The Fall Film Festival Lineups Are Out. Will the Awards Follow?

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1:05Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV and awards lovers. I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. Today we're talking all about the Toronto and Venice Film Festival lineups, which were announced in full last week. Well, almost in full. There'll be some surprise editions, I think, but a lot of it's been released. And we're also going to ask whether these festivals still have the power to launch an awards campaign the way they used to. But first, we're going to cover a little news that's very important to Los Angeles. John, the Hollywood Cinerama Dome is finally going to reopen.

1:39What'd you think of the news? Well, it's not just the Dome. They're opening the Arclight Theaters as well, yeah. I've spent so much time in the bowels of the Arclight. I used to do a screening series there. I can tell you all the access codes for all the doors. I still have them memorized. The Arclight is the best theater in Los Angeles. Obviously, the Dome is iconic. So to have it reopen, I think, is really, really exciting, both for the industry and also movie lovers, because it is truly one of the best theaters in Los Angeles. And I hope that they don't do the Alamo thing with the food delivery.

2:26Like, I want them to sort of keep it the way it used to be. But I'll take what I can get. I know. That's the only concern people seem to have is, like, will the Alamos, like, phone ordering system be, you know, throughout the theaters? I think it would be okay if the dome is preserved the way it is and maybe the ordering is in the other parts of the arc. I don't know. I saw a report there's going to be, like, karaoke rooms. I think it's going to be, in theory, brought to life as sort of a glitzier entertainment. Entertainment. Yeah. The place has been closed since 2020. For this to be reopened, I think, is what's important.

3:05And I also feel very excited about it. Yeah. The other big news, I think, of the week is another update on the Warner Brothers-Paramount merger. Paramount has announced that they are going to delay the merger as the antitrust lawsuit that was filed by 12 state attorneys general will move forward. So that means it will potentially not close until 2027, which is a lot longer timeline than we had anticipated, I think. Yeah, I think it actually means definitely it doesn't close until 2027 because they can't do the trial this year. Right. I refer to this now as our new it ends with us. Like, it seems never ending.

3:53You know, like people are going to start releasing dirty text messages. I don't know. Like somehow Taylor Swift will get involved in ways we can't even fathom. this is turning out to be quite a journey. But it is interesting, and it does go to show the power, I guess, of the states. And like we said last week, the sentiment is very, very strong. And Paramount believes very, very firmly that they will have their day in court and win. And I think that there is something kind of at least honest about that, like being like, yeah, we're going to argue our case in court and we're going to win it. And that'll be the period end of sentence to this question.

4:40So we shall see. But that was a twist I don't think we saw coming, right? Yeah, I don't know how to predict where it goes from here. David Elson sent a company-wide email that ended with, let's go, exclamation point. So I feel like he's still feeling really good about it. But I think it's getting harder and harder to predict what will happen next. But I think, you know, we'll be reporting on it every step of the way. So I guess we'll be checking in as it unfolds. And finally, we're gearing up for festival season. And we're going to prepare for another mailbag episode. So please send us in any questions you have about the festivals, their lineups, Oscar season, your hopes and dreams for the season.

5:25And we will try to answer them all. So send us an email at littlegoldmen at vf.com.

5:34All right, let's get into TIFF in Venice. Here to help us unpack this year's lineups is none other than Vanity Fair features editor, Hilary Bucis. Hi, Hilary. It's me again. Can't get rid of me. She's back. Before we talk about the films, let's talk about the festivals. Who wants to volunteer to give us the lay of the land when it comes to the festivals? Each festival, I think, means something a little bit different. So where do Venice and TIFF fit in the circuit? I'll go. You volunteer as tribute? Yes, I volunteer as tribute. Okay, I'm going to start with Sundance. Sundance kicks off the year in January.

6:11As everyone knows, it's snowy. We're in Park City, but we're not in Park City anymore. We're in the American West in the snow. It's independent film. It's discovering new filmmakers, and it's Uggs. That's how I would say it in three words. Then we were skipping Berlin. And can you say why we're skipping Berlin? I'll say Berlin is much more of a market. Yeah. They don't really debut the awards films. It's a lot of international features for sale. I feel like this is helpful context. People may not understand why Berlin doesn't totally fit in the same categories as some of these other festivals.

