The Art of Adult Friendships With Anna Runkle

0:03Anna Runkle:Thank you for joining us for episode 557 of Live Happy Now. As we continue to observe International Friendship Month, we here at Live Happy are also celebrating Make a Friend Day on February 11th. And this week's guest is here to tell us how to do it. I'm your host Paula Felps and today I'm joined by author and therapist Anna Runkle whose book Connectability is all about how to build and sustain deep and genuine friendships. But to do that, we have to find the right people. And in this episode, Anna explains how we can do that and offers tips and practices to make it easier and more effective.

0:40Anna Runkle:Let's have a listen. Anna, thank you for coming back on Live Happy Now. Thank you, Paula. I'm happy to be here. February is Friendship Month. And of course, you are a friendship expert. So it's a great time to talk to you. And I specifically wanted to talk to you because in your book, Connectability, you devote an entire chapter to finding your people. And to me, that says that finding friends as adults is not as simple as we think it should be. So let's start with there. Why is it difficult to find our people after adulthood? Well, I think it's hard for some people more than others.

1:17Paula Felps:That can have a lot to do with what your background is and whether you're introverted and whether you've had trauma. But there's something about the last, you know, ever since the pandemic that a lot of people are struggling with this stuff. And so the advice is the same. Whatever the problem was, there's a process for coming back out of your shell and becoming able to connect with people better and finding your people. That is a lost art.

1:44Anna Runkle:And why is it so important? Why do you need it? Because it's not just finding people. You want to find your people. You've got to find the right people where you really mesh. Explain to us why that is so important.

1:56Paula Felps:Well, not everybody is going to get you in your life, but you need one, two, three people who get you in your life. And having people who get you and who witness to who you really are and who you can go to and say, well, I had a really hard day. And they understand what your pattern of hard days is. They know what's hard for you. They know what your recent victories are. They know what you're trying to do. It is one of the most wonderful things you can have in life to try to navigate changing your life all by yourself is hard. And there's something about when we come together with other people, there's things that no one can figure out by themselves, but together we can.

2:34Paula Felps:We can usually solve problems and figure things out. And so everybody complains about, you know, the loss of community, but on a very granular level, a lot of us are not feeling close to the people we have in our lives. Part of that is because they're not your people.

2:49Anna Runkle:That's interesting. Can you expand on that a little bit more? Because I know even in my own life, sometimes I've felt inadequate because I'm surrounded by people, but I didn't feel like they were my people. And it's like I blame myself, or then I'm like, am I just too judgy? Or, you know, so I'd love for you to dig into that a little bit more.

3:09Paula Felps:Well, it gets in your face during a crisis sometimes. And that's what happened to me. I had a lot of friends. I was a newly divorced mom. So I was, you know, I was friends were important in my life. I had a medical mistake happen that needed a lot of surgery. And I found out that though I had a lot of friends, I had almost nobody who would show up and help me with the situation when I couldn't walk for a period of time, I couldn't get my kids to school. And that was a crisis in my life. I'm like, what happened there? What did I do wrong? And what I learned is, you know, I'd had a rough childhood.

3:45Paula Felps:Divorce is rough. You know, some of these things that are hard in our lives, we're putting on a happy face. We don't want to be a burden on everybody. Maybe we have spent time like being very upset and leaning on our friends a lot. And maybe they pulled away a little bit and we lost those people because it was too much. That's the hardest thing. When you need the friends the most, it's the easiest to push them away. You're sensitive. You might lash out. You might be too much. You know, some of us are walking around with shame. I'm too much. I'm too much. And some of us are like, I just never can be too much again.

4:16Paula Felps:I'm just going to pretend everything's fine. But either way, you end up with this holding people at arm's length. It's this thing I call covert avoidance. Most people don't even know they're doing it. You have friends, you're doing things, but you're never really letting people in. And you can't. That's not necessarily wise to be close to people. Because when you really look at it, a lot of these friends were people you sort of held on to because they were there, but you were changing and becoming a new person. Maybe they weren't. Maybe you were growing apart, but you're trying to hold on because you want somebody in your life.

4:49Paula Felps:And then you have this awakening. I'm like, we don't even get each other anymore. So the coming out of it, it's a process. There's a lot of sensitivity there. It takes, you go slowly. You practice very practical things to get out there about having a coffee, saying hello. You know, my book lists a whole, you know, scads of things for points. It's like a game, right? And it's a game. You kind of have to just keep putting yourself out there, not too much at once. It could kind of put you back in your shell a little at a time and then learning some of the things that will help support you do that, which is you have good boundaries.

5:22Paula Felps:You don't try to make them into your best friend on the first day. You do get out once you see red flags. And you keep trying. But if people are going to understand who you are, you have to be yourself. And a lot of us, that's the second thing that's been kind of hard. I think in recent years, people report having a lot more anxiety about expressing their feelings and opinions about things. There's, you know, people can be very hard on you on social media and in real life, you could even lose your job. So a lot of us are walking around really reserved about that stuff. But there needs to be a time when you say, you know what my opinion is about this thing, blah, blah, blah, blah.

