Tony Awards Predictions, Plus: YouTubers in Theaters & 2 Major HBO Shows Say Goodbye

23:17I mean, thank you for playing everybody who is not Laurie Metcalf. I mean, there's no justice in this world if she does not win. And also there's no world in which she does not win. Yeah. There isn't. Although I will say I loved Giant as well. I thought that was another one of my favorites this year. Aya Cash is very good in it. She was great. And I would shout out Betsy Adem is great in Liberation. That was a great play. Pulitzer Prize winning play. We haven't talked about Liberation at all. But wait, no, Liberation is my favorite play. What am I talking about? Okay, we got to roll back the tape.

23:43This is the problem. It's not on Broadway anymore. And so me forgetting it is hopefully not indicative of what the Tony voters will do, but it might be. But also, you guys, June Squibb at 96 was unbelievable. She really was. You would never know her age. I was so, so, so impressed by her stamina and her energy. And it was such a touching, it was, you know, a really emotional role. When I am 96, I would never be on stage eight times a week. Eight times a week. Ever. Ever. I, like, honestly really felt so lucky to get to see June Squibb on stage. Incredible. I mean, yeah, who knows if this is— She's going into Chicago, I heard.

24:21She's taking over from Whitney Leavitt as Roxy Hart. Of course. Oh, that would be— That's what I heard. Yeah, but I guess we should talk about this is another problem with the Tonys is that sometimes a show closes in the fall, and it's great, and it gets nominated. But that means that it is not top of mind when it comes time for nominations. How much of an effect does that have? A big one? I think a big one. I think usually the plays that end up winning are either long-running things that have opened in the fall or plays that have opened in the spring. Well, it's interesting that you say that because that kind of leads us to our next category, which is leading actress in a play.

24:54And I think that might go to somebody who is in a show that is no longer running. But here are the nominees. We've got Rose Byrne for Fallen Angels, Carrie Coon for Bug, Susanna Flood for Liberation, Leslie Manville for Oedipus, and Kelly O 'Hara for Fallen Angels. I'm so sorry. They pronounce it Oedipus. I know. I literally went on TV and I was like, Oedipus. Oedipus. But it's funny that you said that because I think Leslie Manville for Oedipus is probably going to take it. Oh, you think? Yeah. I think that she's the front runner. I think she's the front runner. But if I could give it to Susanna Flood.

25:26I mean. I would. I absolutely would. Or honestly, Kelly O 'Hara. I think. Or Rose Byrne. They're going to split the. Well, but how do you carry cool? Here's the thing. They're all incredible. Give it to all of them. Actresses. Actresses. We love them. With a capital A. Who do we think is going to win the category then? I mean, Leslie Manville is the most prestigy. She has the most prestigy role, I would say. I will say I feel like I've seen liberation everywhere. They are hitting the, like, FYC really, really hard between director Whitney White, playwright Bess Woll, Susanna Flood, Betsy Adem.

25:58Like, they have so many nominations. And the show, it did win the Pulitzer. So maybe they won't let you forget it. Maybe they won't let you forget it. I don't know. We'll see. I mean, I would be thrilled. She's great in that play. It's about 1970s feminism. We haven't even, like, talked about it at all. It breaks the fourth wall in a really interesting way and plays with timelines, and it's a memory play, and I don't know, just, like, the ending is so moving. I could talk about liberation all day. It's touring now, right? Or it's going to be touring? I think it is, yes. So that'll be great so for everybody else can get to see it.

26:27Mm-hmm. Leading actor in the play, the nominees are Will Harrison for Punch, Nathan Lane for Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman, John Lithgow for Giant, Daniel Radcliffe for Every Brilliant Thing, and Mark Strong for the aforementioned Oedipus. I mean, this is a battle of the titans. Yeah, man. Lane v. Lithgow. Ooh! I don't know how you choose between them. I mean, I think, you know, both of them have multiple Tonys. Mm-hmm. So that is not really a factor. There's nobody—between the two of them, it's not like it's his turn. There's no narrative like that. No. I think that I would go Lithgow by a hair just because Nathan Lane has won more recently.

