Healing Mother Daughter Tensions During the Holidays With Leslie and Lindsey Glass

0:03Thank you for joining us for episode 547 of Live Happy Now. With the holidays approaching, it's time for us to think of gathering with family. And not everyone is excited about that. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and this week I'm joined by the best-selling mother and daughter duel of Leslie and Lindsey Glass, who are here to talk about how we can make those family gatherings a little more harmonious. In their latest release, the Mother-Daughter Relationship Makeover Workbook for Lasting Change, they walk readers through the exercises that can help heal that often tricky relationship. This week, they're here to talk about some of those principles and practices and tell us how to make them work for us this holiday season.

0:44Let's have a listen. Lindsay and Leslie, thank you so much for coming back on Live Happy Now. Thank you so much. It's our pleasure. We're so happy to see you again, Paula. Oh, well, since people are not going to see your faces, I want each of you to introduce yourself. I am Leslie, the mom. And I am Lindsay. I am the daughter. Terrific. And we've talked before. This is a huge topic, mother-daughter conflict. It's such a universal thing. And it's a great time to talk about it because the holidays, even though it's a fabulous time of year, but it can bring up a lot of unresolved conflict. So here on Live Happy, we're going to be talking about a lot of different holiday topics over the next few weeks.

1:27But we really wanted to focus today on that mother-daughter relationship. And my first big question for you is why do the holidays just amplify the tensions within that relationship? Well, I just think that there's so many holiday triggers that come up during this particular time period that we're not always thinking about. So think about the control issues that mothers and daughters kind of have naturally, food, money, gifts, time. When you go into something like a Thanksgiving, this is all amplified. Whose house? Who's cooking? Are people going to talk about your parenting style? Are they going to ask about your life choices?

2:12Everything I think that makes us most vulnerable. And, you know, we'll always throw this in from our family point of view, the sobriety issue. If one person's sober and the other one isn't, or somebody wants somebody to get sober, we have these expectations going into holidays. They're going to be special. My family's going to love me. And when mothers and daughters are in a toxic place, it can get really ugly. I want to add the question of the memories that you have of how your mother treated you when you were a child. So what was going on when you all those memories that you bring to your Christmas and your Thanksgiving now, you may have a lot of bad memories and you may come into these new events with a lot of anxiety about what happened and not letting go and thinking of the past and not what's going on in the present.

3:06That is a great point to bring up. And that can be especially true in families where addiction has been an issue. I think this is one of the trickiest things. In order to get through these bad memories and these bad feelings, you have to do a little bit of self-help work and a little bit of self-improvement. I don't think they go away on their own. This is why we do the work that we do, because we really want to take people through the process of how to deal with those memories. So one of the things I'd say is a quick tip going into the holidays and to help people really have compassion, to really remember that you have no idea what your mom was going through at those times.

3:48She might've been under incredible stress for a multitude of different reasons that you don't know about. So try to know that she was doing the best that she can. There's a difference between real toxic and just people who've had problems, normal family difficulties, and that's normal. And I think you have to look at what somebody's intentions are. So I think if there are really bad memories that are toxic, that could need some professional help to process. If they're just kind of the normal dysfunctional family stuff, we have to remember that everybody's doing the best that they can, sometimes under difficult circumstances.

4:28What would you ask? I would like to go back to the memories. I would go back to getting stuck in memories that may not have been reality. So your brain, your brain as a child may be very, very sensitive about certain things that your mom or other people in your family have put upon you and you haven't grown out of those thoughts. So you're stuck with feelings that you had when you were 10 or you were 12. And maybe the reality that was happening at that time, your memory may not be accurate. Can I add one thing to that? Please do, yes. So when we were writing the book, it was the first time I ever considered what it was really like for my mom to be a young mom in the 70s with no help, with no family to support, with a difficult husband.

5:19So it really made me feel completely different about my childhood when I understood what her circumstances were. And it took me until adulthood to think about it. So that's what she's really getting at. And I love that approach because instead of us just saying, well, my mom was awful, you don't understand, and it's all her fault. You're really bringing it back to it becomes how we manage it. It becomes how we perceive it. And you're talking a lot about having forgiveness and empathy and grace and extending that to the person who gave birth to you or who raised you, whichever the case may be, or both.

5:54And so why is that important for us to make that shift in our mindset and realize that we have culpability here, we have responsibility, and we have accountability to move forward in this? Well, for me, one of the things that I learned was that while I was trying to help Lindsay for many years, I was trying to help her. My helping seemed like control. So it seemed like I was controlling her. And nobody wants to be told what to do. So I think when I began to understand that my helping was not appreciated, that was something that I had to internalize, that I had to change my behavior to make myself safe for my daughter.

