Keeping Your Cool in a Heated World With Dr. Jeremy Pollack

0:03Dr. Jeremy Pollack:Welcome to Live Happy Now, where we explore the science and stories that help us live with more joy, resilience, and connection. I'm your host, Paula Phelps, and each week we sit down with experts and everyday heroes who show us how happiness grows when we practice it. Today, I'm joined by peace builder and author Dr. Jeremy Pollack to talk about the neuroscience of conflict, why our brains react the way they do, how we can stay regulated in tense moments, and what it really takes to build peace in our everyday lives. Let's hear what he has to say. Jeremy, thank you so much for joining me on Live Happy Now.

0:38I'm happy to be here. Thanks, Paula.

0:40Dr. Jeremy Pollack:Your book, Wired for Peace, has such a timely message. I'm very excited to be able to talk about it today. And before we talk about the book and all the work that you're doing, one thing that's pivotal to your message is the backstory of why you started studying the science of peace. So can you tell us about that and how that led to a career in peace building? Yeah, you know, I think probably it started, I'm just thinking about a kernel of, you know, the idea of peace and conflict. I've been a martial artist for a long time. I started when I was a, you know, a kid doing martial arts and I had really great teachers and the teachers would always kind of, they instilled in me the idea that self-defense is sort of a last resort.

1:23And always our first resort should be communication and should be de-escalation and talking to people and building relationships and stuff like that. So I had some really good teachers and that was, I think, the kernel. And then at some point in my life, I had sort of a big sort of traumatic event where someone tried to kidnap me and I had to escape. And it was like kind of life or death situation. And I'd never been faced with something like that before. And I thought, But that really kind of changed the way I think about relationships, human relationships, where an individual was willing to take my life, and then I became willing to take his in order to escape.

1:58Luckily, I didn't have to do that. I was just able to get away. It really changed the way I sort of look at what is going on for people. Why do we treat each other this way? And I think that was the sort of kernel of it. And then it led me into a long, I don't know, stretch of introspection and psychotherapy and then getting interested in learning how to do kind of psychotherapeutic approaches, coaching, et cetera, and then eventually into helping some of the clients that I had as a coach do some conflict resolution with their spouses and with their colleagues and business partners. And then I started, I think, yay, this is an interesting area that I want to kind of focus on.

2:34And that's when I started going to grad school and really focusing on the psychology of conflict.

2:39Dr. Jeremy Pollack:And peace building, you're a peace builder. That's not really something that I've heard about before. How big a movement is that? Yeah, I mean, peace building as a general field is a longstanding field, probably, I don't know, maybe they've been using that. I'm not sure actually how they probably using the term for 30 or 40 years, maybe longer, but really, it's in the conflict resolution space. And really in sort of what I would call the conflict transformation space, more of an international relations, political relations, intercommunity, that sort of work. So it's really not been used. One of the things that we did was in my company was sort of innovative was we took a lot of the methodologies and sort of thinking and frameworks that were being used in international peacebuilding contexts, try to transform those for the Western workplace.

3:25So that's what we've been working on. So we've kind of been trying to, I don't know, getting that word out more into sort of into the non-conflict resolution industry specific folks, into the HR and to just normal folks. So.

3:38Dr. Jeremy Pollack:Outside of a workplace, you're, it's a typical consumer probably isn't going to stumble upon these principles? Yeah, well, because like, like most consumers, they understand what they think about conflict resolution. But I think when they think about that, maybe they think of like the legal context, you know, like, what is conflict resolution? It's more of a legal context. But the word peace building yet doesn't come across them a lot. But really, peace building is just this all encompassing, if there's no clear definition of like, what is peace building? Because it encompasses a whole lot of different techniques and methodologies to address a whole lot of different areas.

4:12And so I use the word peace building. It's very versatile. I use it for anything. I mean, in our normal lives, when we are literally building peace with people, like I have a conflict with my spouse or with my friend or a family member, and I need to figure out how to communicate better. That is a peace building process, even if it's a small one. So I think all of these can fall under the blanket term peace building.