27:02He won for Angels in America. And it's sort of a bigger performance. You know, he's Roy Cohn in Angels in America, towering, you know. And that play is 12 hours long. Yeah, it's two plays that he did, you know, and it's 12 hours long. I think Lithgow, giant, really, like, he is the central performance. He is the towering giant figure. It's all circles around him. Whereas Death of a Salesman, even though Nathan Lane is Willie Loman, it's more of an ensemble. piece. Well, it's more of maybe a Metcalf showcase, actually. And Metcalf maybe sort of is the one that you leave being like, well, I think Lithgow, just by virtue of like being the guy in the show giant and like having like, you know, it's been years since he won.

27:38He won the Olivier already for it. I don't know if people necessarily take that into consideration, but it's a it's a factor. Yeah. Chris, do you want to talk a little bit about what the show giant is and why that's a factor for you? It's also a very urgent and very timely show. It's about the somewhat beloved children's author Roald Dahl and a book review he wrote in the 1980s that was anti-Semitic, but also in defense of Palestine. And so it's basically about his book company, FSG. They sort of come to his estate in the UK to sort of deal with the fallout of this book review and to try to get him to apologize.

28:16And he is not willing to apologize. And it's really sort of, it speaks to, you know, debates about Zionism and Israel and Palestine and everything through the lens of looking back in history to the 1980s. So it really is like really polarizing and controversial and sort of like a Rorschach test. Like everybody gets something else from the play and it has, you know, had its detractors. But sort of no one can deny that John Lithgow gives this really fearless, really sort of intense and just larger than life performance. Yeah. As a Jewish person who loved Roald Dahl. It's really in my wheelhouse.

28:53Couldn't agree more. He's a complicated guy. And he's on stage for almost the entire run of the show. And he's talking the whole time, too. Talking. Yes. Okay, let's move on to featured actress in a musical. We haven't talked about musicals. We've just been talking about plays. Let's get into it. So the nominees are Shoshana Bean for The Lost Boys, Hannah Cruz for Chess, Rachel Dratch for Richard O 'Brien's The Rocky Horror Show. Arthur Miller's The Rocky Horror Show. I mean, Anna Gasteyer for Schmigadoon and Nichelle Lewis for Ragtime. We haven't talked about many of the shows in this category yet.

29:26Yeah. I will say that the most enthusiastic entrance applause that I have heard the entire time that I've been seeing Broadway shows this spring was Dratch in the Rocky Horror Show. She appears on that stage. She plays the narrator. It is the stage version of the Rocky Horror Picture Show, which actually predates the Rocky Horror Picture Show. But yes, if you know that cult phenomenon, you know what to expect here. She plays the narrator. She appeared. And I literally felt like I was a can, like, watching a standing ovation after, like, the Spotlight Centerpiece movie. It just kept going. People love Rachel Fresh.

30:01It's what she deserves. It's amazing. That's Debbie Downer you're talking about. I think it does. I agree. I am with the people. It's just so funny because she has no singing in the show. But she does. She is the person, because she's the narrator, that has to deal with all of the call-outs, right? Obviously, the Rocky Horror Picture Show. So it's become a cult midnight screening classic and people will like yell things and throw things at the screen. But she as the improviser and the narrator is the one who kind of like deals with that. And she's so freaking funny. She does it so well. I think she has my vote.

30:29And I think that I think she might be the front runner because like Shoshana Bean's doing her Shoshana Bean thing. She sounds great. But The Lost Boys is, shall we say, silly. It's sort of a Six Flags ride more than a musical. I had a good time. I had a better time than I would on a roller coaster. But I do think, though, Rachel Tratch is, you know, she's a celebrity, you know, comedy queen, SNL. But Shoshana has been putting in the work. This is her, like, I think third nomination or second nomination in as many years. Has she ever won? She's never won. Yeah, she was up for Hell's Kitchen also.

