The Best and Worst Awards Campaigns, According to Little Gold Men

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1:33Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. John, how have you been post-Oscars? I've been good. I'm well-rested. Saturday night, I got to attend this exclusive soiree that Ryan Murphy hosted for the cast, and crew of Love Story at the Chateau. If you're wondering if they're as glamorous in real life as they are on the show, the answer is yes. They're also all very tall. And it was really, really nice. Everyone is just so like in shock and awe of the show's meteoric rise and success. And then also this weekend, we had our first sort of blockbuster of the year with Project Hail Mary.

2:28Yeah, a huge success story. I feel like great timing. I think we needed one. It's March. It's nice to have that. This is the Ryan Gosling starring sci-fi film from Lord and Miller that I think had a lot of buzz leading into it. I feel like Ryan Gosling was really out there trying to promote the heck out of this movie. And it seems to have worked. It got$80.5 million in its box office debut this weekend. and it's the biggest opening ever for Amazon MGM. So big win for them as well. Yeah, well, a couple of things. I have to eat my words. I've always been pretty tough on Amazon and MGM about their theatrical prospects.

3:10They proved me wrong. But I do think that there is a feeling of sequel fatigue in the industry or in the film-going community. And it's just cool to see this movie open so big and have it be, you know, an original concept. It's much harder to market that. And so props for Amazon, MGM, and Ryan Gosling for getting it there. Yeah, I think the book it's based on was written by Andy Weir, who's the author that wrote The Martian, which I feel like these two obviously have a lot in common with, you know, a movie star, a sci-fi film. that's funny and feels, as you're saying, like new and fresh and how wonderful to have it work.

3:55I feel like that's really exciting for everyone. Rebecca, do you want to talk? You did the first, I think, first look of next season. I mean, I can't even believe it. But you did a first look on the new Martin McDonough movie, which you have seen. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? Yeah, the movie's called Wild Horse Nine And it is, I think, yeah, the first look at a movie that's going to be an Oscar contender. It doesn't come out until November. But they did release a trailer after my first look came out. And this movie is about two CIA agents in the 70s in Chile. So it stars John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell as those agents.

4:40And they go to this place called Easter Island, which is like this really mystical place with these giant ancient stone carved heads all over the island. And I don't want to spoil anything else about it, but basically John Malkovich's character is kind of looking back on his life and the things he's done as a CIA agent in the past. And it's just a killer script, amazing dialogue, such rich characters and the kind of John Malkovich performance I feel like we've all kind of been waiting for in like a really meaty lead role. And I think it's going to really wow people when it does come out. So let's get excited.

5:18Next Oscar season. Here we come. A John Malkovich lead actor campaign. That'll be something to see. He's never won an Oscar, which I kind of forgot. You know, he's just kind of one of those people you would think has won one, but no, but he's not. And then lastly, speaking of Oscars on this Oscars podcast, the ratings came in for the Oscars. Ratings were down. There were 17.86 million viewers, which is down 9 % from last year, which I was a little surprised by given the fact that there were a lot of big films this year in contention. I was surprised. Yeah. I thought between the level of movie stars they had there, the competitiveness of the races, and honestly, K-pop Demon Hunters performing, I thought they had a lot going for it.

6:06I think most people thought it was going to be at least equal to last year, if not up. So 9 % is kind of a bummer. I think we've accepted the truth that award shows will continue to go down in ratings. And yeah, the move to YouTube seems smarter and smarter every day. So they have two more years with ABC and then they'll move to YouTube. And so, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if the ratings continue to trickle down at that point. But I think, like you're saying, the show, I mean, I know we're in the Oscar bubble, but I felt pretty relevant. And, you know, I know we had a lot of readers coming to Vanity Fair to read about the show and the parties.

6:43And this year felt like people tuned in, whether that was through social media or watching the broadcast. So I think in the end, it will seem a success. Yeah, I think that actually the biggest thing was that it was too late in the season. And I think, I don't know, I have no insider knowledge, I think they're going to move it up closer to the beginning of March, end of February. There was a little bit too much stuff leading into it that it felt like the sales were kind of down by the time the Oscars rolled around. So we'll see. So today we're going to be doing a little bit of an Oscar campaign post-mortem.

7:26Who ran the great campaigns, whose campaigns flopped, and how we see the landscape of award season shaping up for next year. But we can't do it alone, so here to help us break it all down is our best friend, drumroll please, Hillary Busez. Could you hear my drumroll? We could hear it, yes. Okay. All right, so today we're going to get into some superlatives in a second. But first, I think we need to talk about the one campaign that was the talk of the town by the end of this Oscar season. We got to talk about Timothee Chalamet's best actor campaign for Marty Supreme. Where do we want to start with this?

