The Not-Too-Messy Golden Globes Nominations

0:01Hey, Little Gold Men listeners, especially the ones across the pond. We're recording a Little Gold Men episode live in London on the evening of February 19th with the cast of Sentimental Value. We've got a select number of tickets to give out to our listeners. So if you'd like to join the fun, email us at littlegoldmen at vf.com. We hope to see you there.

0:31Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. I'm John Ross. And I'm Rebecca Ford. Rebecca, it has been a busy, busy weekend weekend. Has it been a weekend? It feels like it's just been nonstop. As listeners can probably tell from my voice, I'm exhausted. And my voice gave up, but I will try my best here. Well, I mean, there was so much that happened last week in terms of like awards. But then on Friday, the biggest story that Netflix is officially going to purchase Warner Brothers for an alleged$82 billion. It's a developing story in that there's all these rights and regulations that need to be approved before this happens.

1:24So today on the show, we're going to be talking about the awards implications of this proposed merger. Yeah, and we also are going to be talking about the Golden Globe nominations, which happened Monday morning. And then we'll get into what we think the Globe's voters got right, what they got wrong. And we're also going to talk about the new podcast category. And to help us out with all of this, we are joined by our colleague and friend, Vanity Fair staff writer Chris Murphy. Hi, Chris. Hi, it's so nice to be back and so nice to be a friend. What a day for you to join us. So much to get through.

1:59I think we should just dive right in and talk about this Netflix Warner Brothers acquisition. I spent a lot of time on Friday reporting about it, but the story is developing so fast that things have already happened. And I'm sure more will have happened by the time this podcast goes up. John, you want to lay out the hard facts on this one for us? Sure. I mean, Netflix was kind of like the dark horse buyer for Warner Brothers. It was between Paramount, Comcast, and Netflix. And then on Friday, they announced that they had won the bid with an$82.7 billion bid to buy Warner Brothers, the studio, the streaming platform, and HBO.

2:44but they don't want the network, so they don't want CNN, TNT, HGTV. And the town erupted upon hearing that news. Yeah, the amount of shock and sadness, I think, was really notable on Friday when I was talking to people. But even since then, things have happened. And on Sunday, Trump weighed in to say that this could be a, quote, problem. indicating that maybe the administration was not going to go for this deal. And then on Monday, Paramount Skydance put in what they call a hostile bid, which I love because it sounds so dramatic, which it is, offering$30 per share as opposed to the$27.75 that Netflix is offering, which I kind of expected to happen after talking to sources because we knew that Ellison was not happy that they did not win this bid and that there was going to be more action to come.

3:45And I think that's sort of the bottom line here is this is very early days. Even if this deal went as smoothly as possible, it would take quite a long time for all the approvals and everything to get through. So we're going to be talking about this story for a long time. Yeah, I mean, it feels like we're in a season of succession. I think the general consensus about the Netflix bid is that there's major fears about what happens with theatrical and sort of what will happen in the business overall. Do you want to talk a little bit about the story that you and Joy Press wrote? Yeah, I mean, you've hit it on the head.

4:24People are scared that for now Netflix is saying, yes, we will release Warner Brothers movies as planned into theaters. But the language that Ted Sarandos used on a call with Wall Street was very vague about what that means for the future. So sure, we'll see the movies planned for the next two to three years, probably hitting theaters. But will those windows shrink after that? Will it become two weeks in theaters versus 30 to 45 days? And that would be obviously a real loss for the fight to keep movies theatrical. So between that and what their plans are for HBO, a lot of people just had a lot of questions.

5:04And we don't have answers to a lot of that because so much of it is pretty vague right now. And Chris, I mean, this is all anyone's talking about in Los Angeles, but like what's going on in New York City? Are people weighing in on this as well? Oh, yeah. As the New York correspondent, I think the vibe is pretty bleak, I would say. It feels like the growth of Netflix and, you know, it's too big to fail vibe eating up Warner Brothers. it's really scary for people who love to go to the movie theater and love to go to the cinema. I've seen so many tweets and talked to so many people who are lamenting the end of the movie going theatrical experience, which hopefully that's not true.

5:45As Rebecca said, it's a developing story, but it doesn't look good. Yeah, I think for our sake, because I firmly believe we're going to be talking about this story for a long time and the dramatic events will continue to happen. I think what we could focus on is what this might mean for award season, because John is saying, this story is at the top of everyone's mind and we're about to enter voting time and you wonder, will that affect Netflix films in contention? Will that affect Warner Brothers films in contention? So I think that's a question we can kind of maybe answer if we can't answer the rest of these questions.