5:58Paula Felps:And your people are the people who feel that way too. And you can talk together about it safely. That's a nice thing. Your people don't always have to agree with you about everything. You need to be safe with them. Your people are the people it's okay to be you. For some of us, just being ourselves can be a little rough. Sometimes there's rough edges. I don't know about you, if you can remember when lockdown was ending, being a little salty, you know, just like, no, I don't like what you're saying.

6:25Anna Runkle:I remember that. I had a friend who confided in me that he didn't want to go out because he didn't remember how to be around people. As much as he missed them, he now found them really annoying.

6:37Paula Felps:Yeah, there was a bit of that. It was a re-entry process we had to go through. Yeah, it's a re-entry process and it's worth it because not only do you need people if you have a medical problem like I did, you need people to actually fulfill who you really are. A lot of what got us shy about hanging out with people were social injuries. And so we do social healing to get back out there, learning how to repair, how to, if we, if we lashed out at somebody, we can learn to apologize. If somebody lashed out at us, we can ask a question. Is this, you know, could I understand what that was about? That takes guts and it takes structure.

7:14Paula Felps:And I think there's a lot more information online about how to get rid of people from your life than how to bring them back in.

7:19Anna Runkle:Oh, I'm glad you brought that up because we do live in this new realm where it's like, I'm going to just cut you off. And how did that become a thing? And why is that dangerous? Yes, there are times where it's like, yeah, I don't need you in my life. But there's also times where you hit rough patches and you're meant to work through those, not just jettison them.

7:40Paula Felps:some island. I think that sometimes it is necessary. I totally want to validate that, but it's not always necessary. And a better solution, a medium solution is to take a little break very gently without criticism of the other person necessarily, or just to say that was a rough argument. Can I take a little time, but I do want to talk to you about this. And then you come back. I think there's a lot of validation out there for like, no, you just get rid of them, girl. You don't talk to them again because they didn't validate you. But you know, I'm a 62 year old woman. And I'll just tell you, you don't get validation from everybody.

8:11Paula Felps:Eventually it's got to come from here. And you're one, two or three people who get you, who can be like, no, I know you to be a good person, Anna. You know, you can, I know they said that about you. Don't you worry. What I used to get in my early days, one form of this was if a relationship fell apart and somebody broke up with me, I had a set of friends who would always say, oh, it's them. It's never you. It's because you're too intelligent or beautiful for them. But it might've been because my temper was quick or because I made them feel like I wasn't a safe person. There are things like that.

8:43Paula Felps:Like if you can start to look at the real stuff that's getting in your way with people, then you can grow. So the friends who you can be yourself with, and it's safe for you to hear their feedback sometimes about, is it me or is it them? There's just way too much. It's always them. It's always them out there. I worry about people. I have a cartoon of myself dressed up in old makeup going, I worry about you kids. I do though. I'll worry about all this. Like if anybody, if there's anything seen as like needs to improve about me, I, this is a narcissist talking. I don't agree. I think people take that too far.

9:18Paula Felps:Sometimes there are such things as narcissists, but there's also a such thing as people who can't look at themselves. And we never want to be that person. We want to be able to look at ourselves and see what can I do. People are lovely and everybody's flawed. And I'd say in the arc of my life, first healing from my trauma, and then just growing up becoming more mature, I'm just like, everybody's flawed. I'm so much more just like, what are you going to do about that? Like, glad to have you in my life. Let's have a sandwich. Exactly. I love that.

9:47Anna Runkle:And, you know, some of those relationships, some of those friendships do end with the big fight or the, you know, I'm not speaking to you anymore. But the ones that I find more painful are the ones that disappear. And they kind of drift out of your circle and you reach out and they're busy or whatever, and you never really have an answer why there was never an event. And for me, those are the most hurtful and, and puzzled.

10:10Paula Felps:That's where you find out your worst fears because your mind races. And it's like, it's because I'm too fat. It's because I have too many dogs. Yeah. That's what it must be. What could it be? And that's, and yeah, I think we've all had that and it is hard and it's not cool to do that to people. But I think if we do need to leave somebody's life and they would like to know what it is, it is kind to say something. But my guideline is say 10%. Don't just tear them a new one. You know, I'm like, okay, where do I begin? It was this, it was that. So if somebody's like, alphabetically or chronologically.

10:40Paula Felps:Yeah. Why have we drifted apart? I'll be, I guess I felt like you were very critical of me when I was deciding to make a change in my life. And that was hard for me. You could say that, but even though I could say a hundred things and you said this and you did that and like, where were you when I was there for you? I could go on and on. That's not good. Good friendship skills can show up after the friendship too. Yeah. Yeah. I

11:00Anna Runkle:love that. I love that point. We'll be right back with more of Live Happy Now.