31:01She was up for Hell's Kitchen. She was up for Mr. Saturday Night, the Billy Crystal musical, too. So I think she's sort of on this kick up that I could definitely see people being like, it's her time. Yeah. Let's give it to her. She's got to not just play a mom or a daughter, though. I know. She's got to have, like, a role. Give her something to do. Give me somebody to dance for. I loved Nichelle, though. I thought she was phenomenal. She also made me sob. And then on Agosteyer, I—so I just saw Schmigadoon, and I—the first act, she doesn't really do much. And so I was like, oh, maybe it's just, again, a stunt casting.

31:35But by the second act, she is hysterical. I mean, I will say, just to back up, Schmigadoon is based on the Apple TV Plus show of the same name. They crammed the whole six-episode series into a two-and-change-hour musical. She plays the role that Kristen Chenoweth did in the show. So a big set piece number, which is very fun. Yeah, you can kind of guess the type. Exactly. But yeah, Schmigadoon is a good time. I also did not expect to like Schmigadoon as much as I did. Yeah, I went in with my arms folded across my chest, and then I left with my arms open and charmed. It's irresistible. Yeah, even the stoniest person ends up completely enamored.

32:11All right. So now we've got Best Featured Actor in a Musical. We've got Ali Lewis Borski for The Lost Boys, Andreda Shields for Cats the Jellicle Ball, Bryce Pinkham for Chess, Ben Levi Ross for Ragtime, and Leighton Williams for Titanic. Oh, we haven't talked about Titanic at all. Which I did a whole big story on Titanic. It's the little show that could for me. It's, you know, it began in sort of the basement of UCB of a comedy theater as a Titanic sort of spoof where what if Celine Dion was on the Titanic and recounting the events of the Titanic and it's a musical set to all of her music. And not just the events of the real Titanic, the events of Titanic, the 1997 chance.

32:51There was a real Titanic? I thought it was just a movie. Yes, there's a character named Victor Garber, which is like my favorite show. Which sort of shows how silly and sort of ridiculous it is. And I think nobody, I mean, you can read the story on theanityfair.com, but nobody involved with the show thought 10 years from when they began that it would make it to Broadway. And it's been all over the world, you know, Australia, London, like all over the country. And its final stop has been Broadway, which is kind of amazing. So even though it's very much not a traditional musical and not like, not original in some ways, because it's also in Dion's music.

33:21It is kind of, it's a coot and a half. It's a really fun time. And it's amazing that it got this far. And it should be said that Leighton Williams won the Olivier for his role as the iceberg in Titanic. And he's nominated again now. He's really funny. I mean, of these, I think I would vote for Ali from The Lost Boys. He was my favorite part of The Lost Boys. He's playing Kiefer Sutherland in The Lost Boys. Blonde as hell. He's got this blonde wig. I do think my - He has this great, like, deep voice and this kind of funny vampire affect. He can sing really well, too. He's so well. He's got a great voice.

33:55He was Tommy in The Who's Tommy. He's also up on those wires. Up on those wires. I have a bone to pick about those wires, though. Oh, yeah? They're flying too slowly. My community theater production of Peter Pan, we were faster. But maybe this is like, that's why they're scary vampires, because they're slow. They're slow. They want to suck. I don't know. Ben Levi Ross is great in Ragtime. If Ragtime has a big surge of support, I could see him, you know, being caught up in that wave, too. He's playing, what, Mother's Younger Brother, a future revolutionary. Yeah, I don't know. This is a tough category.

34:27Andre DeShields is just playing himself in Cats. But he's Andre DeShields. He's Andre DeShields. But he won for Hittiestown. That wasn't that long ago. That was also playing Andre DeShields. Yes. But this is Andre DeShields in a really big wig. But doesn't it upset you that none of the Cats got nominated? It really does. Like, there are so many amazing performances in that cast, and like giving the nomination to Andre DeShields is kind of the like safe and boring choice. Like he's a legend. We all know that. We all agree. Does he need a second Tony for showing that? I wonder if this is the same thing where people were Tony nominators were sort of like, well, there's so many.