4:35Dr. Jeremy Pollack:Absolutely. And one thing that's different about your book as opposed to like a relationship book or a psychology book is just the science that you use that really breaks down how our brains are reacting during conflict and how we resolve things. And your book tells us that we're wired for peace, but we live in a world filled with conflict. So can you explain that dichotomy? Yeah. Well, so I would say that maybe at the very baseline level, we're sort of wired for survival. And so what does survival mean? It doesn't necessarily have to mean defense. It really depends on cooperation. And we cooperate way more than we are in conflict, even though it doesn't seem like that, because we're paying attention to conflict a lot more than our cooperation.

5:22But you have moments of cooperation throughout your day, way more, I would make a suggestion, than you are in conflict. Now, Maybe certain people are not, but I think most people cooperate a lot more than they are in conflict. The neurobiology tells a very clear story. And without getting too much into sort of the science of it, we feel better physiologically, mentally, neurologically. We feel better. Different types of hormones are released in us. Different types of neurochemicals are released when we are cooperating and collaborating. When we are in tension with people, when we are in conflict, when we are escalated emotionally, another set of hormones and neurochemicals are released that really don't make us feel very good.

6:03And those are only meant to be temporary. They're meant to be a survival mechanism that comes up so that we can defend ourselves or survive in some way, and then go back to baseline and we're back at a state of peace. So if you look at what our natural state is, the neurobiology tells a story like our natural state is peace. That's what we want to be most of the time, and only moments of defense. But because we are so drawn to drama and narrative and conflict, especially when we're looking at social media and news and stuff like that, it really seems to us that there's way more conflict than maybe cooperation.

6:40But it's not actually true. Most of us are cooperating most of the time because most of us want to feel good most of the time rather than feel like we're in conflict with other people or with ourselves.

6:51Dr. Jeremy Pollack:So does the brain give the same reaction to conflict that we see on television or on social media that it does in our personal lives? Yeah, I mean, the brain is very interesting. So there's different things that happen in the brain, specifically around an acute stress response, which is meant to respond. It's a cascade of hormones, neurochemicals, and physiological behavioral responses that are meant to help us survive like a physical threat or a physical danger. Because we're social animals, we're very complex social animals, the same neural architecture gets activated when there is a potentially social threat.

7:30So if we are in a group of, let's say we're, you know, in our evolutionary ancestors, if we're in a group of 50 people or 100 people, we pretty much know everybody by name and by, you know, their reputations, etc. And we know that those people over there get in a fight about some certain issue, that's going to affect the way I maybe interact with them, because they're part of my group, and I know who to trust and who not to trust. And that's all important stuff. If we're in a group of 100 people. But our brains were not meant to see images of things happening in villages of thousands of people a thousand miles away.

8:03Because that stuff isn't really affecting our daily lives as much. But when we look at that, our brains are reacting in very much the same way. So our brains react in the same way when we have social threats as they do with the physical threats. We have very similar neural architecture. So we get into fight or flight if someone threatens my reputation or threatens to abandon me or reject me or something like that, just as much as if there's someone threatening me physically. And if I'm watching it on TV, my brain's acting in the same way. So you're, you're basically like a lot of times, this is a conversation I have a lot of times with people because there's this, there's this question like, well, I can't just turn off the news or social media.

8:42I can't just bury my head in the sand and not know what's going on in the world because that's irresponsible of me. And this is a whole other, you know, kind of conversation that we can have.

8:50Dr. Jeremy Pollack:That's our next episode, right? Yeah, yeah. So there's reasons for and against that or some other approach. But the bottom line is, how do you want to feel? How do you want to be? How do you want to show up for your family? How do you want to show up for your co-workers, your community? What's the best version of you? And how do we get that best version of you? Because that's the way to build peace in your life. It's not paying attention to stuff that gets you escalated and then angry and then hypervigilant and then angry at everybody you see. That's not the best version of you. The best version of you is to be in a state of connection and cooperation and collaboration and communication.