6:35So how do we make each other safe? And I think that is the primary thing that mothers and daughters, particularly if they're in crisis or they're dealing with unhealed trauma, is to begin to find ways to be safe, is to make each other safe, to stop the conflict and find ways to appreciate, have compassion, but also be safe. But if I may, I would add this. We were talking about this the other day. When I went into my recovery process, I had people and I was bitching about my mom and she's this and she's the other and she's, and I had a sponsor who said to me, you could be talking about yourself right now.

7:19Wow. And I was in a couple of situations throughout my life in recovery where I really had people look at me and say, hey, you had a part in this. And if you don't understand what your part in this is, there's no path forward. When you can acknowledge, and when I was able to go back to my mom as a recovering person and say, hey, I was difficult. Like, I understand you were frightened and I was difficult and we were just like this. So that's why I think understanding your own part is so important. I love that. How do we start in advance recognizing these are potential triggers for this holiday season?

8:01Because I feel like we don't do that well enough. We made a list. Oh, lovely. All right. So I'll tell you what's on our list. This is good. Okay. So first of all, you have to prepare. And what preparing means is knowing what your triggers are and how to avoid them. So if you know that questions about certain areas are going to be very triggering or certain topics beforehand, you have to say, hey, we're not going to be talking about this at the dinner table this Thanksgiving. In the old days, we didn't talk about politics and religion at the dinner table. It was not polite. So we have a rule in our family because of what we've been through, we call it light and polite.

8:45I love this. That's all. So you set your boundaries before if needed, how much time you're going to spend, how long you'll stay, what the conversation boundaries are. You have to resist the urge to fall back into old roles. What else? What's really, really important? Well, you have to keep your expectations realistic. Say, if you know your mom is going to say, how's it going with that boyfriend? Has he proposed yet? But wait a minute, are you still with that guy that is such a jerk? I mean, does he have a job yet? That's a trigger, obviously. So you know that your mom is going to bring up subjects.

9:24Oh, my God, you've gained weight. You've lost weight. So you have to keep your expectations realistic. There are going to be moments where it's going to be tricky. And it may be very much up to you to be able to control your own emotions. So don't drink or use to cope. Don't drink. Don't drink. Well, let's don't over drink. I mean, cocktail if you need to, but don't be using these things to cope and get through and alter your mood. Also, don't jump up from the table and leave in a huff. Plan your exit. Plan your exit. So if your expectation is that everybody's going to be so lovey-dovey and so nice and so safe, and actually all those old things come up again, then know that you're going to have a reason to go.

10:15Don't leave in a huff and make everybody else uncomfortable. Say this is a boundary that says, okay, we've got into a place where I'm not comfortable, but you don't have to announce that to the table. You can say, oh, I really have a headache. I got to go. my boyfriend who you hate is waiting for me.

10:36So when you are creating your list, is it a good idea to discuss this with some of the people that will be there? Or is it a surprise for them? Like, especially the whole, I love not talking religion or politics. I know that is a huge problem for a lot of families right now. And you inevitably have that one relative that's like, so what do you think about? Right. Insert your topic here. Do you say something in advance to whomever is hosting or how can you? I would actually set out some things that say, here are some suggestions to make a great holiday season. Here are my suggestions. Don't bring up old grievances.

11:16Yeah, yeah. Here's what we're not going to talk about. Yeah, like this season, we're going to keep it light and polite. Preferred topics are dogs, pecan pie, what movies everybody's watching. And we talk about this with the mother-daughter and having difficult conversations. You absolutely want to prepare somebody. And you never want to embarrass somebody or make them feel stupid. And suddenly they're at the table and they're bringing something up and you're like, oh, no, no, no. I think it's better if you set some expectations for everybody and somebody brings it up, then you can jokingly say, oh, not on our list.

11:55Somebody didn't read the invitation. Somebody didn't read the family newsletter. What about the memo? And then it's not putting them so on the spot, but it's holding that boundary and saying, you know, we're going to keep it calm today. So why are we reluctant to draw those boundaries ahead of times? I hear people talk about what they dread and what they don't want to have happen, but they're telling me, which is not going to help because it's their family that they should be discussing this. Yet people seem reluctant to do that. Why is that? Well, I think people never want to start a fight. First of all, often if it's somebody you're scared to say something to, it's somebody that doesn't react well when you say things.

12:35So I think it's very, very hard to set boundaries. But I also think that comes from a lack of practice. I think the minute you start, you'd be shocked how well people respond to them, especially if you do it with love and compassion. What do you think? Well, I know Lindsay still likes to correct me. It's the worst. She does. I'm so bad. I'm so sorry. In an interview, she'll punch me and I think people can see it. So the question is, nobody likes to be told what to do. So the thing is, there are so many people who think they're fabulous. They think they're fabulous. They don't think they're toxic and they don't want to be told what they can and can't say.