34:58How do we possibly choose? I'm sure they're all up for featured. How do they all slot in? Yeah, a lot of canceling themselves off. But I could see... Now I'm predicting Andre DeShields. I think he's going to win because I think he's like represents the whole community that, like, is the reason for the season of Cats. I could see that as well. And, like, yeah. All right, let's move on to best leading actress in the musical. Sarah Chase Schmigadoon. I was about to say Hilary Buses. Yes, congratulations. I'm staring at you. Okay, Stephanie Hsu, Richard O 'Brien's The Rocky Horror Show. Casey Levy, Ragtime.

35:35Marla Mindell for Titanic. And Christiane Pitts for Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York. I think the question here is, Marla Mendel will win a Tony. Yes. What is she winning a Tony for? Probably Book of a Musical. She's nominated for three. Yeah. Book, musical, and leading actress. Yeah, it's not nominated for a score because it's all Celine Dion's. But I do think what's really kind of lovely about this category is that they're all first-time nominees. Yeah. That doesn't happen very often. It doesn't happen very often, especially for lead actress in a musical. That's really cool. I love Marla Mendel.

36:06I've been a fan of hers since 2007 on YouTube. I think Casey Levy probably has this just because ragtime is is so the performances are the reason like the show works and they're unbelievable. And like she's just that voice on her. Damn, she can sing. And that song Back to Before is so absolutely gorgeous. It's a real sledgehammer of a song and she does it very well. I think I think I'm in agreement. If I were to give it to somebody, I might give it to Stephanie Hsu, though, just because I think that Rocky Horror has has its ups and downs. But I think that she is great throughout. I think that's category fraud.

36:41She is barely in it as Janet. That's not true. The whole first part is all her and Brad. I don't know. She shouldn't be a leading actress, but I do think that she should be in contention. Yes, for sure. I think also Casey Levy. I loved Sarah Chase so much, too, and Schmigadoon. It's like the fact that Ragtime and Schmigadoon are in the same category, it's really hard to wrap your head around. And we haven't talked about Two Strangers Carry a Cake. Is that because none of us liked Two Strangers Carry a Cake? I was charmed by it. This is a two-person musical about, as the title suggests, two strangers.

37:13They barely carry the cake. They barely carry the cake. That is very true. It's really just about two strangers. I think that it is charming. I think that college students will do it forever. It'll be the new last five years. Good for them. And I think it'll run forever because it's two actors, so it's cheap to run. I know. It's just like, that should not be. We just sound like Liz Lemon trying to compliment Jenna Maroney's bad play. The writing was great. Going back to the numbers, there were six new musicals. That's it this season. One of them was Queen of Versailles. So like really not a ton in contention here.

37:46And so Two Strangers snuck in. Titanic snuck in. It's fine. She was good. I don't have it. Yes, she's good in it. She's wearing that crop top. But I do think that the real draw for that show is, and I'm going to do the best leading actor. This is my segue. Nicholas Christopher for chess. Luke Evans for Richard O 'Brien's The Rocky Horror Show. Joshua Henry for ragtime. Sam Tutte for Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York. and Brandon Uranowitz for Ragtime. Sam Tutte is a star. Can't wait to see what he does next. Really talented. Funny. Wasn't Evan Hansen in The West End? I think that's where he got his star.

38:19He's derogatory. I'm sorry. I was so exhausted by him. I understand that that is the role, and I think that he did do it well. I think my problem is more with the show itself. Yeah, it wasn't my favorite. I agree with that entirely. But guess what? He's not going to win because Joshua Henry is going to win. It is his to lose, for sure. Before we move on, though, I do want to shout out my boy Nick Christopher, who gives my favorite performance. Because he also gives a real—he has an amazing voice in his, like, act one finale. Ugh, Anthem. He sings the shit out of Anthem. Yeah, he's in chess as the Russian chess master.

38:55Chess is so dumb. It's so dumb. Cold War musical. But it's so fun. But it's so fun. He also is, like, sort of a journeyman theater actor. And this is really his sort of like defining, you know, you are a Broadway leading man. This is his moment of arrival. It's his arrival moment. I don't think he's going to win this. But it's like, you're here. You're here to stay. He is now a Broadway star. He's a Broadway star. And you know who else is now a Broadway star is Luke Evans, who's really great in Rocky Horror. Like, Frankenfurter is not an easy role. No. And he carries it off. He does. And he's wearing those heels.

