Finding Purpose at Work With Greg Kettner

0:03Thank you for joining us for episode 546 of Live Happy Now. Most of us spend about one-third of our lives working, which means making sure you love what you do is pretty important. And this week's guest is here to tell us how to make that happen. I'm your host, Paula Phelps, and this week I'm joined by Greg Kettner, a speaker and workplace expert who is here to talk about why so many people are unhappy at work and how finding a job that provides purpose, not just a paycheck, can change the way you work. Let's have a listen. Greg, thank you for coming back on Live Happy Now. You are welcome, Paula.

0:39Thanks so much for having me. It's good to hear your voice. Oh, it's always good to sit down and talk to you. You always have great things to talk about. So the reason I wanted to have you on the show today is there's so much out there about unhappiness at work, and it just seems to be more and more widespread. And, you know, it's a big topic, which is why we have such great sitcoms, you know, things like The Office that show just how miserable people are at work. And this is really your area of expertise. So based on what you've seen, what do you consider the main driver of unhappiness in the workplace?

1:12You know what? The deeper I get on this, Paul, and I think you'll agree with me, it's just lack of communication, right? We're tasked to do more with less. We have AI coming at us. We're threatened by that. You know, times are tougher, however you view the world, and people are just like, okay, somebody else can pick up the slack. I think it's just lack. It boils down to miscommunication or no communication at all, right? And that leads into lack of trust. and you and everybody listening has left jobs not because of the job but because of the manager so i think you know a lot of it is just non-communication that leads to people feeling like they don't belong that they don't matter and a recent study suggested that people would rather have that sense of meaning that purpose that feeling that they are valued and their voice matters than a ten thousand dollar raise which is completely the opposite of what we thought, right?

2:06You go to college and you're like, all right, I got to get this job. I got to move up the ladder. I got to make money and get a mortgage, blah, blah, blah. But people are now realizing that we spend more than a third of our time at work and we're humans and we can only take so much. I've had friends who would try to, I won't say force, try to direct their children into a certain career position. I had some friends in Texas who the father was an engineer. The older son went into engineering and they tried to get their younger son. They got him into engineering school and nobody that knew Lance thought this was a good idea.

2:40Smart guy, but he basically flunked out on purpose so that he could turn around and go to art school. And now he's a filmmaker, you know, and it's like, they were, I remember that time because they were so disappointed that he wouldn't follow engineering. They're like, he's never going to make the good money. He's never going to have a good career. And they didn't really understand the need for following his passion. And I know that is something you are such a big believer in. Before we dive into that, tell us a little bit about your career, because you really walk your talk in terms of finding something you're passionate about, finding your purpose and making a living out of it.

3:18Yeah, for sure. So I grew up middle class, Canada, middle class family. Dad was a doctor. Mom stayed at home and raised us until we were out of the house. And, you know, like you were saying, growing up, it was like, okay, you finish high school, you do college. With my dad being a doctor, my mom being a nurse, that was kind of, it wasn't for us, but we're just like, okay, well, I'm going to go. And then I didn't like the side of blood. So I'm like, I'm not going to do medical school. But, you know, it does kind of come with it, does it? Right. But my brother's a psychologist. He teaches at University of Victoria.

3:51My sister's a principal, you know, early education. And I'm a speaker. But it's interesting. and that we're all serving our communities. And that's our passion, right? We all make a different amount of money between my brother and my sister and I, but that's never the conversation. That's when we get together for Christmas or holidays, it's not like, oh, look at your house, look at my house. It's like, what are you doing? How are you making the world a better place? And to me, the older I get, it's more about passion. Starting out, I was in sales. I wanted to work for Nike. I got disillusioned with the child labor and just the way things were done.

4:29I'm like, this isn't right. And so I went to the NHL, sold hockey tickets and sponsorships, worked in Major League Soccer and then did some startups. And I was usually happy. I mean, I had some great managers. I had some bad managers. But when I got married, oh, I forgot, Paula. You know, I did stand-up comedy for eight years. Oh, you were doing these other things. Yeah, yeah. I was doing it part-time, but I really loved it. And that was my passion. I got up one night on a dare. I don't know, Mike and people laughed. And that made me feel so good. I'm like, oh, my word, I just walked into a front of a bunch of strangers.

