.

5:13But the event is great. They mix up all the tables. So you're not sitting with your film. You're sitting with a quote-unquote random group of people from other films. So yes, of course, a lot of the stars and directors are at the same tables. But my table had a costume designer from Marty Supreme and the sound nominee from Frankenstein. And so I think at the room it's fun because it feels a little more equal footing, even if it's not exactly based on where the tables are. And then the press is just randomly put at a table in sort of a lottery fashion. and you like literally pick your table number out of a fishbowl as you arrive.

5:47So it's got a little bit of a fun, whimsical feel to it, that event. And it's really special for them to take that class photo. Sean Penn wasn't there. Neither was Renata Reinsba. Those are sort of the two. She's filming a movie. She's filming a movie. Sean Penn just doesn't, I don't think, do this stuff very much. But everyone else that I could see attended. So it was a really warm, fun event. Yeah, everyone did, more so than other years. It was a nice time for sure. And just so you know, listeners, you're hearing this on Tuesday, but we're recording it on the Thursday before the holiday weekend.

6:22We're daring to perhaps take Monday off in this very busy time. So we don't yet know the results of the Wuthering Heights box office or the Indie Spirit Awards, which I will be at. We are as excited as you to find out, and we'll definitely be talking about it in a future episode. Today on the show, we're talking about international films and how so many of them have broken into races outside of Best International Feature Film at the Oscars this year. We'll be previewing the five nominees in that category and talking about their path to the Oscars and how the changing makeup of the Academy has helped international films reach bigger platforms.

7:01And to help us out, it's Little Goldman's best friend, Hilary Busez. Hello. Welcome back, Hilary. Hi, everybody. Hi, Hillary. I'll tell you this. I'll start out by saying that I am very tired. And do you know why I am very tired? Because you had to watch a lot of movies? I had to catch up on the international features, which, granted, I should have done before two days ago. But yes, I have now seen every international film that is nominated, and I'm ready. I did my homework. And they're all so uplifting. Yes. What I loved is the hope I felt. Yes. The hope, the optimism. I walked away from each of these movies, all five really.

7:43Yeah. Like the world is great. Life is worth living. Society is going great. Humanity is going great. Yeah, I know. These are tough watches, but the filmmaking is incredible. Like I felt like I had a lot of mixed emotions because I had to really steal myself to watch a couple of these. But God, it's just like, there's so many incredible filmmakers around the world. I'm glad we're doing this. And as we're saying, international films have become so much more important as part of the whole Oscar race. So the five films that are nominated for the Best International Feature Film Oscar this year are The Secret Agent, It Was Just an Accident, Sentimental Value, Surat, and The Voice of Hin Rajab.

8:24So I think we should probably just go in order and kind of talk about each of the films and what we thought. And that would mean we're starting with The Secret Agent. Anyone want to explain the plot? I mean, you just talked to Wagner Moura, so you're the expert, right? And everyone listening to this podcast has listened to me talk to Wagner Moura. So they know that he plays a professor in Brazil in 1977. And he's essentially on the run and in hiding because he upset a political official in a regime that was in Brazil, which was at the time a dictatorship. And it's an incredible feat of storytelling.

9:03I mean, I did talk about this with Wagner, that it's capturing sort of ordinary people and what their life was like during this time. And the characters are so rich and you really care about what is happening to his character. But I think it really introduced me to a culture and a time I was not that familiar with and it felt so authentic and so real. So I really loved this film and especially Wagner's performance. What did you guys think? I was an early adopter. You were. You were early on this one. It's true. All right, John, you liked this movie before it was cool. Congratulations. Thank you.

9:39I'm not a poser like some people. But you will not let us forget it. I think a couple of things to note. I mean, this film got a Best Picture nomination. So it's competing in both categories, which is, I think, a pretty big deal considering it's long. It's one of the longest films this year. It's like something like two hours and 40. It's also coming right after I'm Still Here, which covered similar material during a similar time period. I know, but so different. It's such a different way. I mean, the filmmaking is so different and the story is so different. I think actually, Rebecca, you hit the nail on the head.

10:22It really is just like ordinary people in this time period. I mean, it was just a fascinating juxtaposition to see what was going on in Brazil during that time period. And then in the middle, it has this explosive scene with the leg where you're like, huh? And then the last, I would say, you know, no spoilers, the last 30 minutes, it, you know, revs up the drama. And I thought that last sequence was pretty suspenseful and some expert filmmaking. Okay, I will tell you guys, as I said, I was watching these movies one after another, boom, boom, boom, lots of subtitles. It was night. That was the only time that I could do it.

11:08I was feeling a little bit of attention drift and then boom, that leg sprang out of the ocean, zipped over to a park bench and started beating people to death. And I was like, you have my attention. It's a secret agent. Yeah. I should say I read about it afterwards while I was watching the movie. I was like, what the hell? What's going on here? But yes, this is a reference in the movie. There is literally a disembodied leg that attacks people. It is a reference in the movie to newspaper reports that were written contemporaneously in 1977. You know, it was a violent time. A lot of atrocities were kind of being committed on the daily and journalists were getting very frustrated because they couldn't actually write about what was happening and who was actually committing these atrocities.