8:05Lynn Ramsey's. We need to talk about Timothee. Yeah. Dreams dash. Dreams deferred. I know. Don't dream so big. This, yeah, dream much smaller. That's actually kind of the message of Marty Supreme. Yes, I know. So appropriate, honestly, that it would end this way. Okay, well, let's take us through the timeline of Timothy. So he was born. No, I'm kidding. That's a long episode. On the desert planet of Varakis. Yeah, let's take us through the timeline of Timothy's Marty Supreme Oscar campaign. It starts with the movie opening on Christmas Day and it being a success. I think that there was a lot riding on that.

8:49He was doing a lot of out-of-the-box things to open the movie, most notably standing on top of the sphere, with the sphere being decorated as an orange ping-pong ball. I mean, it was out there. So he opens the movie. Then he wins the Critics' Choice Award. He then wins the Golden Globe. And I think what's notable is that he wins the Golden Globe against Leonardo DiCaprio, who is considered one of his main competitors. and it's really looking like, okay, he might have this more in the bag than people thought. Because I think everyone knew that it was going to be a competitive category this year and it was an incredibly competitive category even getting nominated.

9:35And then things fall apart, right? Yeah, I think we started out the season really thinking it was him versus Leo. And so those early wins made us see, okay, Timothy seems to be coming out ahead here when we thought it was sort of this two-man race. And then, you know, I also believed he had a lot of momentum because of last year, because he was close to maybe winning last year. Yeah, so last year it was basically Best Actor was a two-man race, it seemed, between Timothee Chalamet and Adrienne Brody, which is a similar matchup of, you know, new star versus old, like, previous Best Actor winner, like somebody whom he may have modeled his career upon, like somebody representing the old guard versus him being like this upstart.

10:20And yeah, last year, Timothee Chalamet won the Actor Award, but Adrienne Brody won Best Actor at the Oscars. Yeah. And so once the movie was a success, it did feel like he was maybe trying to tone it down a little bit to be more of a traditional awards person. He wore sort of more traditional outfits to the awards events. Like it felt like, okay, maybe he is going to do this the more normal way. For about two weeks. For about two weeks. And then, like, when do you think the tides really shifted? So I think it was a couple of things. I think what they didn't count for in his awards campaign is that he had to open the movie internationally after he opened it domestically.

11:06And so he started to do the wacky stuff again. And that's when I think things start shifting. And then, of course, we have the ballet comment, which is the implosion. But that happened so late. I mean. That didn't affect voting. Right. I mean, it was technically the last day of voting that it bubbled up, but it didn't explode until after voting. I agree with you. I don't think it affected voting, but it sure as hell affected what people were expecting come Oscar night. You could feel at the Actors' Awards, the tides had turned. Well, I do want to make one point, though, which is that so Michael B.

11:50Jordan wins at the Actor Awards over Chalamet. And like certainly tides had shifted by then. But I do think that in our commentary about Best Actor this year, you know, a lot of people, us included, frame it as this was Chalamet's to lose, not like Michael B. Jordan won this award, which feels a little unfair because, you know, it wasn't like a response to a vacuum that Michael B. Jordan won. Like people voted for him. People liked his performance more and he earned it. Like, I just feel like that kind of gets lost in, like, the endless parsing of Chalamet and his campaign, which, I don't know, just like it feels like it's underselling the achievement of, like, Michael B.

12:27Jordan winning. It's true because Michael B. Jordan had this incredible momentum probably since BAFTA when he and Delray dealt with that racist comment, like, so gracefully. And I think it just woke people up to like here is sort of the opposite of Timothee Chalamet. And somebody who had been snubbed three times before. Like Chalamet had two previous Best Actor nominations. But Michael B. Jordan got snubbed for Fruitvale Station, which like I had to look back and remind myself that he wasn't nominated for that movie, which is wild. Like he's so good in that movie. He got snubbed for Creed. He got snubbed for Black Panther.

13:04Like all things that he could have been nominated for and wasn't. So I don't know. I think that, like, Chalamet aside, this is also like he won this because I think maybe the industry realized to some degree they had been taking him for granted all this time. A hundred percent. I think they really realized it. And it's exactly that. You look back on his career and you're like, this guy has been delivering movie star performances, huge blockbusters, and then something like Fruitvale where it is a very nuanced, like, dramatic performance. and he's really smart with the way he presents himself, the story he tells, like he doesn't misstep, you know?

