Which of These Awards Shows Actually Matter?

0:04Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's podcast for film, TV and awards lovers. I'm Rebecca Ford. And I'm John Ross. Rebecca, how was your trip to Savannah? It was good. Was that your Southern accent? It's my Southern accent. Oh, gosh. I was shocked to be surrounded by Southern accents because I'm so rarely around them, but I loved that town. I'd never been before. Great shopping, beautiful walking, amazing trees, just like such a gorgeous place. Wait, wait, wait. Tell them why you were there. Oh, yes. The SCAD Savannah Film Festival invited me to moderate a couple things. So I moderated John M.

0:44Chu's Tribute, which was sort of like a career award for him, but very focused on Wicked for Good. And then I also spoke to Zoe Deutsch after screening of Nouvelle Vogue. So I didn't know, John, that the audiences were like 80 % students from the school. So it's like when When John walked out, it was like he was walking out at a concert. I mean, they're like screaming. It's a higher pitch than I'm used to. Yeah. And the energy is so fun. Did he stay and talk to every single student? He did. And then he did a master class separately with the film students. They get a lot of time with them. It's pretty incredible.

1:21Yeah, it is. And I think one of the reasons why it's successful, that festival, is that the directors and the people that go feel like it's a nice thing. You know, it feels a little less thirsty. Yeah, and a little less stuffy. And it feels like, oh, well, this is like a nice thing to do with these aspiring artists. Yes, I highly recommend that film festival if anyone lives nearby or can come up from Atlanta because it's just such a treat. And I was only there for four days, but it was really great. Yeah, and they get a really robust program. Yes. And then this is just a fun piece of trivia. But Amy Madigan, Aunt Gladys from Weapons, is currently listed as number six on the star meter on IMDb Pro, which is a testament to how many people watched Weapons this weekend on HBO Max.

2:19and a testament, I think, also to like the fervor around that character and that performance. Two years ago, if you told Amy Madigan, hey, you're going to be one of the most searched stars on the internet in two years and possibly be entering into like a franchise film series with Warner Brothers, she'd be like, you're crazy, right? So it goes to show you, like, you never know what's going to happen in this town. You never know what's going to happen in your career. Because I do think now, like, she has a real shot at an Oscar nomination. I think she really is going to be in the conversation. I wasn't a believer that that was going to happen, you know, because I just heard it from a couple pundits.

3:07But now I feel like lots of people want to talk to me about Amy Madigan. So I think you're right. I think it's really got a surge feeling behind it. Just like a piece of good news because the rest of this podcast I might be getting a little bit negative Nancy. A little bit more cynical. Well, this week we're really getting into the swing of awards season and I'm excited for it. On Tuesday we got the nominees for the Gotham Awards so we're going to discuss a little bit about what surprised us about those and how much they may or may not mean for the rest of the season. Right. And the Gotham Awards are the first sort of big kickoff in a long series of ceremony and prizes leading up to the Oscars.

3:49We're going to talk about all the various different award shows that you're going to see from November to February and sort of rank them in importance as it relates to getting that Oscar nomination and possibly the win. And finally, we're going to share our picks for your must-watch movies for November.

4:17Joining us today is Vanity Fair staff writer and friend of the show, Chris Murphy. Chris, thank you so much for being here. Thanks so much for having me back. All right, let's jump off with the Gotham Award nominations. I wrote them up for our site. And I think the big headline, which was my headline, is that one battle after another set a record with six nominations. I know six doesn't sound like a lot, but it is a lot for the Gotham Awards. Can you explain, which I know last year the Gotham's changed, I thought one battle after another would maybe still be too big for this award. Yes, it used to be a$35 million cap, but now that's gone.

4:55So anything is game. But, you know, I know what you mean, even if there are no rules, Chris. Even if it is, yeah, open, it still feels like it's such a big studio movie. that, you know, it's like if Avatar were nominated for a Gotham, I'd be like, well, that is interesting. But still, the Gothams have an indie sensibility, so we can see from the nominations. Yes, the nominations are voted on by critics. So this, I think, gives us the best view of, like, what the critics may be giving awards to down the line. I'm not surprised that One Battle did very well here because we know critics go gaga over that movie.