6:48But sometimes it does. And actually, Berlin is its own complicated thing. So then we're going to May and Cannes, which showcases auteurs both young and old. So you're discovering the new auteur and you're solidifying the existing auteurs in cinema. It has obviously a very heavy focus on foreign language film. And then it has the glamour, the fashion, the red carpet, staircase, all of that stuff. And it also has standing ovations, which has become increasingly important and we'll talk about. Then we go to the fall festivals, starting with Telluride, which is over Labor Day weekend. It's summer camp for filmmakers and the people that love them.

7:41It's all over one weekend. It's very small. It's contained. It's industry only. Well, it's industry only in that the only way you could afford to really go and buy a ticket is if you're within the industry. Filmmakers love it. And it is a huge word of mouth festival. There's no competition track. Like there's no award that's given at the end of the festival. And the vibe is very much like we're all in it together. Venice is huge premieres, huge glamour. It has solidified, you know, the standing ovation mania that started in Cannes and I think has extended over into Venice. And we'll talk about this year, but previously it was premiering some really big studio films going into the fall season.

8:34Then there's Toronto. I call it the state school of the fall festivals. and I don't mean it in, I mean, I know it sounds a little snarky, but I don't mean it in that way. It's populist. It has some exclusive premieres, but the premieres lean a little bit more commercial. It has an audience award at the end of the festival, but doesn't have a jury award. That audience award has been a precursor for the Academy Awards since forever. And it's easy to attend. Everyone's very nice. Everyone loves Canadians. It doesn't have the glamour that Venice or Cannes has, but it does have a very solid lineup, and we're going to talk a lot about Toronto, I think, coming up.

9:23Then there's New York Film Festival and London Film Festival that pretty much overlap one another at the end of September into early October. I think those festivals mix some glamour, some premieres, but really what they are is they're like a recap of the year heading into awards season. And they're in markets where there are a lot of influential casemakers, which is, you know, New York and London, two of the biggest cities in the world. All right. So now that we have the lay of the land, I think we should do a little festival gauntlet and everyone pick which one they think is the most important to award season.

10:04Hilary, as our guest, I'm going to have you kick things up. That's great because I can pick the most obvious answer. And that obvious answer, I would say, is Venice. We have seen a lot of big premieres there. Whether or not they have gone on to really rule the Academy Awards is up in the air. But the movies that premiere there are big and make a big splash. I'm thinking of like the Lady Gaga, Bradley Cooper, A Star is Born. I'm thinking about Todd Phillips as the Joker, which was a huge Venice bow that then set off, you know, months and months of discourse. It's got glamour. It's got boats. It's got celebrities on boats.

10:39It really doesn't get more fashionable, glamorous than that. And generally speaking, yeah, the movies are also big, serious awards contenders. I think that historically it's had a better track record at the Academy Awards than most other festivals. That said, last year was kind of an outlier, and I guess we'll kind of get to that later. But yeah, I'm choosing Venice. My thing with Venice is if your film works, it really works for you. Like, the attention you can get sort of around the world, in the industry, if your film plays well there, is very valuable. It's helpful also that it begins before Telluride.

11:19Yeah, it's the first one. It has the most anticipation. We all wait for the lineup. But I think there's more of a risk of your film getting lost in the shuffle there because there are so many high-profile premieres. And so it's gotten pretty crowded over the last few years. And I think we really saw that last year where a lot of films, it was just like a blip. Either the film didn't work or it just didn't get the attention it needed. I think of Jay Kelly a lot because I think that is a film that should have worked for award season. And I feel like that is sort of the beginning of its downfall is a bunch of films got sort of lost last year.

11:53So I think that is the reason I didn't pick it. Well, or they were very hyped and then kind of fell flat with audiences there. Like in After the Hunt, the Luca Guadagnino movie, which I think a lot of people expected to be a very big awardsy moment and just did not have legs. Well, after The Hunt had a lukewarm reception in Venice, and I think is a result of why this year's Venice maybe is a slightly softer lineup. But I go back to like The Smashing Machine and the 14-minute standing ovation with The Rock crying, even Testament of Anne Lee, which had a very long standing O and also had crying.

12:34And then those movies get over to the States. They don't perform at the box office. And they don't resonate with audiences pretty much universally. And so part of the other problem is you can have a cold premiere at Venice. But also if you have a big premiere, it might be the ultimate festival bubble. and it's incredibly expensive to send your movie there. And so I think they have to recalibrate a little because of those issues. And that's why this feels like kind of a rebuilding year, yeah. Yes. So I agree with you, Hillary, to a certain extent, but there's a reason why I didn't pick it as well.