5:08And now we're laughing and having a good time. And so I did that for eight years. It took me eight years to figure out like money more than the stand up. but I think you know everything leads to something else when I was on tour I ran into an old college friend we reconnected and we've been married for almost 10 years so things happen for a reason and during COVID I lost my job I was told I was no longer essential and I told my boss well I think you're no longer essential and that went over really well yeah he's like well I signed the paychecks. I'm like, oh, you went. And so I didn't know what to do.

5:42I felt lost here, you know, married for a couple of years and all of a sudden we're down to one income going into COVID and I didn't know what I was going to do. So I kind of lost my identity a bit. And then my wife and I were, you know, talking one night and she said, well, what do you really want to do? Like, you're always happy. You love doing standup comedy. Would you want to go back and do standup? And I said, kind of appealing, but it's not good for a marriage or the bank account. And she said, well, why don't you go and help other people work happy? And I was like, yeah, that's it. And then I just kind of cobbled together.

6:17And now Work Happy has shared the message with over 10 ,000 people. We're well on our way to 100 ,000 and then to a million. But the older I've gotten and the more mature through marriage and therapy, the purpose is what keeps me going every day. And I still remember I was flying to Vegas of all places and I picked up Simon Sinek's book, Find Your Why. And I read through that and I was like, okay, this is it. And not every day is a work happy day. I mean, a contract might go sideways or, you know, somebody else might get the speaking gig versus me or something might happen in personal life or family or friends.

6:56but what I've learned through all this and what I love sharing with people is how to restart my day because I'm believing that happiness is not the goal it's happier which is a small change but I can be happy today but what happens like my dad passed away a year and a half ago that wasn't a happy day but I chose the next day to be happier and we sat around and we talked about all the memories of dad same thing with happiness if my goal is to get happy and all of a sudden I hit my happiness goal, where do I go from there? You can only go down. So happiness to me or happier is more fluctuating your ups and your downs, but having that ability to look on the positives, you know, like you.

7:39And let me ask you because times are uncertain. They're always uncertain, but they're more uncertain now than they have been. And people might say, well, yeah, but this is not the time to be making a move because I'm passionate about it or because I have a sense of purpose. But we could say the same thing about you during COVID. Things were very tumultuous then, and you took this step. And you're not in your 20s. We'll just make that clear. So it's not like, well, I'm super young and I can afford to make mistakes. So where does someone find that confidence of saying, yes, I can make a career out of doing something that I love?

8:17Yeah, I think it's different. Like if somebody's listening to this and going, you know what, I'm not really happy where I'm at. Maybe I can find something else. I kind of got thrown into it because I'd lost my job going into COVID. And I was like, what are we going to do? And, you know, as a speaker and trainer, it's typically you're live in an audience, you know, three, 400 people. But I started this whole thing on Zoom. And so it's really refreshing. I was just giving a keynote this morning to a group of businesses. And my point was just, if there's one thing you can do this next week, just incorporate laughter into your culture, right?

8:54Obviously, HR improved and whatnot. But I had so many people come up to me afterwards and just going, you know what, we do need to laugh more. And I didn't feel like I could until you got up there and shared some funny stories, right? And so I think, you know, if people are, I don't know if the right word is stuck in your job. But if you're thinking of doing something, try doing it on the side, you know, do some research. When I started Work Happy, I reached out to two, they're now mentors. One gentleman, Bill Gertine, was a sales trainer that came and worked with us when I was working in hockey 20, 25 years ago.

9:30Reached out to him and I reached out to another Canadian speaker, humorist Michael Kerr. And both those guys gave me an hour and I still keep in contact with them. And I share my wins and losses with them as well too. So they've been mentors. I don't want anybody to quit their job and say, well, I'm going to go do this because Greg was successful. It takes a lot of hard work. It takes a lot of learning, a lot of late nights, a lot of tears. But if you're not happy where you're at, try and figure out what does make you happy, what drives your purpose, whether that's a job. And if you do have a family and you need to support them and the job is doing that, continue with your job, but try and find other things on the side, whether it's a group of friends that goes, I don't know, camping once a month or something else, because you can still be happy in your life and that will tend to bleed into your work life.