6:18Yeah, I think it's hard to say, but the saying is all you have is your vote in terms of like how you can affect change. Academy voters are all industry people. They're working. And so the question is, do they take this to the ballot in a way and ding Netflix films because they want to prove a point? And I think we're going to have to keep our ear to the ground. It's very early. But I think in the next couple of weeks, we're going to start to hear from them if that's the case. Yeah, it's interesting that you say that because all of the guilds, WGA, DJ, PGA, have all put out statements against this move.

7:05It seems like a lot of the artists and the filmmakers and not the executives are really against Netflix buying Warner Brothers. So I do think it could definitely affect the Oscars and how people vote. That's a great point, Chris. The guilds releasing official statements saying how nervous they are about this. I mean, they're representing their members and their members are the voters. So for them to have so quickly released a statement, I think, shows just how much their membership body is telling them how nervous they are about this. I kind of wondered, and this is sort of a strange theory, if people who do feel sad that perhaps theatrical distribution will change for Warner Brothers moving forward will vote for the Warner Brothers films.

7:57It's like this is our last year of a huge success story for Warner Brothers theatrical release, even though like logically we know there will be more based on how long this would probably take. but like do you vote for Sinners or one battle after another because you're saying with your vote I believe in Warner Brothers theatrical you know what I mean? Yeah well it totally helps that like they are both excellent and were already sort of you know front runners and one battle after another being like the front runner and it's interesting too that this news came right after aren't they both going into IMAX?

8:32They're going back into theaters so I was seeing people after the news broke being like wow like the end of cinema at least we get a double feature of One Battle and Sinners. So I definitely think, if anything, rather than ding Netflix, I would say this probably boosts Warner Brothers more, I would say. I also think it boosts Neon. I think it boosts Neon and A24. These are indie theatrical distributors. And I think people are going to rally around those types of films even more than they already have done. So yeah, it's going to be an interesting time. I don't think, even though Warner Brothers is the one that's up for sale and David Zaslav is the one who accepted this offer, I don't think that voters are going to blame Warner Brothers.

9:25It's the sort of Netflix, like, Big Bad Wolf, Darth Vader mothership-ish element that they have within the industry that is more problematic. Yeah, but I also think people are like, they're not going to be like, oh, I'm not going to vote for Joel Edgerton because of the Netflix merger. It's not any of the artists' fault. It's not Noah Baumbach's fault who directed Jay Kelly. It's not Jacob Elordi's for Frankenstein. These are all Netflix movies. So I do think, I would hope that voters are able to separate their animus for Netflix from like the performers and the actors and the directors and the writers and whatnot.

10:06However, when we're talking about the Best Picture 10, I definitely would maybe be like shaving off a Netflix movie potentially. I know that's a little bit of a contradictory statement, but I think when we're talking about the artists, I think it's easier to separate the merger from the art rather than for big Best Picture. I totally agree. I think the acting races and directing are probably not going to be affected by this. But picture, you know, there are a few Netflix films that are kind of on the bubble. You look at Jake Kelly, like, I think that could be on there. I mean, it would feel very tragic if something like Frankenstein got affected by this because Guillermo and Jacob Elordi, they've all been pretty out there.

10:42Like, you should see this movie in a theater if you can. Like, they're pro theaters. They just, you know, went with Netflix because that studio would give Guillermo what he needed to make that movie. But I do see what you're saying. Like, there's so many people in the industry who probably feel like they have no power with this huge change that's about to come. Like, here's a little power they have with their vote. What I do think is going to happen and what the talent needs to prepare for is every single interview they do is going to ask them what they think about this. I know. Good luck to them, man.

11:14But you're so right, Chris. Like, Train Dreams is such the epitome of, like, this is a real indie. So it's like, what? We're going to, like, punish Clint Bentley's small film about the American dream in the 1900s because Ted Sarandos wants to buy Warner Brothers to take it. It's so complicated. It's such a catch-22, you know, but there's anger in the community and when there's that, sometimes we don't know how that'll manifest. I do think if Paramount had won this bid, people would still be pissed. Like no matter who, even if Comcast won, which was a long shot in the first place, but it didn't really matter who would win because it means inevitably fewer movies being made and one less buyer in the market.

12:07And this is an industry that's already really suffering when it comes to getting movies made and selling them. but it feels like the anger is stronger because it is Netflix and they've been so anti-theatrical release for their entire existence that, I don't know. John, do you think people would have been as mad if it were Alison? Yes, because Alison would have bought CNN, right? And then we would have been dealing with the whole political element. Okay, so I'm just gonna, you know, defend Netflix a little for a second and then we're gonna get into the meat and potatoes of this episode. Netflix is a content-first company.

12:47It's not like Amazon, which is selling you toothpaste and movies. Like, Netflix's whole business model is content, content, content. So I do believe their intention won't be to stop making Warner Brothers content. That's not really what they do. What they want us to do is watch their platform every single second of the day, every single minute of the day. You know, I think that the fear about like less content being made maybe is not necessarily true. It's just about how that content will be distributed. And consumed. And consumed. And then there's the whole HBO of it all, which is like, you know, that's a Pandora's box.