13:40So I think it's the trajectory of, his trajectory was going up at the same time as Chalamet's was going down. It's not like everyone just settled on Michael B. Jordan because they didn't like Chalamet. So I think it's a really good point to bring up. I also wonder, I don't think it affected, but we should note that there was also that story about the Safdie brothers and that incident that allegedly happened on an earlier film. We have spoken about how that wouldn't affect Chalamet, but I think it did. It just sort of colored all of this ahead of all of this happening. It could have made it more difficult to vote for a safety movie, I guess, in light of that.

14:14Right. So there were like two scandals going on. But I also think that Chalamet losing to some degree shows progress because we don't usually punish a man for wanting things too much. Like there's an Anne Hathaway-esque arc to it, although she won. Like the real search happened after she won. Yeah, I mean, I feel like they do punish Bradley Cooper because he wanted it. That's true. When it comes to the Oscar, everyone is punished if you want it. That's why all these actors have pretend they don't want it while they're doing this, which must be exhausting. And you're not punished for not wanting it like Sean Penn who couldn't even show up.

14:50They punish young male movie stars. That's been a narrative forever. Sure, and Leo himself was, yes, the victim of that. Leo is the center of it. Gosling has been at the center of it. And now I think Timothy will, that will be in his narrative for the rest of his Oscar career, of which he will have one. He will be nominated again. He will probably lose again. Do you think that he doesn't win until he's like 45 and like climbs inside a bear? I mean, I think it would help if he climbed inside a bear. I think that they love it to be super physical. I think he is going to have a very deep and complex relationship with the Oscars, much like Leo has had and much like a lot of young actors have had.

15:49And I don't know, the Chalamet stuff also just as a public, we really care about him. and we really scrutinize everything he does. And just, I don't know. I don't know if anybody's actions can kind of hold up to that. I feel there was a Times op-ed from before the Oscars that was like everybody fell in love with Timothee Chalamet when he was playing a soft boy. And then he kind of gradually revealed himself to be more of a bro. He likes sports. He's kind of brash. He's more opinionated. He does these artistic movies, but he's also got like the heart of like a macho guy. and that is not what we expected from him.

16:24And so therefore, like, we've kind of been punishing him for it, which doesn't really feel fair. I mean, people aren't the same at 30 as they were at 16. And I don't know, expecting no growth just says more about us, I think, than it does about him. Yeah, so, I mean, he'll be back in the conversation with the third Dune movie, which is coming out in December, but that hasn't really been an acting-nominated movie. So I think he'll probably, you know, take a little bit more of a backseat And then we'll see from there. I know he's attached to this James Mangold movie, which could be an Oscar thing.

16:58But we'll see how he does with it, I guess. He'll be fine. He'll be fine. He's definitely going to be fine. He's going to be just okay. All right. We're going to take a quick break. When we get back, we'll talk about some of the best and worst awards campaigns this season. Don't go away.

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19:17Welcome back to Little Gold Men. All right, let's get into our Little Gold Men superlatives. I think we should start with some campaigns that we did think went really well. Who do you guys think ran the best campaign of the season? Jacob Elordi for Frankenstein, I think ran the best campaign and also maybe benefited the most from campaigning this season. He went into the supporting actor race. It was very crowded. I quite frankly didn't think that he would get in there because of the Academy's relationship to young hot stars in general. And even though he was in the makeup chair for something like 400 hours.

20:01I didn't think that the Academy would recognize all of that work. He did such a good job with messaging in terms of the work that he put in for the movie, the fact that he was cast last minute into the movie and had to do all that prep in a really truncated amount of time. And then overall, his demeanor was so humbling and he was so excited to be around these other directors. You really got a sense that he was an actual film nerd. He had always played that up before, but to be honest, I was suspicious if that was real. After this season, it was very obvious that it was real. I just think this really helped benefit his career, and I think he just did a wonderful job, and I think Netflix did a wonderful job supporting him.

20:56Yeah, I agree. I mean, I did an interview with him, which I think is exactly what you're speaking to. He has very smart answers about the films he's setting out to make and the type of filmmakers he wants to work with. And you see the respect he has for a lot of the greats in those rooms. So even though he didn't win, you know, an Oscar, I think you're right. He has recalibrated his career in a really notable way. I'll never forget him telling you that he would rather, like, kiss in the sun. than we to make something with AI. Yeah, yeah. What a dreamy answer. I know. It was so good. All right, Hilary, you want to go?