39:23Yeah, exactly. He sounds good. I don't know. I think that. He's funny. Yeah. Yeah. I was a fan of Luke Evans. But yes, Joshua Henry is going to win. The end. He is. We are going to take another break. When we are back, more of our Tony Awards predictions.

39:48Hi, I'm Nicole Phelps, the Global Fashion News and Features Director and co-host of Vogue's podcast, The Run Through. Each week on the show, our listeners get an all-access pass to the world of Vogue with the latest fashion news and the most exciting voices in the industry. On Tuesdays, join me to hear interviews with influential leaders in the industry like Calvin Klein, Daniel Roseberry, and Jonathan Anderson. On Thursdays, join Head of Editorial Content at Vogue, Chloe Mal, and Head of Editorial Content at British Vogue, Chomenati, as they explore style and culture through the lens of fashion with guests like Martha Stewart, Kamala Harris, and Tracee Ellis Ross.

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40:42Welcome back to Little Gold Men. Okay, best revival of a play. We have Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman, Becky Shaw by Gina Gianfrito, Every Brilliant Thing by Duncan McMillan and Johnny Donohoe, Fallen Angels by Noel Coward, and Oedipus, if you insist, by Robert Icke based on Sophocles. So, I mean, it's Death of a Salesman, right? We probably don't have to get to— Well, I could see the Scott Rudin thing rearing its head here. How much do you think people care? That's the question. I think people over 50 don't care, and I think people under 50— Because they're all too busy throwing phones at their assistants.

41:16Yeah, it's what everybody did. Allegedly. But I do think the younger generation cares more. But obviously, I think there are less younger people who are Tony voters than, like, older people. So I do think ultimately it probably doesn't matter. But I've heard rumblings of people being like, well, I can't vote for – I can vote for Lori because it's the performance. But then what's number two, I guess? I mean, is it Becky Shaw? I don't think it is if it's polarizing enough. Michelle and Caitlin, neither of you is a fan. Not at all. I also just felt like it didn't answer the question of why now. It felt, to your point, Hillary, like a play from the aughts that wasn't updated.

41:48And I was sort of like, who cares? But I think it's Death of a Salesman. Yeah. I don't think that Scott Rudin is going to be enough to stop it. I will say that a couple weeks ago, Nathan Lane won a drama desk and he thanked Scott Rudin in his speech and the audience booed. So like different voting body. Drama desk tends to be a little bit more like off-Broadway folks rather than just the commercial side. But you never know. Could be a bill with her. It is possible. I am here rooting for every brilliant thing. I know we're probably small and mighty, but I just thought it was incredible. Well, I'm happy that you liked Game of Thrones.

42:20Thank you so much, Hillary. I stand here on my pedestal. Daniel's great in it. It felt more like a theater class exercise than a play. I saw it late. I saw Mariska Hargitay. Oh, you did. She's having a good time. Can you explain what the play is? So, yes, Every Brilliant Thing. It's a one-person show. It's essentially a monologue with audience participation. The narrator is telling the story of their life kind of from their mother attempted suicide when they were a kid. And then they start keeping this list. I say they because the protagonist can be like kind of anybody. It's intentionally kept vague.

42:57But they start keeping a list of like things to live for basically. And then the play follows them kind of through their life as they add to this list and grow and change. And I think that if I were in high school, I would have been like, this is very profound. Are you calling me juvenile? The claws come out. No, because, I mean, the meanness of Becky Shaw is also juvenile. So I think that I'm just saying that we're at different lunch tables. Yeah, that's fair. But it was, I guess, something that I loved so much is that you can have a completely different experience every single show because it really depends on your audience.

43:34and I saw Daniel and he was like running around the theater for like an hour or half an hour before I'm sure Mariska they all do it talking to every single person and getting anecdotes and getting stories and kind of testing the waters to see who is going to make the best match for X character so there's also like a lot of improv yeah Chris can you take us into Revival the musical okay ooh this is actually kind of the big bigger than Best Musical this is bigger than Best Musical this year I would say alright and the nominees for Best Revival of a Musical are Cats, The Jellicle Ball, Ragtime, and Richard O 'Brien's The Rocky Horror Show.

