The Oscar Nominations Are Here, and Sinners Just Made History

0:28Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men, From the very start. Yeah. It was a surprise-filled Oscar nominations morning. Yes. So today on the show, we're talking about all the Oscar nominations and about how we think the nominees will be kicking off the next phase of their campaigns. And later in the show, we're going to give our wish list for the Oscars ceremony from performances to what we want to see from the host, Conan O 'Brien. We're giving some more unsolicited advice. And to help us out with all of this, we're joined by our trusty New York correspondent who did not have to be up as early as we did, Chris Murphy.

1:07Hi, Chris. Hello, hello. I'm very well-rested and really, really surprised and happy about a bunch of these nominations. You'll be our voice of sanity since you got more sleep than us. So I think, I guess, we should probably kick off with the record. The record that was broken this morning. Sinners became the film with the most ever Oscar nominations. It broke the previously held record of 14 with its total of 16. So it broke it by a couple, which is pretty impressive for a film. Were you guys surprised? I mean, I'm a little bit surprised by the fact that it smashed the record with two extra nominations.

1:44I saw online that some people were like, oh, if it beats the record, then it doesn't really count because there's an extra casting category. But there used to be two sound categories, sound mixing and sound editing. So now there's only one, so that evens out. And then something that I really love to see, Delroy Lindo got into Best Supporting Actor, which took its sort of rumored 15 nominations up to 16, and it hit everywhere that it was expected to. So really, really amazing, over-performing day for a movie that already was expected to do really well. Yeah, I mean, it absolutely was a smash for them today, and especially after the Golden Globes, where they felt a little uneasy because they had lost to Hamnet in the best drama category and had won the box office achievement award, which we've talked about is a little iffy.

2:39So then this morning you saw the Academy do kind of an about face, I feel, to what the Globes gave them and nominated them, I mean, for everything, right? I don't know if there was a category they were up for that they didn't get a nomination. And I think also, I mean, Delroy Lindo, but it was also really great to see Ryan Coogler finally get his Oscar nomination. And Michael B. Jordan, too. Oh, yeah. And Michael B. Jordan, yeah, first-timers. But, you know, Coogler is one of the biggest directors in the business. He's like, you know, the great hope for theatrical in this industry and for him to get a nomination in this film.

3:28I think it was expected, but people were nervous. I was at a Sundance press event last night and, you know, we're all talking Oscars and people were like, oh, thank God I do the right thing, right? They're going to do it, right? Like they can't screw this up and they didn't. So, yay. I wasn't, I mean, I think it overperformed even from what I expected, but I wasn't worried about it not getting enough because I was at this AFI luncheon, which is a ton of, you know, voters and actors in the room. And that, Sinner's got the most love of any, any clip, any person in the room. And I felt at ease, even with the, because the Globes voting body is not a serious person, as you would say.

4:14And so I wasn't worried about it getting enough, but I agree, it really got everything. I don't think it got one snub or one miss, which is pretty incredible for a film. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's also a little Sinners represents the embrace of theatrical. This was a big theatrical release, an original film. I mean, one battle after another as well, But Sinners, you know, performed so big at the box office and they really took a chance on themselves really with this sort of deal that they struck with Warner Brothers. And I think that there's just an embrace in the industry of what the film represents overall.

4:59Don't you feel? Well, yeah. I also think, and this is a little inside baseball and in the weeds, but the initial reaction, there were some headlines being like, oh, Sinners has got a way to go to be profitable. And that really upset a lot of people. Yes. And I think that only engendered a lot more love and support for the film once it soared past box office expectations and was critically acclaimed and also a box office hit. And it also came out in April. We don't normally see films have such a long tail and such a long staying power. And I think that's a result of Ryan Coogler, Michael B. Jordan and their collaboration.

5:35I interviewed Michael B. Jordan for this magazine for a Hollywood issue. And he said that, you know, him and Cougs, as he said, he still feels that they're underestimated by Hollywood. And that makes sense. I mean, it's kind of ridiculous that Michael B. Jordan had not been nominated for an Oscar at this point with Fruitvale Station and Creed and Black Panther and whatnot. And Ryan Coogler has also been somewhat overlooked. So I think it was like a perfect storm of original IP, some like light controversy, pushing it into the conversation even further, and just a really well-executed and excellent film.

6:09Yeah, I think they had a lot of uphill battles that beyond the narrative, what you're saying, the way that it was reported about Ryan's sort of unique deal for this as some sort of bad thing when it's like really just a filmmaker fighting for what he needs to tell his story. And even what you're mentioning, Chris, that some people are like, well, there's a casting Oscar, so it won't be as big of a win. And you're just like, let's just acknowledge that this was a huge accomplishment and a huge win for cinema? I don't know. Like, it feels good to just celebrate how historic this is. And in a world where cinema is under attack, some might say, and specifically the studio that made Sinners, Warner Brothers, is up for sale and is in this, you know, battle between Netflix and Paramount trying to buy Warner Brothers.