5:33They also opened the best picture category up from five nominees to 10, which made a lot of room for a lot of the sort of awards frontrunners to be included this year. Sometimes it looks like a kind of a crazy hodgepodge when it was five, because it's like two big contenders and three films you've never heard of. So now it's more like eight films that are contenders and two you've never heard of. So I think that was a smart move on their part. Yeah. Uh-oh, Negative Nancy's entering the chat. the Gotham Awards feel a little like what is this I mean the other film that really performed I guess big was If I Had Legs I Would Kick You which is the polar opposite of One Battle this is a small small indie out of Sundance that A24 bought we've talked about it on the pod a lot we like it but it is very hard to sort of put those two against each other.

6:36And it feels like the Gotham Awards are a little shapeless and formless then because you're like, okay, well, why not, you know, Superman? Why not Superman? It just, if you really look at like what happens post the Gotham Awards, they don't have a lot of influence over the Guild nominations and ultimately the Oscar nominations, which is fine. I don't think that everything has to be all about that, but it does feel kind of confusing. Well, it's funny that you say that in terms of its impact on the awards race, because I went to the Gotham Awards last year and I wrote it up for Vanity Fair. And it was a really big night for two films that got a lot of buzz that didn't really go super far in the Oscar race.

7:29You had Sing Sing, which won best leading performance because they're gender neutral, best leading performance for Coleman Domingo and best supporting performance for Clarence Macklin. And they both gave fantastic speeches and there's so much buzz in the room for Sing Sing. And then really only Coleman went the whole way with that campaign by the time we got to the Oscars. And then the winner of the best feature was a different man. And that also didn't make it super far in the awards race last year. So while it's a great platform for generating buzz, it doesn't necessarily lead to sustained award season chances.

8:07It's true. I think the best thing the Gotham Awards can do is give a boost to movies that feel like they're small or they might be falling off of the list already. And it can do that. Like, I do remember when A Different Man won. We had conversations about, like, oh, is this going to be a contender? You know, because it had been a hard year. Sebastian Stan had two films and ended up not making it, but it got a few weeks of momentum out of that. So I think that's sort of the interesting thing to watch with the Gotham Awards. The other weird thing about the Gotham Awards is that it's very hard to find a through line.

8:41Like, Begonia can get Best Feature, but then none of the actors are nominated. Yeah, I was noticing that for snubs. And Begonia is really basically an actor-driven project. So it is kind of hard to reconcile those two. And the reason why that happens is they have different jury members for different categories. and I don't know, what are your guys' thoughts on lumping together the actor and actress into one lead performance? Do you think that that is successful or do you think that takes away two people potentially getting some lift when they actually get up on the stage and win? I mean, I think it's super exciting and fun and where many award shows should be headed.

9:28I do totally agree that it would be nice to correct for John what you said in terms of like less people are getting awards, which makes it a little bit less exciting. But like, not to harp on last year, but when Clarence and Coleman won, I mean, it was like electric because nobody, you have no idea. It's such a, I think what the Gothams do really well is the acting noms. It's such a range of people you've heard of. I mean, this year you've got Jennifer Lawrence and Amanda Seyfried, right? Huge, huge stars next to actors that I heretofore am not super familiar with. Like, I think it adds to the excitement.

10:05Yeah, I like it too. And then they also have the breakthrough performance category. So there is another acting award given and A$AP Rocky's in that group, Chase Infinity. Well deserved. Yeah, that's an exciting group too. I do want to note, this is our first time seeing Alexander Skarsgård and his papa, Tonell and Skarsgård, in the same category competing against each other. Yes, Nepo Dad. I think that's one of the most sort of fun, funny things about this season. Before we move on, I will say, gotta shout out my beloved Blue Moon. Happy to see Ethan Hawke and Andrew Scott in there. They deliver such great performances and it's a very small movie, made in a lab for me, about opening night of Oklahoma that I encourage everyone to see, where Ethan Hawke plays Lorenz Hart and Andrew Scott plays Richard Rodgers right after they've sort of broken up professionally.

10:53I think that's exactly the kind of performance that could get a boost here from this kind of nomination, and remind people that it is worth seeing. And as we've mentioned earlier, the Gothams is just the first in a long list of awards that will be coming up before the Oscars. But which one of them actually makes a difference when it comes to winning the top prize? We'll break it all down after this quick break.

