The Bear Made Ayo Edebiri a Star – and Now a Director

0:03Rebecca:Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV and awards lovers. I'm Rebecca Ford. My guest today is double Emmy nominee and star of The Bear Ayo Edebiri. She recently made history as the first woman to score nominations in the same year for both acting and directing in a comedy series. It's not a big surprise that she's once again nominated in Lead Actress in a Comedy Series for her role as Chef Sidney. She was also nominated in the same category last year, and she won for Supporting Actress for the same role in Season 1. But what I was really excited about was to see her nominated for directing.

0:42Rebecca:She helmed the episode Napkins in her directorial debut. It's all so impressive, but Ayo's not resting on her laurels. She, and her adorable dog Gromit, who you will meet in this episode, are both in London right now as she shoots an upcoming series from Will Sharp. She's also starring in Luca Guadagnino's After the Hunt, which is set to premiere at Venice in just a couple of weeks. Ayo and I got to chat about all of those roles, her future ambitions for directing, her thoughts on all that Sid Carmi shipping, and so much more. I hope you enjoy our conversation as much as I did.

1:19Rebecca:Hello, thank you for joining me on Little Gold Men. Welcome to the podcast. Hi, thanks for having me. From what I understand, you're busy. Are you in production right now? You're shooting something? Yes. What are you up to these days? These days, I'm shooting a series that has been created and is being directed by Will Sharp in London. Oh, great. Fun. And were you over there in London when you heard about the Emmy nominations? And what was that like? Sorry, please finish. Don't let me be rude. What was that like to hear about the bear getting love for the third season in a row? Oh man, it felt really lucky.

1:58Well, honestly, well, it was actually two things were happening. One was that I was working, which was great because then I don't really have my phone with me on set. So I knew that I could kind of have a distraction and just be busy. Like that moment is always a little bit anxiety inducing, even though it's nice. But yeah, you get a little jitters when you remember that that's the day. So I had my phone away, and so I was going to be working. And then we were shooting in an area that actually when the first round of nominations came out, I was at lunch with Will Poulter, and we were shooting right around from the corner from where I was with Will.

2:36So I was like, oh, it's really good luck to be here. And then Will texted me again that day and was like, hello, you were nominated. And so that was a really fun kind of serendipitous moment. But it was nice. It was nice. I was very shocked to be nominated for directing, to be honest.

2:51Rebecca:That's what I wanted to talk about because you were, of course, nominated for acting again for the third year in a row. But you were nominated. Of course. That's not an of course to me. That's my of course. Well, that's kind. But you were nominated for directing the episode Napkins, which was one of my, maybe my favorite episode of that season. So I wanted to kind of go back and ask how that conversation started for you to direct, because it is your directorial debut, and what made you feel like, yes, I'm ready, I can do it. Yeah, I don't know, really. I mean, I wanted to. But Chris and I have been having that conversation for a few months.

3:31Chris Orr, who's the showrunner. Yes, who's the creator of the show and our main director. And since the day we met, he was like, you're a director. and we'd always been having conversations, but that previous season he was like, I want you to think about this seriously if this is something you really want to do. Shadow me when you're working for other directors. Pay attention, ask them questions, sit by monitor, spend time in other departments. The Phishes episode, I was on set and I have a producing card on that episode. But that week, he had me also like sitting with every department and learning their relationship to the process and to the director and what communication can look like with different department heads and just learning the actual mechanics.

4:22because I have a background as a writer and was fortunate enough to be working before COVID when it was, I think, a little bit more common, not becoming common again, but to visit set and to monitor set and to be able to learn from your showrunner and from producer writers and upper level writers what that looks like. So I felt like both as an actor and as a producer, I felt fairly confident about being able to manage like speaking to actors and communicating with producers but I realized that I just didn't have as much knowledge and working with crew and um anyway really I went on a tangent of a lifetime but anyway that we love a tangent that was kind of how that conversation started and then we are fortunate enough to receive the episodes like all at once before we shoot and before he got them he was like there's two in mind that I think could be really nice for you to direct.