6:56It's really a big win for theatrical releases and for cinema as we know and love it in theaters, not watching from home. And with every big winner, there's always a loser. And there was one pretty glaring snub up and down. I was pretty shocked with Wicked for Good not receiving any nominations. I personally thought Ariana Grande was a lock for supporting actress. I mean, she's barely, she's not really supporting in the second film. She's basically a co-lead. So I was really surprised there. I was really surprised in original song. And then just, you know, up and down, categories that they were nominated in last year and had won, they didn't even get a nomination.

7:51Yeah, like things like costume, I wouldn't have thought twice about putting it on my predictions because Paul Tasso won last year and that was like a historic moment for him on stage. and the costumes are still very good. I think to get zero nominations, I don't think anyone could have seen that coming, even though we were all aware this movie wasn't as received as well as the first one. Yeah, I should say I hosted the official Universal podcast for Wicked for Good. So I spent a lot of time in that world. And yeah, it is crazy. It had 10 Oscar nominations last year for part one and zero for this one.

8:25As Rebecca said, though, the first one was way more critically acclaimed than the second one. And it also made more money. So I think those are factors that can't be ignored. But yeah, tough day for Wicked for Good. Although Wicked for Good made a lot of money. It didn't make as much as the first one, but it is, you know, definitely a hit for Universal. It's interesting with the Academy because they can love you one minute and then the next minute they can be so cold. It's fickle. It's interesting because Avatar, Fire, and Ash also shot essentially back-to-back like Wicked did. And I think both those films suffered this time around sort of for a similar reason.

9:07You know, the story was arguably not as good in both the ones that came out this year. Like they had a lot of sort of the same hurdles, I think. Avatar, Fire, and Ash did land a couple nominations. So it did better. But I think sequels, man, they just really have a challenge. And a sequel that was shot at the same time as the first seems to be an even more challenging narrative. I can understand that from a perspective of, oh, well, we already awarded this movie in a way the first time. So why wouldn't we look elsewhere at more new movies this time? But yeah, those are all really great points.

9:43We should say those were not the only snubs. I think one snub that I am dismayed by and am sad about and was not expecting was young Chase Infinity for one battle after another in Lead Actress. A lot of people had her going all the way there. Breakout star, you know, first film role ever. And she's the heart of that movie. But I think something, I don't think it's a knock on her performance at all. I just think people don't know her. And the surprise nominee in that category was someone who everybody knows and loves a lot, Kate Hudson for Song Song Blue. So it makes sense, the snub, but it does sting a little bit as a Chase Infinity stan now.

10:24I'm a Chase Infinity stan. Rebecca is a Chase Infinity stan. She, you know, profiled her for vanities very, very early. I mean, really basically her first profile. It was her first profile, yeah. But it is her first movie. She'll be back. She's gonna, you know, she'll be back. She's young, she'll be back. This movie has made her a star. She is a star. I had her on my predictions very, very early. I really did think the same, that she was gonna go all the way. Kate Hudson is a big surprise. She, though, campaigned incredibly, incredibly hard. And I think that she had a little bit, not in the nefarious way that Andrea Risborough with the, you know, like emails that went out.

11:09We don't speak of that on the podcast. No Francis Fisher talk here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But not, I don't mean it in that way. I mean, I think that she is a Hollywood staple. She's very well liked. She's been working really hard in this past couple of years doing good work. and I think she just has a lot of fans in the industry. And she sings in the movies, she does comedy, she does drama. There's a massive, massive twist that you really won't see coming if you don't know about it. That's insane. That I really didn't see coming. And, you know, it paid off. And it shows that if you can assemble kind of a grouping of people within the actors branch together, you can get in there.

11:54Yeah, I mean, Kate Henson is so well-connected. If you have ever seen her at an event, she knows everyone. Obviously, the family she comes from. It's just, it's kind of like an old-school Oscar nomination because she did transform into this role. She kind of, like, dressed her beauty down for it, wore weird wigs. Like, it definitely has that feel. So I guess we shouldn't have been surprised. It's just that movie. It's kind of like, okay, sure. And I will say, I think the movie is that shit insane. It was insane to watch. But I left it being like, Kate Hudson's really good. She's the best part of this movie.

12:28And it's great to see her back on screen. And she's, you know, we had her in Running Point on Netflix. And now she's in a big movie. And it feels sort of like, you know, Kate Hudson-a-sance, if you will. Because she's been a little bit away for a little bit. But yeah, I definitely think we can't underplay, you know, her Hollywood roots. And the eyes of Tammy Faye of it all. That sort of transformative performance that Oscar voters love to see women do. So, you know. Yeah, and Rebecca, to your point, at the BAFTA tea, she just, I mean, she just worked around, I mean, she was like a politician. There's no other way to say it.