44:10I think it's gonna be Ragtime. I completely agree. I think The Jellicle Ball is great, and I think it probably has a very vocal fan base. But Ragtime feels, I don't know, like it's got a political aspect to it. And Cats, The Jellicle Ball does. It does, too. They both kind of have a... At a very perilous time for queer people and trans people specifically, like there is certainly that aspect to it. Totally. But Ragtime, I don't know, feels like somehow weirdly like of the moment, even though it's about turn of the century America. I think the immigration angle is really important, especially now with ICE and whatnot.

44:48And it just is really so timely. I do think I've heard more people criticize the production of Ragtime for being just sort of like pick it up from New York City encores and just plop it on Broadway without actually sort of doing that much. Making it bigger. Making it bigger. It's sort of just like a pared down version of the version that happened 30 years ago. That being said, I know a couple people who didn't like Cats, which is fair. I will say on Gold Derby, Cats is ahead by like a sliver. Oh, interesting. This is a nail biter. It's a nail biter. I think it depends on which way the votership breaks, right?

45:22Ragtime, like you said, it's an okay revival of an amazing musical. And Cats the Jellicle Ball is an amazing revival of Cats. And it's like Ragtime is, if it goes to Ragtime, it will be because it is an amazing show that people are having really moving experiences sitting through. If it goes to Cats, it will be because people are looking at it as like, what is the best revival? Yeah. I think. I agree. And it's not going to go to Richard O 'Brien's The Rocky Horror Show presented by Arthur Miller. in conjunction with no coward. It is not. Kayla, do you have a prediction on this one? I'm just partial to ragtime.

45:56I think I completely agree with everything you said, Chris. So I actually went in completely blind. I didn't know anything about it. I loved how pared down the set was. I think it made you completely focus on just the music and the songs and their words because that is the whole show. I mean, if you listen to the cast album, you basically have seen the entire show. Totally. There's basically no dialogue other than song. I left feeling so, like, changed by it, and I think that's incredibly powerful. If you're not sobbing when Little Cole House is like, I can't even talk about it. To be clear, I cried multiple times.

46:31And I think it's a really stunningly performed piece of a musical that I think has some flaws, but is, like, pound for pound, like, some of the best musical theater songs that we've ever gotten. So I would be happy to see either. Should we talk about Best Play? Let's do it. Okay. The nominees are The Balusters by David Lindsay-Abert, Giant by Mark Rosenblatt, Liberation by Bess Wohl, and Little Bear Ridge Road by Samuel D. Hunter. Which we have not discussed but is another Laurie Metcalf-Scott Rudin joint. And I did not see it. Nor did most people. I read it. Oh. I mean, I think Best Play, it's a fight between Giant and Liberation.

47:10The Ballisters, it's about a suburban, like, homeowners association, and it's a comedy. And it's a good time, but it's pretty low-hanging fruit. Yeah, it's very, like, oh, post-2020, you know, about neighbors getting along and fighting. And, like, they come from different backgrounds and have different political views. Yeah, it was okay. But I do think it's Liberation or Giant. And with the Pulitzer bump in recent years, you and a Pulitzer, Purpose won the Pulitzer. It's boys versus girls. But Giant won the Olivier, right? So it's like, I don't know. Yeah, Liberation, I just thought, was so beautiful.

47:46I saw it off-Broadway. I saw it again on Broadway. I took my mom. It was like one of those things. Did you feel like the Broadway production made it bigger, like, in a way that it needed to be? I thought it was exactly the same, and I thought that was the right call. Liberation maybe does more than Giant does in terms of the writing, right? Yes. Like what we were talking about, breaking. It's more complicated. Yeah, and speaking directly to the audience and the flashbacks in the present day. And whereas Giant is more just like a traditional narrative arc. Not that that, you know, it's an amazing story, but.