5:21Let's see if we overlap. And then we did overlap and it was fortunate enough to have it be this beautiful episode that ended up becoming Napkins.

5:30Rebecca:So Napkins really explores Tina's past. It's such a beautiful episode, but what about it made you feel like that was the right one? I mean, the writing was just so beautiful. It was the one that really, and I just remember reading it and seeing it in my mind, like really clearly, I could just see it. And I think there was a real advantage. I felt that because it was not only a standalone episode of a character that we haven't really gotten to see, but it got to be outside the restaurant, it got to be in the past. And then it also got to connect to before the show had even started, but the feeling of the first season, I just felt like it was really going to be like fertile visually and that I was going to be able to sort of do a little bit of my own thing.

6:23And then also get to like pay homage in a fun way to some of the feelings of the first season visually and pace wise.

6:33Rebecca:what did you learn about yourself from that experience directing that episode i really enjoyed directing that's good yeah i mean i i mean more than like it i really love it and i can't wait to do it more um yeah and it's nice to get to wake up like an hour later because you're not here and wake up i think i learned that i enjoyed that as well um so it sounds like that was such a good experience have you thought about directing a feature or what do you see as sort of your next steps in directing I think I will eventually direct a feature I mean I know that I will but I feel no real rush I think you know process is such a beautiful thing I get to have a different experience of it as an actor and I'm you know writing right now as well and and that's its own process and I think you know directing has its own process for me as well and um whatever I do next I just hope that I'm able to have like the time and space for it um because yeah it's a really beautiful thing to get to kind of be this like conductor of like I don't know it felt like of like the world's greatest orchestra in a way you know like our crew is just so outstanding and everybody is so good at what they do um and everybody comes together to like find this collective vision together, getting to be at the helm of that and helping to facilitate that was really, really rewarding.

8:00Rebecca:Speaking of writing, you co-wrote with Lionel Boyce the episode Worms in the fourth season, which I loved that episode. Oh, thank you. Can you talk about a little... Directed by Janixa Bravo the Great as well. Yeah, it's a real dream team you guys got together there with Daniel Deadweiler, one of my favorite actors. I mean, yeah, the great, the greatest. And to see her do something so fun, I think, was really special. Yes, she is hilarious. She is insane. It was so fun getting to play with that. Yeah. How did you and Lionel end up teaming up to do that? Having privately written, so the sentence was about to be really strange.

8:42But Lionel and I, you know, we write together, and I think we also write solo, And he's like one of my favorite people to get notes from and ping things off from back and forth. And Chris first basically gave me this like assignment and I started writing it and trying to break the story out basically. And I was like, I just keep asking my own thoughts. And I know that we collaborate really well together and it just doesn't really seem right to me to do this without him. And I asked if he'd be even interested and he was like so down. and then went back to Chris and Chris was obviously so supportive and excited.

9:19And yeah, it was just great.

9:21Rebecca:What was sort of the assignment that Chris gave you? Was it like Sydney has a day off or was it much more specific about where you would go? There were things about it that were specific about like what we knew needed to happen. But then there were also things about it that were kind of vague. Like where it's like maybe it's a day off. Maybe it's being alone in the restaurant or something. Or maybe it's with dad. maybe it's something. And then I think this idea of like getting her hair done came to me because I was thinking about, um, just this character and who she is. And I've been playing her now for like four years and her hair is always the same.