13:06She just has that ability. She's incredibly friendly. Everybody knows her. But, like, she can meet people for the first time and just hold a conversation with them and they feel special and they're talking to Kate Hudson. and that pays off. What were some other surprises? I think the film, I guess I overestimated, was Palm to Ore winner. It was just an accident. Jafar Panahi's film, which I thought was going to get in for picture. I thought Panahi, with his incredible story, was a real director candidate and the film missed in both of those. It got two other nominations. It got screenplay and international feature, but I thought it was going to play a few other places that it didn't end up getting there.

13:57What do you guys think happened there? Well, I appreciate that you don't blame me. Because I've been in your ear. Yeah, yeah. This is all your fault, John. Yeah, I've been in your ear this whole time being like, it's a lot. Like, it's all happening. I think actually you texted me, Rebecca, sometime over the weekend because, you know, we had our predictions. and you were like, I think I was wrong about it. It was just an accident. I think it's cooling. And I was like, you're insane. You're being crazy. Stick with me. I just think the movie cooled a little and, you know. He hasn't won anything in a while, I think, was part of the problem.

14:36I feel like the last time we really saw him was at the Gothams and that was like the first award of the season. And that was, you know, and so much has happened since then. Feels like years ago. So it cooled for sure. but other things gain momentum. When things gain momentum, sentimental value. I actually think maybe the best thing that could have happened to sentimental value was getting completely blanked by the sacks. Yes. Because I think a lot of people are like... The actor awards. We're allowed to call it both on this podcast because I refuse. The actor's awards, forgive me, I meant the actor's awards.

15:09But yeah, I think a lot of people are like, wait, we really like this movie. We love this movie. This is a great film. How could it completely not show up at this major precursor. Let's get to work or let's watch it because everyone's upset that it didn't, you know, I'm sure there are plenty of people in the Academy who didn't actually watch it until that happened. And I do think that, you know, that actually ended up being like a late surge and getting us a surprise nomination for Miss Elle Fanning. I'm happy to see it. She's been doing great work on television in the grade. And last year, I think she was probably on the bubble for a complete unknown.

15:45and for her to sneak in with a double nomination with her and Inga, her co-star, and take that fifth slot that was really up for grabs. There were a couple names batting around, Odessa Zion for Marty Supreme as well. I think that just shows the overall strength of sentimental value and how international the Academy has become. I kind of feel like sentimental is like a dark horse beyond even Hamnet. based on these nominations. It overperformed in so many different areas. I just think you're right, Chris. I think just people were like, we love this movie. It's quieter and smaller and kind of like a true independent in its scope.

16:30And I just think it really meant something to a lot of people who watched it. Even from Cannes, you know, people thought sentimental value was actually going to win the Palme d 'Or from Cannes, if you remember. And, you know, Neon really knows how to do this with these types of films, including It Was Just an Accident, which did, you know, receive nominations. Yeah. I mean, to circle back to Jafar Panahi, I mean, that sort of director's slot that many thought he might get, I think, Joakim Trier slotted in there, right? So, if that's cooling and sentimental value is surging. That's how these things go.

17:14And Guillermo del Toro also missed for director. Director was quite a, I mean, we kind of knew it was going to be a wild card, that category this year, but it was.

17:25We're going to take a quick break. When we're back, more on this year's Oscar nominations.

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19:07Welcome back to Little Gold Men. What else surprised us? I wasn't surprised because I had it in my predictions, but a lot of people didn't think Josh Safdie was going to get the directing nom, even though he got a DGA nom. I feel like that movie just had a lot of momentum, and I feel there's a feeling of, like, independent filmmakers who have a sort of signature style, which he definitely does. that's continuing from Sean Baker to Josh. And I felt like he was getting a nom, but I think that that's a testament to how open the directing race really was. Yeah. I think one of the biggest surprises that we haven't talked about was F1 landing a Best Picture nomination, which I had to predict Best Picture for us.

20:01I did not put it on there. As I know John has witnessed, I did text or slack over the weekend being like, I don't know about this last spot. I think there were like two or three films that could have taken that last spot. I had put in, it was just an accident. Some people put in Surat. And F1 got in there. It really shocked me, to be honest. I think that film is pretty mediocre. I know people liked it, but I just don't have a real explanation other than lots of people saw it and I guess love a Brad Pitt movie. I think it's the theatrical thing again. Well, also, Rebecca, we should have chatted before we did our predictions because I had F1 correctly in Best Editing.