11:51So a journalist in Brazil in the 70s would write about a quote-unquote hairy leg that was attacking people and be like, well, the leg is at it again as like a joke. And so obviously I did not know this going into the movie, but it adds an extra layer. And I'm sure that if you are more familiar with Brazilian history than I am, that happening strikes a chord with you. Yeah, The Secret Agent is great for the way that it withholds information or like, maybe not withholds it, but kind of doles it out piece by piece over the course of its runtime in a way that's really sophisticated and really respects its audience's intelligence and it's a good movie to go in not knowing anything because the way that information is conveyed, I think, is really smart.

12:32I think that's something I feel in general with a lot of these films and international filmmakers in general. I think they allow their audiences to sort of work for it more than American films do and I love that, that it comes together. You have to be a little more patient and I think it really pays off at the end of this film, which becomes pretty emotional towards the end. But it's also a beautiful film to look at. The costuming, the production design is incredible. The mix of actors that are sort of known, like Wagner Mora, and then some of the actors are known in Brazil, but some of them are not.

13:08And like every face is so interesting. It got a casting nomination, which is a big deal. And I see why, because of the group they brought together for this. It's just like every choice is really beautifully made on this one. so this film overperformed i would say in the nominations i think it just is one of those films that was gaining more and more and more momentum throughout the season and then also you know vagnar moore getting a best actor nomination which when i saw it early i i did leave the theater and i was like he's a lock like in my opinion and you know just because of the level of his performance.

13:51This film has definitely been watched by the Academy and embraced by the Academy and different branches of the Academy. I mean, the actor's branch is a huge branch. The casting branch, you know, is a specific branch. And then obviously everyone gets to vote for Best Picture. So for it to go through and get Best Picture means that a lot of the other people did as well. So this is one where I think going into what they call phase two of the Academy, a lot of people had already seen it. Any one of the Globes. Any one of the Globes. Vognamora. And he's like really been a darling in these rooms. Like I was just at the luncheon and he had the coolest outfit on.

14:34Everyone seemed to want to talk to him. He's so charming and like humble in those scenarios. You could feel people sort of being drawn to him in a way that is really good for this film in general and for him in general. So that's a big plus for this film as well. But I mean, there's nothing like this Brazilian army that is backing this social media. Like anything you post about this movie, it's just like Brazilian flags all over social media nonstop. It's like saying Beetlejuice three times. They are there. They are so invested in their films being recognized by the Academy. It's awesome. It's really cool.

15:15It is cool. All right, should we move on to the next one? Let's do it. Next we've got It Was Just an Accident. Who wants to take the log on? I'm going to take this one on. All right. A mechanic gets a visitor to his shop whose car had broken down, you know, a couple miles up. and he believes it to be this prison warden that had held him captive and a group of other people captive. And he basically kidnaps this man. He brings together this like motley group of people that were all in the prison together and were victims of the interrogator. And they decide whether or not if he actually is that person And if he is, what are they going to do?

16:03What are they going to do with this man that has sort of haunted them in their lives post being released from prison? It's tonally like at sometimes a very broad comedy and then sometimes very, very suspenseful. It was shot in Iran, which means it was shot in secrecy because you're not allowed to film movies like this without the government's permission. and then its director, Jafar Panahi, has been ordered by the Iranian government to come back and serve one year sentence time for producing this film. Yeah, I mean, such a deeply personal story for him, obviously, as someone who had been in prison, but it's also, it's just so well done.

16:52The way he navigates tone is wild to me. Yeah. You know, towards the end of the film, it's very tense and hard to watch. But earlier, there are fun. I mean, two of these friends he picks up are like getting married. You know, she's in a wedding dress. She's running around in a wedding dress. It feels like he's like Dorothy gathering together, like a crew on the way to meet the wizard. And yeah, but I was also struck by the tone. This is not a funny bunch of movies, but of them, this is the one probably that has like the most dark comedy. And it really resonated for me. I think that the ending is intensely powerful.

17:29You know, I think that with a movie that has this kind of narrative as its backdrop, you know, with Shafar Panahi and having been imprisoned and his co-screenwriter was just arrested again, there are a lot of intense real-life connections. And I think that that can overshadow a movie sometimes, you know, if we're talking about it not because of what the film itself is but because of all the stuff around it. But in this case, like, the real-life narrative is as compelling as the movie itself. and like the movie itself is really, really compelling. Yeah. It won the Palme d 'Or at Cannes, obviously.

18:00So it's been on our radar for a long time. And it also got a screenplay nomination, which I think is very deserved. We thought maybe picture and director had something John and I thought was going to happen, but it didn't make it there. It's just a really strong field, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just an extremely competitive year. I have a theory. Oh, let's hear it. Let's hear it. I think this film doesn't work as well watching it at home as it does in a theater because the tone, especially in the comedic moments, like when they all get out of the car and have to push the van and it's like a little like, do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do, and you're like, what's going on?