9:57And, and I was like, what, you know, that, that is something that like absolutely is something. And, um, then we just kind of started working backwards from there. Um, with Lionel, like building out this world of like her family and then this idea of like spending a day with a child really came to the forefront

10:18Rebecca:when it came to writing this episode or writing in general i guess where do you get inspiration from do you think back on past film or tv or where do you pull from everywhere i think a bit you know and and it's like real life and imaginary circumstances um all of it i think definitely the show itself was like a big pull and things that my dog. Oh, yay, a dog cameo. Yeah, he's my PR. He's like, don't answer that question. Don't answer that question. We don't get any inspiration at all. Next question. Gromit. Gromit, gromit. Thank you. But, yeah, I think kind of from everywhere, but I think obviously the show and in a funny way it's like getting to do this episode as somebody who primarily writes on it and is like fortunate enough to say the words it did kind of feel like a fun exercise and like the love letter in a way so I think the show was the biggest inspiration but we also I think I've mentioned this somewhere like the Atlanta barbershop episode was a big one for us that's just like one of my favorite episodes of my favorite show

11:35Rebecca:more of my conversation with iowa debris after a quick break i may not hold a diamond but i do hold a few opinions about bravo i'm sarah galley certified bravoholic and host of andy's girls the only bravo podcast that takes housewives as seriously as they take themselves recorded straight from my closet office or as i lovingly refer to it, The Clothis. This show offers a psychological deep dive into the drama on and off screen, not to recap per se, but to understand what's really going on. Think of it as C-SPAN meets Ayanla Fix My Life, a little stream of consciousness, a little emotional autopsy, and a whole lot of nuance.

12:20From housewives themselves to culture writers, comedians, and everyday Bravo-holics, I'm joined by rotating guests to explore the psychology behind Bravo's most fascinating personalities. Because when someone storms out of a reunion or rewrites their own history mid-season, we don't just ask what happened, we ask why. So if you're looking for something different than a recap and deeper than a soundbite, you're in the right place. New episodes of Andy's Girls drop every week, streaming from the Clawfist to wherever you get your podcasts. C 'est bon, c 'est bon.

13:09Rebecca:Welcome back to Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair. Here's more of my interview with double Emmy nominee and star of the bear, Ayo Adebri. so as you mentioned you know i know that you had a lot of writing experience that some people may not be aware of if they know you mostly as an actor big mouth dickinson what we do in the shadows were your plans originally to sort of take the path of writer and then acting kind of came secondary or what was sort of your initial plan uh yeah acting and i mean writing and stand-up i think i love acting but i think i chose to study writing because i never really envisioned myself as an actor.

13:48I think especially when you go to drama school, you just are like, there's a certain type of person who is an actor and they have a certain level of gravitas. And that's not me. Cool. I am not A or B. And there's something sometimes about acting. And I remember feeling a bit justified in it when I was writing, when you would watch tapes and you go, wow, the reason we're not picking this person. It's so arbitrary. It has nothing to do with talent or skill or the read. It's so arbitrary. And that like type of release was, especially for myself when I was younger, it was like way too anxiety inducing.

14:24And I loved the idea that like, as a writer with my mind, I had control, you know? And so I think that was like my main plan. If I was fortunate enough to, you know, do bit parts on comedy shows, I was more than happy with that. And then And that proceeded to not really be the case.

14:42Rebecca:Then it went in the complete opposite direction. Well, yeah. Well, yeah. So speaking of that, as your acting career has gotten so much busier, has it affected your time to write or your writing ambitions? I know you are working on stuff now, but you're able to find a balance. Yeah, I think I'm able to find a balance. My balance, I don't know if it's perfectly split or whatever, but I'm pretty happy with it. I don't think I feel any like pressure really like from external forces or from myself. Like, um, I think also it's like, it's my life and it's my career and I am building it for the end. So whatever sort of twists and turns it takes or however long, maybe it'll take me a really long time to direct again.

15:29I don't know. But like what matters is that when it's right, it's right. And that I'm happy with it. Um, because also there's like, you know, there's no problem saying anybody's gonna like anything that you know I do or that it's gonna make money or like whatever but it's like am I happy with like the work that I did while it was

15:45Rebecca:being done yeah what does writing give you creatively that's satisfying versus acting I like the puzzle solving of writing I like that there's always something that you can figure out and discover. I think with acting, it's a little more microscopic sometimes, you know, you're like figuring out one human being and like, you know, we're all people and there's universes inside of us, you know? And so when you're like occupying another person, but that person also has like, you know, shades of yourself and shades of people that you know, shades of people you don't know, whatever, it can get quite small.