20:42Oh, nice. Which is always a reflection. It's always a reflection. So once it popped up in Best Editing today, I was like, wow, that's going to get the 10th slot. And I do think also the reason why I had it is because there's still that branch of the Academy or the members of the Academy that love a car. They love their cars. They love to Vroom Vroom and Zoom Zoom and Ford v Ferrari. And I think that's a good analog. And that, you know, scored a bunch of nominations as well. And I think, you know, the editing of the car, you know, the races and whatnot is impressive. So I saw the tea leaves there.

21:18That being said, I was pulling for Blue Moon for that final 10th slot. But Blue Moon, we got Ethan Hawken, which I love, my male performance of the year. And it got in for Best Original Screenplay. which was nice to see. So, yeah, that 10th slot, though, was really... I saw, I think, almost every movie. I know. It was hard to predict, but I do think that there is a theme going around. And F1 is an original film that is technically incredibly well-made. I mean, the technicality of the film is incredibly impressive. and it also made like over$600 million worldwide. And Apple also did a real campaign to support it as much as they could.

22:07They didn't have Brad Pitt to do a lot of things because he's filming the David Fincher movie, but they were out there doing their thing with him and I just think that there's impending like doom about like what's going to happen with Warner Brothers and is Netflix really going to keep their movies in theaters and blah, blah, blah. There's a feeling of like people wanting to be like rewarding these films that did really well in theaters and were original, which F1 is. I mean, it's the same old story over and over and over again, but it's not, you know, existing IP. Some people think the F1 of it all is an existing IP, but I don't count that.

22:54Yeah, you still have to make a story out of it. Yeah, that is true. Well, I think the question now is, with these nominations, with the narrative that Sinners has as sort of breaking this record, I've been seeing a lot on social media that's like, let's give Sinners a win. Best picture or best director. I tweeted that. It was just Chris over and over. All my burner accounts, just like Sinners, Sinners, Sinners. You have a lot of time on your hands, Chris. I know it's just social media and we can't take that as real, but it makes me wonder if this narrative does help it because we've kind of been saying Paul Thomas Anderson has director locked up and picture is locked up.

23:36And so is there a surprise where sinners could leap ahead, even if it's not those categories? Could Delroy Lindo be the surprise winner? I don't know. Like, is there something interesting that could happen? Yes, I think there will be surprises. Oscar. I actually think we're entering one of the more exciting Oscars in a bit. Not in Best Actress. No, not in Best Actress. That one is so not. Congratulations to Jesse Bumley. Do I think One Battle is still going to win? Yes. But I think you're right in Supporting Actor. I think even in Supporting Actress, we think it's Tiana, but there could be this Amy Madigan kind of like surge or feeling to reward an actress who's getting this like huge second win and yeah I do think Delroy could win I mean the supporting actor race you look at it and you're like I don't know all of them I'm like they're all like really good overall actually just pulling back what did you feel about like the nominations like overall I kind of feel like they're pretty good yeah I think this is a really strong film year.

24:52So I think because of that, there are no nominations that I'm side-eyeing. I think, you know, there are a lot of great performances and, you know, a bevy of good performances. Some are not going to make it all the way. I do think in terms of looking ahead at the winners, Sinner's over-performing and most of the other big picture contenders, one battle after another, missing out on Chase, Hamnet missing out on Paul Meskel, and Marty Supreme missing out on Odessa and on score and sentimental value over performing and scoring nine nominations tied for third, that like sinners and sentimental value could definitely spoil some of the preconceived notions that we have about who's going to take home trophies.

25:34So like if I'm in the Academy, I'm looking at sinners for best picture. I think Paul Thomas Anderson is a lock and director. I'm looking at Joachim Trier for screenplay. You know, there's ways this year to spread the wealth And, you know, it's just more exciting than I think we thought the race was going to be. And I'm hoping that this energy continues as we go forward. I like that idea because I feel like as much as I loved Enora or I loved everything everywhere all at once, like I would have liked the wealth to be spread more those years. And if this is such an incredible year for film, let's do it.

26:09Like, how do we get these thousands of voters to spread the wealth? They listen to this podcast. because I think this would be the year to do it where you let, you know, I mean, I don't want to reference the Moonlight La La Land year too much because it was so crazy, but when you see Moonlight win Best Picture and La La Land win Director, like, that was nice. Like, we can do that again, guys, you know? We have the technology. Yeah. We have the power. Well, I think we've covered all the major snubs and surprises. I really love that there were so many this year. I think this has just been the most exciting season.

26:43It continues to be. We're going to take another break. You can check out all of the snubs and surprises, as well as the full nominations list on VanityFair.com. And when we get back, we're going to talk about what we want to see at the actual Oscar ceremony this year.

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