48:15Yeah, Giant's unfolding in real time. Right. Which is, you know, also a, I mean, gimmick is the wrong way, but like also a tried and true structure. Okay. And now Best Musical, which, again, is not as exciting as Best Revival, unfortunately. But also sort of like what is going to win? Like, I don't know. All right. So for Best Musical, we only have four shows, which is sad. We have The Lost Boys, book by David Hornsby and Chris Hock, music and lyrics by The Rescues, Schmigadoon, book, music and lyrics by Cinco Paul, Titanic powered by the music of Celine Dion. That's right. Book by Marla Mendel, Constantine, Rizzouli, and Ty Blue, and Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York, book, music and lyrics by Jim Barn and Kit Buchan.

49:01So I would say that this is probably between The Lost Boys and Schmigadoon. Yeah, I think you're right. Just because people, I think, are like, congrats to Tavik that you got all the way here. But it's not a real musical, so. It's a comedy show. It's not a Broadway musical. It's a comedy show. But yeah, so Schmickadoon, it's a very loving parody of musicals. I do feel like musical lovers love parodies of musicals. It is, you know, very specifically sending up Rodgers and Hammerstein and The Music Man. Golden Age musicals, for sure. and if you like those and know them well, then you will have a great time.

49:38But even if you don't love them or know them, I think, no, I really think that you still will love the show. You think the appeal is broad enough? I do. I mean, the people I saw it with did not know half of the things. Really? Yeah. I mean, it's definitely like, as you said, a musical lover's show. But I think that, I don't know, it's wide-ranging enough to appeal to the masses. And my audience was enraptured. I mean, crazy. I thought they were juicing the audience. I was like, everyone's screaming, laughing. I showed up and people were wearing like corn pudding outfits. People were wearing like gingham and like straw hats.

50:14Oh, my God. Does the Lost Boys have that? Because if not, then maybe they're. They do. I will say there's, I think the teen girl contingent, which is a big contingent of, if not Tony voters, but musical fans, have gone head over heels for Lost Boys. Certainly online. Certainly online. They're screaming. I mean, it's also extended all the way to March 2027. Wow, already. Yes, already. So it's like they're selling tickets. It's big. And I think for The Lost Boys, you know, it's based off a movie and whatnot. It's directed by Michael Arden. And while it wasn't my favorite musical, it is really ambitious in terms of like what it's trying to do.

50:46It's set. I mean, it's like you've got the boys flying. Very like practical sets. It's not LED. It's not screens. There's no screens. There's no screens. Which is a big plus. Which is a big plus. Spigadoon also has like old-fashioned style painted backdrops, which is very charming. The vanishing point and the forced perspective and all that. Absolutely. which is really nice because, you know, we're losing that. It feels like we're losing that on Broadway. So I think there are a lot of people that I've talked to in the industry who are like, if we don't vote for Lost Boys, if we don't give them something, like we're going to lose big musicals that are ambitious and like original, you know, even though it's based on IP, but like mostly original.

51:19And people don't necessarily feel that way about Schmigadoon because it was an Apple TV Plus series first. And it is like parodying, you know, better musicals from the past. It doesn't very, I think it does it well, But I think there's a contingent of people who are like, will we ever have like a really ambitious, not like wink, wink, nudge, nudge musical? Well, yeah, we don't have one of those this year. Titanic is also wink, wink, nudge, nudge, nudge. Yeah, it's wink, wink, nudge, nudge, shmigadoon, and two strangers carry a cake across the cake or whatever. One guy talks for 90 minutes. Yes, it's like a student theater production.

51:53I will say also the thing about Schmigadoon that makes it really sing is you have the choreography that is like not a parody. You have like the kicks and the twirls and the partner dances and the Oklahoma of it all. And it is so good that it makes even the wink, wink, nudge, nudge jokes really pop because you're doing the thing. You're not just making fun of the thing. Yeah, there was a dream ballet, you know. Exactly. We have like real, like it's like, and we're losing that on Broadway, like in terms of like these big productions with like, you know, the dancers. And Cinco Paul's songs also. They're great.

