We Nominate for Oblivion: The TV Trends We’re Ready to Leave Behind

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2:18Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men, vanity affairs podcast for film, TV, and awards lovers. I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. Today, we're going to play a game. It's a round of Nominate for Oblivion TV edition, where we'll each make the case for one TV trend that we think needs to disappear forever. And then after that, we'll discuss what TV trends we're loving and want to see more of. We're also working on another Mailbag episode, and we really want you to send us your questions. It can be about festival season, about the upcoming Oscar season, or anything else on your mind. You send an email to littlegoldmen at vf.com, and we will be doing a mailbag episode in the upcoming month.

3:03But first, we have a little news to discuss. It was a very good weekend for the box office. Spider-Man Brand New Day had an opening of$355 million. That is the second biggest debut in domestic box office history after Avengers Endgame in 2019. John, what do you think of the good news? It's great news. I think after seeing it, I knew it would do well. I mean, we know that the Spider-Man franchise is beloved, but this is really incredible. Yeah, and the Odyssey is now at$911 million worldwide, so it'll go past a billion. And I think Spider-Man will get to a billion as well. And I have a feeling we will be seeing a fifth one.

3:49Yeah, I think it's just so consistent. And what's amazing is, I mean, especially for Tom Holland and Zendaya, is that Spider-Man and The Odyssey combined this weekend led to the biggest collective weekend in box office history, which is like incredible, especially for those two, because that couple is in both movies. But to see this kind of success after years of just being like, oh, my God, the box office is like we're having such a good year. And it's so nice to have good news. Yeah, we're having a good year for some people. It's not so great if you're in the DC world. And then also last week, there was a New York Times article that was reporting on the struggle to make the Barbie sequel.

4:33If you're wondering what's going on with the Barbie sequel, this movie made$1.5 billion. You would think you would have heard about sequel plans by now. What the article is reporting is that Greta Gerwig, Margot Robbie, and Ryan Gosling are all negotiating their deals with Warner Brothers, and they just, like, can't come to a deal. And they have until December of this year, and then the rights revert back to Mattel. So there is actually, like, a ticking clock to get this done. This will be a pretty big story come, like, November and December if it doesn't get done. Yeah, the New York Times report said Greta and her partner Noah Baumbach wrote the screenplay for the first one and apparently have an idea for the second one.

5:21It's just about getting these contracts done. And like these actors and Greta have a lot of leverage. I mean, that movie was way beyond expectations. So if I were Warner Brothers, I'd just give them the money. But, you know, Warner Brothers is also going through this very intense pending change with the merger. So I think there's just a lot happening right now. But I think it's going to get done by December. I think it's just going to be a lot of, you know, trying to get more money on the actors part. Just give it to them. I want the sequel. What are we doing here? You're going to go into merging with Paramount without a Barbie sequel on your slate?

5:59Right. Just do it.

6:06Okay, let's get into some TV trends. Joining us today is Features Editor and Little Gold Men BFF, Hilary Busis. Hi, Hilary. Welcome back. It's so thoughtful of you to make an episode about complaining and know that I am the proper third voice for that episode. You were the first person we called. Well, you're the keeper of Nominate for Oblivion in the magazine, and you write incredible columns about things that annoy you and many of us here at VF. Yes. Should we explain the concept of Nominate for Oblivion? Please do. Please do. So a long time ago in Vanity Fair in the jazz age, there was this feature that would appear called We Nominate for Oblivion.

6:47It's basically the opposite of a letter of recommendation. It's a rant about something that the writer doesn't like, and we revitalized the franchise last year, and I have become the prime complainer, the complainer-in-chief, I guess, at VF. And can you just tell us some of the things that you've nominated for Oblivion in your column? Yes. So the first one I wrote was about the term Nepo baby. It's not the concept of the Nepo baby. It's the term because people do not use it correctly. You can only be a Nepo baby in Hollywood if your parents are in Hollywood, if they are famous. So there's that.

7:26I did Mercury and retrograde. I am not a believer in astrology. Big surprise. I pitched one on picnics that was not chosen for the summer issue, but I do not like picnics either. And, Harry, when is your birthday? It's not important, John. But yeah, so I did that. I did cruises. That I can co-sign. Yes. Yes. Well, so we're taking that concept and we're using it for television in this episode. So we've each picked a sort of TV trend that we're not a fan of and we're going to discuss them. So, Hilary, I think we should start with you. You want to tell us what trend you picked? Okay. My Nominate for Oblivion TV edition is the airport novel Adaptation, which is a television play that we can track basically back to Big Little Lies, which was an enormous hit for HBO when it premiered in 2017.