13:22Well, what did you pick, John? I picked Cannes. Big surprise. The reason why is Cannes is a lineup that is not predicated on what films are coming out in the next five months, which basically the fall film festivals are. But Cannes, like, if you look at it, Parasite came from Cannes. Enora came from Cannes. So you have two Best Picture winners in the last. No, Parasite came from Iceberg Lass. which by the way I ate some this weekend I'm very scared but I just think that the level of programming between getting the established tours and then finding newer tours like Justine Triott for Anatomy of a Fall I think the Academy voter pays attention to the Cannes lineup and it pays attention to those awards like they will watch a movie that gets Best Director in Cannes, obviously the Palm, the Actor Awards, they really pay attention, it seems.

14:28And having a successful Cannes premiere for a smaller movie that has a filmmaker that's not as well known internationally, but maybe is known in their country, is so powerful and really can propel you to the very end of awards season. I think the trajectory of Cannes' importance in the awards race, it coincides very clearly with the opening up of the voter body that's now so much more international. And so that, to me, makes a lot of sense why its importance has increased. I think the problem is we're coming off a down year. This past Cannes was not as high profile as the previous ones. I mean, Fjord won the Palm and is going to be an awards contender.

15:16But I think when you look back at like Anora or Parasite, I mean, the Palm winner has only become the Best Picture winner four times in the history of that festival. So it's still sort of rare for that to happen. But twice in the past few years. Right. So I'm agreeing with you. Yeah. John's agreeing with himself. He's agreeing with himself. But I'm also agreeing with your incredible analysis that agrees with me. I think the problem with Cannes that we might be seeing is that, sort of like Venice, it's become such a popular place for these international premieres that are almost always neon films that it's going to get real crowded in the awards race.

16:00and I'm very curious how Neon handles that this year because they have like a dozen films that went to Cannes and now are going to be in the race. And I think they had a little bit of that last year, juggling, you know, Surratt and Sentimental Value. And The Secret Agent. And The Secret Agent. So that's a sort of new problem they have and I don't know how that's going to play out. And the movie that won Best Picture didn't go to any festivals at all, which is something that I think we'll be talking about later. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we'll get into it. All right, Rebecca, you're up. All right. I think maybe you guys can guess, but I'm picking Telluride, my favorite festival that I attend.

16:36Yeah, you love Telluride. I feel like people should know that about you if they don't already. Well, the thing with Telluride, it's a little cultish. Like before I went, people were always telling me like, it's the best. I love it so much. And I was like, all right, you guys. And then I went and it's just like, there's a Kool-Aid situation where you experience it and you can't stop talking about it. So it's a great festival environment, but that's not why I'm picking it. I'm picking it because I think it's the festival that can most help a film that doesn't seem like an obvious awards contender, that needs to succeed at a fall festival more than anything else.

17:12Because that lineup is so curated that everyone knows those films are going to be great. Yes, they've had their hiccups every once in a while, but overall, 90 % of that lineup is a strong film. And I mean, that credit goes to Julie Hunsinger, who runs the festival, but I think it's become known for its quality. And so when a film works there, the word of mouth is incredibly strong. Like you look at Nickel Boys, like that film, I don't know if it would have been an awards contender without a start at Telluride and that word of mouth that kept it in the race, you know, throughout the season. And then, you know, they may not be the winners, but these are films that I don't even think would get nominated if they didn't have that thing.

17:56They're sort of like the underdog films. You know, Women Talking was a Telluride premiere and ended up winning a screenplay Oscar for Sarah Pauly. The Holdovers had a really strong premiere there. Oh, yeah. There's just moments where it's the right film at that festival, I think, exponentially helps that film in the race. They had a really great run in the mid-20-teens, too. Just looking at this list, they had, you know, 12 Years a Slave in 2014, Birdman in 2015, and Moonlight in 2017. And that is three Best Picture winners. Right. And Moonlight is a film, you know, like who knows what would have happened to that film if it didn't have a strong start.

18:33So I think if it works at Telluride and it's a little film, it just makes it a big film, basically, on birth. Yes. and also news maybe to our listeners, but we are media partners with them this year. Yeah, we're going to have a real exciting telly ride. Yeah, we're in exciting news. We're going to have an exciting telly ride. And I've never been. This is the first time I'm going. I'm really excited to see all those movies in Toronto a week later. I do want to say that just before we go, there's two like ones that I want to just give slight shout outs to. I do think New York Film Festival has had sometimes a bumpy ride, But in the past couple of years, I've actually felt that they've really solidified what they are.