21:35Sure. I'm going to nominate Kate Hudson. I don't remember another year where I heard so many people say this movie is not it, but Kate Hudson is so good in it. I think that she just, between this and Knives Out a few years ago and Running Point on Netflix, I think that she's having kind of a mini career renaissance in a way that's just like very nice to see as somebody who's, you know, been following her career since the almost famous days. I think that, I don't know, she's representing Hollywood nepotism in a very appealing way and showing that she's kind of earned her position. And, yeah, just that she can turn in something that just convinces people, even if the rest of the material is like not really on her level.

22:19I think that that's a skill and it's nice to watch. And she's just reminded people, like, she's a movie star, like, classic movie star, which is how rare that really is. And I mean, we all kind of made fun of her for going to every single possible event this season, but it worked. Yeah. I think also Focus did a very smart and targeted campaign for her that worked. She's just so appealing. I mean. Yeah, you just kind of want to look at her and listen to her. Like, that's movie star energy. She's so likable. And so, and she's good in the movies. So she nabbed it. Okay, Rebecca. Rebecca, you're up last.

22:56So I'm picking Ryan Coogler because this is a man who does not like to be in the spotlight. He doesn't do a lot of interviews. I feel like he's one of those let the work speak for itself kind of people. But he really put himself out there this season in a very smart way. Like that video early on of him explaining different kinds of film and holding up the little film strips was like just perfect for anyone who's like a cinephile and just really showed the care he put into this movie. And like this being an original film, he had to put himself out there more and make it more personal. And he did.

23:33And I think he ran sort of a pitch-perfect campaign. And, you know, as sort of a sidebar, I want to include Autumn Duralt-Arkapa in this because she also did so many interviews, including one with me, and put herself out there in a really scary position because if she had lost, you know, it would have been very sad because everyone was sort of putting this pressure on her to be the first woman to win in the cinematography category. And I thought she also ran a very smart campaign because cinematographers don't often get the spotlight in the way she did. And I thought she did great with it. I also think his Amy Poehler Good Hang episode was fantastic and brought him to a different audience.

24:19And it was just a love fest between the two. Speaking of somebody who's been snubbed, he was snubbed, I think, pretty hard for Black Panther. He deserved an Oscar nomination for directing that movie. And this time around, they just were able to really position him the right way and broaden, I think, his fan base, which was already really big. I mean, he's one of the most successful directors out there, but he's always had a sort of difficulty getting the Academy on board with him. And this time around, they nailed it. Yeah. All right. Let's do the other side of the coin here. The biggest fumbles in campaigns, excluding Timothy, who we've already discussed.

25:06Who do you think, Hillary, you want to start? Sure. I'm going to put Begonia out there because it got all these nominations and couldn't get anything over the line. I mean, that's because of several things. I think the poor things is just in the very recent rear view that Yorgos Lanthimos and Emma Stone have made a lot of movies together in a pretty short period of time. And this kind of feels like more of the same in that vein. But the movie was really good and it was very timely. I think that it speaks to the moment in a similar way as, you know, Sinners or One Battle After Another. I think they could have probably done more with that.

25:40Yeah, I think Jesse Plemons not getting a nomination was also a really big bummer. I feel like I wonder if this movie had come out before Poor Things because I think you're right. There was a little bit of a burnout of this. I think it's a better movie than Poor Things. Oh, interesting. I mean, Poor Things to me is more the ambition of having to create those worlds and stuff was so incredible. Like, Begonia is a little more, I don't want to say reality set, but for most of it, you know, set in reality. It's closer to Earth, I guess. Most of the movie. So, yeah, I mean, when you think about it, I feel like, you know, which category would you want it to win in the end?

26:19Screenplay, I don't know. You're right. There's not a great answer. Actually, Hillary, I have the exact opposite about Begonia. I think it overperformed. Consider, okay. Considering, yeah. I mean, yes, Jesse Plemons didn't get a nomination. But like we said earlier, that was an insanely competitive category. I mean, a lot of people didn't get nominated in lead actor. But Begonia, Focus, you know, got a Best Picture nom. That was really on the bubble. Emma got in there for Actress. You're saying it's an honor to be nominated. Hillary, you were saying she's a little like a Meryl Streep now. Like, maybe if she's just in a movie, she's going to get nominated.

27:00It does feel that way, yeah. I think you're right. But I hear where you're coming from. I just totally disagree. I think overall, I'm fascinated about what happened to Jay Kelly. What's interesting is that wasn't one of my favorite films from Netflix this year. I liked House of Dynamite and Train Dreams the most. But a lot of people I spoke to really liked Jay Kelly. And I felt that Jay Kelly, it's like so Oscar-baity. It's like about Hollywood. It's got this sentimental ending. It's Noah Baumbach, who, you know, has a pretty good history with the Oscars. I mean, beloved Oscar winner George Clooney playing himself.