13:36That's a whole nother episode. Yeah, like that's like four years of talking.

13:43We're going to take a quick break. When we get back, the Golden Globes nominations. Stick with us.

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15:28Welcome back to Little Gold Men. Chris, Rebecca, we were up very early this morning. Not for Chris. Well, not for Chris. It's sort of a normal day for me, but... Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry. New York correspondent vibes. Yeah, Rebecca and I were up at 5 o 'clock a.m. this morning. Are we ready to talk about these Golden Globe nominations? What are your first impressions? Pretty good year. They did a pretty good job. I think for an awards body that sort of famously was more star-focused than substance, more style than substance, let's say, in the past, I do think there are a lot of great nominees and a lot that will end up making it in the conversation of the Oscars.

16:10Rebecca, what did you think? I agree. I was like prepared for a lot of the what now? And I didn't have many of those moments this morning. I feel like there's a nice variety. I think the most striking thing to me was the representation of international features in categories outside of non-English language in a way that I haven't seen before, which then led to Neon being the top distributor with had the most films nominated, which is unheard of. It's always like Netflix or Warner. And for Neon to really have that huge win, I think, is really, really notable and reflects how big the international films are this year in the race.

16:54Which mirrors what is going on in the Academy. Yeah. Which is interesting. So it's like the Golden Globes have expanded and they have a more international voting body. You know, they went from 86 voters to something like over 300. And the Academy has done the same. And to see them both mirror each other, I think, bodes very well for the relevancy of the Golden Globes. Because they're mirroring what we're seeing at the Oscars. Snubs and surprises. I do think Wicked, for good, missing in musical comedy is pretty shocking. Obviously, the first film was nominated in that category. and Cynthia Erivo did miss with Critics' Choice, which was a big surprise.

17:42So we're seeing some little hiccups here, which make me worried for the film when it comes to the Oscars. Yeah, I mean, the nominees for that category, I think are pretty good. I mean, Anne Lee, which is the only other musical, also wasn't nominated. So it's like best motion picture, musical or comedy, not musical. you know what I mean and that's always been I think that's kind of always been a problem with this category it's like they don't really weight the musical enough because like if you are a musical I kind of feel like you should get like a couple extra points but for whatever reason they don't I mean no other choice is like a very dark comedy and you could say the same for I mean One Bad Afternoon is a comedy and Marty Supreme also funny moments but there are you know, they're more traditional and they're more, you could make an argument that they could be in the drama category.

18:43But I do think there's no category for out here necessarily. And I will say, I was so happy to see one of my favorite films of the year, Blue Moon, Make It In, which while not a musical, it is about a musical because it's about Oklahoma. So that sort of counts in some ways. Rebecca, did you have any other like big snubs that you were personally offended by? I'm not offended, but I was keeping an eye on Unmi Musaku, who starred in Sinners because she won at the Gothams, which was a huge, exciting win. She got the Critics' Choice nomination on Friday, and she didn't get nominated by the Globes, which doesn't mean she's out of the race.

19:22I feel like she was just having a really interesting surge, which I do think can continue without this. but yeah I thought she was probably close to being a nominee individually at the Globes as well yeah I think for me Josh Safdie not getting nominated in director was a little telling well first off they do six nominations now which it's a little like you know I always joke that I'm constantly cheating on this podcast when we're like pick one thing and I'm always like I have three By adding an extra nominee, it does sort of, in terms of Oscar forecasting, make it a little harder. But Josh not being one of the six, that's a little telling as to the divisiveness now that this film maybe has.

20:14I personally really loved Marty Supreme. I thought it was a ride. I was having too much fun. But I've now heard from people that are like, it's too long. He repeats the same scenes over and over. There's like beats that are getting repeated. And so when I look at Paul Thomas Anderson, Ryan Coogler, Guillermo del Toro, Jafar Banahi, Joachim Trier, and Chloe Zhao, that to me starts to look like that's where we're ending up come Oscar nominations day in some variation. Yeah, I agree. I think it's more of a question of like, which one isn't going to make it. Right. Who gets left off that list? Because that feels pretty coalesced and strong.

20:57And I don't really know. It'll be sad, whoever it is, I think. Because they're all so deserving. Yeah, they're good. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's the thing about the Noms this year is they're all pretty good. And then there were some surprises. Yeah. There were some acting surprises, especially in the actress categories. Ava Victor got a nomination for Sorry Baby, which I thought was cool. Chris, I know you're a big fan of the film. Yes, really, really like the film. Really like Ava. Ava, who was a Brooklyn comedian who I've known for years from the Brooklyn comedy scene, who has, they've become an incredible filmmaker with their debut film, which has been in the conversation for original screenplay.