11:11Anna Runkle:And now let's hear more from Anna's uncle.

11:14Paula Felps:You know, one of the exercises that you recommend,

11:17Anna Runkle:and I absolutely love this because I haven't seen it done before. And that was to make a list of the people you want in your life. So talk about how we do that, and why it's important. Because I know I write down my goals, I write down this manifestation, what do I want for this? I never thought of that in terms of people.

11:33Paula Felps:Yeah. Well, I first learned this in terms of writing down what I wanted in a romantic partner, because I kept getting people I did not want and, but had pursued really hard. And I didn't understand why that was happening. And for somebody like me, I think maybe I missed out on a lot of development that I would have had from parents who were more present, where they would have been helping me go, hey, you don't want to date people like this. Look for this sign. Like I was kind of like feral. I was figuring it out for myself. So if there was attraction, I'd give it a go. And then I'd be very attached and lose years of my life.

12:05Paula Felps:But I then, so when that started working beautifully for me to go, no, let me be very clear. What are my needs? You know, what are the criteria for somebody? It has to be this. It can't be this. I'm sort of flexible, but this is desirable. I did that about romantic relationships. But I realized it needs to happen about friends, too. If you're just running around with friends you just don't really like and you're always privately complaining about, your picker is broken. And it's time to get more discerning about what you're looking for. And it takes a little effort. So one of the things that I used to do in my trauma is I would be friends with people who were not nearly as ambitious as I was.

12:41Paula Felps:I was always doing something. I was a comedian. I was starting a new video production company. I was leading crappy childhood fairy. I was friends with people who would be like, I don't know why you do all that. It sounds really stressful. You should slow down. And I realized I need some friends who are like, you go, Anna. I do that kind of thing too. Let's get together on Zoom every month and talk about how you're doing it and how I'm doing it and teach each other. Wow, that's a supportive kind of friendship. They're not the friends for all things. I had friends when I married my husband 12 years ago and we were engaged.

13:11Paula Felps:I had friends who disapproved of him. And there's this pact we break sometimes with friends. when we were all just like heartbroken friends together. And then you meet somebody and you get happy or it could be anything. You get happy on any area of your life. You've broken the pact with people who rely on you to stay the same. And that's a sad thing too. They will start being critical or drifting away. And there's nothing to be done about it except to let them go. And then comes this period I call the canyon of loneliness. You've taken the leap. You've let these relationships leave. You're taking a leap of faith that something new will come.

13:45Paula Felps:But it's kind of true that nothing new can come when all your social time is taken up with these people who bring you down, who limit you, who put you down, who aren't very fun or aren't interested in things you like to talk about. And so you make room and then you begin to take positive actions towards it. So I like to go backpacking. For a long time, I've had nobody to go with. So now I'm having to put it out there. Who wants to go backpacking? I will lead the thing. I'll get us all the equipment. I know how to do it. I want somebody about my physical ability and I'll take care of it, but I can't just wait for it to happen anymore.

14:18Paula Felps:It's not going to come into my life. So I take positive actions towards it.

14:22Anna Runkle:And that's so wonderful on many levels, because one, you're connecting with people who have that similar interest and two, you feel better because you are taking action because you are, you're getting some, some ownership in the whole process of who you're hanging out with. Yeah.

14:38Paula Felps:It's kind of magic how much energy comes into your life when you're just taking action. And even if that action doesn't lead to anything, the act of taking action sort of opens a window and this fresh air comes in and things begin to shift. I love that.

14:51Anna Runkle:And you have this exercise that I absolutely love, your gut check exercise. Yeah. Yeah. So explain that to us. What's that all about? And what can we learn from it?

15:02Paula Felps:Well, after everything we've been through, you know, life can be kind of hard sometimes. and especially after a hard spell, we can be very out of touch with what feels right to us. So you get together with somebody who you think might make a good friend and you have a miserable time or you're interviewing a new tax accountant or, you know, just things that you're connecting with people on to see if you want to go further and have some sort of relationship with. And you've taught yourself to do this thing I'll call crap fitting. You fit yourself to unacceptable people and situations because you got so used to it in the past.

15:35Paula Felps:It's probably just me. I should just put up with it. I won't have anybody else. I should just go along with this. And instead, you got to start reawakening your intuition and do a gut check. So after you go have this coffee, you just do a gut check. How do I feel right now? How do I feel right now? And it's okay if there's some feeling of, I hope that went well. This was good. You know, some mixed feelings. But if you just feel drained or overwhelmed, you got to listen to that. That's how you feel around the other person. So even if they did nothing wrong, that's how you feel around the other person.

16:07Paula Felps:Maybe you can change it or maybe not. So I've been in the unpleasant situation recently. Somebody I just thought was so cool and interesting. But every time we talk, it's like I have to go lie down. I didn't even explain it. I just feel utterly drained.