18:41It feels like a little Miss Sunshine or something. Yes, yeah. So I think in a theater, you start to hear people laughing and then everyone's like, oh, this is funny, right? Right. I'm not saying that you don't get that watching it at home, but you get it 100 % watching it in a theater. And sometimes that can be hard to get the entirety of the Academy to see your movie in a theater. That's super interesting to hear you say because I've read some interviews with Jafar Panahi where he talks about how different audiences in different countries respond really, really differently to it. and that American audiences do tend to laugh, but in, like, Japan, everybody is silent the entire way through.

19:21Like, it is not funny for them. That's interesting. So, I don't know. It's like a Rorschach test also. Well, we're a little bit more jokey of a people. Well, we tend to laugh and we're uncomfortable also. Yes, you're so right. That's true, too. So, it's just a release of tension some of the times. It's not something that's actually funny, necessarily. We should mention that this is France's submission in this category. Usually the film has to play in its country of origin as one of the rules to being eligible, but obviously Iran wasn't going to do that. So France is like the official country that's submitting it in this category.

19:58It's actually the country that wins the Oscar, not the filmmaker, which I think is a very strange system. But there's just one little caveat with obviously such a complicated journey. Like when you just think about him making this in secret, like that additional layer of challenge of making a movie. I can't, like I would watch scenes and be like, how could he possibly have done this in secret? You know, I mean, it's not like it's all interior. Like there are exterior scenes. It's pretty incredible. Yeah, in broad daylight. Yeah, on the streets. Like I just don't even, I can't even imagine, you know.

20:29No, and it doesn't look like it was shot on like an iPhone. It's a movie. It's like a real, like well lit, you know, fully produced movie. So yeah, I mean the story around it is definitely appealing as well and maybe that's the kind of thing that helps it have an edge in the international film category. at least. Yeah. I don't, I wouldn't say it's a front runner to win here or in screenplay, but I'm happy it made it to nominations and was included in the Panahi's getting the sort of respect and accolades he deserved. We're going to take a break. When we get back, the rest of the nominees for Best International Feature Film.

21:05Don't go away.

21:19Come see Critics at Large live. On February 19th, we're going to be at the 92nd Street Y in New York City for a conversation about Wuthering Heights. There's a new adaptation coming up starring Margot Robbie and Jacob Elordi, and we will certainly be getting into that. but we'll also do what we, humbly I'll say, what we do best. Returning to the text, we're going to go deep on the gothic and Emily Bronte. Join me, Vincent Cunningham, and my co-hosts, Alex Schwartz and Nomi Frye, for the discussion. And crucially, if you buy a VIP ticket, you'll join us for an after party too. Go to 92ny.org for more information.

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23:17Welcome back to Little Gold Men. So let's pick up with the third film on our list, Sentimental Value. Hilary, I think you're up to summarize. I guess I'm up, yeah. Let's do it. Okay, so Stellan Skarsgård is this great director who decides that he is going to have a big comeback moment after not making the movie in 15 years. He writes a screenplay. It's a very personal screenplay about his own childhood and his own mother who killed herself. He asks his daughter, who is an actress, if she will star in the movie playing her own dead grandmother. She's like, no, Dad, you're crazy. Why would I ever do that?

23:51So instead, he hires Elle Fanning to do it, And then it's this very metafictional story about trying to put this movie together in this house, which is the house where his mother died. And it's got, you know, generations of his family's various, you know, drama and trauma kind of inside of its walls. Yeah. This movie, it has so much in it. Like, I watched it for a second time recently with my husband. And I had totally forgotten the opener where Renata Reinsbaugh, like, cannot go on stage. Yeah. how wild and strong that opener is and the tone of that. It's just so well done. And you see that throughout this film, just the filmmaking and the point of view is so unique and confident in a way that I just, I love Joachim Trier's filmmaking.

24:38And I think him combined with Renata Reinspeh is like this dream collaboration. And I don't know, I think I might like her better in this than Worst Person in the World. I mean, I loved Worst Person in the World, but I feel like this film is really rich in a way that every time I watch it, I've found something more interesting to look at in it. Yeah, I mean, this film way overperformed in terms of nominations after being completely blanked by the Actors Awards. So it received nine total nominations, including Best Picture, Supporting Actor, two Actresses in Supporting Actress, lead actress, director, editing, and screenplay.

25:23So... The Academy loves this movie. Yeah. This is a film that, if you remember, Rebecca, like you came back from Telluride and you were like, people really love Sentimental Value. And then after Toronto, I was like, yeah, people really love it. And then I think it's like a slow but steady type thing where, you know, it's a small film. They can't do the splashiest of campaign things. They don't have, you know, set against a political backdrop style, like, narrative to promote. But in the end, it goes back to people really love this movie. And it felt really personal. I mean, the story is really the family's story and how the two sisters interact with the dad.

26:14and they have very different ways of coping with him being pretty much an absentee father. And so I just think it really resonated with audiences like Up and Down. And I think it is the front runner to win this award. And I think there's a world also where he could win for original screenplay, but that's a very competitive category. Yeah, I don't remember who made this joke. I read it somewhere online, probably on Blue Sky, but the theory that this movie really appeals to older Academy members because it's about an old man who writes a screenplay so good that his estranged daughter has to talk to him again.