10:25We'll be right back with more of Live Happy Now. If you've ever wished your brain had a switch you could flip to be more positive, we've got good news for you. It kind of does. Neuroscience tells us that you can actually train your brain to look for the good. And once you start practicing, it gets easier, faster, and a whole lot more fun. That's exactly why every Tuesday in our Live Happy Weekly Newsletter, we give you a quick little workout for your optimism muscles, the look for the good word search. It's a tiny puzzle with a big purpose. Every week, you hunt for words that spark gratitude, joy, resilience, all the good stuff your brain loves to build on.

11:05It takes just a couple of minutes feels like a win and gives your brain a gentle nudge toward noticing what's going right. Think of it as a microdose of positivity disguised as a game. So if you want to get better at seeing the bright spots even on messy days, subscribe to our Live Happy weekly newsletter by visiting us at livehappy.com and play along with our look for the good word search. Your brain will thank you.

11:33And now let's hear more from Greg Kettner. So if you're not feeling purpose at work and they don't feel like they can make that big job change, big career change, then is it a matter of finding purpose with something aligned with work or finding another sense of purpose that has nothing to do with work? Or what's a great way to do it? Because just having a sense of purpose that fulfills you on one level will spill over into every area of your life. Yeah, no, I don't know. It's a tough one. I think it's different for different people. But yeah, if you can align yourself. And sometimes, you know, before I got into all this, I would never go to a counselor because I'm a man and I'm good.

12:17I got it. Right. But I remember my brother's a psychologist. Now he teaches psychology at a university. But we were having a call one night. He goes, what's it going to harm to go talk to a guy? Just talk about what you want to do with your life. And coming out of college, I was at Nike and I was really disfranchised. And so I talked to him. I'm like, well, OK. So I went to this guy and he gave me a couple of tests, the Myers-Briggs and stuff. And we had a conversation. And he said, what do you want to do? And I said, I just want to go to work where I help people be happier. I mean, this was, you know, when I was 22.

12:49And he said, well, what do you like to do in life? And I said, well, I love hockey. And he didn't know that I had no talent or skill at hockey. but he said well why don't you go sell hockey we have a hockey team in this town and he goes okay you enjoy hockey and now you're selling it and that worked so you know dumb luck and trying different things but he was going to a therapist a career therapist and it was very beneficial and then I think you know when I met Becky and fell in love and then got married and had a stepdaughter that kind of really to me it was more purposeful because whatever I did I wasn't so focused on the work it was on this is what I'm doing to support my family you know to pay the mortgage and do all this and I just kind of gravitated to what I do and if I did it again or if you know people are thinking about becoming a speaker do it on the side don't go full stop and then try and jump on the bad way you can do it both ways but it's always nice to have that paycheck still coming in.

13:56Oh, you're building your craft and building your connections. Yeah, because I've been freelance writing for a lot of years. We won't even mention how many years. And I remember when I was leaving my job, I was with a national music magazine and I was the editor. And my mentor, he was very disappointed that I was leaving the industry because he's like, I always imagined you'd be like in this office in New York working for this magazine. And I'm like, I could think of nothing worse. and sitting in an office all day for the rest of my life. And that's what I had done is built things up on the side and found out like, yes, I really like this so much more than I like working on one thing every day, day after day.

14:37And you're right. That's a great way to discover what is it that I really, what punches my buttons, what really lights me up and what is it that I want to do going forward. As you're interacting with people and as you're dealing with companies, what do you see as a major, I guess, obstacle for people doing the things that they really want to do, pursuing their passion? You know, I think it's just not making it a priority. And I remember the corporate world and I, my to-do list is way too long as well. But, you know, when we're spending more than eight hours a day at work and some of us are spending more than eight hours a day zoom scrolling.

15:18We just don't take that time and you have to work at it. I'm starting to write a book called Stop Chasing Happiness and it's taking that effort and going, you're okay. I'm in a job, I'm getting paid, but I'm not necessarily happy. Maybe I'm a five out of 10. I want to be an eight or nine out of 10. How do I get there? You have to work on it. Do some research. There's a ton of classes you can take online, whether it's about happiness or burnout or whatnot. Listen to motivational speakers. I'm right now a huge fan of Simon Sinek. Always have been, probably always will be. But when we want to get something, it's just like in a job.