9:29That's the best version. I would think that's the best version of you. How do we get there? We've got to have your nervous system pretty much regulated and get you to state where you're curious and you're open to other ideas and you're open to people and communicating and that kind of thing. So, you know, you got to decide, like, what's putting me in a dysregulated state versus a regulated? Is it regulated from, is it dysregulating for me to watch the news and watch social media? Do I get angry and rageful and then I show up like that in my life? That's not peace building. Like you showing up in a non-peaceful state, it's not peace building.

10:00Peace starts with each of us and we have to be at a peaceful state to get there.

10:04Dr. Jeremy Pollack:And how does understanding what it's doing to our brain help us understand the tension that we're seeing in the world? right now and process it? I think there's a lot of things that it helps with. I think one of the things that helps with maybe is compassion. If I know what is happening in our brains, in a human brain, when it's going into defense mode, behaviors that are manifesting from an internal state of defense, from threat detection, those behaviors a lot of times are unconscious, or they're not super under control. Or, you know, people act in certain ways, and then later on, they think, my gosh, why did I say that?

10:41Or why did I do that? And so I think if you recognize this, that people are acting in certain ways, because they are feeling deeply threatened, and they don't have a lot of conscious control over that behavior, then we can have a little more compassion. We can also start to take steps to like, okay, how do I help this person feel less threatened? If they're in an escalated state, because their behavior is, it's not functional, and it's making me a little bit heated. How do I help them feel less threatened? And then the same thing for me. Like if I'm feeling escalated, emotionally charged, I'm my brain is telling me that there's a threat.

11:15And that's, that's why I'm feeling this way. And so I'm going to behave in certain ways. How do I get my own brain to recognize, wait a minute, I'm actually safe, assuming that you're not being physically attacked. But if you're not being physically attacked right now, you are actually safe. All of the ideas about what you are not safe about, or what you're concerned about, they're all future projections of things that might happen. And so getting really present and recognizing I'm safe right here, right now, how do I teach my brain that so I can relax, calm down, and then get strategic? And then I can actually think clearly and creatively and tactically if I need to take certain measures or whatever.

11:50It's way easier to think and make decisions strategically in a calm state or at least an engaged state than it is in a defense state. Yeah.

11:59Dr. Jeremy Pollack:So let's talk about what happens in our brains during an escalated argument. And then can you tell us how each of us can reduce that threat response? If you're looking for a little more joy in your week, we've got two ways to help you boost your mood, right when you need it the most. Our Sunday Sillies newsletter has become a huge hit with listeners, bringing you a weekly pep talk, a couple of lighthearted happiness hacks, and a few ideas to help you wrap up the weekend with a smile. And starting in September, we're giving your Monday mornings a lift, too. Our new Wake Up Happy text campaign will send you a tiny dose of encouragement to start your week feeling grounded, supported, and ready for whatever comes next.

12:38So you can end your Sunday with a smile and begin your Monday with a little spark of joy.

12:44Dr. Jeremy Pollack:Watch for more details when you sign up for Sunday Sillies under the Connect tab at LiveHappy.com. And let a happier week find you. Yeah, well, okay, so there's a lot of things happening in the brain. If we want to focus on one area, which is talked about a lot in escalated states, it's our amygdala region, which we have two halves of the amygdala in our brains, which is basically our people call the threat detection mechanism or a threat detection region. But really, it's a valence checker. Like, so it basically says, is this good or bad? If it's good, cool. Pass it along to these areas. If it's bad, flag it.

13:22Become hypervigilant. So now we're going to get even more judgmental about things, whether they're good or bad, and then pass them on to these level, these things. And when it goes through the hippocampus, which gives it sort of contextual memory and certain predictive processes start to happen in the brain and they say, well, if this happened last time and it made us feel threatened, well, now it's going to make us feel threatened again. So we need to do X, Y, Z in the brain and the nervous system. So what happens during this whole process? What happens when adrenaline and cortisol and neuro, norepinephrine and ephrine, ephrine are getting released by the brain or by the body and hormones or neurochemicals are there's all kinds of interesting things happening in our bodies and in our brains.