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12:45Welcome back to Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair. So we've talked a lot about the movie so far, but I think it's time to start focusing in on all these awards shows that are about to happen, whether that's film festival awards, Critics' Choice Awards, Golden Globes, SAG, there's just so many, and do they even matter? Yes, there are so many, and we're here to sort of help guide everyone in understanding what they all mean. So we're sort of going to divide them up, I think, into different categories and what we think are the most important for Academy Award nominations and then what maybe are more influential to getting your movie scene but doesn't totally translate to the Academy.

13:28For me, I mean, I think it's pretty obvious. The most important set of awards are the Guild Awards, which are like the SAG Awards, the Producers Guild Awards, the DGA Awards, those come very late in the season. And that's when everybody changes their predictions and pretends that they knew everything all along. And the reason why those are obviously the most important awards is because the Guild members overlap most closely with the Academy members. But Rebecca, But what do you think then after that sort of is the most helpful in forming the race and the narrative? Yeah, I mean, I agree. I think PJ remains the most important of any of these, but it does come super late.

14:16They've got to write the last five years straight. And I remember when last year, Sean Baker won DJ and PJ literally back to back on the same night. And you were like, well, this is over, you know. So those are the most important. And then it gets really tough. I think the things with the Critics Awards, New York Film Critics Circle, L.A. Film Critics, is that I feel like critics want to do something surprising. They don't want to go with the frontrunner a lot of the time, and they want to maybe give something a boost or do something that feels like a more whimsical choice. So I don't think we can trust those when it comes to predictions.

14:54I think those are to help films that maybe were lacking momentum at the time. Yeah, I think that it ranges also between the various different critics' bodies. I find sort of the L.A. critics to be a little bit more aligned with what will end up happening with the Guilds and Academy. And then some of the other ones, the New York film critics. And I remember when they gave Tiffany Haddish, supporting actress, and she gave that spectacular speech. Carol Kane last year. Yeah, they do stuff like that. And I think that that's cool. But in terms of like, if you're hawkishly watching how it's going to affect your nomination, I don't know.

15:41Chris, is there any group that you feel like you pay attention to? I don't know how you feel about Globes or SAG or... Yeah, I mean, I do think SAG is sort of the secret one to watch. Ever since Jessica Chastain pulled through in the eyes of Tammy Faye here, and she won the SAG Award, it was a very, you know, there was Penelope Cruz, there was Jessica, there were a lot of, it was very split. I was like, oh, SAG is really one to watch, because the actors are such a big voting block. I mean, they're the biggest branch of the Academy. And like last year with Wicked, when Jonathan Bailey got in there, and we saw that, oh, it's like they actually are taking this movie seriously and then end up getting 10 nominations.

16:18I definitely look to SAG for some answers as tea leaves when things are a little murky or unclear. And the Globes, it's just I love the sort of like let them all in there vibe. The drunk uncle vibe of the Globes. The drunk uncle vibe of the Globes. But if I'm paying attention, if I'm looking at anything super closely, I would guess it would be SAG for me. Yeah, I think you're totally right. I think, you know, the biggest voting body of the Academy is the acting branch. So, of course, that really does matter. and I remember when Timmy Wonsaga or Timothy Chalamet, sorry, we're on a short nickname basis here.

16:54You're so close. Well, you are a clutch, Chalamet, of course. But he, I thought, oh my God, he could take this and that keeps the race exciting. But yes, I agree. They are often one that's worth watching. We will be talking about all these nominations and wins as they happen throughout the season on the way to the Oscars. I love it all because I do think it adds a little bit of drama to the race. so I think we'll leave it here for now and when we come back from the break we're going to talk about our recommendations for the best movies hitting theaters in November stay with us

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18:14Welcome back to Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair. November is right around the corner somehow, and it's going to be another busy month for films. There's lots of good stuff coming, so I thought we could make some November picks. Chris, you want to start us out as our guest of the week? Yeah, I would love to. Thank you so much. My pick is a movie you've definitely heard about if you listen to this podcast, and that is Sentimental Value by Joachim Trier. I loved his film Worst Person in the World a few years ago and this is such a confident follow-up to that. It's an entirely different thing. Worst Person in the World is a coming-of-age story, you know, and really exciting and whatnot and Sentimental Value is smaller in scope in some ways but also larger.