21:36I feel like that's where we've been hearing the name Ava Victor. He uses she, they pronouns, by the way. But has not really been in conversation in regards to acting, even though they give a fantastic performance in Sorry Baby. So it's really cool to see them break into a pretty starry best actress in a drama category. You got Julia Roberts and Jennifer Lawrence and now Ava Victor. So I think it's, while I don't necessarily think it will launch them into Oscar consideration for best actress, it's a nice stamp of like, here you are, you led a fantastic movie, you're in this conversation. and I think it could really help with original screenplay, which I think it's still on the bubble in some places.

22:20Yeah, I think keeping that film in the spotlight is super helpful to it at the moment. I think if we're talking about the most Globes-y nominations, we have to shout out both Julia Roberts and Emily Blunt got nominated for After the Hunt and The Smashing Machine, respectively. And I think it's pretty fair to say After the Hunt's out of the awards race in general. So this feels, and Julia Roberts is very good in that movie, but this feels sort of like the old Globes. Who used to love a movie star and would bring them in any way possible. Right. I view it as like, I'll allow it. You know, like in terms of like, you know, roll your eyes.

22:59Like first off, Emily Blunt always. She's always getting a nom. When you least expect her. Remember her quiet place doing it at the SAGs? Yeah, yeah, yeah. She turns it out. Never underestimate Emily Blunt. And then, you know what? Yeah, did they get a little starry-eyed for Julia Roberts to attend? Absolutely. But, you know, I don't think it's... She's good in the movie. Yeah, it's not Angelina Jolie for the tourists. Like, we're not in the world of, like, what the hell's going on. And I also think what was cool was they nominated Tessa Thompson. Yeah. She's great in this movie. She's been doing a lot to get the word out there.

23:34I hope that people continue to watch this movie. So I kind of, you know, I let that all work itself out in the wash, you know. Yes, of course, it's a little eye-rolly, but we've seen worse. Yeah, I was really excited to see the Tessa's nomination. I think people are really sleeping on Nina Haas. She's so good in Hedda, and I wish in the supporting category she was popping up a little bit more, but we can't get everything we want. I wanted to note that Jacob Elordi and Amanda Seyfried are double nominees. They got nominated for Frankenstein and Ann Lee, of course. That was expected. But they both got nominated on the TV side for their limited series.

24:18Elordi was in this World War II miniseries called The Narrow Road to the Deep North, and Seyfried was in Long Bright River, which was a Peacock limited series. And I kind of wonder how much those nominations are basically for their movies because I didn't think that many people saw either of those shows. They're both very good in those shows. I've seen them both. But it's not exactly television that I think was much discussed. This is the literal first time I'm hearing of the Jacob Lorty show in this moment. You know what? I don't know if it cracks the public consciousness, but hey, good for him.

24:54It didn't, Chris, but it's actually very good. And he is very, very good in it. And so the voters have to see everything, you know? so I think they did actually see those two shows or at least an episode of those two shows also limited series that's where we can get creative too that's like where we can get a little wacky in our noms in general so it feels just a little more of a serious globes than in previous incarnations it felt kind of you know an accurate representation of film and television do we think that certain films are going to be really hurt by not being nominated at all here. You know, I noticed Knives Out.

25:38This is the first in that series, Wake Up Dead Man, that didn't get a nomination from the Globes, which is a very friendly place for those films. And then Is This Thing On?, which is the Bradley Cooper film, didn't get any nominations. Rental Family, House of Dynamite, and Sidney Sweeney's movie, Christy, all kind of missed here. Do we think this is the end of the road or how do we feel? I think there's two movies that you mentioned that were maybe a little bit more real. I think Sidney Sweeney and Christie was mounting a real campaign, but I just think it's fallen apart, both in the fact that it didn't do well at the box office.

26:19All anyone can talk about is this jeans controversy. It just hasn't worked. And then House of Dynamite, it's fascinating because, you know, people saw that movie on Netflix. It was ranked very high. It had the big Venice premiere, but I just think it's petered out. And it not getting any love at the Globes, I think, is representative of just an overall feeling for the movie. For Knives Out, is this thing on in Rental Family? I personally just don't think those movies are really there to begin with. Knives Out is a big commercial, should be theatrical. It's a comedy. It's not really an awards play.

26:59it's more of a commercial play and maybe it'll get some love and sag, but I think the other two were really gunning for awards and have officially shown that they're out of steam. Well, yeah, I feel like because the nominations were also like, oh, this was a pretty good year. Like, it feels like they did a pretty great job of representing the films that are in the conversation to be left out of that conversation means that it's a much harder hill to climb. and you know, we already said there are six directors. Who's going to fall off? Like how can you sort of weasel your way in if you're not already in the conversation?