13:20Would you say that? Yeah. I think people are just scared of the reaction. Yeah. Don't tell me what I can say. But again, we have something in recovery called sober reference. And what it means is, so like before you go to your first sober Thanksgiving, you're terrified. Like, how is this going to go? How are people going to treat me? What's going to happen when I'm handed a drink? And then you get through it and you're like, wait a minute. That was okay. That was fine. And I had a really good time and I didn't get in a fistfight with anybody. And maybe I'll do that again. And the next year it's fine.

13:51So I remember the first time I had to like be really honest with my mom about some things I was scared to tell her. And I told her and she was like, I'm so glad you told me the truth. And that set the stage in our recovery for me knowing she was a safe place to come and share how I was really feeling. So part of this is, I would say this, the onus is on the person who's bringing up the boundary. Do a little research, chat GPT it, look it up. What's the nicest way that I can say this to somebody? So don't point fingers. don't be like, you get drunk at every Thanksgiving. So we don't, it's sort of like, hey, we're only doing wine and beer this year.

14:37If you can limit it to a couple of drinks, we'd really appreciate it. We're really setting an example for the grandchildren. This is not about you. This is about the behavior we want to model this Thanksgiving and love you lots. There's a bottle of Patron in your stocking. Wink, wink, take it home. right? Well, I think it's always starting with, I love you lots. We're on the same team. We're in the same family. Yeah. We're in the same family. So if I ask you to, you asked him, but you said people don't want to hear about setting boundaries. But if you say, I love you lots and always start with, I love you.

15:16Here's why we're doing this. Here's why we're doing this. Or here's why I'm asking you this because it hurts my feelings or this hurts my feelings. And if you put it on what you're feeling, it's a way to deflect. It's a healthier way to communicate. Yeah. And what I love is you didn't say, I love you, but I love that. Tell us why that's important because that jumped out. I used to do that all the time. I used to say, you're so fabulous, Lindsay, but, and she'd always be waiting for that, but so they don't hear the first part of The butt makes it a backhanded compliment. Yeah, right. Is what I think.

15:53The butt is the trigger because it's like, well, this is good, but now I'm going to take it away. Yeah, right. I love that point. I just, the way that you said it just like exploded off the mic. You know, and I'm glad that you heard that because one of the things we're trying to do here is not blame or shame people. Yeah. If somebody's struggling with drinking or they have an anger management problem, we're not trying to shame them. We're just trying to say we love you the way you are, but if you could keep it together for the holidays, that would be better. Just keep it together. Keep it together.

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17:35and now let's hear more from leslie and lindsey glass now some years can be kind of uneventful for a family and then some years are tumultuous so if someone is having a year if someone in their family is in crisis this year what is a great way to approach it do you scale back how do you manage to make it the best case situation for everybody? Do you want to start? Do you want me to start? Well, it depends on what the crisis is. Yeah, I think that matters. I mean, I think if it's somebody who's having a financial crisis, what you want to do is keep everything simple and say that the gifts this year are$15 or less and have a less lavish display of food.

18:15Or homemade. Or homemade. Everybody bring a homemade thing. So if it's financial crisis, then you want to keep it simple and limit the amount of money you're spending. I've got some for grief and loss. Yeah, grief and loss. So when it is grief and loss, there are a few things you want to like. First of all, decide what feels secure. Maybe it's just one or two people over, not the full table. Really accept that this is going to be really hard and be okay with that. And if you need to watch movies for a couple hours, watch movies. If you need to go outside with the dogs and play with the dogs, kind of just say the rules are different this year.

18:56It doesn't have to look exactly like it did before. You know, we always suggest when you're talking about crisis that has to do with the loss of a family member, a family member being in crisis with addiction or mental health. Or a breakup. You know, yeah. Or even as simple as a breakup, whatever the strongest support system for that person is, whatever is going to create the least stress for that person. And if you are somebody who is incredibly triggered because you're alone this year, you know, and that is the case for a lot of people in this country, they actually struggle the most in the holidays because they're alone or they're not with the people they want to be.

19:37So in those cases, you have to create comfort wherever you can. If you have a support group available to you, that's really important. Don't expect yourself to be festive. If you can find one person that you feel safe with to do one activity that'll bring you pleasure, that's a success. I've always loved the Hallmark movies, the Christmas movies, because there's always loss in that. There's always loss in those movies. They always allow you to access your tears and your happiness because it shows that wherever you are, however you are, it's going to be okay. And I think that's one thing that people need to feel no matter what the crisis is, that it's going to be okay.

20:18I love that. And if you are having a difficult year, how do you decide if it's okay for you to just skip the festivities entirely? Because it's kind of looked down. I've done that certain times in my life where it's like, yeah, you know what? It's better if I just stayed here. You know what? When we were in family alienation, I did several holidays completely alone and I skipped it completely. Did you hate it? I was sad. I'm not going to lie. I was very sad, but I love food. I love movies. I love my dogs. So I would create days around those things. And even when I was in California completely by myself, I would go to, they have these fabulous grocery stores in California where you could get a pre-made meal that was as good as, I'm sure they have them everywhere, but you would go to these Bristol farms places and they like plate you a Thanksgiving dinner and it was as good as, you know, anything.