16:28Like the small can feel very big. and so sometimes it's nice like I think to be able to hop around and think about multiple other characters and think of like how the mechanics of a scene are going to work or you know I don't know it's just like a different type of problem solving that can be fun

16:49Rebecca:I know it was announced that you're writing a movie for A24 based on Barney, the famous purple dinosaur who I grew up with and I've heard it It's sort of unexpected. What can you tell me about the goal of this story? The internet? Yeah, my famous credible source, the internet. No, I don't know. I mean, sorry, that wasn't changing. I hope that wasn't changing. That was me doing a joke. I'm terrified of my tone at all times. No, I can tell you that I'm having a fun time writing it, and I'm excited for people to see it when it comes out. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah, I'm just going to have to keep using the word unexpected, I guess.

17:30Rebecca:Yeah, Sid, amused. I know fans had a great time with sort of shipping Sid and Carm for a while, though I feel like this last season sort of showed sparks between Sid and Luca. How do you sort of view the passion around Sid's personal life that hasn't been explored that much yet? I mean, I think it's like the same thing I feel like we've been saying since one, but I don't know if people are starting to believe us now, which is I do think that like there's something about seeing people where they're really passionate or where they're excelling at something that can feel really passionate and sexy and exciting and charged.

18:10um so yeah it's like I don't know I it's a hard thing to um talk about because I also and I think we never get it right which like like whatever we say we say yes or we say I don't know if we say no you know like it's never right um because also I do think it's like I don't know my job is to do the thing like I do the thing and then like how you interpret it is how you interpret it but You can get mad at me if I'm like, that wasn't what I was intending to do. But like, I do think that their relationship is like professional. I think again, it's like, it can be charged, but I do think it's like professional.

18:50And I do think if anything were to happen, it would not be the show that we're making. And I also think it would be like, so crazy. That man is crazy. And that girl is a bad communicator. the restaurant would blow up in like three seconds if anything ever happened but what about Sid and Luca I feel like there's a lot of chemistry there completely forgetting that I yeah I don't know maybe they're just two Libras having a conversation who's to say I don't have the I don't know more of my conversation with Ayoa Debrey after this quick break

19:33Rebecca:Welcome back to Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair. Here's the rest of my conversation with double Emmy nominee and star of the bear, Ayo Adebri. What's your current feeling on the discourse about the bear being categorized as a comedy at the Emmys? My feeling is that that is a question that is honestly above my pay grade. That's a question for the studios. I'm so thrilled we get asked a lot about it as actors and they don't ask the producers to do it. So that's kind of my answer to that. Yeah, that's fair. Speaking of awards, though, I think you give really amazing acceptance speeches when you win things because they're very genuine and you're often funny.

20:15Rebecca:And you thanked your agent and manager's assistants during one and I thought it was a very cool thing to do. I still just think that that makes sense because they do more work for me sometimes than the people who take my checks. Just kidding. I love you guys. don't blacklist me yeah I used to assist that's a hard job yeah but what is sort of your approach to those acceptance reaches are you has it changed do you come in with more notes or do you still wing it I don't really want anything in a while so now I just kind of drink at the shows I just kind of chill out to be honest that's my yeah that's my my mood I just have a good time I do think like it was kind of an insane like what do you call it when like debut you know like when the girls are like debut it felt like a really crazy debut um and very like energy filled so it's been nice like I felt like I like started and I was like genuinely it is so nice to be nominated and then I was like wait what what's happening and so it really is it's actually kind of been cooler I'm like I hope this doesn't sound like cheesy or disgusting or whatever but like it really hasn't made me appreciate like being nominated and just being able to like be in the presence of people where I'm just like, you're so beyond talented.