15:54I want to get a promotion. Well, what are you going to do for that promotion? Are you just going to hope that it's going to happen? Are you going to do the extra work? Are you going to go the extra mile? Are you going to take the extra class? So I think if you are happy where you're at and you want to make a move, start planning today, right? the best time to grow a tree for shade is today, not 20 years from now. There you go. So, you know, one thing that's, it's pretty new, but it has really gained traction. It's also gotten a lot of flack and that's the idea of a purpose-driven career. Gen Z is really huge on that.

16:27They want to do things that matter. And I know other generations have perhaps beaten them up about that because they think it's silly and Hey, we're supposed to, it's work. It's not fun. It's not supposed to be purposeful. But what's your take on that? And why should we be paying attention to this newfound need to have a purpose-driven career? Well, I think if you are following your purpose, you're just naturally happier, right? And science has broken it down. Happiness is in our DNA and purpose. So 50 % of us are born positive. 50 % of us are born with negative kind of outlook on life. But 20 % of the rest of the pie is the people you hang out with, the things that you do.

17:12And then the last 30 % is your choice to be happy, right? I can wake up and going, oh, it's raining. This sucks. I can wake up and going, you know what? I don't have to break the leaves today. I'm lucky you got that, right? So it's that kind of thing. And having purpose and meaning in your life not only makes you happier and healthier mentally, but when you have purpose and you find people who want to be a part of the team and feel like they're needed, they're more productive. They're more creative. They work longer hours. and it's just amazing when we can align our purpose and once management understands the benefits of happiness and purposeful employees it's amazing there's a study out that the newer generation coming up would rather you know get a pat on the back feel like their voice is heard their boss know their name or that their dog is sick than a ten thousand dollar raise So we are, you are right, we're leaning more towards purpose and how we can give back versus, well, I got to make X amount of dollars so I can live the life that I want and the house that I can show off, but I'm not happy.

18:23I'd rather have purpose and be happy. Yeah. It's like this, like with Generation Z, they're not content to just trade hours for dollars. They really want to get something out of it. And as you look down the road, how can that change the workplace as we know it? if people start taking purpose and passion and making that a priority within the workplace? Revenue is going to go up eventually because when we put people first and give them the tools that they need to be successful and put them in the right job, right? I mean, you may be in accounting and you hate numbers. Maybe you're better off for sales, right?

19:01Because you enjoy people. So finding people's purpose, not only is the person that you employ going to have a better life in and out of work, but the company is going to have better revenue and the world is going to be at a better place. Because I think every company, every sane company wants people to be happy, wants them to be purposeful and wants to give them meaning. But we are so focused on revenue and shareholders that we forget that we are humans. You know, and now AI is coming into play and people are like, oh, I'm going to lose my job. And maybe, but maybe not. But I mean, the printing press, and we're still printing paper, right?

19:42So it is going to change. But there's something about AI. It can't give you a hug. It can't relate to you. It can't be empathetic. And back to the question earlier, it all comes down to connection. And I think if we get more away from our screens and having one-on-one conversations and helping each other find our purpose, we're going to be farther ahead, both financially and ethically and as humans. I love it. That's a great way to wrap this up, Greg. I appreciate you, as always, sitting down with me, sharing your insights. We're going to, of course, tell the listeners how they can find you, get more of you.

20:21And I just thank you for bringing purpose to everything that you do and coming and talking about it. Well, you're welcome, Paul. I'm so glad that we connected. looking forward to connecting hopefully soon in real life. But the work that you do with Live Happy, it's such a great dovetail for the work happy because if we're not happy at work, chances are we're not going to be happy at home and vice versa. So thank you for all you do and I appreciate you. Thank you so much.

20:52That was Greg Kettner talking with me about the importance of finding a job that provides you with purpose. If you'd like to learn more about Greg or follow him on social media. Just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all new episode. And until then, this is Paula Phelps reminding you to make every day a happy one.