18:58It's a family drama and it goes over, you know, decades and decades with really beautiful performances by Renata Reinsver and Stellan Skarsgård and Elle Fanning and Inga Itzbarer-Lelias, who is nominated for a Gotham, we should say. And it makes like an intimate family drama that is really sort of beautiful and sad with like actual great critique and satire of the entertainment industry and how things work. I got to shout out my friend, Catherine Cohen is in it, and she plays Elle Fanning's publicist. and it's just great skewering of Hollywood that winds up without sacrificing anything, ending on like a really sort of hopeful and wonderful note that is not a spoiler, that is just something that is true.

19:40So yeah, I really recommend seeing it if you haven't. And see it in theaters because it's a slower movie. It's not, you know, it's not one battle after another. So I think it benefits from sitting with it like in real time and not like, you know, on VOD or, you know, when it hits streaming or whatever. So yeah, I'm a sentimental value stan. I love that movie. I think you're describing it exactly right. It's so intimate. It feels like every scene is perfect. Every choice the director makes is the right one. And the actors, I just, it's so well done. And for being kind of quiet in a way, it leaves you with a lot of big feelings.

20:16So it's a great one. And Renata gives a beautiful performance in the movie. Yeah, so that comes out, begins hitting theaters November 7th and will increase in its theaters throughout the month, I think. So that's definitely worth catching. I'm going to pick, I had a hard time picking. There's a lot of movies I love coming out this month, but I'm going to go with Jay Kelly because it's hitting some theaters November 14th. And I loved this movie when I saw it. I saw it quite a while ago, and I think I've mentioned that it's maybe Noah Baumbach's most sentimental movie, but I loved that. And it is another, there's a lot of daddy issues movies this season.

20:50And it is, you know, it's about George Clooney is playing an actor who's kind of looking back on his career and the way he sacrificed his relationship with his daughter specifically. But it is a lot about show business. There's an incredible performance by Laura Dern. But Adam Sandler is really great as the lifelong manager of George's actor character. And they go on this journey through Italy. And I just found it such a wonderful watch. So I think if you can find it in a theater, you should. But if not, it's out on Netflix December 5th. So my friend called me the other day and she was like, I'm listening to you on your podcast.

21:27You know, you cheat every single time you do like any of these lists. You're always like, actually, I'm going to do two. Actually, and now I'm doing it again. I'm going to do one Die My Love, which is being released on Friday, November 7th by Mubi. And this movie is complicated. It's about the disillusion of a marriage and it's not very straightforward. It's directed by Lynn Ramsey. People either really like it or really don't like it. I actually think it kind of stayed with me. There's some visuals that are really striking and it is fun to see Jennifer Lawrence do like heavy drama and be super intense.

22:16and then the other one is The Secret Agent which is being released limited at the end of November and then will go wider. The film takes place during the 70s in Brazil during the military dictatorship and it follows Wagner Mora who I do think has a really good shot of getting a Best Actor nomination and he seeks refuge in this small town that he thinks is going to be separate from what's going on politically in the country. And then he finds out that that's not the case. A lot happens in this movie. It is long. It's like two hours and 30 minutes plus, but it is a heavily plotted movie. And then a director, Cleber Mendoza-Filo won best director in Cannes.

23:08and it is really a ride and it's something to see in theaters for sure. Well, John, since you picked two, I'm going to wrap us up with one more sort of obvious pick. Because I'm cheat. But this is a movie that doesn't need our help, but we have all seen Wicked for Good and after being with John Chu and Savannah, I have seen how passionate people are and I was nervous because the second film is darker and harder to adapt. And he lands the plane. I think he really gives you a very emotional, satisfying ending to this epic that they've been working on for, I don't know what, five years or something?

23:48For five years, yeah. Yeah. I had no idea that there was a second Wicket.

23:55There's been no promotion about it at all. Yeah, thank God. We're sort of announcing it to the world here. Well, lots of good stuff to catch in November. I hope it makes you all very excited for the month to come. And Chris, I just want to give you a quick thank you for joining us again today. Thanks for having me.

24:15Thanks for tuning in to Little Gold Men. We'll be back next Thursday with a conversation about all of the year's films with political themes and how current events can influence their reception and awards chances. As always, if you have a question you'd like us to answer in the podcast, please feel free to send an email or voice note to littlegoldmen at vf.com. We love to get your questions in our mailbox, so please send them in anytime. And if you're enjoying our show, please write us a review. Little Gold Men is produced by Hibba El-Urbani with editing by Michelle O 'Brien, engineering by Pran Bandy, and mixing by Amar Lal.

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