52:21They're so fun. Each of them is like a specific pastiche of a specific musical number or like a genre of musical number. But they also stand alone and like, you know, I could hum corn pudding. Exactly. And Sarah Chase and Alex Brightman are so natural. And they have such amazing chemistry. Say what you will about Golden Age musicals. They know how to get you to feel. It's like you hit the beats. Boom. My body just goes. The purest American art form. And whereas The Lost Boys, like Act Two doesn't really know what it's doing. The music is like worship music. that sort of is not memorable. And there's some weird ensemble stuff where they come out in random costumes.

52:57And Schmigadoon, everyone can see. It is for family. Anybody could go see it. So we're coalescing around Schmigadoon. I think so. You've convinced me to jump on the Schmigadoon train for this. Okay. I love it. Before we wrap up, let's talk about the ceremony a little bit. It's going to be hosted by Pink, who has never been on Broadway. But her songs have. But some of her songs have. Yeah, what are you guys looking forward to at the show? Honestly, I think I'm really excited to see what Ragtime does for their performance. I think it's confirmed that all of the best musical nominees and all the best revival of the musical nominees are going to be performing.

53:29I think that's going to be stunning and astonishing. And, like, everybody in Radio City Music Hall will be on their feet applauding. I think it'll be good. I completely agree. I also—that's the one I'm most excited to see as well. I also think it'll be fun to see theater people responding to Schmigadoon in real time. But, yeah, I just want to see Ragtime again and again. So I'm really excited. Get to see them in HD. Yeah, definitely excited for that. And I hear there's a Chicago reunion that's happening on the Tony's. Yeah, something with, I think, Queen Latifah. She wasn't on the stage version.

54:01But she's my matron mama. That's true. There's also a Book of Mormon reunion, which I am less excited about, more curious. Yeah, and they've been put through a lot, that company, because their theater caught on fire and they had to stop shows for like three weeks or two weeks. Yeah, I mean, Book of Mormon is like one of the last big, like recent-ish, original musicals. 15 years on Broadway is nothing to snuff at. More than Hamilton. Pre-Hamilton. But yeah, no, Josh Gad, Andrew Rannells. I mean, these are people who are like still, Nicky M. James, like maybe less, but still people who are out there in, you know, the public eye frequently.

54:36The only thing is that I think that Pink is going to, you know, she can sing very well. She's a great performer. She's a great live performer. I don't think that she's like funny. Yeah. Yeah. And so I just, I think that it's fun when you have a Tony host who can like deliver like a Neil Patrick Harris, like a parody song. Like I still think about the one that he did in 2011 that was co-written by Adam Schlesinger, rest him, rest his soul. That was called Not Just For Gays Anymore. It was so funny. Like the lyrics are so clever and it was so well delivered. And just like Pink is going to do something that's more like, hey, it's Broadway.

55:13Totally. But when did we last have a host who wasn't a Broadway actor? Caitlin, are you going to make me look this up? Because I don't know the answer. You know everything, Hillary. We had Cynthia Rivo last year, many years after she had been on Broadway, when she had sort of jumped over to the film and TV world. And I think Pink takes a page out of her book and relies on the voice, gets comedy writers to write some songs, write some jokes into some songs, and then you sing them really well. I think that's a fine model. I thought Cynthia did great. Yeah, I think so. But in any case, it is such a fun show to watch, even if you don't have any idea what we've been talking about.

55:47You'll love it. You will. Watch the Tonys. Come to New York. Go to Broadway. See a show on tour. Cats at the Winter Garden Theater. Cats, the most magnificent musical experience in the world. Arthur Miller's The Jellicle Ball. Come and see it. Okay. Thank you guys so much for joining. Thank you for hosting a wonderful roundtable. I wish that we could just do a theater podcast. I know. Yeah. We should.

56:11Thank you for tuning in to Little Gold Men. This episode was produced by Grace Rubin and Michelle O 'Brien. Oh my God, double duty. With mixing by Mike Kutchman. We had engineering help today from James Yost. Our executive producer is Stephen Valentino. John and Rebecca will be back next week with three episodes, including their live interview with the stars of Love Story. Don't miss it.

56:37Thank you.

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57:37Thank you.