8:24It's based on a book by Leanne Moriarty. it's this great lightning strikes project where you have all these giant actors you have Nicole Kidman you have Reese Witherspoon and Laura Dern and they're on TV at a time when it's still you know big actors make TV shows at this point in time in 2017 but not maybe to the degree that these A-listers do and so you have an A-list cast you have this really juicy novel with a murder plot. It's set in this beautiful, coastal, very rich town. So there's wealth and there's death and there's big names. And it's very popular and it's really well done. And it's put together by Jean-Marc Vallée, who is this auteur.

9:11He has this very specific vision for it. And that also kind of elevates the whole thing. It's got a camp aspect to it as well as just being a really well-done mystery. And then it inspires a lot of imitations. none of which kind of live up to the original. Not even the second season of Big Little Lies could live up to the original. And the problem is you can't capture that lightning again, which has not stopped TV networks and streamers from trying. But, I mean, if we just give a rundown, there's like 20 shows in the past 10 years that have tried to be Big Little Lies, probably more. Many of them star Nicole Kidman again.

9:49Yeah, this is like Nicole Kidman's bread and butter now. She cannot stop making this show. And it's just diminishing returns. And it's just a bummer because I wish that we could try something new rather than find a book, find some A-listers, make a mystery about there being a dead body. And we don't necessarily know who it is or how they died. But we're going to tell you at the very beginning of the show that somebody is dead. And then we're going to gradually reveal how that happened. Like all of them follow the exact same formula. And it's just boring. That's my take. I'm torn about this, Hillary, because I agree that there are too many and many of them are bad.

10:24It's not even necessarily that they're bad. It's just that they're predictable and they're so similar. But sometimes that's all you want. Like I've watched all her fault from the past year and I was like, all right, I know this formula, but it feels comforting to kind of know it and watch someone like Sarah Snook do a great performance within a show that is basic at this point. but just like the cliffhanger at the end of each episode. And I don't know. I feel like I could write one. Yeah, you could. I have to tell you, so Five Star Weekend, which is the Jennifer Garner, like women in Nantucket bonding.

11:02I think her husband died. I mean, it's a beat treat. When I saw that trailer on Peacock with ads, which congratulations to me this weekend, I finally transferred to the no ads version. I thought it was an SNL parody. Like I genuinely was like, oh, they're doing some sort of like out of the box stuff like at Peacock where they're putting like maybe an SNL skit into Peacock. Like at one point there's a line where she's like, you know what I want to do? A girl's pajama pizza party. And I was like, oh, it's like SNL. Like it seems so extreme. And I was like, this will go softly into the night. It's like a huge hit, right?

11:45Yeah. That's the thing. People want this. Yeah. And that's why they will keep making them. I mean, there are, there have been more successful versions. There have been less successful versions. Like Sharp Objects followed Big Little Lies on HBO, and that starred Amy Adams and Patricia Clarkson, and that was a great big hit. And it got nominated for a lot of Emmys. Yeah. Then HBO did The Undoing, which is another Nicole Kidman one, and that was not as successful. That's where we started to get a little, yeah. That was The Undoing of this. That is, yeah. It's a wobblier entry. The central mystery is, did Hugh Grant murder that girl?

12:21And the answer is like, yeah, he did. There is no mystery. Nine Perfect Strangers is another one where like, I mean, they're all Nicole Kidman. Yes. I'm not exaggerating. She does like one of these every year. She does. And it's interesting because it's a genre of film that maybe used to exist in the 90s that they don't make anymore. that has moved to television limited series. Yeah, and instead of getting like a taut, like 110-minute thriller, you get this bloated thing that's nine episodes long. And yeah, it is hard to sustain, and so you have to have a bunch of subplots, and like each character has to be dealing with like one specific problem.

13:05And it's formulaic, and especially like a lot of these, the mystery does not wind up being enough to sustain that long of a show. I had a very terrible experience watching Imperfect Women, which also came out this past year. And I feel like it was exactly what you're describing. Just like, we're going to make this because we know ladies like this. And we're just not going to try very hard. Not just ladies. Sorry. Amen too, please. That's true. Don't exclude anybody. But, you know, and it was Kerry Washington and Elizabeth Moss. Like, it's people that we like and that we want to succeed. We want them to make good work.