19:18And last year, they did have that surprise premiere of Marty Supreme, which is not nothing because that was a big movie at the end of the year. They got the big, you know, surprise premiere. and they do sort of curate like a best of that does sort of feel truly like, okay, these are the best films that have come out this year. Maybe they don't all have exclusive premieres. And then Toronto, Hamnet won the People's Choice Award last year. If you go back, I mean, the big one is Green Book winning People's Choice and then go into Best Picture, which people point out over and over and over and over again.

19:59in our community. But there's more, like American fiction, got the people's choice, and then it won screenplay. Like, it's not going to necessarily get a best picture at the Oscars, but it will get somewhere, yeah. And it was nominated. American fiction is an example of a movie that needed that. Yeah. Like you're saying, and even though Hamnet had a lot of prestige and, you know, had Spielberg as a producer and all of those things, it needed that sort of, like, push to the general audience because people are like, I don't know if I want to see it. It sounds so sad. But then it gets something like the People's Choice and it feels like, okay, I have to see it.

20:38And, you know, Hemnick got a ton of nominations. I know, you know, the wins I always think is, that's a sort of different thing, you know, and maybe harder to link directly back to festivals, except in my case when I'm linking it to Cannes, except for my argument. But I do think, like, nominations is, you know, it's an honor just to be nominated. And it's a big deal. All right. We're going to take a quick break. And when we get back, we're going to dive into the TIFF and Venice lineups. Stick around.

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23:27Welcome back to Little Gold Men. So last week, Tiff and Venice unveiled their lineups, and there is a lot to talk about. I guess let's start with Tiff. As Hillary mentioned, we have some celebrity-directed movies. And I do think we have some high-profile things in the lineup. Just to start off, Sean Hader, who directed Coda, which we all remember won Best Picture in 2021, or maybe some of us forgot that year completely. But she is back with her new film called Being Human. It's a drama based on a memoir of Judy Heumann, who was a disability rights advocate. So I think that'll be something, you know, everyone will be keeping a close eye on.

24:11What else stood out to you guys? I mean, I will say that I'm telling on myself as the kids maybe probably don't say anymore. But the movie that I am most interested in is Babies, which is directed by Lauren Miller-Rogan, who is married to Seth Rogen. It's a movie about two people who aren't sure if they want to have kids or not. They're played by Seth Rogen and Anna Kendrick. And I'm just like, man, we are all the same age. I am so curious about your feelings on this subject. Like, it feels pitched specifically to, like, the middle-aged white lady audience. And, like, that's who I am. So I'm going to own it.

24:45Now, Hilary, are you okay with the fact that you're lying to us? Because I know the movie that you're most excited for based on your Slack presence is I Play Rocky. Oh, my God. How could I forget? I am so excited for I Play Rocky directed by Peter Farrelly, speaking of Green Book. Oh, my God. I Play Rocky is a movie about Sylvester Stallone making Rocky. It stars an unknown named Anthony Ippolito, which is like Italian-American central casting I cannot get over. He was like bred in a lab to make this movie. In the trailer, he's doing this Stallone voice where he's like, I don't know. It's just I'm sure that it will be heartwarming.

25:24But I also see potential for for catastrophe. And I'm very curious about what that movie ends up looking like. I don't think it's catastrophe. People are not as cynical as me generally, especially in Canada. So I can see it going over very well. Well, there's a couple of things. One, it's a world premiere in Toronto. So, you know, it's not secretly premiering in Telluride before and it's not going to Venice. This movie might end up being a popular movie both at the box office and within the Academy in that it is so different from the big blockbusters this year. with The Odyssey, Project Hail Mary, and Dune 3, and it's not Fjord.

26:04Yes. You know, it's not a Cannes movie. It's not, did that Romanian man hit his child? Yeah, or did he or did he not? And what do you feel about personal liberty? Yes. But there is a place for just, like, feel-good populist entertainment, and Toronto is that place. And I Play Rocky, I think, is, like, Like, it's a parody of a Toronto movie in some ways. It's like, how can we still be making a biopic like this? I kind of don't understand. Right. Will it feel stale? Yeah. Maybe, but I don't know. I think it might have just enough oomph to it that it garners a sort of underdog story similar to what happened with Green Book.