21:35Like I, I love TV. I watch TV, like, and like, I don't know, it's so cool to just be like, my name is like alongside these people and people are looking at my performances or my directing work even now. And it's not promised at all. There's so much good work that happens literally every year. I mean, it's like, that's, you know, why people get also upset and frustrated where you feel like this performance that you've seen or this episode that you loved is like being snubbed because it's so excellent or this show that's not even on people's radars or whatever it's like I don't know I could name five off the top of my head right now um and so yeah having my name even in this conversation at all it's like really still nuts and and something I'm very grateful for yeah can you describe to me sort of you know

22:22Rebecca:after that, as you're saying, this first season, that was just this like crazy success and the show has continued to be successful. What sort of opportunities that brought your way, you know, in your own career, were there like unimaginative offers of like other chef roles coming in? Like, how did you navigate what to do once that had happened for you? I think still probably navigating. Still in the navigating phase. Yeah. I think it's funny, you know, like, because before the show, I just was like, pretty staunchly comedian. And so it was a lot of like comedic parts. And then after the show, I think it became like a big rush of like a lot of dramedy things.

23:02And so that was also a thing where I think I, as somebody who wasn't primarily an actor, I had to sort of think in a way that I wasn't used to thinking like a bit more strategically. And like, even if I loved this script or I think it's cool or whatever, like it doesn't make sense for me to be doing a certain type of character like a bunch of times in a row and also like i started thinking about how people were perceiving me which was very strange which i'm still not used to and i don't really necessarily enjoy or think is right but it's like you do have to think about those sorts of things in order to be able to do whatever it is that you want to do um and also being able to think long term as well like because there's things that looks like i know i want to do or i know i can do but i just like i'm not doing it yet but i just have to like you know have a bit patience.

23:49Rebecca:The long game. You have a super busy few months coming up with Luca Guadagnino's film, After the Hunt is coming out, James L. Brooks' film, Ellen McKay is coming out all through the rest of the year. What is it about those two roles that made you say yes? Yeah, I mean, the reason for the Luca role, I mean, it's like, and also with James, I mean, both. It's like, I get to work with these legendary directors who I love. The Elma Cray script is so fun and tender. And Luca's movie is such a different thing altogether. And really meaty and sticky and just cool in all these other different ways. And so they felt like two different kind of challenges.

24:38like um with James's script it was like inhabiting this certain type of character and speaking a certain type of language of like movies I've grown up with and love um like that's like the type of movie that I love to watch when I'm just like doing that thing so the idea of getting to be in one of those movies was like kind of a dream come true and then it was Louis I was like a different type of movie that I love to watch maybe not like when I'm sick but like um you know like getting to face that challenge and like feel so like I don't know set up and supported in the best way by him and by Julia and by Andrew and Michael and Chloe like that was also something where I was like I really want to go there with these people and um also kind of yeah like I I'm a bit of a nerd you know like I love a puzzle and I'm like I'm there's always that student in me where I'm like I love a challenge like I'm gonna go for the extra credit event um after the hunt's gonna premiere at

25:35Rebecca:Venice. I have not seen it yet, but I'm super excited. The trailer was really strong, but you're going to walk that glamorous carpet, sit down and like watch that movie with an audience. How do you do with that experience? It'll be nice because we're all together. I think I don't really like enjoy watching myself, but I'm not watching myself, you know, like I'm watching this like beautiful movie that I was so fortunate to just be a part of with our cast and with our director and I think some crew are going to come out, which is like really exciting. And so, yeah, I'm like excited to be there and, um, put my neuroses down for a few hours.

26:13Rebecca:And the bear has been renewed for a fifth season. Where are you guys in that process? I am not entirely sure. Um, I just know I'm coming back. Um, but I think they're figuring out, um, writing and scheduling. Do you see you haven't seen any scripts or anything yet? No, it's August right now. Yeah, yeah.