13:42Right, but it was so bad. It's so paint-by-numbers. I think if they can make one a year, that's really good. Yeah. Yeah, they should let us decide which one it is. Elin Hildebrand is kind of the author now that they're mining the most because of The Perfect Couple, another Nicole Kidman, on Netflix, which was a big success. It's going to get a second season based on a different one of her novels. And this, I mean, Elin Hildebrand has written— 600 ,000 books, right? Yes. So there's a lot. There's a lot there. Somehow they're all on Nantucket. Yeah, well, she was the writer of Five Star Weekend.

14:18Oh, my God. Yes. OK. So she is she's the Colleen Hoover of TV now. All right, Hilary, you have us off to a strong start here. We're going to take a quick break. And when we get back, John will bravely make the case against one of television's most popular genres. Stick around.

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17:01Welcome back to Little Gold Men. All right, John, what TV trend are you nominating for Oblivion? This is hard for me because I love this trend and am an active watcher, but I have to, you know, recognize fault in myself and realize things have gotten out of hand. And that is the fictionalized true crime miniseries. A cousin to, I feel like a cousin to mine, but yours is the true life aspect is a big part of yours. What has happened in the past five years? I mean, the time between the crime occurring and a miniseries of the crime airing has just gotten shorter and shorter and shorter. And I feel like we have lost, like, any perspective.

17:51It's like we're just watching somebody do a live reading of the true crime documentary that was on three months ago. So like, I'm very concerned about this upcoming Netflix series, The Altruists, which is based on Sam Bankman-Fried, who is the guy who created FTX, which was a cryptocurrency exchange. He was like this liberal, like, lighthouse. And then it turned out it was actually a big scheme in a way. and he was borrowing money from one company to pay off another company in his portfolio and they were committing all different sorts of fraud. And there's this love triangle and it's like a really fun, fascinating story and I want there to be a miniseries about this.

18:46I do. But I just don't know if there's enough of a point of view yet. I felt similarly about The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox. Yeah. That one starred Grace Van Patten, and Amanda Knox was a producer on it. And it just, there's been the documentary about Amanda Knox. I mean, we've talked about Amanda Knox for however long. How long has it, like 15 years? And I was watching it, and I was like, this has nothing new to add Other than like Amanda Knox like really is like wants to make sure everyone understands that she was innocent, which is true. Like, yeah, she was innocent. She had nothing to do with this.

19:31But we didn't really like move the narrative forward. And we're seeing that like more and more. There was the Good American Family, which was the Ellen Pompeo starring version of the Natalia Grace story, which had just had like a 62-part documentary on HBO. I mean, they kept adding stuff. There was the Staircase documentary and the dramatized version of the Staircase. Oh, and then the original Staircase made more episodes. The Staircase documentary is the greatest of the true crime documentaries. of all time. It's 100 ,000 parts because they kept adding to it. It's spectacular. The fictionalized version with Colin Firth, Tony Collette, and the Antonio Campos like helmed mini series, limited series, I actually thought was fantastic.

20:28And the reason why is because I think he had a point of view, which was here's this perfect American family with this beautiful house, which is how sort of the story of the documentary opens. And then it's like, you pull that string and everything, you know, falls apart. And so I actually think that that version had a real point of view. I also think like the dropout, the Liz Meriwether, Amanda Seyfried take on Elizabeth Holmes was really, really good because I think she had a real point of view about sort of gender bias in tech and like our need to want to believe in stories, even if like in the back of our head, we're like, you can't show us the box like ever, you know?

21:19And I also think Amanda was fantastic. I think she was so good that there was a competing version that Jennifer Lawrence was going to do with Adam McKay that seems to be dead because there was an interview where Jennifer Lawrence was like, listen. Yeah, where she was like, Amanda did that and it was so good. Yeah, she was like, I just watched it and I was like, that's it. That year, 2022, was like, we crashed, super pumped, which was about Uber. Yeah. It was like, guys, you can't release all of these at the same time because only one will survive and it ended up being the dropout. But I think that's a perfect example.

21:53So, John, I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense. You're saying that there are standouts because they have a point of view and they really make a case for themselves. And then you have everything else where there are so many of them that just seem to kind of exist in order to, I don't know, just remind us of a crime and don't necessarily have much to add. But then I'm, I mean, listen, I am so part of the problem because I love this shit. There's just no other way to describe it. I love true crime documentaries. Like, we're not talking the high-end ones. Like, I get into, you know, things on Netflix that are not on your first panel.