21:17So I would do that and I would have my private little thing. And, but, you know, I also had a support system. I was in recovery groups. I had people who were calling and checking on me and I did connect where I could, but yeah, I think it's an inside thing. If you do not feel equipped to celebrate a holiday, you do not have to, and you're the only one who can make that decision. We shouldn't be making these decisions for other people. And if somebody in the family says, I can't do it this year, I think you have to respect that. This is not the moment to push them. You can say, if you want to come for half an hour, I'm happy to bring you and take you home.

21:55But I'm going to give an example. So we have a neighbor and the neighbor has a daughter and she has extreme anxiety. She has extreme anxiety. She's living at home and she has never come to any of our celebrations, any of our parties. This year, Lindsay is here. And I think she's like 37, not married. She has a good job, but she lives at home, right? And this year, Lindsay is with us on Thanksgiving, and she has asked if she could come. So, you know, it is a sea change for this family to be able to come and have the daughter be able to come with her to the party. So this a real celebration for it.

22:35You know what? That brings up a really good point. Sometimes you can do a very small thing for people that will make them feel more comfortable. So I think, you know, we live in a beautiful community here in Florida, but it is families. You know, it's families, it's married people. So if you're the single lady on the block, I think it can feel incredibly daunting. And I think by having another, I mean, not technically single, but single lady, at unmarried lady table, Sadie Sadie, you know, I think that's probably very comforting. Yeah. We used to do a lot of stray Thanksgivings. Oh, we do that.

23:13I do that in recovery too. Yeah. From the AA group who didn't have somewhere to go could come over. Yeah. And how important is it once you make that decision, like this is what's best for me, it's to do my own thing for the holidays, it's to do my own thing with this group of people or whoever I choose to. once you've committed to that to not go back and beat yourself up. Because I know that can be a problem. People are like, they're second guessing and saying, oh, I should have done this, right? You know, they then heap this guilt upon themselves for not doing the right thing. I think you just stick to your pleasure principle.

23:46This is what I love to eat. This is the movie I love to watch. And really stay in your pleasure. Think about the pleasure. I'm having so much fun because these are the things that I like to do. And certainly when I was alone for many years, seven years I was alone. And if I decided not to share with my neighbors or anything like that, I would say these are the things that I love to do when I'm alone. I also, I want to give people a way to reframe it. If you're feeling guilty because you didn't do something or I could have, should have, would have, reframe that. I'm growing. I'm doing what I want to do.

24:22So yeah, I feel guilty because that's what I've been conditioned to feel all these years. But actually feeling guilty means that I'm standing up for myself. I'm doing what I want. And guess what? Growth is uncomfortable. So kind of give yourself a little bit of applause instead of doing that stinking thinking. I call it the rabbit hole of despair, which I live in a lot of times. And I really have to think, okay, I'm incredibly uncomfortable, but it's because I did what was right for me. And that feels bad to me sometimes. I really love that because it lets you focus on what you like versus the negative, what I should be doing, what I didn't do, all those things.

25:05That's absolutely fantastic. And you write that focusing on yourself is often the best solution for that family or mother-daughter drama. What are other tips that they can use to learn to focus on themselves, not feel like selfish about it, but just really give themselves the care that they need through this holiday season. So when we, Leslie talks a lot about having to rediscover what she loved when we separated. So how did you find the things that you loved again? I think when you feel very alone and you're isolated and you have been going through a bad period, you should look at yourself. Who did I used to be?

25:47Who am I? Who did I used to be? And how can I be that again? So what I used to be was, you know, very crafty. I loved plants. I love to cook. I love to make food for my neighbors and stuff like that. And in despair, you'd become paralyzed. You can't find those things. But if you're taking care of yourself, you're asking the question, what do I love? What did I used to be and would like to be again? And that's how I rediscovered myself. The reason you focus on yourself is because when you've been in this fighting habit and you're enmeshed, you're obsessed with somebody else and what they're doing, what they're doing.

26:27You almost have to like, you know, our break was very harsh, but she went and rebuilt her life and found the things that she loved. And I spent four years focused on self-help and self-improvement. So when we reconciled, I knew a lot more about myself. I was able to say, wow, I was really part of the problem. She had built a life. So she wasn't like, where's my daughter? What's she doing? Why isn't she five seconds from me? There was a lot of enmeshment there. So I came back. She had a big life. I had some accountability. And it allowed a path forward. Instead of us reconvening, her having spent four years being enraged with me, me replaying the same story of all the things she did wrong instead of figuring out what I had done wrong.