14:01One of those, for example, is cognitive narrowing. We start to see almost like people say tunnel vision. We stop seeing possibilities. We stop seeing other perspectives. We narrow down, hunker down into our own sort of self-preservation mode and only can see a certain path. So we really shut down our ability to stay open-minded and curious. We really shut down our creative capacities. We really shut down our connection and collaboration capacities. And our communication also shuts down. We get narrowed to this very sort of limited repertoire of behaviors, which are fight and argue, flight or withdraw and escape, or freeze, which is kind of shut down, numb, dissociate.

14:43Those are the limits of what we're able to do in that state. And so it really doesn't put us in a good state for creative problem solving or conflict resolution.

14:52Dr. Jeremy Pollack:And that also tells a great story of why political arguments go the way they do, religious discussions, things like that. You can see exactly that behavior that is reacting. So how does someone learn how to deescalate? Especially because let's say you're at a family gathering, you disagree politically, and you've learned these techniques. Well, let's say the person you're talking to probably has not. So how do you deescalate your own behavior as well as someone else's? So if we're talking about like deescalation, so if we're talking about like self deescalation or self-regulation, there's different sort of physiological and cognitive techniques that we can do to relax ourselves.

15:33But without getting too into the details, I would encourage people to go and like look at self-regulation techniques. Very simple stuff even like where you just breathing, long exhale and relaxing your body. Like that's a simple one. Go on to YouTube, go on to Google AI, et cetera, say, hey, what are some self-regulation techniques? You're going to find a bunch of them and be able to practice and you find which ones work for you. The bottom line, if I can categorize this very broadly is remember that if we're in an escalated state or if we're emotionally charged or if we feel defensive, all of it is because our brains are telling us there's a threat.

16:06And so the question then becomes like if we're going to self-regulate or de-escalate someone else, it's always about how do I help myself or this other person feel like there's less a threat to them? How do I help them feel more safe or how do I help myself feel more safe? That might take a lot of different things, but I think it's really important just to, first of all, feel motivated enough. I always talk, you know, peace building always starts with motivation. You have to be motivated to want to change the dynamic. So if you get into a political art, someone says something political, your family member or friend or something, and your immediate thing is like, I want to defend and challenge them and that kind of thing.

16:43And I like it. I want to do that. You don't have the motivation to change the dynamic. But if you're feeling like, man, I just like I get really emotionally charged around that person or those ideas. I don't really want to feel that way. I don't want to look at that person that way. I don't want to communicate with that person and get into an argument about that. It's just it's not something I want to do, even though I tend to do it. hopefully then you're motivated to start taking different steps. And so I would first do some analysis of like, well, what is it that you feel threatened by with regard to those ideas?

17:10If ideas or communication, the threats again, are all imagined in the future. What does that idea mean for me or the people I care about tomorrow or next week or next year? What does it mean? What's going to happen? That's all future projection stuff. And when you're living in the future, you're living in imagination. And I'm not saying that there aren't potential threats down the road that we shouldn't plan for, but you can plan for those way better, way more strategically and way more calmly if you're not in a threat perception state, if you can get yourself out of them. So like you could say, these are just ideas.

17:46They're not a threat at this moment. And I'm concerned about some of those things in the future, but I'm going to stay calm and be strategic about those to think about like how I might mitigate the risks to me or the people I care about in the future. That does not mean I need to argue right here in this present. Part of me being strategic about how to mitigate threats in the future has nothing to do with me arguing with someone in the present, especially if there's someone I care about. I don't think that that's a worthwhile behavior, so I'm just going to choose not to do it. And I'm going to make a term around it.

18:14I'm going to make a commitment to myself that I'm not going to argue about that. And I might even take certain ideas off the table. My parents have particular political view. They have very close friends they've known for 30 years that have a completely different. And they have chosen to not ever speak about politics with each other, because it doesn't matter. They have way other a lot of other things in common that they and then they enjoy each other's company, if they just don't focus on that. And a lot of times, unfortunately, we get stuck in like, well, if they have that idea, then they must be this kind of person, and I can't I can't interact with that kind of person.

18:46And that's a whole other conversation, but I would challenge I would challenge that because there's lots of things that we can find common ground with relatable values, things that we share in interests. We can focus on that stuff if we want this relationship, if we care about this relationship.

19:01Dr. Jeremy Pollack:We'll be right back with more of Live Happy Now.