22:30like things where you're like scrolling down, down, down, down, down. That SNL sketch where it's like, I'm going to watch my murder show. Like that's you. That's about you. Absolutely. Okay. But I just think in general when they're green lighting this stuff, they have to really think like what is our point of view? Like what are we trying to say about this story that you heard about maybe just four months ago? and if there isn't one or if it's just because an actor is like I want to play that part it's not enough so I have like a reluctant nominate for Oblivion because you know I am part of the problem okay so Rebecca would you like to share with the group?

23:19Yes I feel like you guys took the easier ones here How dare you? So I thought about this for a while, and I think I'm going to go with turning movies into television shows, which is pretty broad. But I was sitting around watching, I don't know, something, and an ad came up for the new Blade Runner show that's going to star Michelle Yeoh and Hunter Schaefer. And I was like, I don't need it. I don't need it. And it just got me thinking about how it feels like such a cash grab when the studios take a beloved movie and decide we need to see a show about it. The most upsetting to me of recent memory was Cruel Intentions, which is a film I and many, many people deeply love.

24:07And they made a show that was just like, Amazon made a show that was so bad in 2024. It didn't capture the magic of the movie. And I think that's what happens with a lot of these shows is they don't capture what we all loved about the movie. And then you just have this bloated series or miniseries that's going on and on and is hoping to get the fans of the film, or maybe new fans, but I think mostly the fans of the film. And it just rarely works. There are obvious exceptions, but I just feel like it's a little bit too manipulative of a strategy because they're just banking on people showing up because they loved a movie from 15 years ago.

24:52Yeah, I mean, and so much of the time, too, the show has no reason to exist beyond that. Like, Prime Video, Amazon premiered a Legally Blonde prequel this summer, which by all accounts is pretty good. And the main actress, you know, does a pretty good Elle Woods. But it's like, if Elle Woods had a year of growth and, like, changing from being shallow to being deeper when she was a teenager, then why would anything Legally Blonde have happened? She just forgot all that? and then went to college and then went to law school and had the exact same arc. Like, you can't just do that story twice. I don't know why they didn't just say, like, it's not really connected.

25:32But the connection to the movie is the only reason that the show exists. You can't just write a different show about a different girl who's kind of like that. I don't have the answer. It's like Elle's sister. It's Nell Woods. I mean, they're redoing Carrie again. Yeah. They're doing it as a TV series. And there's been so many remakes of the movie in the first place. It's like why we needed show already. And the news about the new Clueless also bums me out. Yeah. That's the other thing, Rebecca. It's like some of it, it's like you're taking these great movies. You're messing with their legacy. Yeah, you're watering them down.

26:05And it's like, it's impossible to recreate. I mean, there are some shows that have successfully done the movie to TV transition that kind of make a case for their existence. Like, I was not one of them because I found it so disgusting. But Hannibal, the NBC show that had Mads Mikkelsen as Hannibal Lecter, that has a lot of fans. There were people who loved that show. Yeah, it does. I really actually liked Mr. and Mrs. Smith, you know, with Donald Glover and Maya Erskine that came out. It helps that that wasn't like such an iconic beloved movie. And it was a pretty loose adaptation. Yeah, it was a similar premise.

26:37It wasn't messing with the legacy of the original, which I think is where I get especially annoyed, you know, about this. Well, the legacy of the original now is like a terrible, sad divorce. that's fair that's fair but that one also worked because it was episodic and it was you know it seemed to understand what television is which is that each episode should be a self contained story and like there were guest stars in each one and they had their own arc and like there was a serialized aspect to it but that was not the entire show and that's the other thing about stretching out a movie plot over all of these episodes is that often you get filler because a movie is two hours for a reason because that's what the story is.

27:15Right. Now, here's my question, though, to do a temperature check to see if you're part of the problem. Rebecca, will you be watching Blade Runner 2099? I will check it out because it's Michelle Yeoh and I would follow her anywhere, but I don't feel excited. But I, you know, we watch so much. We watch everything. We have to. But yeah, I think we just need to just stop it. Just leave the movies alone and make shows that work as shows. Well, so many of the problems with TV are, you know, I think that people kind of got high on the supply of like cinematic storytelling for television during the prestige TV era.